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N400QX
Topic Author
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 9:51 am

Operation Underway!

Fri Mar 29, 2002 12:31 pm

MSNBC reporting that Israeli tanks are moving into the West Bank and have surrounded Arafat's compound... it's about time!

"Targetted operation" underway.... more to follow.
 
BWIrwy4
Posts: 877
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RE: Operation Underway!

Fri Mar 29, 2002 12:47 pm

Let the Catch-22 circle continue turning.  Sad
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
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RE: Operation Underway!

Fri Mar 29, 2002 12:50 pm

Why Israel has not been turned loose already is beyond my comprehension.
 
bruno
Posts: 829
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RE: Operation Underway!

Fri Mar 29, 2002 1:10 pm

N400QX


Arafat will still be in the headlines 5 years from now. This is all showbiz and grandstanding by both sides.

Don't hold your breath Zach.
 
ILOVEA340
Posts: 2064
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RE: Operation Underway!

Fri Mar 29, 2002 1:40 pm

This is crazy what is happening. Considering the actions niether side has a valid claim towards anything IMO
 
N400QX
Topic Author
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 9:51 am

RE: Operation Underway!

Fri Mar 29, 2002 1:49 pm

Don't worry-- I'm not holding my breath. It is just good to see Israel responding to terrorism again.

Waiting now for Sharon to go on TV....
 
N400QX
Topic Author
Posts: 1981
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RE: Operation Underway!

Fri Mar 29, 2002 1:58 pm

Sharon will speak in 15 minutes at 12:15 AM... looks like there has been combat inside the Arafat compound between the troops.

There was just a double stabbing attack outside a Synagogue...
 
N400QX
Topic Author
Posts: 1981
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RE: Operation Underway!

Fri Mar 29, 2002 2:08 pm

Just to update ya...

Reuters just reported that Arafat has been declared an "enemy of the state"....
 
N400QX
Topic Author
Posts: 1981
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RE: Operation Underway!

Fri Mar 29, 2002 2:55 pm

"This is a declaration of war" -- Nabil Abu Rudeineh, Arafat spokesman  Insane
 
haveric
Posts: 1219
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RE: Operation Underway!

Fri Mar 29, 2002 3:09 pm

"This is a declaration of war" -- Nabil Abu Rudeineh, Arafat spokesman

-- actually, I'd think a bomb killing 20 people in celebrating a holday was a declaration of war....
 
N400QX
Topic Author
Posts: 1981
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RE: Operation Underway!

Fri Mar 29, 2002 3:23 pm

Yeah really!

Well hopefully we don't have any war for now... right now the terrorism just needs to stop and then things can be worked out in a civil manner.

Looks like Arafat should get cozy in his compound because he's going to be there for a while.
 
Skyway1
Posts: 977
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RE: Operation Underway!

Fri Mar 29, 2002 10:16 pm

Why don't they shoot a bomb five feet from Arafat's head??? Won't that get his attention?

Chris
 
777236ER
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RE: Operation Underway!

Fri Mar 29, 2002 10:19 pm

Wooo-eee! Let's kill dem sunsabitches!!

It's sickening to see you so delighted about war.
 
KROC
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RE: Operation Underway!

Fri Mar 29, 2002 10:46 pm

I understand the Palestinians plight, but this shit has got to end, and it should end with a full assault military mission launched by Israel.
 
go canada!
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RE: Operation Underway!

Fri Mar 29, 2002 10:52 pm

arafats is going to get killed which will be counter-productive because he will be made into a matyr which will increase the number of terrorist attacks and inflame the more liberal parts of the Palestinian authority.

the best thing israel can do is to capture him alive and exile him, indict him for war crimes and send him to the hague or try him in a third, neutral country.

killing him wont help and we are now on a bloddy road to the end, the palestinians have blown any chance of peace, israel withdrew two weeks ago and yet they still continued bombing, killing and maiming.

any chance of peace is long gone.if the palestinians launch these attacks while they have authority over their lands, what will it be like with full statehood?
 
