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f.pier
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Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Sun Sep 15, 2002 5:46 pm

I think that remembering those terrible facts is quite unuseful and it only make us all suffer.

I really suffer when I read sentences like "We will never forget". Why?

I think that the most important proof of our civilization is the capability of forgive, to look at the future, not behind us, but the future.

When I hear words like "revenge" I really think this is the worst way fo fix problems.

With wars you make people suffer, get angry, increase their desire of revenge, that's why I think we should all forgive people who made us suffer so much, it would be really useful and it demonstrates that with violence it's impossible solve any kind of problem.

But now I see exactly the opposite, GBJ only wants kill other people, my prime minister, the same thing, I'm really disgusted, because I think that when the militaries are involved, the problems become heavier and heavier, and they can only people go crazy.

I don't want to remember the WTC for my whole life, I only want to forgive and to forget.

If we all forgive and forget, we'll demonstrate that the Christian basis is the capability to forgive, and this is our strength, our culture, our way to solve problems.
 
NZ767
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Sun Sep 15, 2002 6:41 pm

Pretty hard to "forgive and forget" the deaths of 3000 plus innocent people don't you think?
We're talking about a terrorist attck here, not a breakup with a grilfriend.  Nuts
 
PH-BFA
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Sun Sep 15, 2002 7:05 pm

F-pier, you have to understand that to forgive and forget are two totally different things. We will never forget is only a tribute to those who died in tha terror attacks. And who do we have to forgive? The hijackers?

PH-BFA
 
Guest

RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Sun Sep 15, 2002 7:19 pm

I think that they should never forget ... Remembering is different to dwelling on it, remembering honours the memory of all those who died.



VH-ADG
 
f.pier
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Sun Sep 15, 2002 7:44 pm

What does the sentence "I forgive but I don't forgive"?

It's a nonsense. Forgive means to delete, to erase. That's the only solution.

3000+ deaths will not return to life either if you forget or if you don't.

If you don't forget/forgive you'll cause other hate, other reasons to fight, to kill, to murder!!!

This is the future you want?

 
L-188
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Sun Sep 15, 2002 7:46 pm

If you forget the past you are doomed to repeat it....

That isn't mine, I got that off a bar coaster or something....
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
f.pier
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Sun Sep 15, 2002 7:52 pm

Do you really think that the hate , the war, other thousands of dead people can be the base of the world peace?
 
Klaus
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Sun Sep 15, 2002 8:23 pm

Without trying to compare the gravity of the two events, I see it similarly to the Holocaust: It would be a bad mistake and disrespectful to the victims to forget, but it might be possible to forgive.

But in any case, the only people who really could forgive would be the direct or indirect victims, and the ones to be forgiven would be the persons directly or indirectly responsible for these crimes.

For those of us not involved either way I think we should be very, very careful not to quickly pass judgment on whole groups or even nations. This kind of judgment has all too been the original cause of the most horrifying crimes in history.
 
Guest

RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Sun Sep 15, 2002 10:12 pm

"If we all forgive and forget, we'll demonstrate that the Christian basis is the capability to forgive, and this is our strength, our culture, our way to solve problems."

"But now I see exactly the opposite, GBJ only wants kill other people, my prime minister, the same thing, I'm really disgusted, because I think that when the militaries are involved, the problems become heavier and heavier, and they can only people go crazy."


It is a Christian principle to "turn the other cheek." However, when one is having to "turn the third or fourth cheek," then it's time for action. The US must defend itself. Do you honestly think that GWB wants to kill people? The US is very precise in it's military operations, sparing civilians whenever possible (except when Clinton is at the helm, of course), does this sound like bloodlust to you?

If terrorists had killed 3000+ Italian citizens, would you be so interested in "forgiving and forgetting?"

In fact, I can forgive the hijackers, but I do not feel that eliminates the need to defend ourselves from further attacks. I'm personally not interested in revenge. I am interested in doing whatever possible to prevent terrorism. Do you not think that the US would be doing the rest of the world a favor by eliminating those who would kill them?

