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UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Mon May 12, 2003 4:36 am

Dc10guy,

Now why in the hell would someone CHOSE to be gay? It's probably one of the hardest lifes to lead to be a gay person, and why would we chose that destiny? Trust me, if it were a choice, I would have chosen the easier path. I do however chose not to lie to myself and tell myself that I'm straight. This has been a huge struggle in my life and I have had to deal with people like you all throughout my life telling me how I should feel. What I purpose is that you have no idea what you are talking about. How can you know if it is a choice or not unless you are gay yourself? I have never met a single gay person who has said he/she has chosen to be gay. It's something that happens over time, and is something that can't be helped.

BTW, you don't have to have anal sex to be gay.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Turbolet
Posts: 1867
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Mon May 12, 2003 4:53 am

Ditto, UAL747.

Sometimes I tell myself I'd much rather be straight. The future would look a lot brighter, with a loving wife, children, the security of a family. What security do I have this way? At most, if I'm lucky, someone to love me for longer than one night...
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Mon May 12, 2003 4:59 am

Windshear raised a good point that DC10guy failed to answer and I ask of others again, what would you do if your child turned out to be gay? Would he mean less to you? Would you love him unconditionally?

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Beefmoney
Posts: 1071
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Mon May 12, 2003 5:00 am

Ooooh, I probably shouldnt say anything, but I'm going to anyway.

I do NOT believe that you are "hard coded" to be gay.

I believe that homosexuals have just misinterpreted normal facets of life. Again, im not going to shove this down your throat as fact, because I am not you, and you are not me, and we dont know how the other actually feels. But, I have had "curious" thoughts, or the urge to expirement at one time or another, as ALL men have, and this is a normal part of life. But, I believe that homosexuals have taken these normal feelings, and interpreted them as "I like men". So, they have implanted the thought in their mind that they like men. So they act like it. And their interests and personality start to show it. Because, essentially, they DO love men because that is what they hve told themselves.

In my mind, it all comes down to how you interpret the normal urges of life. If you interpret it as abnormal, and that you think it means you must be gay, then you have given up, and you accept it.

It IS a choice. A misunderstood choice.
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Mon May 12, 2003 5:05 am

So tell me this...

Why am I still gay even after I told myself for 10 years that I wasn't, and never acted on it? I CHOSE not to recognize those feelings. I CHOSE not to act on those feelings, but I kept having those urges, and they only got stronger.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Mon May 12, 2003 5:08 am

Sure, it started out with just a curious thought, and I supressed it with a "you're not that way" thinking. But, by your model, this constant thinking should have taken care of the problem, but the problem only got worse. Therefore, I do not believe I chose to be this way.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Beefmoney
Posts: 1071
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 2:16 am

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Mon May 12, 2003 5:28 am

Not nessecarily.

Even though you told yourself that your not, it doesnt mean that you truely believed it. Right now, I dont think there is any way for you to reverse out of being gay. You have made it a part of yourself, and thats how its going to be.

Im not saying this is an exact science, but if gay people had some way to understand that EVERYONE has the same feelings, they would understand that its not an "Im gay" feeling, but a normal curiosity feeling. But they have interpreted it as an "Im gay" feeling. And once you plant that "I might be gay" seed in your head, it will be VERY hard to get out.

You felt an urge
Interpreted it as "Im gay"
Started believing that you were gay
thats how it stays

 
Marco
Posts: 4006
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Mon May 12, 2003 5:34 am

Even though I'm Baptist, I don't believe people choose to be gay. In fact, I thought Windshear's long post about homosexuality & spirituality was very well written. Even though I disagree with some of your points, on the whole it was great!
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
windshear
Topic Author
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Mon May 12, 2003 6:05 am

Hmm Beef...
You sure don't have any clue on human behavior or psychology!
Yup I shoved it down your throat!

I have not have doubts on whether or not I liked guys, as ALL men do, I had it with girls!
Even had sex with some, and others well just kissed and you know...
That was MY experimentation in my teens, not experimenting with guys, but with girls, and for some it's the other way around...
You must know that what you read in the ending of your post says: I'm right and you are wrong...

I have always liked guys, even as a small kid I felt more strongly for boys than girls...
When I got into my teens I was confused as all were, and I tried to focus on girls, but the only thing that really made my heart melt was guys...