777236ER
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RE: Operation Underway!

Fri Mar 29, 2002 11:00 pm

I don't mind a final, end-it-all assault (within limits), i'm just sicked at some people here who seem delighted about this. It is war, y'know? It's meant to be a last resort, and not something to be ecstatic about.
 
ctbarnes
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RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 12:46 am

"This is a declaration of war" -- Nabil Abu Rudeineh, Arafat spokesman

-- actually, I'd think a bomb killing 20 people in celebrating a holday was a declaration of war....


And that, in a nutshell, is the problem.

Both Israel and the Palistinians have legitimate grevances. The Israelis and the Palistinians are as bad as each other in this conflict, and both are equally to blame for this conflict's seemingly endless escalation. If Christ himself came down and try to mediate this dispute, he'd probably have quit in disgust by now. Both sides are so entrenched after decades of violence no one wants to compramise: and this is not going to end unless both sides do. But then, comprimise is not an option because both sides view compramise as tantamount to a sellout.

Lastly, I find the the glee with which some have welcomed this further escalation disgusting. It's not going to solve the problem. It is only going to make things worse.

Charles, SJ
 
kolobokman
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Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 5:32 am

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 2:35 am

I agree with 777236ER, some people here are sickening happy with something that will bring more and more casualties...
Another suicide bombing by a female...
 
heavymetal
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Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 2:59 am

Charles, I'd add that many on both sides find some kind of sick machoism in playing the eternal victim.

I'm not the biggest fan of Israel simply because I detest all things theocratic, and I believe Israel is a democracy ONLY untill the day arrives when non-Jews comprise 50.0001 percent of the voting population...something not likely to happen.

That said, I recognize Israel's existence and its strong desire to be a peaceful and productive part of the global community.

And if they launched a full on military takeover of the Occupied Territories today, I couldn't blame them. The mindless thuggery disguising itself as "legitimate resistance" in the Palestinian mind is neither noble nor effective. How manly a thing is it to kill children and old people? That's not manly or brave. Resist against tanks and soldiers and you have my respect if not my approval. But to send zombified human bombs into lunchrooms..and glorify the outcome? That's a pathetic example of small penis syndrome. The very zenith of cowardice.

Under Arafat and his laughable trys at being Machiavellian, the Palestinians have ridden this odd, viral wave of lukewarm righteousness in exactly the opposite direction of the place of the aggrieved, legitimate underdogs they could rightfully hold in the world's eye. But instead of proud and determined people, they come across now as miserable and psychotic.

When the word "Enough" is spoken BY them TO themselves, my sympathy may return. Until then, their fate, and the blame for it, falls on no one but them.
 
ctbarnes
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RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 3:27 am

Part of the problem with Israeli politics is that it's so fractious. The religious parties are in the minority, but the two main parties (Likud and Labor) pander to them because they are the ones who hold the balance of power in the Kenesset. There is no way to form a government without them, and this is why we have such things as El Al being banned from flying on the Sabbeth, and the imposition of theocratic laws. Secular Israelis (who represent the majority) resent these things, but the religious' parties demands Israel become a theocratic state are heeded because without their support Israel becomes even more ungovernable than it already is.

Also, Arafat has lost control of the PA. Hamas is seen as credible because they have established the infrastructure the PA was charged setting up under the peace process but ultimately failed because of corruption, and Arafat's love of demigoguery. That's why their suicide bobmers have so much support among ordinary Palistinians. Arafat, for his part, is completely paralyzed because he has promised much and delivered little resulting in desertion of support. He may be irrelevent now, but what may take his place is even more unpaletable.