"Forgive means to delete, to erase. That's the only solution."

I disagree here as well. To "delete," or "erase" the memory of 9/11 does nothing but dishonor the memory of those who died. And that is no solution at all.

'Speed
 
BH346
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Sun Sep 15, 2002 10:32 pm

I can't believe this. We had an act of terror which killed 3,000+ fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, friends from every corner of the globe. Many babies born have no father now because of this. This has brought grief in the US to many people who did not know anybody in the towers or haven't even been there and has caused some psychological problems for them. And you want us to forget about it? Also, terrorists have said they are planning more attacks. We need to do our best in preventing another horrible mass murder like this.
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
f.pier
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Sun Sep 15, 2002 10:33 pm

Yes, of course, it would have been the same thing.

It doesn't matter the killed people nationality, but only the future, a future of peace, wealth and good life, not hate and anger.
 
VirginLover
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Sun Sep 15, 2002 10:34 pm

Yes... I forgive you Mohammed Atta! I forgive you for using resources in America to learn how to fly a plane into the World Trade Center in the name of religion as you went to a strip club on 9/10/01. I forgive you for piercing a clear blue sky and killing 3,000 mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, sisters and brothers. I forgive you for me having to see people's lives torn apart at the seams in a blink of an eye. Get real F. Pier; it's easy for you to say we should "forgive and forget" as you sit thousands of miles away across the Atlantic. Unfortunately, living on Long Island makes that hard. So it's going to take me just a tiny bit longer to "forgive."
 
BH346
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Sun Sep 15, 2002 10:55 pm

There won't be any peace when there are terrorists all over the place blowing up buildings and killing civilians.
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
go canada!
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Sun Sep 15, 2002 10:55 pm

If you forget your past it will come back at you f.pier, are you saying your happy to forget world war two, are you saying then that the statues in italy maring the birth of your modern state plus commenerating your fallen troops in WW1 and WW2 should be dismantled?

"It doesn't matter the killed people nationality, but only the future, a future of peace, wealth and good life, not hate and anger."

Yes, that wont happen while there are terrorists groups seekign to destroy our way of life, since your italian you should be aware of the alarming amount of al-queda cells found to operate in your country, further more one of your goverment advisors was recently killed by a terrorist organisation.

for cant forget the past horrors, europe tried to post-WW1 and ended up with a far worse war and mass death because it was too scared to stand up to hilter and your former leader.

that doesnt mean to say everyone blames current germans and italians for the second world war and it doesnt mean to say that you blame every muslim or arab because of a mad mad minority.

but you dont forget.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
f.pier
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Sun Sep 15, 2002 11:52 pm

I didn't say it will be easy, but it's necessary.
It's the only way to avoid the hate and the revenge desire.

If you think about it you'll realize that that's the only possible solution.

I don't agree with the people who say that if we forget we disonhour the people who died.

They're dead and they don't need our anger.

We have to look forward and the forget/forgive is the best choice for the future.
 
BH346
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Sun Sep 15, 2002 11:56 pm

Are you saying we should just stand there while we're being attacked?
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
cfalk
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:19 am

I didn't say it will be easy, but it's necessary.
It's the only way to avoid the hate and the revenge desire.

If you think about it you'll realize that that's the only possible solution.


Osama and his gang want something - withdrawal of all westerners from Arab countries, and of American support for Israel. 9/11 was not an isolated event, but a continuing campaign. He will keep attacking until those objectives are met (remember the Cole, and the 2 embassy bombings in Africa, among others). His patterns show that these attacks will get bigger and more ambitious each time - along a line of logic like "That was not big enough to get them to give in, so here's a little more".

So there are 2 ways to get him to stop: 1) Give in to his demands. This is clearly out of the question - Holocaust II would soon follow, and in any case the rest of the Arab world does not share his views of isolation. Or 2) You stop him by active means - kill him or capture him.