One day I said to my self, ok you must now conclude this mess, and I said, ok which gender do I look after on the street and well girls? Nope
Guys you betcha!
You see what you have failed to comprehend is what I have written above, we have the same feelings as you do, but simply towards another gender than you do, so why are my feelings less natural than yours?
Because the majority feel the way you do?
Because your life style might "look" better?

Love is love, affection is affection why can't you see the beauty in two people who love each other?
And about the anal stuff, he we laugh in Europe over your anal sex laws in the US, in fact you can't find ANY recent American STRAIGHT porn movie where anal isn't featured  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

And still what does "how you do it" have to do with love???
I never question your love for your wife over what you two do in your bedroom!
I wouldn't want to have sex with a women, but I understand why you do, love is love, and sex is sex, if your experience with sex go beyond love, then maybe you haven't tasted love yet.

I have never been afraid of my thoughts, because I grew up in a country that doesn't see sex as a sin, we don't show and tell, but we know that feelings about sex and lust are not bad or dirty.
So I have never felt pushed into either direction, of course I didn't want to be different from the other guys, but the feelings I had never scared me, I just rolled with the flow...

This has never been a choice or an emotional detour, simply following my true feelings that's it!
Now you might not believe that some of us know our selves, and know the human spirit, but we do!

I can't see why we are a threat to some people, it's not like we are going to steal your girls  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Chill out! We are not going around recruiting young people, we only want to help people overcome some obstacles on their way to fully accepting who they might feel that they are...

I hardly believe that you are a frequent thinker or philosopher, but you might have stubbled over some Greek philosophy...

"Flee from the one who says he has found truth, and follow the man who says he is searching for truth..."

Life is a constant move, and you must accept that you don't know anything in order to not stop moving!

Socrates put it RIGHT ON! He said: "The only thing that I know, is that I don't know anything"
Meaning one you've found truth and accept it, with out ever being in doubt you have failed...
You might just be proven wrong, but if you are it will hurt like hell...

So if you are closed for new learning and experiences you are cheating your self...
This is not any truth because it is not a solid advice, it is so abstract, that you will either understand it now, in time or never...

Again see humans as something beautiful, and never fear what isn't local, just because it isn't just that.

Again I am totally surprised by some of your comments! It made me realize how precious the people around me, in my country and in most of the world, who see us as humans, and not as lost souls in search of life...

Shalom, fred, peace....

Boaz...
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
Beefmoney
Posts: 1071
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Mon May 12, 2003 6:18 am

Geez.

I NEVER said that I was right and you were wrong. In fact, I even mentioned that I might be wrong because I dont know exactly how you feel.

I was just throwing out a suggestion. No need to get so defensive.

Like I said, I DONT CARE if you are gay. It doesnt impact me. I was just putting for a theory in why people are gay.

Chill out.

so why are my feelings less natural than yours

Did I ever say that?

You must know that what you read in the ending of your post says: I'm right and you are wrong...

What?

Im not attacking you. But I'm going to if you dont stop getting so defensive.

Why dont I think its normal? You may have heard this at one time or another: "Tab A goes into Slot B, Tab A does not go into Outflow Valve Q."

It man and woman. Thats why we have reproductive organs that are made to work together.

I dont know why you are different. I dont claim to know exactly why. But thats how it is.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Mon May 12, 2003 7:51 am

I have said this many times before, but I will say it again. Homosexuality is neither a given at birth nor is it a choice. Rather it is the end result of your being raised and exposed to different stimuli. A baby does not have a sexual preference - to think so is inane. In fact, any sort of sexual interest will not begin until puberty. This is where equally misguided people think you choose your preference - wrong. This is when your brain reveals what style is best for you based on your life so far. Remember, our brains are designed with one overwhelming mission: the continuation of life. When needed, it will respond with the action that is best for yourself and the world.

But as in anything, humanity's humanity can sometimes blur the lines. When in desparate need, a human can find comfort in just about anything. And really guys, it's all about feeling good. Why does it matter what makes you feel good?
Dear moderators: No.
 
windshear
Topic Author
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Mon May 12, 2003 11:56 pm

Beef...
I am sorry if I seemed defensive, but really what I read between your lines, was a clear theory of yours about the "authentic" of my feelings.
That kinda hurt, when someone disregards the value of what my heart beats faster for.

Second the I am better than you thing, is again between the lines...
When saying the way I live is natural, the way you live is not natural...That is not positive neither is it approving...

