JETPILOT
Topic Author
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How To Catch A Sniper......

Tue Oct 15, 2002 3:05 pm

I would think that someone like this would be relatively easy to close in on.

This guy was trained somewhere. He's proffesional and to confident to have never done this before.

He must use special equipment that he purchased somewhere.

I wouldn't think he's using off the rack ammo. He's probably loading these rounds himself. Snipers are meticulous and fanatical about their equipment. People handloading .223 ammo are few and far between.

My guess is that he's using an AR15. My reasoning? They sell some pretty insane customized AR15 varmint guns that are scary in accuracy. Flash suppressors which are illegal now were readilly available. If he's ever cornered he's got a fully automatic asault weapon to outgun police with.

See :www.bushmaster.com

There are few AR15 customizers. Pay a visit to every person on the customizers lists.

He's got to sight his scope in somewhere......

Maybe this is a SWAT guy gone bad...

JET

 
Guest

RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Tue Oct 15, 2002 3:25 pm

I agree that he has been professionally trained - he is definitely either ex Army (possibly even Special Forces) or ex SWAT. Indeed, as I said on another thread, it is quite possible that he is a currently serving police officer and is using a police cruiser ... hence his ability to move around undetected.

I would also strongly suspect that he has recently been removed from a sniper team or turned down for assignment to one - he is showing how good he is.

And boy, is he good! He is using a very light round (.223) which is seriously affected by the slightest wind. He's a distance shooter and/or is using a suppressor (silencer) - both of which mean that for him to get the groupings we have seen make him a very good shot.
 
NKP S2
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Tue Oct 15, 2002 3:27 pm

Maybe. The key to catching this nut is to think outside the box, totally unhindered by beaurocracy/red tape. Also helpful would be a more restrained media. A media that does not give helpful hints to this nut on how to evade capture by broadcasting every clue, development, leak etc in the investigation...let alone give satisfaction to this jacka$$ by stoking the flames of public fear.
 
heavymetal
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Tue Oct 15, 2002 3:36 pm

http://www.zediker.com/books/ar15/rifle.html

As to this bastard, I'd say his luck is getting him a lot farther than his "talent".

And I have to wonder...not judge or criticize mind you but wonder......the tactical response to these events. I realize it's a heavily populated suburban world, but still...how tough is it to ring this guy in after the first 9-1-1 call that he's struck again? 5 mile perimeters? 10 mile perimeters? I mean when the first cop shows up at a shooting sight, it's reasonable to assume the sniper is within 20 miles of him. It might be reasonable to assume he's within ten. Maybe 5.

 
JETPILOT
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Tue Oct 15, 2002 3:48 pm

I am a gun enthusiast.

I have never killed an animal intentionally, and never could. I don't hunt because I can't kill living things for sport.

I can't imagine what it must be like to "hunt" and kill a human being. Someone shopping at a Homedepot, or filling up with a tank of gas.

Not to be graphic.... but the woman shot at home depot was a headshot.

Why take a headshot instead of a torso shot? Because now he's showing off. Or that he's going to make sure there are no more surviving victims. I think he considers the survivors as failures. He's ensuring he doesn't fail again.

This guy is a profesional. No doubt about it.

I wonder what added protection the president is Vice are receiving.

JET
 
tbar220
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Tue Oct 15, 2002 3:50 pm

I can only imagine that the police and FBI are working their asses off to capture this guy, so we have to give them credit. Apparently, this guy knows what he is doing, sadly.
NO URLS in signature
 
Guest

RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Tue Oct 15, 2002 3:59 pm

Heavymetal: Try no more than one or two miles - most likely the former.
 
JETPILOT
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:06 pm



Varmint Gun $ 1189.00

This gun doesn't even come under the assault rifle ban... if the sniper is using it it soon will be.

JET
 
saintsman
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:13 pm

The white van seen in the area has cropped up several times now and also the theory that someone was waiting for the shooter for the getaway. Therefore a 'team' is quite worrying. Mind you the fact that the white van has been spotted more that once means that they are not as smart as they think they are.

Discounting the van theory, I wouldn't be surprised that this nutter wanted to have a closer look at his handywork and after the shooting casually walks down to the incident site. If he gets a buzz out of what he does then the buzz from one shot would be over pretty quickly, if he goes down to watch it would last longer. Sad B*****d.
 