If you "forgive and forget", he will attack again, and those who advocated not stopping him will be guilty of murder, or at least of involuntary manslaughter through gross negligence. You could have done something to prevent the next attack and you chose not to. Would you like the death of the next victims on your conscience? Or do you not have one?

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
SSTjumbo
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:20 am

Maybe forgiveness is necessary, but that still doesn't negate the fact that there is turmoil in the Middle East that needs to be handled, some way, some how.
I don't know, so this is my signature.
 
f.pier
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:25 am

I didn't say not to fix that problem, but not with war.

We can help them to develop their countries, to reduce the hunger, to increase their income. This is the solution, not the war.

That's only the beginning of a new terror era.
 
Matt D
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:25 am

I thought we should've just fired a couple of Sparrows into that big rock at Mecca that all of the Muslims bow down to every year during the Haji season and convert it into kitty litter rubble.

That was my first thought. It would certainly avenge the leveling of the WTC, and be a sort of redemption for New Yorks amputated skyline.

But then I later realized that committing such an act would serve no useful purpose and would probably spark WWIII. Plus I also got flamed for making that comment. And everyon was right. That WAS pretty small brained thinking.




I would now have to pretty much echo Cfalks post. As usual, he hit the nail squarely on the head.
 
Klaus
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F.pier

Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:28 am

F.pier: I didn't say it will be easy, but it's necessary. It's the only way to avoid the hate and the revenge desire.

Wrong. If your "tolerance" of others is merely based on ignorance (through forgetting the past), then it´s worthless.

We need to remember, to differentiate and to still be able to live with each other. That´s what it´s all about.
 
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IHadAPheo
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:28 am

Forgive and Forget?, An interesting idea that works wonders if you are talking about oh let's say a child who accidentally broke a window on your house while playing baseball, football (the US or the Rest of the world's version). But here we are talking about a situation that is quite a bit in a different league. If we are to do nothing and sit by in our panacea and let these events happen and say, "oh that's OK, I forgave you for killing 3,000 of our citizens, then what's next?? 30,000, 300,000, 3,000,000, 3,000,000,000, and finally what 6,000,000,000.

When we are all dead then yes all WILL be forgotten, so I guess the point of forgive and forget will work out just fine. Thankfully the Japanese have not forgiven us for nor will they EVER forget about the a-bombs that we dropped on their cities, and I am sure that those of the Jewish faith will not forgive nor forget about Hitler, and we sure still learn quite a bit from oh let's say the Peloponnesian (sp?) War.

Even more recent history shows us what can happen if we try to forgive and forget transgressions, look no further than


Yours
Ihadapheo
Pray hard but pray with care For the tears that you are crying now Are just your answered prayers
 
Matt D
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:29 am

So what you're saying is that we should just drop bags-o'-cash on them, and all of this will go away????

Jeez....there's a brilliant solution. They level our Twin Towers, and damage the Pentagon, and take 3600 people with them. So let's give them 10 billion dollars.

You KNOW what would happen next. They'll be wondering...."hmmm...if we take out the Sears Tower and the St. Louis Arch, and kill 7200 people, maybe they'll turn around and give us 20 billion."

I think you're thinking is kind of convoluted, don't you think?

 
Guest

RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:37 am

Oh god, I hate these posts so much. I hate these foreigners who have no connection to the death, who have no connection to the destruction, no connection to the reality that these people are actively trying to destroy MY way of life, everything I have done for the past 21 years, everything my countrymen have achieved for the past 230 years and everything we have built and you goddamn want to forgive that. The thousands of Americans who died to liberate you backward ass country from a fascist anarchic dictator, will not be forgotten, the millions of Americans dollars spent to rebuild Europe will not be forgotten. The hundreds of billions of spent to defend western Europe from colonizing communism will not be forgotten. The 3,000 innocent mothers, and fathers and children will not be forgotten. We've helped your country in the past and never asked you to forget about the destruction and devestation wrought by your own leaders. Neither will you to us. At our time of need, you will simply say, "friend, what can we do to help?" as we have multiple times in your country's short history.