Yet each terrorist attack results in Israeli reprisals resulting in more terrorist attacks, and so on... The Palistinians do not engender much sympathy because of pictures of devistation from suicide bombers seen on the news underscores the old stereotype of the Palistinians as terrorists, yet support for Israel's provocotive moves is also waning because each clampdown just increases discontent among the Palistinians and pictures of treatment of refugees seen on the same programs are underscoring the Israeli reputation as bullies.

Hence, an old Jewish joke:

Q: Why is Israel the promised land?

A: Because it's been promised to everyone, and no one is allowed to claim it.

Sad, but true...

Charles, SJ
 
Guest

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 3:43 am

It's meant to be a last resort, and not something to be ecstatic about.

I don't know pal. The message Palestinian terrorists are sending Israel is crystal clear: We will murder you at every opportunity, in every place, at any time - even on the holiest of your days.

Not such a great message hunh? So yeah the Israelis are pretty goddamn ecstatic at anything that will end this terrorist savagery.

TNNH
 
N400QX
Topic Author
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 9:51 am

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 3:44 am

Glee is "Jubilant delight; joy." That doesn't describe the situation here-- more like RELIEF that Israel is finally retaliating again.

Anyway, Arafat won't be killed-- that probably would be unproductive... looks like he will be "isolated" but I like the "expulsion" idea more.
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 4:09 am

So you're relieved you're seeing another round of violence then?

Somehow, that dosen't make me feel any better.

Charles, SJ
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4595
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RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 4:56 am

So yeah the Israelis are pretty goddamn ecstatic at anything that will end this terrorist savagery.

Maybe they'll dance in streets because of it.

No, wait. That's been done.

 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 5:11 am

Have to agree, in a way, with 777236ER. This is not a good development. For either side. It would probably weaken Palestinian extrimists in the long term, but is bound to cause numerous innocent casualties (the people used as shields by the noble freedom fighters) as well as IDF casualties. It is not going to stop terrorism all together, and will give the Palestinians another reason to whine over. IL's PR is going to be horribly damaged yet again. IL, on the other side, is forced to call some reservists into service, which obviously interferes with the day-to-day life of Israelis (not that daily suicide bombings aren't), so isn't that kind of giving in to terrorists?

Seems like a lose-lose situation, IMHO.  Sad

LY744.
 
Guest

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 6:07 am

Israel has a long history of inciting the terrorists who they KNOW are going to retaliate. They then cry foul to the world and the simpleminded among us get all upset about those nasty murdering terrorists.... ignoring the fact that the Israelis continue to incite them.

What right did Israel have to deny Arafat access to the peace summit? Only an IDIOT would have thought that they could do that without reprisals. I do not condone the violence inflicted upon Israel but I cannot help but feel that the government of Israel brought it upon their own people with their agressive and illegal actions.

I'm not suggesting that it makes the violence acceptable, but lets point the finger of blame where it should be ... at the terrorists and the Israeli Government equally.


VH-ADG
 
go canada!
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RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 6:12 am

oh adg, yet again you make me laugh with you twisting of the facts to condem israel.

the palestinians stated this mess 18 months ago, israel withdrew 2 weeks ago and the suicide attacks still continued, israel wanted a ceasefire and didnt get one, instead arafat does his normal trick of allowing suicide bombers then suing for peace after wards in order to look good, it doesnt wash any more.

arafat is a terrorist and the world can now see this,
 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:14 am

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 6:23 am

the palestinians stated this mess 18 months ago

This is Israeli PR. So 19 months ago the Israelis and Palestinians were living in harmony and P had no complaint with Israel?

"This mess" was started 50 years ago with the creation of Israel.

kind regards,

RogueTrader

 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 6:29 am

no rouge trader, this mess was created because the arabs and the palestinians didnt accept the orginal plan of two states sitting side by side, the orginal plan had far more land for the palestininas then they will ver get know.

all they have done is consigned thousands of innocents to their deaths in the name of anti-semeticism.

the palestinians have got worse since the creation of their territory.

and i am not israeli, nor jewish, but an historian.
 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:14 am

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 6:38 am

So, which is it, Go Canada, did this mess start 18 months ago as you first said, or 50 years ago

because the arabs and the palestinians didnt accept the orginal plan...????

