Flying-Tiger
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Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Thu Oct 03, 2002 6:16 pm

P&O´s newbuild "Diamond Princess" was severely damaged by a fire in the building dock. Around 70% of the ship have been destroyed and it seems that parts will have to be scrapped before they can restart building it. Nobody was hurt in the fire but it took 19h to extinguish it. Here´s a picture:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/021002/170/2d2w8.html

Regards
Flying-Tiger
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saintsman
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Thu Oct 03, 2002 7:26 pm

If it can burn like that in the dockyard, I wouldn't want to be on it in the middle of the ocean should a fire break out.
 
AirT85
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Thu Oct 03, 2002 7:46 pm

Does anyone know what caused the fire? I second Saintsman's comment!
Tony
Why would God make us all so different, if He wanted us to be the same?
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Thu Oct 03, 2002 8:29 pm

On sea it would rather be very different! When a ship is in the dockyard most emergency systems are shut down (firedoors, sprinklers etc) are shut of or have been removed, doors are wide open, you´ve power, gas and other supply lines laying around everywhere, much stuff around which can heavily burn (paper, light woods etc). On sea all systems are operational and the ship is devided into section, the crew is trained and usually the fire can be isolated in a small part of the ship.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
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hkgspotter1
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Thu Oct 03, 2002 10:01 pm

That will not be doing any cruising !!
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Thu Oct 03, 2002 11:26 pm

I think with that much damage to ship (70% destroyed) it'll just be cheaper to scrap the ship than to rebuild it. That means P&O will have to wait longer because the shipyard will have to build a whole new ship from scratch.
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Thu Oct 03, 2002 11:33 pm

Well, they could do basically the same which the Masa-Yard did with the "Sally Albatros" (??) when she mostly burned out. They could scrap the ship down to the hull (removing the complete superstructure), saving the whole engine room and the primary hull work. Would be cheaper and save quite some time.

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Flying-Tiger
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RayChuang
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Thu Oct 03, 2002 11:55 pm

From what I've read in the news it appears they could in theory remove everything down to the basic hull and engine room and rebuild it from there. Mind you, that would be at least 18 months of construction work.

However, if the fire caused damage to the hull it'll probably be cheaper to just cut up the damaged ship for scrap, save the engine room parts, and build a whole new ship from the keel up using the engine room parts from the destroyed ship.
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Fri Oct 04, 2002 1:32 am

Problem is the weight of the engines. How did my brother say it? "Bis zur Wasserlinie abflexen und neubauen!". (Cut it to the water line and rebuild it). As it seems from the pictures the fire was only in the structure above the water line which would basically speak for an undamaged hull. But I´m not a shipbuilding engineer (even though I´ve some knowledge) thus I´ve to wait and see.

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Flying-Tiger
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RayChuang
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Fri Oct 04, 2002 10:27 am

Actually, given the lifting capacity of shipbuilding cranes today, they could easily lift out engine room components piecemeal.

Right now, P&O Princess will likely look at if there is structural damage to the basic hull of the ship. If the hull can be saved, then they could completely remove all the burned out parts of the ship and replace them with new parts, which means about 18 months of work to get the ship ready. In short, don't expect the Diamond Princess to be operational until the late fall of 2004 at earliest (provided they could save the ship).
 
heavymetal
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Fri Oct 04, 2002 12:41 pm

It's just a matter of time before an epic disaster strikes one of these new gigantic liners, full of passengers on the open sea. I'm sorry thats just how I see it.

The first rate liners may be well built, well maintained, well crewed. But what happens when one of these floating zip codes finds its' way to one of the less reputable lines, some new startup with barely enough capital to keep its crew trained? Its just a matter of time. Royal Carribean's Sovereign of the Seas, arguably the first of the modern-era superliners, is approaching its' 15th birthday. Another 5 years or so and she starts wearing out here and there. 20 years of bigger, hipper, newer vessels will cause her owners to build bigger, hipper, newer ships themselves, and these 5,000 person monstrosities find their way into cheaper ownership , registered in more dubious countries and circumstances.

Remember anything that can happen will happen.
 
TurbineBeaver
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Fri Oct 04, 2002 1:34 pm

Astute obsvervation, there HkgSpotter1.

TB
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Fri Oct 04, 2002 7:27 pm

Heavymetal,

I think when a cruise ship reaches 20 years old, it's time to pretty much retire them and have them cut up for scrap. There are very few large passenger ships that will last more than 20 years--it was only a very expensive conversion of the SS France from a high-speed transatlantic passenger liner to the SS Norway that saved that ship from the scrapyard.

Remember, the RMS Olympic--the only ship of its class to serve its whole life in passenger service (the sister ships Titanic was sunk by an iceberg collision and the Brittanic was sunk by a mine in the Aegean Sea during World War I)--was retired and cut up for scrap in less than two decades of service. And both the Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth were retired with about 20 years' service, too.

I expect many ship scrapyards to be busy over the rest of the decade as many older cruise ships are retired and cut up for scrap.
 
Greg
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Sat Oct 05, 2002 8:36 am

I doubt Princess will not take delivery in any form. For those really interested ask me again in about a month or so--Maritime and Transportation is my area of specialization.

