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LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Sat Mar 30, 2002 9:36 am

"Israel has other neighbours which Israel also considers as Terrorists. For example: Lebanon, Jordan."

LOL, you're talking about a country that was almost taken over by Palestinian extrimists. Luckily, the government took strong and decisive actions before it was too late.

LY744.
 
Guest

RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Sat Mar 30, 2002 9:50 am

By the way, I recalled my memory that I was talking to a journalist on the other day, and he said Ariel Sharon IS THE REAL TERRORIST.

I have to look at my MSN Chat Log history to find more details.
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Sat Mar 30, 2002 9:56 am

"I recalled my memory that I was talking to a journalist on the other day, and he said Ariel Sharon IS THE REAL TERRORIST."

Wow, now I see the situation in a whole new light...  Yeah sure

LY744.
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Sat Mar 30, 2002 12:11 pm

Those of you who turn Arafat into the master of all evil are foolish, it's not the man but the circumstances that make these people do what they do. Israel appears to be deliberately inciting them in order to garner support from those out there who just aren't that clever. Seems to me that it's working.

ROTFL. What a joke thiat is. The "circumstances", ADG, are that Arafat turned down a golden opportunity to head his own nation, and lead his people into peace and prosperity. HE blew the chance, not Israel.

And how is Israel "deliberately" inciting these poeple? ROTFL!! Last time I looked, a few Palestinian losers blew themselves up-at the behest of Hamas after 1. Israel had refused retaliation several times in the last week or so after being attacked, and 2. After THE ARAB LEAGUE endorsed A PEACE PLAN!! Seems to me, dear ADG, the inciting is coming solely from one side.

As usual, your prejudice against Israel shines through like a beacon. But thanks for the laughs anyway.

Oh, and you weren't missed in these quarters.
 
N400QX
Posts: 1981
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RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Sat Mar 30, 2002 12:40 pm

IN MEMORIAM


Staff Sergeant Roman Shliapshtain, aged 21 from Ma'ale Efraim, was killed in Ramallah by Palestinian fire.

Rest in peace.
 
N400QX
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 9:51 am

RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Sat Mar 30, 2002 12:56 pm

>The Jewsish state of Israel was started at the end of WWII from land occupied by Arabs since about 1300ad.

I didn't mean an official Jewish state-- I meant the Jewish civilization has been in Israel since Old Testament times. And they're there for a reason.

>I'll wager that even if he dies naturally, somebody will want to 'martyr' themselves because of it.

You're probably right-- I was thinking about that after I posted.

>do you really think that the Israeli government gives a hoot about tourism?

Actually, yes. During the so-called "Holy Week" (Passover, Good Friday/Easter), there are usually many, many tourists creating revenue for businesspeople and the government. Not now. Tourism is WAY down during this busy time of year and many shops just don't open in the first place. They care. Don't you think they care about tourism??


Latest word I heard was that the militaries of terrorist and other Arab states including Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, and Iraq are conducting "unusual troop movements" at this time. I hope this is nothing.
 
Guest

RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Sat Mar 30, 2002 2:15 pm

Ryan,

I'm not disputing the fact that the Palestinians were given a raw deal,

You may not be, but the "names" in these multitude of forum threads most certainly are.

it's just all these 'martyrdom' attacks are really warped IMHO.

I agree that the terrorist attacks serve no positive purpose in the Palestinian quest for freedom, it all really reeks of revenge on both sides now.

I guess what I'm saying is that its a case of Israel today, maybe the UK/Australia etc tomorrow. Obviously Sept 11th was a major case in point.

Will Israelis allow the UN into Israel to resolve the problem? I bet they won't. They don't want peace except under their own terms.




VH-ADG
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Sat Mar 30, 2002 3:53 pm

Will Israelis allow the UN into Israel to resolve the problem? I bet they won't. They don't want peace except under their own terms.

Why should Israel allow the UN to solve it, ADG? That organization has become nothing but a hotbeat of Anti-Semitism over the years. And of course they want peace on their terms-their terms are that Israel is recognized by the Arabs,and allowed to live free of terror.

