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Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:11 pm
by jgore
Hi everyone

Remember 3 months ago when I asked for some advises on Birthright Israel programs?.
Well, I signed for that trip on July, and just 3 days ago I got confirmed that I was selected for this trip among 400 teens that will go to a 10 days trip to Israel in December with food, housing, recreations, and airline round trip ticket all for free!.
I'm soooo happy ! Big grin
There will be 7 groups of 50 teens on each. We'll get the definite departure date in 1 month.
In my case, besides the 10 days of the trip, I chose to stay 40 days in addition to the trip in my uncle's house. (Every one has a chance to extend the ticked up to 50 days after the trip has finished).
I just wanted to share it with you, and as always, any sort of advice or comment will be appreciated.

Regards

Jgore  Smile



RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:15 pm
by Guest
ohgod. i see where this is going.

the words "happiness", "israel", "living", and "right" don't belong in the same sentence on a.net.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2002 2:12 pm
by We're Nuts
the words "happiness", "Israel", "living", and "right" don't belong in the same sentence on a.net.

Or anywhere in the world, lest ye' be a vulture.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2002 3:43 pm
by acidradio
Pardon my ignorance, but you need to explain what this "Birthright Israel" program is exactly, I am not familiar with it.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2002 4:32 pm
by Guest
Acidradio, no need to request a pardon, its a fairly obscurely known program outside the Jewish community.

Birthright Israel is a program that allows any Jew around the world who has never been to Israel to travel to Israel for a few weeks in May. The trip is free of charge.

Some trips first stop in Poland for a tour of the Nazi Death Camps before going to Israel.

It's a deeply moving and emotional experience developed to connect young diaspora Jewry to the Jewish state.

Non-Jews can apply to go as well - but must have a special reason to do so. The Non Jewish German dean of my Florida high school went on the trip because he was a prominent educator and reasercher of the Holocaust whom the Jewish community thought a Birthright trip would greatly benefit.



TNNH

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2002 4:43 pm
by AC320
Wow, the program sounds absolutely amazing, perhaps I shall apply some day. I have always wanted to visit Israel and experience it for myself. Politics aside, Israel looks be just an amazing place with a rich history, it would be amazing to walk the same earth as my distant, distant, distant ancestors.

I would also be interested in touring the death camps, as far as I know I'm the descendant of the only survivior from a once large and proud family of Polish Jews, I would like to one day find out what happened to them.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2002 5:47 pm
by Guest
Let me get this straight. This programme is only open to Jews - and non-Jews who have a "special reason" for wanting to go? That's clearly discrimination, as Christians and Muslims also have a 'birthright' in Israel. Of course, they don't automatically qualify for Israeli citizenship and passports either ... only Jews do.

I have visited the camps at Auschwitz and Dachau ... Auschwitz in particular, as an extermination rather than labour camp (which Dachau was) had an atmosphere that was very hard to describe ... an all-pervading heavy sense of evil. And it's true ... birds don't sing there. It was a very moving experience for me and something that I would recommend to everyone.

Have a great trip, Jgore!

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2002 5:52 pm
by tbar220
SAS, this is a private Jewish organization, they can do whatever they want. This is not discrimination, its a program for Jewish youth to get a chance to visit the Jewish homeland. Take your politics on the middle east issue somewhere else, its not necessary here.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2002 7:30 pm
by Guest
Tbar220 - the point is that Israel is not just the Jewish homeland, as is claimed ... it's also the birthplace of Christianity and is one of the most significant sites in Islam.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2002 9:52 pm
by galaxy5
Well SAS23 a non-muslim cant visit mecca or go into the Dome of the rock, is that discrimination?

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2002 10:33 pm
by manni
Galaxy5,

Are you talking about the Temple Mount in Jerusalem when reffering to the 'Dome of the Rock'. I'm a non-muslim aswell as a non-Jew and I did visit the place. I dont know about Mecca, but considered you are wrong about the 'Dome of the Rock'...

What certainly is true is that woman can't go inside the synagogue which is situated on the left hand side of the 'male' part of the 'Western wall'.  Big grin

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:36 am
by Guest
Are you talking about the Temple Mount in Jerusalem when reffering to the 'Dome of the Rock'.

You don't your georgraphy that well!  Laugh out loud

The Dome of the Rock is just one part of the Temple Mount complex. The Al Aksa Mosque is another part of the Temple Mount grounds- right now Israel prevents all Non-Muslims from ascending the Temple Mount.

Non-Muslims without a "special reason" are denied entry to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

TNNH

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:58 am
by Guest
TNNH & Galaxy...

Firstly,
Well SAS23 a non-muslim can't visit mecca or go into the Dome of the rock, is that discrimination?