Pilot1113
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Tue Oct 15, 2002 5:25 pm

>>I wonder what added protection the president is Vice are receiving.

This is just one of many scenarios that the Secret Service trains for. I really wouldn't worry about someone sniping the President. Although, if the "Zero Year Curse" holds true... all bets are off.

For those that don't know, all Presidents elected in a year ending in a zero have been either shot or stabbed. Reagan was the last one and Bush was elected in 2000.

- Neil Harrison
 
T prop
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Tue Oct 15, 2002 5:35 pm

If he's ever cornered he's got a fully automatic asault weapon to outgun police with

um... AR-15's arn't fully automatic, especially one set up for target shooting. Sure they can be moded to fire full auto but one set up like in the above pix would never be.


Hope they catch the bastard soon.

 
L-188
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Tue Oct 15, 2002 5:38 pm

Actually Jet the AR-15 does fall under the assault weapon ban.

Pre-ban ones generally go for higher prices then post ban ones.

And just try to move to California with one.

Which is sad because Mr. Stoner designed a nice tool.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
JETPILOT
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Tue Oct 15, 2002 5:47 pm

No The AR15 isn't considered an assault weapon without a folding stock or flash suppressor. Pre ban weapons can have folding stocks, flash supressors, larger mags, and a few other things. All I need to buy a post ban weapon is a credit card and a FFL number to send it through the mail.

Yes... AR15's are fully auto...., or 3 round burst, or of course single shot if you pull and release.

Being full auto has nothing to do with the accuracy of this weapon. Of course a weapon like this wouldn't be in full auto. That would be illegal without a FFL land not the intended purpose of the weapon.

Full auto mods are available and again legal with a FFL

JET
 
T prop
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Tue Oct 15, 2002 8:06 pm

Any AR-15 available to civillians are all semi-automatic. A fully automatic AR-15 is a conversion and IMO, probably not legal. The M-16 that the military and law enforcement agencys use is fully automatic. M-16's are not available to the general public.

If you were able to compare an AR-15 side by side with a M-16 you would see the differences between the two.

-All I need to buy a post ban weapon is a credit card and a FFL number to send it through the mail.

If it's fully automatic here's a few more thing you need to do to legally own one in the handfull of states that allow it.

It has been unlawful since 1934 (The National Firearms Act) for civilians to own machine guns without special permission from the U.S. Treasury Department. Machine guns are subject to a $200 tax every time their ownership changes from one federally registered owner to another, and each new weapon is subject to a manufacturing tax when it is made, and it must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) in its National Firearms Registry.

To become a registered owner, a complete FBI background investigation is conducted, checking for any criminal history or tendencies toward violence, and an application must be submitted to the BATF including two sets of fingerprints, a recent photo, a sworn affidavit that transfer of the NFA firearm is of "reasonable necessity," and that sale to and possession of the weapon by the applicant "would be consistent with public safety." The application form also requires the signature of a chief law enforcement officer with jurisdiction in the applicant's residence.

Since the Firearms Owners' Protection Act of May 19, 1986, ownership of newly manufactured machine guns has been prohibited to civilians. Machine guns which were manufactured prior to the Act's passage are regulated under the National Firearms Act, but those manufactured after the ban cannot ordinarily be sold to or owned by civilians.

Having a fully automatic weapon illegally is a different story.


Lastly, why would anyone spend a lot of money to set up an AR-15 as a target/ varmint rifle then convert it to full auto? The parts put into a target rifle were optimized for target shooting not spraying rounds out of a machine gun.

This all said, I sure hope you're wrong about this guy having a fully automatic weapon.


T prop.






 
jwenting
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Tue Oct 15, 2002 9:11 pm

Well, a sniper wouldn't want a fully automatic weapon. He'd most likely go for a bolt-action or semi-automatic weapon.
All he needs is a single round anyway...
.223 is also quite small for a sniper rifle. Means he has to get relatively close, compared to people using the large callibre sniper rifles which can get up to .50.