TNNH
 
f.pier
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:44 am

Dear Twaneedsnohelp, I want u to know that I live in Europe, which has an history of sufference, which has the concept of death much more than the United States.............

Our countries were completely destroyed and that's why we understand what wars are, if you attack other countries a lot of people will suffer, and they're people exactly like you and I and I don't want them to suffer.

We Europeans know the sufference.

I thank the US for what they did for us, but in fact they didn't lose their money, it was just an investment, because they earned much more from us, so don't tell me that you are the good father.

Remember that the most of you come from Europe and the people who made the US rich were European.
 
American_4275
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:52 am

If you weren't IN NEW YORK on September 11th, you obviously have no clue what kind of chaos....what kind of a tragedy it was. The best I could do was sit at home on the night of 9/11/2002 and watch the documentaries on what happened. I watched the same documentary again on 9/11/2002 that was on a few days after the actual tragedy. It was the one about the two French cameramen and that really gave you an idea of how absurd it really was. It was absolute chaos. So don't go telling me that we should:
1. Forgive....NEVER
2. Forget


American_4275
 
VirginLover
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:55 am

You'll have to excuse F. Pier, he lives in a magical fairy land where people stand on a hill with the sun and rainbow behind them as they sing Kum Ba Ya. In his magical world, things can be achieved by talking it out and smoking Peace pipes.

America isn't war hungry. But if going to war prevents or helps to prevent another 9/11...I'm for it.
 
f.pier
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:59 am

OKOK, who cares of other lives, only american lifes are important.

I can't stand this way of thinking.

I don't need to be excused for nothing because I think human life is the most important thing on Earth, but all lives have the same value, American, Iraqi, European, Australian.

That's why I think that who begins and accepts a war is only a murderer.
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:05 am

f.pier, america wont be pushed around. you dont live in the u.s. so you cant say you understand. dont try to say you understand. most of us understand europe has had a problem too. but dont go running your mouth about 9/11. its just a little too personal. Pissed  Pissed  Pissed  Pissed  Pissed
Go big or go home
 
BH346
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:07 am

OKOK, who cares of other lives, only american lifes are important.
Many offices in the WTC were for foreign companies.
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:08 am

F.pier,

I admire your desire for peace.

But if we forgive and forget, as you say, will that lead to peace? Will the al Qaida renounce their hate for the West? Will they stop their terrorist attacks?

If you can show some credible argument that this strategy will work, I will join you. But you would have to be much smarter than any living human being to be able to come up with a compelling argument.

I can't see how anyone who was alive on 9/11/01 can ever forget.

Pete  Smile
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
Matt D
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:09 am

Hmmm...nobody said that an Americans life is more "important" than-say-a Germans. Or that a Japanese is more important than a Pakistani.

Where in the world did you get that idea?

I think you are totally missing or ignoring the point here.

We are going to war because 1) THEY started it and 2) they have no regard for human life. They are eager to sacrifice their OWN lives. What makes you think that they care about anyone elses? Besides, if they believe that paradise with 17 buxom virgins awaits them, then we are doing them the biggest favor by expediting their arrival "there".

We need to eliminate these people who don't wish to live because they don't want us to live either.

But we DO.

And please respond to my earlier post about how you think we should drop money on them.
 
f.pier
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:09 am

That's why I say that revenge is only the way to prepare another attack.

It's not the solution, we don't need it
 
f.pier
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:12 am

Delta, why do you think an attack against Iraq will solve the problem?!?!?
OBL men will only become anger and anger and in the future this way of solving problem will give to the terrorist a reason to exist, they'll think that we want to kill them and they'll kill us.

There are never good reasons for wars, never.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:34 am

An attack on Iraq will start the ball rolling on democracy in the Arab Mideast. This is of course what the Saudis fear the most.