And you failed to mention, ADG, the "terms" that those lovely folks at Hamas want-no Israel. You can argue with me all you want on that point, but they state it every day, and they state it with these cowardly terror attacks that you and others seem to dismiss out of hand.
 
roguetrader
Posts: 1404
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 5:14 am

RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Sat Mar 30, 2002 4:29 pm

Why should Israel allow the UN to solve it

Well, the UN was acceptable to the Israelis when the UN was so kind as to create their country for them.

If you say the UN has no business in coming into the area now known as 'Israel' to solve a problem, why did the UN in 1948 have a right to come into the area then known as 'Palestine' to solve a problem?

kind regards,

RogueTrader
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11625
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Sat Mar 30, 2002 6:04 pm

Firstly, I think I speak for most of us when I say that when we/you say "Palestinian(s)" we mean the terrorist ones and not the women/children/good men.

Secondly, the Bible says that the land was Israel. The man that lead the oppressed people out of €gypt went to the Promised Land or something and made it home. Jews ---> a land called Israel. Therefore, Jews were there first.
 
Guest

Tbar220

Sat Mar 30, 2002 7:06 pm

Last I checked, there weren't any Palestinian civilians killed during the last ten days, only Palestinian terrorists and gunmen. Unless you find otherwise..

Reports coming out of Ramallah at the moment are suggesting that the Israelis are shooting anyone who dares come out onto the street. I am sure that 2 people were gunned down, when they came out onto the street in the morning, not knowing what was happening the night before. A journalist was shot in the mouth by the Israelis, as he sat in his car, which was clearly marked as being a press car.

Don't for one moment think that the Israelis have the moral upper hand in this.

If I had my way, we would be rid of Sharon, rid of Arafat, and get a UN peace keeping force into Israel/Palestine, which would be run under a UN appointed commissioner. Well within the charter of the UN.

Also, peacekeeping force, would have to, at this stage, comprise of Arab forces, either from Egypt, Jordan, UAE, or one of the other moderate Arab nations. If they fuck up, it is going to ruin their country's reputations in the eyes of the international community. Let the Arabs take, not a commanding role, but a role all the same.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Sat Mar 30, 2002 7:12 pm

Well Israel stormed the compound of Yasserman and they only arrested 70 people, not kill them. I doubt the Palestinian people in there would have been so lenient on the Israeli troops.
 
LJ
Posts: 5468
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Sat Mar 30, 2002 7:29 pm

Who has the right to live in Israel? Everybody who once lived there. Unfortunately that's not the view of the Israeli governement. According to the latest numbers, if you calculate all Palestinians who have a genuine claim to live in Israel (thus including all ousted palestinians now living in the refugee camps) the number of Palestinians would be more than 50% of the total population in Israel. Thus in effect the entire country will be dominated by the Palestinians, hence the reason why the Israeli government can never live in peace with the Palestinians (because they can't fullfill one very important demand) and hence why the Palestinians will do everything in order to get "their" ousted people back.

Singapore Air, do you really think that there were non people living in "Israel" before Mozes (sorry if I'm wrong) led its people to the promised land.

BTW I wonder what the Koran says about this episode. f I'm correct Mozes is also a prophet in the Islam. Furthermore, the Bible can't be used her as those arguing with Israel don't actually consider this book very factual.
 
Marco
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RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Sat Mar 30, 2002 8:06 pm

BTW I wonder what the Koran says about this episode. f I'm correct Mozes is also a prophet in the Islam. Furthermore, the Bible can't be used her as those arguing with Israel don't actually consider this book very factual

No has proven the Bible to be "not very factual" so far. Also, the Jews do believe in the old testament, which is a part of the Torah. In the old testament the land was the promised land for the Jews.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Sat Mar 30, 2002 9:03 pm

Singapore Air, do you really think that there were non people living in "Israel" before Mozes (sorry if I'm wrong) led its people to the promised land.