I know about the tap and...
But again you focus on sex, while I struggle to send a message of love, as "we're nuts" put it so well.

The natural thing for a human is to love and be loved, people who can't share this capacity or ability usually tend to not see the need for unity, love, justice, goodness and respect for other people.

So sociopaths are what I would call unnatural, they are kind of cutting them selves out of the herd, while we simply want to fit in with the rest of the herd.
Our basic values are the same mostly our perception of good and evil is the same, our definition of love is the same, we look the same...
So when saying that still we are not natural, makes me feel helpless...

Also most of my replies where especially aimed at DC10guy...

But defensive? Hmm what if someone told you that your feelings weren't genuine, that you had "misunderstood" the tricks and trades of life, and are in a limbo like state?
What if some one simply criticized your country, wouldn't you feel kinda insulted? So yeah I might have sounded a bit defensive, but I tried my best not to.

Boaz...
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 12:16 am

Wouldn't it be interesting to see what the anti-Abortion, anti-gay, right-wing, Christian conservatives would do if it were found out that certain people, because of their makeup before birth, via DNA, were predisposed to be homosexual?

Wouldn't that be an interesting dilemma for hard-line pro-lifers, who are also against gays?
 
windshear
Topic Author
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 12:38 am

 Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin
That's like the best dilemma I've ever heard  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Well if you think of it, priests have always blessed the soldiers and their weapons before a major battle, so why not twist the "Thou shall not kill" line just a tad more, and make a quick excuse for pre-birth gay people Big grin

That's what I think would happen, it would only apply for gay people of course, but for heteros well it's sparky for that one Big grin

Boaz...
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
WiLdmanVzla
Posts: 590
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 1:39 am

let´s see...

I love airplanes so much!!!!!!!, I´ve found myself watching to the sky everytime I hear a plane flying over the city... I love planes!!!!!!!!!!!!.

The planes have a phallical form... if you watch a B757-300... well, it looks like a big erection... .

So... perhaps I must talk a lot with my therapist about it... what a big question!!!!!!!!!!!...

Do I love planes because I´m gay?... is that the real problem behind this hobby I love so much????????????????...

Well, I didn´t choose to be gay, it was something that happened without my choice (it´s so difficult to be gay in a catholic country like this one).

... but I love planes just because they can fly!!!!!!... planes are wonderful because what they can do, not because of another thing...

... be sure I have a lot to talk with my therapist!!!!!!!!!.

Have fun and regards to everyone.

*******
 
sleekjet
Posts: 2010
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2001 1:35 am

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 1:40 am

There are so many blatant lies tossed out in some of the above postings that I hardly know where to begin. It would be rather professional of some to attack the issue rather than the poster, ya know.

But let's get one thing straight (so to speak): far, far less than 10% of males are homosexual. That has been a stat created by Kinsey and jumped on by those who feel it helps their cause. VALID researchers put the percentage at 1% or less.
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
windshear
Topic Author
Posts: 2268
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 2:26 am

Sleekjet maybe in your VERY LITTLE corner of the world...

Have you NO experience in psychology or sociology?
You must know that a test where you have to ask such a question by a yes or no, to such a difficult question, and sometimes in areas where such issues are socially banned (Texas?) it is VERY hard to do a correct survey...

Your 1 percent???
Damn you sure have not seen ANY gay community or webgatherings Big grin

You know it's funny to think of Alpha 1's dilemma there, you are from the same state that has the wildest most outrageous (in my view) opinions on the death penalty, yet killing is still a sin, racism in the South is still a major thing isn't it? Yet you are Christian and Christianity should be open hearted, not close minded Sleekjet.

You turn your head but not your cheek, as you blindly see nothing but the shiny light of your Jesus, but do you listen to him? Or do you just see the light?

Do you have a gun at home Sleekjet? Or do you just bless them before battle?
Contradictions are plenty off if an abstract subject like The Bible is taken literarily.

I am sorry for this changed tone, but I too feel like I am talking to a sinner!
A man who can not see the sky for mere clouds, the forrest for trees...
You can't see beauty in it's purest form, it has to be human, clean, Bible loving and like you...

All creatures are God's creatures correct?
Why not see the beauty in the imperfect, in the perfect, the normal and the abnormal all spices are here to make our life a more intense and wonderful place to be!
Let God do his work man, if he hated gays and wanted them punished we would not be here!

