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GC
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USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:16 am

The USA will now seek a visa from visitors from the UK at a cost of £67 per person as well as the necessity to go to the embassy in London to obtain it. If you live in Scotland, NI or Devon for example, that's some extra travel expense and a day off work!

Add this to the daily restrictions on inflight freedoms people from the UK will start going elsewhere at this rate, Disneyworld will be mighty empty next year!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3378057.stm
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:22 am

Disneyworld will be mighty empty next year!

Great news! No more ridiculously long lines!  Big thumbs up
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
777236ER
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:24 am

How exactly do this help stop terrorism?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
GDB
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:27 am

As long as the UK government reciprocates, hey John Lindh was Taliban, he was a US citizen.
Why do I think that similar measures won't be brought in here?
 
Banco
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:37 am

Great news! No more ridiculously long lines!

Damn, that's what I was thinking! Shut up, shut up, shut up. Big grin

It won't affect everyone though:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3378057.stm

And GDB, you should have learnt by now, the British government never, ever reciprocates on things like this, they just try to take the moral high ground, much good it ever does us.  Insane
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
GC
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:41 am

BBC news just did an example of a family of four going to Florida

It was roughly:

Holiday Cost:£2000
Travel expenses to London to obtain visa:approx £130
Visas: £268

I'm just watching another report on the Scottish News. It does seem we'll have to travel to London or Belfast to get visas, even though there is a US consulate in Edinburgh.
 
fly727
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:50 am

Disneyworld will be mighty empty next year

Yeah, and the lines at Eurodisney will be huge!  Big grin
RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
707CMF
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:52 am

Well, I'm going to the US in march by British Airways.

Guess there'll be a lot of space in Y  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

No, frankly, this is ridiculous.

707
 
AlekToronto
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:56 am

The USA is totally within its right to do whatever they think needs to be done to secure its borders...however a few of the latest initiatives seem badly thought out and just seems like a bit of paranoia (to me anyways).

As for solutions..
don't travel to the USA - the Americans don't need anyone visiting (it cramps their style - if you are to believe most Yanks on this board anyways) there are SO many other places to visit that are just as interesting and much less hassle.
This year come to CANADA..Brits don't need a VISA, we love to see you guys visit and you won't be treated like a criminal when you arrive or fly here domestically!

cheers!
Alek
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:01 am

The worst thing about all of this is that the Brits are going to reciprocate and then everybody loses. Just like this fingerprinting stuff that's now going on in Brazil because of what the Americans have started doing to people arriving here from non-visa waiver countries.

I don't mind the policy of requiring biometric data in passports, but DHS should be more patient in allowing a grace period.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
Banco
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:06 am

Actually Delta I really don't think we will. Doing so would just be cutting of our nose to spite our face. Just as the UK market is extremely important to US tourism, the American market is extremely important to us. Tempting as it might be to force US citizens to do the same thing, that would just discourage you from visiting us, and let's be blunt about this, we want your dollars. If your government doesn't want our pounds, then I expect there will just be rolling of eyes and mutterings of "your loss then".


[Edited 2004-01-08 20:07:48]
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
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yyz717
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:11 am

How exactly do this help stop terrorism?

Ask Richard Reid. He's a product of the UK.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
777236ER
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:22 am

Ask Richard Reid. He's a product of the UK.

You need to BUY these visas. There's no checking. The only check is if your name is on The List. We're in for a lot of trouble if there's a suspected terrorist with the last name of Smith.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
GDB
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:22 am

It will be tempting to reciprocate, look how the threat of replying to the illegal steel tariffs magically got then lifted.
But the UK government probably won't, in principle they should, might be worth seeing how US tourism to Brazil has been affected by them replying in kind to the US action.

The government will calculate that US tourists are notoriously nervous about going abroad as it is, usually due to staggeringly ill-informed and limited reporting of foreign news, they won't want to make that situation any worse than it is already.

I think the only solution will be an EU wide response, see how that goes down in Washington.

Some events like some old British man being labeled a major criminal while on holiday in South Africa because of a FBI mistake, and the notorious Raissi case (locked up here for months as a Sept 11th suspect, released when it was clear that FBI had not a scrap of evidence and the whole case was BS), means that there is not a huge amount of confidence in the US security services.
Add the delays to BA223 due to 22 separate US agencies being involved in screening, and the likely result is people simply not bothering to visit the US, who wants to be fingered by mistake, or just have to deal with the often rude and aggressive US Immigration Officials.
Count me out.
 
jaysit
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:28 am

There are heightened airport security measures since the Richard Reid incident.