Everything thats gone on since the creation of Israel is just another symptom of the Arabs and Palestinians "refusal to accept the original plan..."

Agree?

kind regards,
RogueTrader

 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
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RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 6:40 am

I forgot to add to my last post:

i am not israeli, nor jewish, but an historian.

regards,

RogueTrader
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
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RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 7:27 am

"What right did Israel have to deny Arafat access to the peace summit?"

Since when is an Arab League summit a peace summit? More like who-hates-Israel-more summit. Besides, the summit is for leaders of Arab states. To be a leader, you have to take responsibility for at least some of the stuff that goes on in the territory under your control. Being Arab could also help get you there.

LY744.
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4595
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 8:48 am

So, which is it, Go Canada, did this mess start 18 months ago as you first said, or 50 years ago

Whenever it was is pointless next to targeting boys, girls and the elderly with suicide bombs. You seem to be one of these people who insist we listen to the Palestinian story in all of this chaos. I'd be glad to. Again even. And again. I might even agree with them, as I did before. But if all I hear is the explosions in lunchrooms, pizzerias and dance clubs (all 'legitimate' military targets according to them)....my friend I dont care if they have the most righteous position in the world. I'm not interested.

I forgot to add to my last post:
i am not israeli, nor jewish, but an historian.


Nor I on the first two....but maybe, Mr. Historian, you can search back through time and find all the causes and all the movements and all the aggrieved peoples who managed to find resolution WITHOUT resorting to the most heinous methods imaginable.

When you compile a list, phone it in to Mr. Arafat. If he's got a phone that still works.


 
Guest

LATEST: Arafat Under Siege

Sat Mar 30, 2002 8:55 am

Yasser Arafat has told CNN on the phone line that he's hiding in the 2nd floor of his compound and saying "I'm under completely siege".

 
N400QX
Topic Author
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 9:51 am

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 8:57 am

Yeah, yeah, Arafat'll tell CNN anything to get sympathy. The facts:

IDF has neutralized the bottom and top floors of the compound and cut communications. Arafat is isolated in the middle floor, but isn't to fear injury or death per Israeli promises.

Maybe he'll have time to think about things.
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
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RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 8:58 am

The facts

Ah yes, these facts. Are you there? Thought not. But of course, Israel's government wouldn't lie.

I'm not saying that the Palestinians wouldn't lie, but don't be so naive.
 
Guest

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 9:16 am

the palestinians stated this mess 18 months ago,

Actually, the Israelis staRted this mess in the early 1900's, something you appear to conveniently forget.

israel withdrew 2 weeks ago and the suicide attacks still continued,

Withdrew from where? Certainly not Palestinian land, and that begs the question as to why they are there in the first place.

israel wanted a ceasefire and didnt get one,

Because their terms appear to be unacceptable.

instead arafat does his normal trick of allowing suicide bombers then suing for peace after wards in order to look good, it doesnt wash any more.

How can Arafat being "doing anything" when the Israelis have him trapped in his compound. An action that if taken by any other country than Israel would have had the full weight of the Americans come down upon them.

arafat is a terrorist and the world can now see this,

Really, it seems to me that the Israelis are starting to show their true colours. We all know that there are terrorists within Palestine, what many people didn't see until recently was the hidden terrorism coming out of Israel.
 
Guest

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 9:21 am

Arafat'll tell CNN anything to get sympathy

Yeah, yeah...

Arafat is just holding the great chance that Israel gives him.
 
Guest

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 9:34 am

no rouge trader, this mess was created because the arabs and the palestinians didnt accept the orginal plan of two states sitting side by side, the orginal plan had far more land for the palestininas then they will ver get know.