The "funny" thing is that a survey here in Denmark showed aprox. 10-12% of all men were gay or saw them selves as gay, while that same survey in Texas would show another figure, the true figure wouldn't be any different! Just the freedom to be what you are in my country...

I feel so blessed after all of your comments, blessed to have such respectful people around me in my life, I have never met any one who said any negative words to me about me being gay!
But it makes me sad just to think what others are going through in other parts of the world!
And to MD90 or what your name was, I feel sorry for you, you say that you are gay, but you accept the views of others, as being your own, be your self man, why feel wrong when you feel right?

This really has been a fine example to me, of how grateful I should feel for my little corner in the world, and Sleekjet we just might end up feeling the same thing about each other, but not love of course...
Still I can see beauty in you, but just find it hard for me to accept me not being respected or accepted by you.

I think you need to show another side of your state, cuz I am really feeling the fear of Texas right now  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

LOVE LOVE LOVE....ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE, LOVE, LOVE....LOVE IS ALL YOU NEED...

Weren't they also sinners once? The Beatles Big grin

Boaz...
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 3:03 am

Don't fear Texas too much. Dallas has one of the largest Gay populations in the US, not to mention we have THE largest gay church in the US. The Cathedral of Hope. God, if sleekjet would only give us his views on this one.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 3:49 am

Like Henry Rollins once said - it's a curb THIS high. What does every guy want to do? He wants to put his pecker into something warm and moist, movie it around until he achieves desired result. Straight guys and Gay guys should not be fighting, they should be giving each other high-fives and buying drinks for each other every Saturday night!

By the way, SleekJet, enjoy your own little heaven. Gays and forward-thinkers are never going away.

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
Turbolet
Posts: 1867
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 4:00 am

Well, I didn´t choose to be gay, it was something that happened without my choice (it´s so difficult to be gay in a catholic country like this one).

I can only echo that.

I really don't believe the theory that being gay is a question of upbringing. Do you really think that I'd grow up to be gay in a country which is dogmatically Catholic? Do you really think I'd grow up to be gay with a mum who sees the word 'gay' as an insult and tries to avoid gay males as a general rule (I haven't come out to her yet)? Given my upbringing, I'd probably be the straightest guy in the world.

There's only one thing my upbringing did for me. It made my coming out a lot harder. Since I was brought up to feel that being gay is abnormal, I spent several years doing my utmost to fight that attraction for males which was deep inside me but which I didn't want to be there. It made me put on a straight show and 'fall in love' with girls. It made me scared of falling asleep because I knew I'd dream of a guy sometime and I'd feel abnormal.

Thankfully, that's over now. When I first met a gay guy on the net and was able to talk openly about my feelings and attraction, I understood that I have nothing to hide and be ashamed of. And I finally understood why all my attempted relationships with girls went horribly wrong. I'm just not compatible, that's all.

-turbolet
 
Jaspike
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 4:19 am

I'm not gay... I don't see why people make such a fuss about liking one sex instead of the one most people do. There's nothing wrong with it. It's like liking one sort of cheese but not another  Laugh out loud

Haven't seen you around for a while Turbolet, I haven't been posting much, that's probably why. Hi  Big thumbs up

Josh
 
DC10GUY
Posts: 2590
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 4:50 am

Wow, those have to be some of the most long winded posts ever!!! Get a life people !!! I have nothing against people who CHOSE to be gay however they feel they made that choice. I think being gay is all about being self centered. If one of my kids chose to be gay I would feel that I have failed to provide a positive hetro role model to him (or her) but I would still love them very much, I wouldn't feel any hate of dislike.... I really do feel sorry for most gay people because after all the fun is over they have no one to grow old with.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Jaspike
Posts: 4843
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 4:52 am

Dc10guy: I've seen some old gay people before. Ok, you don't see as many old gay people as young gay people, but there are some.

Josh
(not gay)
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4590
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 4:55 am

VALID researchers put the percentage at 1% or less.

Please supply it.


 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 5:04 am

As the world moves on towards 2004, DC10guy runs back to 1960. Look at what the doctors and psychologists of today are saying about being gay. You'll find it's quite different from your "choice" hypothesis.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
windshear
Topic Author
Posts: 2268
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 5:20 am

You guys  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
What fun we've had so far Big grin
Jaspike I just have to say that you are a fresh breath of air! Thanks mate!