But he is most likely indeed professionaly trained, or at the very least a very experienced hunter (less likely, as urban fieldskills are different from those needed in the wild).
A former military special forces or police SWAT member would be the most likely person to have the required skills.
I wish I were flying
 
david b.
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Wed Oct 16, 2002 12:31 am

Yes, he is very good. Most likely military trained. He shot 12 people already.
Im suprised by the ammo he uses. A .223 is a very small, low power round. Im guessing that he doesnt want to be caught, hence is using a light caliber weapon. Personally, Im suprise he didn't use a .50, a weapon so powerful it is used to defeat light armor. I think most .50s have a effective range of 3000 yards. But as the the sniper subculture saying goes "One shot-one kill".
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
ExitRow
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Wed Oct 16, 2002 12:38 am

Funny how the NRA is so strangely silent recently.

There's not even any mention of the sniper (a national top story mind you) in the news section of their website. http://www.nra.org

Huh.
 
cedarjet
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Wed Oct 16, 2002 12:41 am

JETPILOT, I have a question. How can one be a gun enthusiast and not fire the things? Or do you just use them at firing ranges?

I guess it's like me being an aviation enthusiast without a pilot's license. But I can still ride on them. Guns surely exist for one purpose, which is to stop people and animals.

On the sniper, I wouldn't be surprised if it's terrorism. I mean think about it. The people of DC are now finding out precisely what it's like to live in the Occupied Territories. It's hard to ignore the significance. Maybe another one of the CIA's foreign agents turned dodgy a la Osama?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
david b.
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Wed Oct 16, 2002 12:46 am

CIA black ops? Who knows? Maybe....................could be the work of the government. Explains the lousy police work.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
GDB
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Wed Oct 16, 2002 3:12 am

 
KLAX
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Wed Oct 16, 2002 3:15 am

Hey guys, funny you're talking about AR-15s because this summer in LA, I had the opportinity to use one of them. A friend of mine owns one, stock, with no modifications, and I'm certain that it is not fully automatic.
Of course, I much prefered trying my buddys other stuff, like his M-1 Carbine and Karbiner K98 Big grin Those were beautifully restored by himself.

ExitRow, I find it sickening that the NRA doesn't even mention the shootings on their page! Thats retarded! Its like they think this guy will tarnish their image...

-Clovis
 
cfalk
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Wed Oct 16, 2002 3:36 am

I think people are overestimating this guy.

From what I've heard, the shots have been taken from a range of 100-200 meters maximum. A headshot at that range with a scoped rifle is pretty easy. Spend a morning at a shooting range, and if you are slightly competent, you've got it figured out. All you have to do is to zero the sights every once and a while for the first, cold-barrel shot (a bullet going through a warm or hot barrel will have a different path than a cold shot.) As far as I know, all he cares for is the cold shot and then he runs.

Secondly, we here that he's got a silencer. Someone who knows how to use some pretty simple machine tools can build one from scrap metal in a few hours.

Flash suppressors are irrelevant. It is impossible to hide the flash from someone in front of the weapon. The idea of a flash suppressor is to reduce the flash as seen by the shooter, so that he's not blinded and can follow with a second aimed shot quickly.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
wn700driver
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Wed Oct 16, 2002 4:14 am

Thank you CFalk! I was going to point that out about the flash surpessor, but you beat me to it (Kinda surprised SAS didn't say anything about it, he said he was in special forces after all).
Anyways, I do not belive this guy is overly intelligent. Using an AR15 at ranges like that, in settings like that virtually guarantees that he will get picked up sooner rather than later.
And yes I know he may just be trying to make a statment, all that, but with the price of that statement being his head, I think that is a remarkably stupid way to go about it.

Also, for those saying law enforcement is sloppy, just because you don't know everylast deatil doesn't mean they are doing nothing about the problem (like Bush's war on Terror, lol), it just means they haven't told YOU about it yet. I am sure they are quite competent.


SAS, you ever get that thing about Operation Disco?
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
L-188
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Wed Oct 16, 2002 10:27 am

Actually I heard the range at about 287 FEET for the shot on that kid at the school.

I set the Zero for my rifle at 300 feet.

It would only take a couple of hours to get somebody who has never shot a rifle in their lives to reliably hit something at 300 feet, and that is with open sights!!!.

This shooter is not that technically competent and I think that is the view that needs to be played up by the media and the authorities. This guy is no doubt getting his rocks off having his skill played up. If we insult that skill he may shoot from farther back where his skill is not equal and we save some lives since he is much more likely to miss.