Citing one deranged individual when there are millions of Britons who have visited the United States without incident since Reid was apprehended is statistically ludicrous.

Besides, this doesn't stop the Richard Reids of the world from boarding an American jetliner in, say, Tokyo and flying to Singapore or Bangkok and causing mayhem.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Banco
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:55 am

Talking to some friends who work for airlines that fly to southern Europe from the UK, they're absolutely ecstatic about this, as they see transatlantic tourism slumping and them getting the benefit. Says it all really.

Also, I must concur with GDB - I've been to the States many, many times, and have always loved it, but having to buy a visa (which I may not have to do if it is delayed) and being treated like a criminal on arrival will make me rather unlikely to come. Now, you may say "so be it" or "who cares", but people don't like having their fingerprints taken and the rest of it, it WILL cause serious damage to your tourism industry.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
GDB
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:56 am

In one sense, you can almost understand the US reaction, one thing they found in Afghanistan was that Al-Queda had made great efforts to recruit from as many nations as possible.
Including British and Americans.
On the other hand, at some point you have to say 'are we actually playing into the terrorists hands by over-reacting?'
They seek to disrupt normal life after all, you have to be careful not to do the job for them.
Not on the scale on Sept 11th, but did people stop going into London during IRA bombing campaigns? (including 1000 and 2000lb devices). No, I certainly didn't, why let those bastards run your life? F*** 'em. I thought the same about air travel post Sept 11th too.
Most sensible people will carry on doing what they want to do travel wise, in the face of a terrorist threat, what may tip them towards making changes are excessive new rules and regulations from governments.
I don't envy the security decision makers, who wants to overlook something that could lead to another major attack?
But a dose of common sense is needed too.


 
[email protected]
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:37 am

I would rather not have to get a visa, it's a inconvenience, but that's the reality of the situation. I really don't think the US would be introducing these measures by risking alienating tourist unless there was genuine threats, which there is. Nothing will stop me travelling whether it's the USA or Brazil, a bit of minor inconvenience is a small price to pay, but then again, i live in London! Apologies to those folks living in Aberdeen or Inverness trekking down to London or Belfast for a visa.  Big grin
In Arsene we trust!!
 
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JeffM
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:39 am

Disneyworld will be mighty empty next year!

~I'm sure Disney is getting worried...
 
L.1011
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:43 am

I've got to do disagree with our excellent (not sarcasm) President here. If you're a visa waiver country now, you should get a biometric-waiver as well. We are getting paranoid and I do not support this.
 
ryangooner
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:11 am

will they still keep the 90 days visit open on the new visa or will they be nice and take it down to 14 days!

great - no spur of the moment shopping trips any more!

Ryan Hemmings
ooh to ooh to be ooh to be a gooner!
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:29 am

Citing one deranged individual when there are millions of Britons who have visited the United States without incident since Reid was apprehended is statistically ludicrous.

It's equally ludicrous is to say that this doesn't help to stop terrorism, though. One deranged individual is all it takes to bring down a plane.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
777236ER
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:30 am

It's equally ludicrous is to say that this doesn't help to stop terrorism, though.

HOW does it help stop terrorism?!
Your bone's got a little machine
 
LJ
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:31 am

Maybe I've overlooked something but where does it state (I mean official source thus not a news article) that all passports must have biometrics by October 26? The only thing I can find is that the US Department of State has postponed the requirement of machine readable passports untill October 26th for a few countries.

http://travel.state.gov/vwp.html
 
artsyman
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:43 am

If anyone is into betting, I'll take the bet that this will not happen. Secondly, it is not the US that gets the 67, it is the UK gov, but interesting that people managed to turn it into an anti-US article.

J
 
Alessandro
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:43 am

So it´s easier for Brits to go to Cuba?
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
OO-AOG
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:44 am

It's their right to transform their own country in a KGB-Style system if they want. If you don't like it, don't go. I don't like it, I won't go, that simple. They will survive, me as well  Big thumbs up
Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
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B747-437B
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:49 am

Secondly, it is not the US that gets the 67, it is the UK gov

Bullshit.