Can't speak for DOTR, but I have been to Mecca many times (It's a city like any other in the ME), though I have not seen the kabaa (sp?), so I coutldn't tell you about discrimination or not there. Not only am I not a Muslim, but I am a woman besides, so I doubt that the discrimination is all that bad. Saudi Arabia will let you in if you are not Muslim, but you must abide by their rules (when in Rome I guess).

As for this program, SAS, I belive that if it is a private venture, they can discriminate how ever they want. That's the way capatalism works, you know...

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2002 2:57 am
by flyboy36y
I may be going too, I was selected on Iralight... but I am concerened about security.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2002 3:17 am
by jwenting
JGore, have a good trip. Congratulations on being selected.
SAS, can you for once keep your political views out of a thread about the Middle East or religion?

I know that you'll find a lot of Muslim organisations that sponsor Muslims who want to visit Mekka during the Haj (can't point you to them, but I've heard enough about them on TV and radio to know they exist). Non-Muslims need not apply.
This group is similar, except you don't like the star of David so they're bad guys...

I don't think you need to bother about security, at least during the guided part of the trip.
It's not more dangerous in Israel than it is in any city in the world (except you have suicide bombers instead of driveby shootings) and I think the tourguides will try to keep you guys away from the highrisk areas as much as possible.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2002 3:52 am
by manni
Well, I've been inside that mosque. Did you TNNH? How much time did you spend in Israel?
And did you say Israel denies entry to the Temple Mount? Well, who exactely is discriminating then?

Jgore,

If you dont like it that people react on your topic, dont post one.

BTW,Despite all the problems over there, Israel is a truly beautiful country!
I liked it a lot.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2002 4:32 am
by jgore
Manni

Is not that I don't like people to react on my topics. Is just that they got off from the topic. That's all.

Jgore  Smile

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2002 4:46 am
by Guest
Manni

I am very familiar with Israel. Thats to put it lightly.  Laugh out loud

TNNH

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2002 5:35 am
by manni
Being a Jew does not make you an expert about Israel!  Big thumbs up
So how much time did you spent in Israel TNNH?

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2002 7:16 am
by galaxy5
Um ive been to both those places ( Mecca the Ka'aba, and Temple mount's mosque ) yes i could SEE them but wasnt allowed to enter, do you understand that part we were told that as non muslims and infidels we could not set foot inside.





these are the places im talking about you can look around the outside all you want but as a non-muslim you can not go in.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2002 3:50 pm
by Guest
Being a Jew does not make you an expert about Israel!

Agreed!

So how much time did you spent in Israel TNNH?

Much more than you I'm sure!  Big thumbs up

TNNH

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2002 7:12 pm
by manni
TNNH,

You're avoiding my question, I wonder why.

Galaxy5,

Why did they allow me to go inside together with some friends, male and female, and not you?

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2002 10:17 pm
by Guest
Funny that something called a "Birthright Program" has absolutely nothing to do with ones birthright.

Oh well, doesn't affect me in any way so if this trip is what the original poster wants, good on him and congratulations for getting it.



VH-ADG

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2002 11:52 pm
by haveric
I turned down a Birthright trip a few years ago for a few reasons:

1. The Israeli goverment subsidizes some parts of the trip (incl. providing tickets on El Al). I find it silly that the Israeli goverment, in some respects is using American tax dollars to pay for American teens to goto Israel when these teens could afford to go on their own (in most cases) if they really wanted to.

2. I dont think American Jewry should be "bribed" to support Israel through propaganda, speeches, and a free trip...

Having said that, my friends who have gone had an amazing time and were exposed to many aspects of Jewish and Israeli life -- have a great time!

Eric

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2002 6:33 am
by Guest
You're avoiding my question, I wonder why.

Because its none of your business.  Laugh out loud

Funny that something called a "Birthright Program" has absolutely nothing to do with ones birthright

Why would you say such a silly thing?

TNNH

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2002 7:38 am
by galaxy5
MANNI "Why did they allow me to go inside together with some friends, male and female, and not you? "

i dont know, i would like to know myself why that occured, i would have loved to have seen the inside.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2002 7:58 am
by manni
TNNH,
What a predictable answer. With an answer like this, I assume that you might have been there on a 10 days vacation, perhaps twice.  Big thumbs up

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2002 8:41 pm
by elal 744
Before you all twist the program out of context
the name of the program is birhright israel (Yes, small letters)

The program does not refer to any other people's rights, only to those of the Jewish People. The Jewish People have one homeland - it is Israel. They have the right by being born Jewish to visit it. It does not say that other religions may not - it just says that this fund will not pay their way.