Probably yeah. Unless someone proves me wrong.
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
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RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Sat Mar 30, 2002 9:13 pm

oh adg you do make me laugh so much.

israel pulled out and didnt do anything for 2 weeks and the bombings continued, they have promised not to kill arafat nor harm him.
israel has shown restraint, just like it did during the gulf war, what you cannot accept is the difference between retaliating against terrorists and the delibrate killing of innocents.

a lot of people, not naming names, couldnt understand the concept of going after the taliban and al-queda in afghanisatn and tried to equate the usa with the terrorists.

the difference was that the usa never delibrately killed civilians, yes there were civilian deaths but in the long term the afghan people have been saved from the taliban and americans can rest(as well as europe and austrialia) a little easier in their beds at night.

so can the israelis when they defeat and smash this terrorist organisation.

the pro-palestinians can trumpet as many civilain deaths as they like but it wont wash, it wont wash with the distortion of history to suggest that israel has no right to exist, it wont wash to say the israelis are as bad as the terrorists. it wont wash to suggest that the arabs wants peace.

take today for instance, the un secuirty cancel votes to request that israel withdraws again and the syrians abstain.

why? and why did the syrians abstain from the un vote backing the arab peace plan?

becuase they like many others want the destruction of israel and dont want peace.

israel tried for a ceasefire and didnt get it, instead they got more deaths and destruction.

why cant you people understand that arafat doesnt want peace and israel is responding after being goaded.

you people arent liberal, youre soft.

the last 2 weeks have shwon to the world that israel wants a ceasefire and the palestinian authority doesnt, it did its normal trick of backing suicide bombers and then suing for peace once more israelis are dead.

just for once why cant some of you understand that THE ARABS AND THE PALESTINIANS DONT WANT PEACE!
 
Guest

RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Sun Mar 31, 2002 2:48 am

Latest word I heard was that the militaries of terrorist and other Arab states including Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, and Iraq are conducting "unusual troop movements" at this time. I hope this is nothing.

This ACTUALLY means something though. I'm not doing predictions whether these countries, especially Lebanon will target Israel for Israeli military action against Arafat compound.

For Lebanon, it may not be the Government launching action, but it's the extreme military group to launch their own 'Jihad" against Israel.

If Saudi and Egypt are also conducting 'unusual movement', I guess Egypt and Saudi is getting mad towards Israel.


If I had my way, we would be rid of Sharon, rid of Arafat.

This will be controversial, but I think We should get rid of Sharon first. Arafat has been around here for 30 years. If he's the guy that continues breaking the peace deal offers, then he's name won't appear on the fron page over and over today.
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Tue Apr 02, 2002 7:11 pm

Singapore Air, If you read the Bible, you might come across the Book of Joshua, who led the Jews into the Promised Land. You will note that they had destroy several cities to get it, slaughtering the inhabitants. Jericho, Ai, Jerusalem, Hebron, Jarmuth, Lachish, Eglon, Makkedah, Libnah, Debir, and other cities were all destroyed, and the inhabitants were all put to the sword.

So you can't say that they were there first. They owned the land by right of conquest, just as it was taken away from them by the Romans.

the last 2 weeks have shwon to the world that israel wants a ceasefire and the palestinian authority doesnt, it did its normal trick of backing suicide bombers and then suing for peace once more israelis are dead.

I don't see how you interpret it that way. Israel is on the offensive here. The Palestinians (or at least some of them) are reacting in any way they can. Unfortunately, they are targeting civilians, which only furthers Sharons' cause. If the Palestinians were smart, they would send their suicide bombers to attack ONLY Israeli military targets. If they did that there would no longer be any moral distinction between either side.

israel pulled out and didnt do anything for 2 weeks and the bombings continued,

During those 2 weeks, did the settlements remain in the West Bank and Gaza? Yes. That in itself is cause enough for the whole conflict.

And those who say that Arafat threw away an opportunity for independance 2 years ago - that offer was a joke! The settlements would have remained! Any proposal which includes the settlements remaining is bound to fail. It is an insult to the Palestinians' sense of sovereignity.

THE SETTLEMENTS MUST GO! Then you can start to talk about peace. Trying before the settlements are dismantled is a waste of breath.

Charles

Charles

 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Tue Apr 02, 2002 7:58 pm

"Singapore Air, If you read the Bible, you might come across the Book of Joshua..blahblahblah...were all put to the sword."

I'll take your word for it. Still means it's the Jew's land though.
 