Heavymetal, right on!
Turbolet I think most of us know what a struggle it is to come out, although I have never met anyone who had a bad attitude towards me or me coming out, but I have struggled my self with the thoughts of others knowing that PERSONAL thing about me, I wanted it for my self, I felt it was a private matter, but soon it turned out to resemble chains more than anything else, all that secrecy. I still don't flaunt it or flash any gay sign in anyone's face, but if they are curious and ask, then I answer them.

I have only felt this way for a little more that 1?? years now.

I have to say to DC10guy and Sleekjet you have been the worst cases I have ever met in my life...
And that is not something your should brag about, it's actually not a positive thing, closed minded never looks good.

AN-225 you said it all Big grin

All in all guys I think we have had a VERY interesting line of comments, what I have felt the most, is how wonderful it is to be able to talk to other gays, and hetro guys out side of the normal chat rooms and so on...
This forum has been the best ground for talks about OTHER stuff than just sex.
We didn't talk about planes either...Hey we just had a good time...

It touches me to think about this. Us posting thoughts about this mixed emotion subject, and although I had some nasty experiences I feel great about this overall feeling of not being alone on this site either  Smile

4holer I never got around to thank you for your earlier reply! So thank you  Big grin

I think this non aviation forum is important!
even those who hate it stop by, just to piss us off Big grin

Hey biggit up for ya guys!!!

Love ya all to bits!

Straights-> I meant that in the good way  Big grin

Boaz...
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
DC10GUY
Posts: 2590
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 5:54 am

I could be wrong but it seems like the "gay" crowd feels they must justify the homo life style ??? If its so normal why all the excuses ??? Like I said go and be as gay as you can be ... Have fun !!! Take it up the waw-zoo from as many different guys as you can !!! Just don't tell me its normal cause it ain't. That's all ....
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8633
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 5:57 am

WHERE exactly is your proof that is a choice? If you ARE NOT guy, then how do you know? Oh and hom many heterores like to stick their dong up a girl's ass?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
DC10GUY
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Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 6:08 am

727 where's your proof it ain't ??? And another thing if the girl wants it she gets it ... That's o.k. with me too ...
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 6:13 am

It's amazing how us "sub-human" gay people are sounding so much more intellectual and enlightened than those who seem to think their life is much more "normal" than ours.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 6:26 am

DC10guy, no one is making any excuses. You are the one spouting off that we are not normal. We have a right to defend ourselves. You honestly have no justification in what you are saying. Who are you to determine what is normal and what is abnormal? Like I said, read many of today's top psychologists and doctors and you will see that there is nothing abnormal about a gay human being. What is abnormal is your prejudice and close-mindedness. In my mind, you have already failed as a parent with your children by teaching them that gay people are different and somehow less normal than straight people. You have instilled a prejudice in them that is hard to reverse. Now every time they see a gay person, they are going to shy away thinking, "My dad taught me how abnormal those gay people are." I wonder how they would handle having a boss who was gay or a co-worker. Be careful what you teach your children in todays world because what you think is benign may be instilling hatred and prejudice. I feel sorry for your kids. You know why? Because my father was just like you. He just said the other day he quit going to a restaurant because "a bunch of queers owned it." I also grew up in an area where people viewed black people as different. They had their areas they lived in on the "other side of the tracks." Finally, when I was 8 years old, I moved to the city and I quickly had to learn otherwise. I'm so glad that I opened my mind because it has taught me a lot about myself and I can now have relationships with people that I once felt different towards. It saddens me to think that there are still people in this world, and even my own father who think like you do. If we could see past our own stupidity, then we might find out the world is much more beautiful than it seems.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
heavymetal
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 6:26 am

And another thing if the girl wants it she gets it ... That's o.k. with me too ...

But you agree it's not normal?

If as men nature hung that few inches*(for some more than others that's being generous) of trouble between our hips , and built the rather primordeal looking baby factory smack dab in the middle of a woman's lap for NO OTHER REASON than to see to it that small creatures just like us pop out to wet themselves and torment the cat, then it's clear that EVERYTHING outside of that function is "not normal".

Hold on to your ...uhhhh....horses, Ten. That reduces those voluptuous three-input cheerleaders with major league yah-bos to a one input snore. It rules out any kind of fun (for anyone) of the...dental...kind, and regulates lips and tounges excusively back to boring ol' burrito mashers. (No kissing either.) Forget about rubbers, fetishes, and cramming next week's gas money into Miss Allota Fahgina's leather butt floss.