The GBP 67 is the local equivalent of USD 100 which is payable to the US Embassy in London as an "application fee". The UK Government gets nothing.

http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/visa/niv/fee.htm

Every visa applicant is required to pay a visa application fee. Payment must be made in cash at a bank using the Embassy supplied paying-in slip. If paid through Barclays Bank, no additional charges apply. Other banks may assess an administrative charge.

There will be no refund of the fee, regardless of whether the visa is ultimately issued or refused. Please note that each individual must pay a fee even if he or she is traveling with others on the same passport.



[Edited 2004-01-08 22:54:24]
 
B-707
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:52 am

Like [email protected]LHR I too live in London. So, apart from the expense it's not really a big deal for me. To be honest, I don't blame the U.S authorities. As long as you have a British passport anybody could get into the U.S without a visa. That hole has been plugged. I couldn't care less about the strict measures. As the saying goes ...... If you have nothing to hide etc....

I do feel for those who live in Scotland though,
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:09 am

HOW does it help stop terrorism?!

Because it lessens the likelihood of a terrorist getting onboard a plane. I think you already knew that though.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
777236ER
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:11 am

Because it lessens the likelihood of a terrorist getting onboard a plane.

In what way?

Because the US can make sure that no one will get on a plane who has the same name as someone on The List?

You already admitted in the other thread that intelligence was so stupidly wrong as to say Saddam had WMDs when he didn't (the alternative being Bush lied) - what makes you think the names on the list are accurate?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
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JeffM
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:19 am

I've been to Cuba this time of year... It's nice.

Give it a shot...!  Smile
 
jaysit
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:00 am

Well, Toronto is a shoo-in for New York City (ask every Hollywood film producer) and I'm always surprised why there are not more nonstops from European capitals to Vancouver. So, I guess this means Air Canada will finally come out of the red.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
QANTASforever
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:47 am

But a dose of common sense is needed too.

Speaking of common sense, have you guys heard about some of the requests made by the American government of Qantas (and perhaps other foreign airlines)?

Apparently no one is to line up to use the toilet because it's believed that a congregation of people on an airplane could somehow launch a terrorist strike.
Even the acting Prime Minister John Anderson thought that was stupid.

USA: You have a right to secure your borders and to ask foreign airlines to meet certain security standards - but please exercise a little common sense because in this instance you are only inconveniencing innocent people who want to spend money in your country, rather than terrorists who wish to destroy it.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
Continental
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:00 am

I was going to say the Disneyworld thing too! It's ridiculous, there are SO many of them there!!! They used to drive around my neighborhood in Spring Hill, FL a few years back, they were quite nice, but they were in my neighborhood for some reason? Probably lost?? And no, they weren't visiting people next door!!

BTW, 777236ER, also see: Richard Reed.
co

[Edited 2004-01-09 01:02:54]
 
777236ER
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:10 am

BTW, 777236ER, also see: Richard Reed.

This security measure wouldn't have stopped him...
Your bone's got a little machine
 
gkirk
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:04 am

Spains nice all year round, so who needs to visit the USA, Land of (No?) Freedom?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Espion007
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:30 am

You are all damn lucky.i live in the former land of the free.Everytime i travel i gotta go through billions of security measures.when i get outta collage im gonna say "HELLO CANADA!"
Snakes on a Plane!
 
Continental
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:29 am

Really?? He didn't live in the UK?? Oh well.

co
 
delta-flyer
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:02 pm

Spy... I hope they teach you how to spell in collage.

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
MxCtrlr
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 1:14 pm

Disneyworld will be mighty empty next year!

I agree with EA CO AS on this one - GREAT! No more ridiculously long lines (at WDW either, I suspect). Let's see...who's going to hurt from this? JMC, Thomas Cook and a host of other UK and Euro-based charter airlines won't be selling charters to the US (long-haul = greater profits). Yeah, I'm REAL worried about losing a bunch of whiny European tourists - NOT! With shorter lines due to less Europeans here, the slack will be picked up by Americans staying closer to home and making up the difference!

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool
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GDB
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:08 pm

Well MxCtrlr, if you want to trade stereotypical insults, we won't miss a bunch of fat, ignorant and VERY whiny Americans, cos they'll stay away if someone so much as farts overseas.


 
LH423
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:17 pm

JMC, Thomas Cook and a host of other UK and Euro-based charter airlines won't be selling charters to the US (long-haul = greater profits).