Silencers are funny things, They are class three devices, so you have to go through all of the federal fingerprinting and stuff to own one. But in many other countries it is recommended/required to use one, to prevent noise polution and disturbing the neighbors when hunting. I want to say this is the case in Sweden but don't hold me to that. I just bought a CZ-452 and the barrel end was manufactured to take a silencer, but that is illegal in the us, so they just have a plug on the end to cover the threads.

That and a lot of Air tool silencers can be simply modified to serve on a rifle, it is illegal in the US to do that, of course.

I think the big modification is threading the barrel of you riffle.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
L-188
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Wed Oct 16, 2002 10:32 am

I want to add, that I don't think this guy is bothering with a silencers.

There have been shots heard, and the purpose for a silencer would have been defeated by the fact that he would have to handload ammo that would specificly travel at less then the speed of sound to prevent a sonic boom.

Since shell casings have been found that tells me this guy is using an semi-auto rifle rather then a bolt action.

I don't think it is possible to build and AR-15 with a subsonic round and still have enough gas pressure to provide for operation of the weapon. I don't think there is enough there to overcome the recoil spring.

Somebody might want to chime in on that.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
TurbineBeaver
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Wed Oct 16, 2002 10:49 am

Mind you the fact that the white van has been spotted more that once means that they are not as smart as they think they are.

Not to doubt you, but it is not like white service vans (Econoline, Astro, Aersostar, Express) are rare. Just about any service type outfit drives one..plumbers, electricians, fixers, etc. I am not surprised that white vans have been spotted so frequently!

TB
 
saintsman
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Wed Oct 16, 2002 4:30 pm

It may take a while to check out, but there will be a list of all the white vans in the area. It won't take as long to check out as it would a list of all the vans in the area.
 
L-188
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Wed Oct 16, 2002 4:35 pm

I still have some doubt as to the weapon used.

Tonight I was listening to the radio and they described the weapon that was sighted as an AK-74.

The AK-74 is a modernized version of the AK-47 except that it fires a 5.45 mm shell, not the 5.56 mm shell that is used in a .223 rifle.

AK-74's are definatly not common. I don't recall ever seeing one in a gun shop, I have seen a lot of AK-47 knock off's mostly Egyptian made but never an AK-74.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
TurbineBeaver
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Thu Oct 17, 2002 2:32 pm

Deep thoughts, by Sainstman.
 
Guest

RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Thu Oct 17, 2002 2:53 pm

L-188

I wonder if that was a press error? AK-74, AK-47? Why the change in weapons? Not like he's going to fool anybody. Scary thought, maybe there's more than 1 shooting team out there now? Night time head shot with a different weapon? Ford Econoline and Chevy Astro? Not exactly identical!! Bad news. According to the news this evening it took almost 15 min. for the cops to get there perimeter setup. In 15 min you could be a long way away from the scene.
 
Guest

RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Thu Oct 17, 2002 2:57 pm

I'm morbidly fascinated with this whole thing. No doubt a depraved individual is behind this, but I'd be very interested to know what's going through this guy's head...

I'd be even more interested in seeing this bastard fry for capping school kids and ladies in parking lots. Coward.

'Speed
 
L-188
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Fri Oct 18, 2002 9:54 am

It appears now that report of an AK-74 was made by that witness who apparently falsified his statement after the last shooting.

I thought that was really weird ordnance for him to be using. Like I said earlier I have never seen 5.45 Russian Ammo in a gun store-ever.

You are right, Beauslx,

15 minutes in this situation is like having 15 minutes left in a Basketball game.

I still wish they would stop usuing the word, "sniper" to describe this guy. He does not have the skill to be one.

Shooter, Murderer, Killer are all more accurate and acceptable substitutes.

By using the word Sniper they are just building up his reputation and his EGO

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
david b.
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Fri Oct 18, 2002 9:56 am

A real sniper can hit a person from 6000+ feet. This guy, 275 feet. Really pushing it if you ask me.
Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: How To Catch A Sniper......

Sat Oct 19, 2002 11:30 am

This person has killed 12 people, I somehow don't really think he cares much whether his gun type is legal in the US or not, or whether he uses an illegal silencer etc.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.

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