So regulate our affection to 'abnormal' all you want , but realize it's a part of town we all drive through.
 
UAL747
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 6:28 am

And another thing, the correct term for "homo" is gay, lesbian, or homosexual. When you refer to us as a bunch of "homos" you might as well call a group of black people "a bunch of ni**ers." Try to be more politically correct and stray from derogatory language.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
727LOVER
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 6:29 am

DC-10guy,

where's my proof it aint?
BECAUSE I'M GAY & I DIDN"T CHOOSE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

There, I just outted myself on here! Big grin
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Guest

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 6:40 am

Well, to answer the original question: I am a plane lover and Straight.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


DeltaASA16
 
DC10GUY
Posts: 2590
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 6:46 am

Anything 2 consenting adults do in the bedroom is O.k. Being a Homo-American is a choice and is not normal, normal as in male/female making kids etc.etc. I don't mean the person isn't normal... Being gay is not "normal" and again I don't have a problem with people being that way ... Just don't tell me its normal cause it ain't ...That's all. And why do homo-Americans feel they have to justify it????
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 6:49 am

Why do close minded American's who insist on using a derogatory term for a group of people insist on forcing us to justify ourselves? You're the one who is saying we "aren't normal." I'd say that's reason enough for people on here to try and justify it.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 6:50 am

"Ain't" isn't a word.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
heavymetal
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 6:55 am

And why do homo-Americans feel they have to justify it????

Justify, no.

But explanation, especially of the common sensical variety, is the surest cure for ignorance. So we'll go right on explaining.
 
sleekjet
Posts: 2010
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2001 1:35 am

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 7:43 am

Heavymetal: Here is some of the text of the article where I gleaned the numbers. I will add further resources as time permits.

TEN PERCENT OF THE POPULATION?

Perhaps the most fascinating statistic cited (constantly and confidently) in research of homosexuality is that ten percent of the United States population is homosexual. The implication is that this is probably just as true in most other societies as well. I say this is fascinating because virtually nobody knows (or at least cites) where this statistic comes from.

The Family Research Institute asks, "How many homosexuals are there? USA Today said '25 million gay men and lesbians' (11/13/91) [i.e., about 10% of the US population]. The Washington Times said '10 percent of American men are homosexual and 5 percent of women are lesbian' (11/19/91). The American Psychological Association assures us that homosexuality is 'an orientation found consistently in about ten percent of the male population and approximately five percent of the female population' (2/6/89)."4

Just this week, as I was preparing to put this article together, I watched "Teen Connection," a public broadcast program.5 Its topic was "Sexual Orientation" with a panel consisting of a homosexual teenage boy, the boy's mother, a young lady who is a lesbian, and an adult homosexual "counselor." Within the course of an hour the ten percent figure was cited three times, being adduced as evidence of just how many people out there need our encouragement and understanding. They had a panel of phones for those who had questions or needed counseling themselves. I called in and asked them where the ten percent figure came from. The lady I spoke with did not know, and neither did another phone counselor she asked.

The truth is that this ten percent statistic comes from a report published more than 40 years ago — the famous 1948 study led by William Kinsey.6 The only problem with this report is that its findings were terribly flawed by the methodology used to collect the supposedly representative sample of the U.S. population.7

Why were his findings flawed? For several reasons, first and foremost being that approximately 25 percent of the 5,300 individuals Kinsey studied were prison inmates, "who by the nature of their confinement, couldn't have heterosexual intercourse." In addition, 44 percent of these inmates had had homosexual experiences while in prison.8 This was hardly a representative sample of the American population.