No Canada, this mess was started because England promised something it didn't have the right to promise and the UN mandated something that was outside the scope of their authority to mandate.

all they have done is consigned thousands of innocents to their deaths in the name of anti-semeticism.

Out comes the anti jew label again. It's got nothing to do with anti-semeticism and everything to do with opression.

the palestinians have got worse since the creation of their territory.

Really? It had nothing to do with "occupied terroritories" or "bullying" or "killing" or anything like that?

and i am not israeli, nor jewish, but an historian

don't quit your day job!

Besides, the summit is for leaders of Arab states. To be a leader, you have to take responsibility for at least some of the stuff that goes on in the territory under your control. Being Arab could also help get you there.

Doesn't matter what YOU think, Arafat is the leader and Israel denied him access, only an IDIOT would think they could do that without reprisals.



 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 9:40 am

"Doesn't matter what YOU think, Arafat is the leader and Israel denied him access, only an IDIOT would think they could do that without reprisals."

I don't really mind Arafat going to Hezbollah country for the summit, in fact I'm very disappointed at IL's leadership for not letting him go. Just trying to show you the other side of the picture. I know it's not going to in any way affect the amount of terrorism IL has to face, however.

LY744.
 
N400QX
Topic Author
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 9:51 am

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 12:39 pm

IN MEMORIAM


Staff Sergeant Roman Shliapshtain, aged 21 from Ma'ale Efraim, was killed in Ramallah by Palestinian fire.

Rest in peace.
 
User avatar
Goodbye
Posts: 940
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RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 2:10 pm

In memoriam of the thousands of innocent Palestinian people who have been murdered by Israel's brutal policies. Rest in Peace.
 
N400QX
Topic Author
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 9:51 am

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 2:25 pm

Words cannot express my disgust, Goodbye. That is complete bunk and you know it.

You're taking away from the Shliapshtain memorial post.
 
BWIrwy4
Posts: 877
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:41 pm

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 2:33 pm

In memoriam of the thousands of innocent Palestinian people who have been murdered by Israel's brutal policies. Rest in Peace.

In momoriam of the thousands of innocent Israeli people who have been murdered by brutal Palestinian terrorists groups. Rest in Peace.

Any arguments?
 
jessman
Posts: 1457
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 1:11 pm

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 2:52 pm

No, don't honor them. This is to all the stupid people who are fighting over dirt. May they all blow themselves to hell and leave the rest of the world alone. Pissed
 
N400QX
Topic Author
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 9:51 am

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 3:02 pm

"With God's help, next time we will meet in Jerusalem, because we are fighting to bring victory to our prophets, every baby, every kid, every man, every woman and every old person and all the young people, we will all sacrifice ourselves for our holy places and we will strengthen our hold of them and we are willing to give 70 of our martyrs for every one of theirs in this campaign, because this is our holy land. We will continue to fight for this blessed land and I call on you to stand strong." -- Chairman Yassir Arafat
 
BWIrwy4
Posts: 877
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:41 pm

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 3:04 pm

Agreed, Jessman. May all idiots blow themselves to hell and leave the rest of the world alone. That why I said INNOCENT Israelis and Palestinians.
 
BWIrwy4
Posts: 877
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:41 pm

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 3:06 pm

Zach: Are you saying that Israel has not murdered innocent Palestinians, just as Palestinians have been murdering innocent Israelis?
 
N400QX
Topic Author
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 9:51 am

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 3:10 pm

>Are you saying that Israel has not murdered innocent Palestinians, just as Palestinians have been murdering innocent Israelis?

Murdered? No. Killed? Yes. There is a difference.

In every military action, there is bound to be casualties, whether civilian or military. While they try to prevent civilian casualties, they happen. Happens to every military.
 
BWIrwy4
Posts: 877
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:41 pm

RE: Operation Underway!

Sat Mar 30, 2002 3:14 pm

I understand that, but snipers shooting Palestinian refugees in their own houses strikes me as murder, and not as unfortunate collateral damage.

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