As for forgiveness, no...it's far to soon. Nobody kills 3000 Westerners and gets away with it. The war on terrorism has just begun.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
f.pier
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:46 am

The seeds of war and violence can only generate hate and violence.

That's why war is never a solution.
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:51 am

F.pier...Delta, why do you think an attack against Iraq will solve the problem?!?!?

I do not recall saying that. And I don't know exactly what "problem" you are referring to.

I would like to see Saddam's weapons of mass destruction destroyed. That will at least protect us from a cataclysmic event, although not from terrorist attacks. As far as al Qaida getting angry, they are already angry.

So, you have expressed your opinion regarding the consequences of attacking Iraq. But, in your opinion, what would be the consequence of doing nothing?

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
Guest

RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:52 am

forget it, don't waste your time with this guy. he's clueless.

tnnh
 
Klaus
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:54 am

While I´m certainly against forgetting or summarily forgiving any cruelty or injustice, I´m also very certain that you can fall down just as easily to the other side.

Feeding the fire of hate and using the pain for one´s own agenda has always been a favourite of rulers and politicians. And almost without exception, this instrumentalized desire for revenge has gone down to ever new lows of cruelty and injustice.

Drowning out reason and compassion is the first step. Dehumanizing the declared enemy is the next step (whether he´s really been involved or not doesn´t matter). And massacres and destruction are the result.


The pain is real. And it must not be ignored.

But when dealing with hate and fanaticism, there is no real alternative to reason and cool justice.
 
Rai
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:01 am

If we all forgive and forget, we'll demonstrate that the Christian basis is the capability to forgive, and this is our strength, our culture, our way to solve problems.

This must be one of the most ignorant statements I have read on this forum. It shows that you obviously have no clue about the real world or what goes on.  Insane I wish it was all as easy to put forth those childish beliefs you hold so dear into practice.

I will give you four reasons why I will never forgive or forget what happened on September 11th, 2001:

1. I live in New York City and this city is my home. It absolutely sickens me to my stomach to go into Lower Manhattan and see all the devastation and destruction. Our skyline was amputated and 3000 of my neighbors and fellow New Yorkers perished because these scum. I worked two blocks north of the World Trade Center and used to go there every day for lunch. I used to go to the underground mall and read magazines at the bookstore. I used to sit outside on the promenade and just watch the people walk by doing their daily thing...I cannot do that anymore.

2. The attacks have devastated our local economy. We were doing pretty well, especially compared to the rest of the nation, until Sept. 11th. Hundreds of thousands of people in this city here have lost their jobs as a result of Sept. 11th, including me.

3. One of my co-workers severed her leg as a result of debris crashing into our building. Two friends of mine worked in the World Trade Center for Fuji Bank. They are both dead and I will never see or speak to them again. And to counter your theory that it was just American lives lost and just American lost lives that matter, neither of my friends were American. One was Russian, the other a Canadian. Lots of people lost their lives and many of them were not American.

4. Like I said, I worked close to the World Trade Center and used to go there all the time. Often a time, I went in the morning when it was quieter. I remember that day well...I had the intention of going that morning to visit some friends who worked in the towers. I slept in that morning because of working long hours the previous day. I remember the subway ride home that night and looking at the towers and thinking how beautiful they looked at night...It was a close enough call the way it was, but perhaps...perhaps...my username would be one of the ones included in EGGD's "This is Scary" post. I shudder to think of the consequences if that were to happen...especially since September 11th is my father's birthday.
 
f.pier
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:04 am

I didn't say we shoud do nothing.

We should make Saddam lose power, but not with bombs, in another way, with the brain!!!!

I'm sure the US and their allies can obtain the same result with astuteness, Saddam is not a highlander, he has enemies in Iraq.

But the war is only a way to kill hondreds of people and make the anger grew in the middle east.

What about Iran and other islamic countries? Do you think they will stay calm and won 't say anything?!?!?

I think it's a big risk, and I think it's a bad solution, it's the worst solution.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:23 am

war is never a solution.