But there were other major flaws in the group selected for the research. Kinsey admitted that "several hundred male prostitutes" were used in his sample. This alone would make a major difference in his findings.9

In addition there was clearly a "volunteer bias." In attempting to select a representative group to work with, one does not merely run an ad and accept anyone who responds. Research has shown that those responding to a study as intimate as the one Kinsey was doing would not be representative of the general population. In fact, the widely renowned psychologist Abraham Maslow pointed this out to Kinsey before his findings were published, but he refused to listen.10

To make matters worse, the people who refer back to this old and flawed study do not quote it accurately. Kinsey did not say that 10 percent of the entire U.S. population was homosexual. Rather, he affirmed that ten percent of white American males were "more or less" exclusively homosexual for at least three years of their lives between the ages of 16 and 65. The statistic for females was five percent. The actual percentage of those thought to be exclusively homosexual for their entire lives was only four percent of men and two or three percent of women, all based on his allegedly representative sample of the population.11

What are the real figures as far as we can tell today? One recent study of men conducted between 1984 and 1987 by David Forman, the senior staff scientist at the Radcliffe Infirmary (Oxford, England), found that only 1.7 percent of the sample study had ever had homosexual intercourse.12 An even more recent study, conducted at the University of Chicago in 1989 and reported at the 1990 meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, resulted in a figure "less than 1% exclusively homosexual."13

Are these results significant? Well, they are significant in at least setting the record straight as to the actual scope or parameters of the debate. There is quite a difference between one or two percent of the population being homosexual as opposed to ten percent of the population. Obviously, the higher the percentage cited as being homosexual, the more influence those in the gay rights movement can wield.


II Cor. 4:17-18
 
sleekjet
Posts: 2010
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2001 1:35 am

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 7:57 am

From a doctor:

Medical Consequences of Homosexual Behavior
by David Smith, M.D.

“The homosexual activists would have you believe that homosexual behavior is just an alternate way of living that is both normal and natural. If you examine the medical consequences of homosexual behavior, you must ask the question of why something that is considered by some to be an acceptable way of living would be associated with such devastating effects on health. A survey several years ago revealed that seventy-eight percent of homosexuals have been affected at least once by a sexually transmitted disease. Although the AIDS epidemic resulted in some decline in this risky behavior, there has been an upsurge again in the risky behavior characteristic of homosexuality.

Although the percentage of homosexuals in the United States is less than five percent, they are responsible for half of the nation's cases of syphilis and more than half of the cases of gonorrhea of the throat and if intestinal infections. Major outbreaks of amebiasis and hepatitis A infections in San Francisco and Minneapolis have been associated with diseased homosexual food handlers in public restaurants. There is a twenty to fifty fold greater rate of hepatitis B among male homosexuals and a much higher rate of hepatitis A; between one-hlf to three-fourths of homosexual men have had hepatitis B. If you look at rates of chronic or recurrent infections with herpes virus, CMV, and hepatitis B, you would find them in ninety percent of homosexually active men.


II Cor. 4:17-18
 
heavymetal
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 8:17 am

Very nice, Sleek.

The first article is courtesy of one Mr. Joeseph P. Gudel, a researcher at the "Christian Research Institute", for whom he wrote that article in the summer of 1992 (Just in time for the "culture warrior" Republican Convention in Houston, I'm sure.)

He's also done exhaustive "research", by the way, in how to "cure" Muslims.

As to your "David Smith M.D.", a quick Google search shows us he is either a plastic surgeon in Georgia(in which case I'd say some of his best customers are likely gay!)...or a distinguished adjunct professor at the University of California at San Francisco. But don't get your hopes up. THAT Dr. David Smith established the Haight-Ashbury 'Free Clinic' , and is also, at a cursory glance, a big fan of humanism. Hmmmmn. Doesn't fit the profile.

Now, I DID find the text to the article that you pasted on any number of faux "Christian" websites run by people who, like you, should find hobbies, and yes, all of them credit the summary to a "David Smith M.D.". NONE (that I could find anyway) list his credentials.

You'll understand how I sense juuuuuuust a tad of bias in your "facts". Whatever. The point is made. If you're going to go racing to the "American Family Association" or "Family Research Council" websites for "facts" on homosexuality, nothing I can tell you will have the slightest effect at all. You're too far gone. Live in your bitter little world convinced you've got Christ's cell phone number to ring up "the Answers" to all things worldy.

As to statistics, I'll stick with Kinsley's 10%. And actually, based on what I've experienced, I'll up it a little. There are far too many "Must Be Discrete" types out there to ever admit to a researcher they're gay.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 8:29 am

What are the real figures as far as we can tell today? One recent study of men conducted between 1984 and 1987 by David Forman, the senior staff scientist at the Radcliffe Infirmary (Oxford, England), found that only 1.7 percent of the sample study had ever had homosexual intercourse.12 An even more recent study, conducted at the University of Chicago in 1989 and reported at the 1990 meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, resulted in a figure "less than 1% exclusively homosexual."13

Nice spin job. Allow me to point out the key terms here:

had ever had

and

exclusively

The former would rule out anyone who felt gay but was compelled not to act on it (suppressive governments, religion, etc.), and the latter is so broad that it would even rule out our own Mx5_boy! Are you really going to sit there and tell me he isn't gay?