The program also has age limits on it (18-26) and the stipulation that the participant may not have participated in a peer educational program in Israel.

So all of you who may be jealous that we Jews look after each other, get together, find some organizations to support your endeavor and you can do what ever program you wish - and I wish you all a pleasant trip.

And if you do decide to come to Israel - please look me up! I would be happy to welcome all of my friends from Airliners.net - yes, including SAS.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2002 10:53 pm
by go canada!
SAS23, you have to be for the independence of scotland to join the SNP, surely thats discrimination as well?

a question for us all:

lottery funding only applies to certain groups, is that discrimination?
only certaing roups become charities, is that discrimination?
what about saudi arabria?

if u want funding to visit israel then become an academic and apply for a grant from the AHRB, better still get a history degree and come down to the james parkes centre for jewish non jewish relations.

or work hard, earn the money and fly there urself, for a expert on israel and palestine, sas23,it seems strange that u have never visited it.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2002 11:22 pm
by Marco
Mecca is off-limits to non-Muslims. I believe there's even a sign that says this prior to entering the city.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 12:21 am
by TurbineBeaver
TNNH,

That isn't necessarily true about the Dome of the Rock. It might be so right now, but I have visited the Temple Mount and been inside the Dome of the Rock AND the Al Aksa Mosque. I am not a Jew nor a Muslim.

TB

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 2:31 am
by Guest
That isn't necessarily true about the Dome of the Rock. It might be so right now, but I have visited the Temple Mount and been inside the Dome of the Rock AND the Al Aksa Mosque. I am not a Jew nor a Muslim.

You also didn't visit during the war.  Wink/being sarcastic


RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 3:05 am
by wn700driver
Well, yes TNNH, things might be done differently during a war, lol.

ELAL744,

Does that extend to everyone here at A.net? As a matter of convenience I will be in the Medinat next month for a new project. I am looking forward to it, & hope it works out a lot better than my last trip to the holy land.

Cheers...

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 3:10 am
by manni
TNNH,

What a lame excuse to admit you're wrong.  Insane

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 3:22 am
by tbar220
So all of you who may be jealous that we Jews look after each other, get together, find some organizations to support your endeavor and you can do what ever program you wish - and I wish you all a pleasant trip.

AMEN! If a private Jewish organization wants to send Jews on a privately funded trip to Israel, they should have every right to do so, have every right to call it whatever they damn feel like, and you guys have no right to complain! Hell, if a Muslim organization did this, good for them! Some of you guys wouldn't be complaining, because you're just big hypocrits. So get over it, a private group is sending Jewish youth to Israel for a friggin ten day trip. That's it. Period. End of story.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 4:24 am
by manni
Tbar220,
If this was also directed to me, take note that...
I've never said that they do not have the right to do so.
Galaxy5 started to put this thread in the wrong direction with claiming that muslims do not allow non-muslims to enter the Dome of te Rock. Wich is false, as I and some others have stated.
END

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:11 am
by TurbineBeaver
TNNH,

"You also didn't visit during the war." Are you implying I only visited there once? I have been there countless times, over the course of several years.

TB

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:43 am
by N312RC
Well, Im Polish by decent... Does that mean that I'll be getting a letter from Warsaw confirming my free trip to Poland? Nope.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 11:43 am
by AC320
N312RC,

birthright israel is a unique partnership between the people of Israel through their government, local Jewish communities (United Jewish Communities, Keren Hayesod, and The Jewish Agency for Israel), and the following Jewish philanthropic partners: S. Daniel Abraham, The Abramson Family Foundation, Andrea and Charles Bronfman, Edgar Bronfman Sr., Richard and Rhoda Goldman Foundation, Hadassah - The Women's Zionist Organization of America, Ronald S. Lauder, The Samberg Family, Charles and Lynn Schusterman Family Foundation, Judy and Michael Steinhardt, The Wasserman Foundation, Leslie and Abigail Wexner, Karen and Gary Winnick in North America; Marc Rich in Europe; and The Ted Arison Family Foundation in Israel. Special contributions have also been made by The Avi Chai Foundation, Sandy Baklor and Arlene Kaufman, Len and Alex Blavatnik, Keren Keshet - The Rainbow Foundation, Lev Leviev and the Righteous Persons Foundation.

Not exactly government funded as your remark implies.........

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 12:02 pm
by delta-flyer
Israel is not just the Jewish homeland, as is claimed ... it's also the birthplace of Christianity and is one of the most significant sites in Islam.

Israel is the homeland of other faiths, and I don't see who claims otherwise; but that has nothing to do with the Israeli government and private organizations funding the birthright israel program. Christain and Muslim organizations are free to sponsor similar programs for their kids.