Errr.....yes, indeed it is. The Gulf War liberated Kuwait from Iraq. WW2 liberated Western Europe from the Nazis.

War is never a pleasant solution, but it can indeed be an effective and necessary solution.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
go canada!
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RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:25 am

"I didn't say not to fix that problem, but not with war.

We can help them to develop their countries, to reduce the hunger, to increase their income. This is the solution, not the war."

errm, what do you think the us and its allies did in afghanistan, e are giving massive aid to that country, rebuilidng it with peacekeepers and a interim goverment and are increasing their incomes, but we couldnt do that While bin laden and the taliban regined supreme.

waht do you think we should do with iraq f.pier, give saddam billions of aid to spend on nuclear weapons? remember theres a un oil for food program which saddam could use to rebuild his country but the money goes on his military machine which is actively hunting down iraqi civilians in a regin of terror, the people suffer horrdenous human rights abuses.

removing saddam gives the iraqi people a chance to have freedom, to rebuild their shattered country.

furthernore whathappened in europe after WW2-what did the usa and the uk do to germany? they rebuilt it into a massive economic power house, they rebuilt and aided the french, the us built the united nations and also gave massive aid to japan, what do you think they did then?

what do you think happened in yugoslavia? the country was rebuilt.

its a very ncie idea saying 'no war' no war but you cant tackle poverty and human rights abuses when you have people liek saddam and the taliban in power, look at mugabe in zwimbabwe, you cant give the aid because he uses it for his own means.

no offence but your dream fails to account for these people, its not thought through

kind regards

go canada!

ps-"What about Iran and other islamic countries? Do you think they will stay calm and won 't say anything?!?!?"

yep because they all hate saddam.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
flight152
Posts: 3502
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:26 am

You know what? I have an idea. F.pier can MIND HIS OWN BUISNESS in Italy when us in the United States can continue our remberence for those who lost their lives.
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:51 am

"There are never good reasons for wars, never"

oh, so your country was never justifed in having the many european wars and civil arguments(before italy was united), i take it then that you feel war against hitler wasnt justified???I see so we should all put up with facists controlling europe just in case someone dies?????

"We should make Saddam lose power, but not with bombs, in another way, with the brain!!!!

I'm sure the US and their allies can obtain the same result with astuteness, Saddam is not a highlander, he has enemies in Iraq."

with the brain, oh right, we have had 11 years of un resolutions and they havent done it, we have had weapons inspectors they havent done it, we have had sanctions, they havent stopped him, we have had oil for food which made the iraqi people suffer because the food went straight to the repubilican guard which is hellbent on attacking iraqi civilains.

so what else do you want the un to do?

saddam has enemies, ys, BUT they are outside of iraq, theIraqi national congree, the iraqi umbrella group isnt in iraq, theres no opposition to him because hes wiped out all his opponents.im sorry but you havent thought this through, name one enemy saddam has in iraq.

"But the war is only a way to kill hondreds of people and make the anger grew in the middle east."

and failing to act will see the whole middle east and europe go up in smoke, iraqs already attack its arab neighbours and used Weapons of mass destruction on them, it hates iran, it hates syria, it hates israel and turkey and do you think that saddam will never attack these countries given the chance?

wouldnt the arabs be even angerier after saddam attacks one of his neighbours and tries to destroy israel and turkey as well? do you think the iranians will be delighted when saddam drops a bomb on tehran or do you think the saudis will like saddam having links to al-queda(as is being proved)??????

what did you want us to do with al-queda? leave it alone in case it hurts us? that kind of thinking went out with world war two.

and as for muslim anger, well do you see arabs and muslims protesting every day because theres been action against a terror group which has blackened their religion and kept a country(afghanistan) subuded??????
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 3:27 am

F.pier, you can't forgive someone that isn't sorry for what they did. So forget about the 'forgive' part.