And your "proof" that homosexuality is somehow dirtier than heterosexually is just plain stupid. Why do gay men have a higher instance of disease? Because the walls of the rectum are much thinner than those of the vaginal canal, and because horny men have a tendency not to think with their heads. And let's not forget the missionary style is not the only way to have sex with a woman. Last time I checked, they had throats and rectums too. So what are you trying to tell me? A man is only healthy when he is in the company of a woman? Do you know how dumb that sounds?
Dear moderators: No.
 
sleekjet
Posts: 2010
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 11:24 am

Heavymetal: What I will settle for as the final word on the percentage is some university research project or anything independent and free from a built-in bias either way. If I find it, I'll quickly bring to the forum, even if it means I've lost the argument and 10% happens to be right.

See, I ain't a bad guy. I'm willing to face my "friends" on this forum and admit I had a terrible misconception if that be the case. Naturally, if I find that my assertion just happened to be correct, be assured I'll post that as well.
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
sleekjet
Posts: 2010
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 12:19 pm

A half-hour of research on the 'net seems to indicate a 1992 study by Dr. Tom W. Smith of the University of Chicago's National Opinion Research Center as the latest exhaustive research into this percentage business. This study found fewer than 3% of the population of the U.S. to have engaged in exclusively homosexual conduct in the previous 12 months.

Obviously, this work is now dated. My guess would put the percentage somewhere between the 2-3% quoted in that study and the 10% claimed by the homosexual lobby.
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
MD-90
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 12:41 pm

Ual747 ain't is too a word.

Windshear, I was joking about being gay.

As for this, though, I'm staying out of it. Nothing good can come of arguing like this.
 
MD-90
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 12:49 pm

By the way, that was very thoughtfully written, Windshear.
 
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seb146
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 2:03 pm

I don't believe I am posting in a thread like this again...... sheesh.....

When I was in college, I dated women because all my male friends were doing it. It made me sad. When I was dating guys, it made me happy. I have tried it. It did not feel right. No matter how many women I get with, it will never feel as right as a man. It has been that way as long as I can remember.

I like airplanes. I enjoy watching them land and kick in the reverse thrusters. I also enjoy watching for new paint schemes, but that is very difficult at PDX.

I am gay and into airplanes, but they are two different parts of my life.

I am also into hockey and I would also like to learn how to fix my own car. So? I do not know many gay men like that. The next time you fly into PDX, try to pick me out from the spotters along Marine Drive. Am I the one with the pink triangle and rainbow flag? Get a grip.....

Windshear: Welcome to the wonderful world of non-av! Big grin

Sleekjet: Fewer than 3% have engaged in homosexual activity in the past 12 months? Make that 3% minus one..... *sigh*  Sad

GO CANUCKS!!
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Guest

RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 2:22 pm

Sleekjet says:

"""Obviously, this work is now dated. My guess would put the percentage somewhere between the 2-3% quoted in that study and the 10% claimed by
the homosexual lobby."""

_________________________________________

In Sydney i'd say it would be 15% minimum.

But taking statistics from American universitys or from the oppressed American people is a pointless act as you have to always put in a tripple factor *tell a lie* slant to any study.

It's not like asking if someone enjoys *x* brand of coffee. And remember on such a sensitive topic the reasons most people wouldn't answer truthfully are far and varied - from not accepting themselves to fearing discrimination.

DC-10Tony says this cracker:

"""I really do feel sorry for most gay people because after all the fun is over they have no one to grow old with."""
___________________________________________________

Did you learn your gospel on gays in the community from a toilet wall?

Such intelligence is astounding - and insulting - not particularly to me - but you make youself look and sound like a complete fool with that unintelligent statement.

*boom boom* mb  Big grin

40 days till *Toy Box* *yay*
 
daedaeg
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RE: Any Gay Plane Lovers Out There?

Tue May 13, 2003 10:00 pm

Mx5_boy, you dont't make yourself look too bright when you would have us believe that 15 or more out of 100 aussies are gay. can you show us a link to that study?
Everyday you're alive is a good day.

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