Right, because no US carrier has any foreign people on them. Are you for real?! The fact is, if a drastic amount of foreign visitors stop visiting the US it not only hurts European carriers, it hurts AA, US, UA, and DL.

ell MxCtrlr, if you want to trade stereotypical insults, we won't miss a bunch of fat, ignorant and VERY whiny Americans, cos they'll stay away if someone so much as farts overseas.

Touché !  Smile

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
L-188
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:32 pm

Guys, Policy is like a pendulum.

First it is too loose, then too strict and then goes back to too loose again.......ad nausum.


Anyway, I suspect that if a significant effect on US-UK travel is notice, you know Disney is going to be calling it's congressman.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Banco
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:05 pm

An interesting point, L-188. I wonder how much power the likes of Disney might have to influence such a thing. I used to work for a US car rental firm, and the difficulties that will be encountered by the British in the future are only the same as those that have been encountered by many other countries anyway, except for the fingerprinting thing. Anyway, the complaints were always completely ignored, although there are major differences in terms of volume, and the likelihood of illegal immigration. Still, the quadrupling of visa charges a couple of years ago was hardly likely to encourage tourism from those countries, so I would question how much influence the tourism industry might have on this.

I do know that on our side of the Atlantic, BA and Virgin are absolutely screaming about this change, as with the current currency position they were looking forward to a reasonable year. The US carriers are less geared towards transatlantic travel I know, but I can't imagine they're too thrilled about it either.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
L-188
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:19 pm

Banco,

Well it isn't only Disney, who does have a person in Washington who's sole job is to lobby congress and the FAA to maintain a 2000 foot restriction over it's theme parks.

But you add UA, AA, NW, DL, Carnaval Cruises, Royal Carribean, Sheraton Hotel, Hilton Hotel, and the other buisness that would feel a reduction in tourist traffic and you will see some influence.

Those are the people that make campaign contributions after all.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Banco
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:24 pm

Well it isn't only Disney, who does have a person in Washington who's sole job is to lobby congress and the FAA to maintain a 2000 foot restriction over it's theme parks.

Do they really?  Wow! I suppose I shouldn't be surprised - in fact I know damn well I shouldn't be surprised, but hey, we're all allowed a stupid moment.  Big grin

Yes, you're right. It'll be interesting to see what happens.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
L-188
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:27 pm

Yep.

They did a story about him on the news a couple of months ago.

He used to be a big time lobbiest up here in this state.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
L-188
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:29 pm

Yep, found a little blurb about him, Not near as complete as the whole story thought, Sorry.


Mitch Rose, who worked for years for Sen. Ted Stevens, is now a Disney lobbyist in Washington.
When you think of Disney, you probably think of Mickey Mouse. But Disney is much more than just a “Mickey Mouse” business.
It’s a major conglomerate with movies, theme parks, publishing and television networks. And because Disney has so many interests, it needs the expertise of a man who spent years serving Alaska on Capitol Hill.
“The most important thing is to educate policymakers about our company and about issues that are important to us, and also as they set policy to make sure they understand the ramifications of those policies on our company,” Rose said.
Rose who’s now 39, was born and raised in Anchorage. During the 1990s, he worked as a press secretary and then as chief of staff for Alaska’s Sen. Stevens.
That job eventually led to his work at Disney, in which he now lobbies members of Congress on different issues such as tourism, Internet privacy, copyright laws concerning movies, and even airplanes that fly over Disney theme parks.
“We’ve been working with federal officials to try to educate them about the need for our guests to enjoy their time and to not have small planes buzzing very low over the parks,” Rose said.
In three years at Disney, Rose has clearly gotten some attention. The Hill newspaper last month ranked him as one of Washington’s top lobbyists, which indicates that, when Rose talks to lawmakers about Disney, they listen.
Rose says his work with Stevens helped. “The training with Sen. Stevens was absolutely essential, because you learn that you really had to learn the issues that you were working on. It wasn’t about a wink and a nod and slapping of backs.”
The same philosophy, Rose says, applies to lobbying. It’s not about slapping backs, but instead working hard.
Rose’s father is Dave Rose, who is now trying to get the federal government to adopt an Alaska Permanent Fund-type system in Iraq


[Edited 2004-01-09 11:54:28]
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
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RE: USA Kiss The British Tourists Goodbye!

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:38 pm

Mmmm. Disney scare me sometimes.  Big grin
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.

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