The steel, now heated, is flawed and will not pass inspection by the the owner (would need total abover waterline replacement). Neither will electrical or plumping. I have no idea about propulsion systems.

Having this happen in Japan is also seen as a bad omen for the future of the vessel--so it's likely the yard (most of which are quite heavily insured), will scap all but the most expensive and undamaged components.

Further, Princess will receive quite a settlement for having delivery delayed.

What a shame.

 
bmi330
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Sat Oct 05, 2002 10:35 am

Where did they build the ship? Because there not built the way they use to be on the Clyde QE2, QE and the Queen marry not to emtion the royal yatch Britania. lol sorry about the out burst a local pride there lol
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Sat Oct 05, 2002 11:13 am

Greg,

A press release from Mitsubishi Heavy Industries have said they are going to try to see if the ship can be rebuilt.

What MHI Shipbuilding could do is cut up everything above the hull (provided the hull is not heat-damaged) and rebuild everything above it. It appears that hull and the engine room did not suffer any damage from the fire, so the rebuild will like what Masa-Yard did to that cruise ship that suffered serious fire damage some years ago during construction (as mentioned in an earlier message). In short, the Diamond Princess may sail yet, but don't expect delivery to B & O Princess until the end of 2004.
 
L-188
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Sat Oct 05, 2002 1:51 pm

Why is it that a cruise ship allegedly wears out in 20 years but the US Navy can keep Pre-WWII submarine tenders on active duty until the mid-1990's., I think it is the Bolivian Navy that has one ship which was built in the 1890's.

The Alaska Marine Highway ferry system just took, it's first new ferry since the early 1970's about two years ago.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
heavymetal
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Sat Oct 05, 2002 2:24 pm

L-188

I guess the easiest answer is to compare a military 707 airframe with a civilian one. Scheduled passenger use means as much time cruising as is humanly possible. In the Caribbean trade, liner turnarounds in Miami last less than a day for these brutes.

And of course they can sail after 20 years, but like jetliners, there's a reliability issue. A DC-10 breaks down, you can usually call in another to fetch the 260 people waiting around. A cruise ship breaks down in some quaint Central American port village, and suddenly youre looking at a few thousand stranded grumps.

The QE2 and the France/Norway are the only two 'classic' superliners I know of that have been extensively refit at the cost of tens of millions over the years, but last time I heard, Norway was definately entering the twillight of her career.

Anyone know what became of Rotterdam(sailed for the ill-fated Premier Cruise Lines, then I lost track of her) or Canberra?

 
heavymetal
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Sat Oct 05, 2002 2:31 pm

Ouch. I went searching for my own answers. Canberra truly a gorgeous ship, died on the beach in Pakistan at the hands of the crude ship wreckers that proliferate that part of theworld.

The story:

http://www.sscanberra.com/history6.htm
 
heavymetal
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Sat Oct 05, 2002 2:34 pm

Looks like a little more effort is going into keeping Rotterdam from the same fate:

http://www.ssrotterdam.org/
 
L-188
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Sat Oct 05, 2002 2:38 pm

Heavymetal, I look that the M/V vessel Tustumena. A vessel that I have sailed on several times, It operates a ferry service down the Alaska Pennisula where some of the roughest weather occurs.

The vessel was built in the early 1960's and then legnthed after a couple of years of service, It was rebuilt in the late 1980's, one of the big features of that rebuilt was replace the WWII surplus Fairbanks-Morse sub engines with cat engines was one of the big items in that rebuilt, The vessel still continues to sail down the chain several times a year to this day, and there are no plans to replace here.

The aircraft comparison also doesn't really work there either Heavy metal, That is because Steel takes loads differently then Aluminum does, it doesn't have the "memory" (not the right term) that aluminum does when subject to loads.

I also have an issue with the idea of comparing military aircraft and ships, Since Pearl Harbor it has been the policy of the US Navy not to keep their ships in home port, That is part of the reason they are kept at sea so often, to keep them from being trapped again. that may have changed in the last few years but even then I don't belive that the Navy draws shore power when their boats are docked, so the generators and the plants aboard the ships keep running constantly. Even cruise ships get some downtime for reworking every year.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Sat Oct 05, 2002 2:38 pm

Interesting story.

Who owns P&O now? Wasn't it sold to one of the large Asian shipping firms? Did Arison's Carnival make a bid for the former British maritime giant?

tnnh
 
Greg
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RE: Newbuild Cruise Liner Burns Out!

Sun Oct 06, 2002 3:10 am

RayChuang....
It really depends on what's in the original contract. Tolerance for catastrophic yard errors, emmisions, and accidents are negotiated in the original document. I am not sure what is in the Princess contract. One of the larger crude carriers (Japanese owned) who is supplied out of Korea (Hyundai yard) has a strict policy of never taking delivery of any ship that has had a fire or damaged during sea trials. In eleven years they have rejected four tankers---later purchased by other operators--while still under construction. The spefic penalties were so stiff that the last tanker (of 14 contracted) was basically free to the Japanese company.

Just for your information.
Brgds.

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