The idea of the "birthright" is that any Jew has the "right" to become a citizen of Israel just by virtue of being born a Jew, anywhere in the world.

Pete

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 1:20 pm
by Guest
Does that mean that I'll be getting a letter from Warsaw confirming my free trip to Poland? Nope.

Sucks for you.

Are you implying I only visited there once? I have been there countless times, over the course of several years.

I don't know nor really care how many times or what year you visited Israel. What I'm telling you is that you didn't visit during the present war (Inti'fadah)and if you did you most certainly did not ascend the Temple Mount. Maybe thats more clear for you.

night all,
TNNH

Just So You Know ....

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 6:29 pm
by Guest
birth·right Pronunciation Key (bûrthrt) n.
A right, possession, or privilege that is one's due by birth.
A special privilege accorded a first-born.

birthright (1.) This word denotes the special privileges and advantages belonging to the first-born son among the Jews. He became the priest of the family. Thus Reuben was the first-born of the patriarchs, and so the priesthood of the tribes belonged to him. That honour was, however, transferred by God from Reuben to Levi (Num. 3:12, 13; 8:18). (2.) The first-born son had allotted to him also a double portion of the paternal inheritance (Deut. 21:15-17). Reuben was, because of his undutiful conduct, deprived of his birth-right (Gen. 49:4; 1 Chr. 5:1). Esau transferred his birth-right to Jacob (Gen. 25:33). (3.) The first-born inherited the judicial authority of his father, whatever it might be (2 Chr. 21:3). By divine appointment, however, David excluded Adonijah in favour of Solomon. (4.) The Jews attached a sacred importance to the rank of "first-born" and "first-begotten" as applied to the Messiah (Rom. 8:29; Col. 1:18; Heb. 1:4-6). As first-born he has an inheritance superior to his brethren, and is the alone true priest.


Does that mean you must become a priest once you've been on the program?

:D


VH-ADG

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2002 11:27 pm
by jgore
Thank you guys for being supportive ! Big grin

For those that want to meet me in israel, I don't certainly have the definite departure and arrival date, because the Birthright Israel Argentina (BRIA) organization is negotiating the tickets with the airlines.
If you want to keep updated, my icq number is 55206621.

Regards

JGORE  Smile

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2002 7:49 am
by galaxy5
: Manni
Posted 2002-11-07 20:24:52 and read 92 times.
Tbar220,
If this was also directed to me, take note that...
I've never said that they do not have the right to do so.
Galaxy5 started to put this thread in the wrong direction with claiming that muslims do not allow non-muslims to enter the Dome of te Rock. Wich is false, as I and some others have stated.
END


Again i have to state that when i went to visit the "dome of the rock" AKA the AL AQSA mosque. but from my own experience there i was told that i could not enter the mosque because i am an infidel/non-muslim. so that being said i dont know if they changed the rules, i dont know,they might have but thats what happend to me.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2002 4:48 pm
by Trvlr
Hey! I have an idea! Let's blow this way out of proportion!

Seriously...I agree with Tbar...what's all the fuss?

Aaron G.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:29 am
by delta-flyer
ADG.... It seems that your very first definition fits perfectly in this context. That's the wonder (or curse?) of the English language --- multiple and ambiguous definitions can obfuscate the author's intent and lead to unnecessary debate and confusion.

A right, possession, or privilege that is one's due by birth. ... by virtue of being born Jewish, the Jewish state allows one to become a citizen of Israel and also helps underwrite free visits by Jewish youth.

There is no need to confuse such a simple concept.

Pete

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:42 am
by Alessandro
Have a good time in Israel, don´t forget to visit Lake Kinneret...

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2002 2:43 am
by TurbineBeaver
If you do go up to the Galilee, Tiberias, etc. Make sure to head north up to Kiryat Shmona, and even up towards Mt. Hermon. If you go up there, eat at a restaurant Dag Ala Dan. (Fish on the river, in english!). One of my favorite restaurants in Israel, and we would eat there whenever we'd be up north. There are also several good restaurants in Jerusalem, east Jerusalem, and Abu Gosh.

TB

TNNH, again, you're wrong. I visited there during the Intifadeh once.

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2002 3:21 am
by Guest
TNNH, again, you're wrong. I visited there during the Intifadeh once.

you didn't read the last phrase in my comments: and if you did you most certainly did not ascend the Temple Mount.

TNNH

RE: Finally I Made It To Israel Through Birthright!

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2002 8:17 am
by Guest
Delta-flyer,

As someone who is not religious I strugle with this concept of being born religious. We are not born religious, religion is a choice. We are born American, or Australian .. that is not something we can choose.





VH-ADG