Guest

RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Tue Apr 02, 2002 9:59 pm

Why should Israel allow the UN to solve it, ADG?

My point is proven.

(the answer of course is twofold. One: the Israelis are obviously unable to resolve the issue themselves and Two: the UN created the problem).

That organization has become nothing but a hotbeat of Anti-Semitism over the years.

Translation: the UN won't side with the Israelis and is therefore Anti-Semetic. Well bully for them Alpha1, the UN is the voice of the WORLD and the voice that created Israel .. if they think the UN isn't worth listening to then they should pack up and get out of Israel.

And of course they want peace on their terms-their terms are that Israel is recognized by the Arabs,and allowed to live free of terror.

and to keep all the land they have stolen, and to continue to opress the Palestinians, and continue to restrict access to the water in Gaza .....

And you failed to mention, ADG, the "terms" that those lovely folks at Hamas want-no Israel.

I don't need to. We ALL acknowledge that the Hamas are nothing but terrorists, it doesn't matter what they want. Your insistance on always bringing them up in discussions is simply your attempt at propoganda!

You can argue with me all you want on that point, but they state it every day, and they state it with these cowardly terror attacks that you and others seem to dismiss out of hand.

Rot Alpha1 .. I put it to you that your continued raising of the Hamas in these discussions is simply to smokescreen the issues under discussion.


VH-ADG
 
Guest

RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Tue Apr 02, 2002 10:09 pm

If I had my way, we would be rid of Sharon, rid of Arafat, and get a UN peace keeping force into Israel/Palestine, which would be run under a UN appointed commissioner. Well within the charter of the UN.

It's clear that neither country is capable of rational actions so I agree.

Also, peacekeeping force, would have to, at this stage, comprise of Arab forces, either from Egypt, Jordan, UAE, or one of the other moderate Arab nations. If they fuck up, it is going to ruin their country's reputations in the eyes of the international community. Let the Arabs take, not a commanding role, but a role all the same.

This I don't agree with. It would be quite provocative to put arab troops in Israel or Palestine. Israel have reason not to trust the arabs and they would be crying about bias and so forth. It would put then in their favourite position, that of "victim".

Better to put troops from Europe in there. Or maybe we should send the best fighting force in the world over there to kick some terrorist botty.



VH-ADG
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Wed Apr 03, 2002 1:09 am

I'll take your word for it. Still means it's the Jew's land though.

It means that other people were there first. I don't mean to say that Israel should not exist, but the indigenous people must have the possibility to live with some sense of dignity and sovereignity.

Charles
 
Guest

RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Wed Apr 03, 2002 6:28 pm

Or maybe we should send the best fighting force in the world over there to kick some terrorist botty.

Yeehaw! So who do you propose? If the IDF can't do it, who can? Misspelled "booty". Work for AFP do you??

 Laugh out loud
TNNH



 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Wed Apr 03, 2002 10:18 pm

"And those who say that Arafat threw away an opportunity for independance 2 years ago - that offer was a joke! The settlements would have remained! Any proposal which includes the settlements remaining is bound to fail. It is an insult to the Palestinians' sense of sovereignity"

a) My understanding is that most settlements would have be dismantled
b) I don't believe that proposal was a final agreement, i.e. there was more negotiating to be done in the future, after the proposal was to be implemented, where the remaining issues could be discussed.

LY744.
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Breaking News: Israel Declares Arafat 'enemy'

Wed Apr 03, 2002 10:34 pm

ADG:

In a different thread you stated that even the Israelis, with all their intelligence assets in the area, don't know who the terrorists are. Yet, you are a big supporter of international observers. Do you think they will have any idea? It's going to be the same story all over again, just like Lebanon or the Sinai. The terrorists act as if they own the place, there are more sophisticated attacks and the IDF can't do anything about it thanks to the efforts of the international observers. Last year's events, when observers in Lebanon practically assisted in the kidnapping (and murder) of 3 IDF soldiers by the Hezbollah wasn't helpful either. That is the reason for the Israelis not trusting observers, and not any far fetched ideas, like the observers getting in the way of the Israelis' (fun, fun, fun!) attrocities.  Insane

LY744.

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