You say there's no purpose for war, but when others bring it to you, don't you feel you must do everything possible to defend yourself? Diplomacy can fail you know. Then what? Submit? Are you kidding me??!!!
"Shaddap you!"
 
Guest

RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 3:34 am

F.pier,

Without war, you would still be living under a facist dictatorship. Americans died so that you could express your albiet misguided opinion. So just stop whining ok? My stomach can't tolerate much more of it.

'Speed
 
apathoid
Posts: 887
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2001 3:19 pm

RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 3:40 am

It's a good thing for you that some men from America (my grandfather among them) were willing to fight and die for you, isn't it? Forgetting what happens dooms you to live through it again, and it dishonors the memories of those who did not choose to be involved in al queda's war against America. Forgiveness is not always warranted, especially when those who attack you have no remorse and only wish to bring more death and destruction upon your country.

Put your head back in the sand....you'll feel safer and it keeps you from saying such stupid things.
 
kaitakfan
Posts: 1547
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 1999 1:04 pm

RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 3:47 am

Dear Marwan Al- Shehhi,

Hello Mr Al Shehhi. You may not know me. However I know you very well. You were the man who decided to take over my airlines 767-200 a year or so ago. You were the man who played god with all the passengers on board. Some with there 3 year old kids. You were the man who had no mercy to kill Captain Saracini and First Officer Horrocks. How did you kill them Mr Al-Shehhi? Was it fast? Or did you maybe keep them alive so they could see what you would do with their aircraft, their crew and their passengers? I am still very upset to this day you decided to kill 2 of my great motivations in life, These two men were great influeces to me. Now they are gone. How did you feel with the blood of these great men on your hands as you managed to manuever their aircraft at high speeds into the World Trade Center? Was it a rush that you finally are showing the devil's of the west who is really in charge. Can you imagine to faces of the people in the tower as you were approaching them almost as symbolic grim reaper?

You would have been amazed at the sheer amount of destruction you caused Mr Al Shehhi. You killed alot of men, women and children that tuesday morning. You also made matters only worse for your people back home. Even though you killed so many that day, as well as destroying a multi million dollar aircraft plus an American Icon, I want you to know something. I forgive you. You deserve to have the respect of all Americans and myself. In your name we will have peace on earth. All because you single handedly created the worst nightmare for people all around the world. But hey we all make mistakes. We all forgive you!

Signed,
Brian Wozniak (still missing my friends from UA175 and 93)

Hmm after writing that little letter is it me or do you all think the should be forgiveness for the disgusting acts last year? F. Pier, your idea of peace is ideal. I wish the world could be at peace. But to an extent after what happend in NY,PA, and D.C., I think we are doing the right thing. Do you honestly think those killed would want no action to be taken and the men who took their life to be forgiven? That is a slap to the face to all 3,000 killed, to myself and everyone else who lost people that day.
 
f.pier
Topic Author
Posts: 1407
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 2:50 am

RE: Forgive And Forget The 11/09/2001 Events

Mon Sep 16, 2002 4:03 am

I still can't understand why you cannot realize the reasons of those acts.

I think those terrorists were and are angry because of the American behavior, they think the Americans made only their own business and they exploited islamic countries.

I think that a serious foreign policy can be much more efficient than a war, because nothing good can grow from a war action, but only terror, hate, anger and revenge desire.

I'm also very sad because in your replies I can only read revenge words, maybe you don't know that many, many people died in the world because of US policy, many people.

If all that people desirered revenge (as you desire) US would have been really in danger.

But they aren't, I'm sure of that. I want the US to be safe and wealthy, but in the right way, not in the name of revenge and hate.

I'm really sad because in the most of your replies I've read only anger, anger and anger. I've never thought in those terms, I don't believe in war, I think human life is the most important thing in the world and we all have 2 preserve it, not to destroy it.

Nobody can rebuild the WTC and restore all those people to life, it's impossible and we all know that everything is unuseful.

I think that we have to work to avoid similar actions in the future... but I think that war can only increase the probability to have similar events in the future.

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