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DC10GUY
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Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:54 am

The first commandment says something like "you shall have no god before me" o.k. fine. So what's up with the 2 god system ??? I.E. Jesus & God. To me the Baptists are sinning by worshiping Jesus before God. What's up with that ??? 1 god good. 2 gods bad.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
tranceport
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:49 am

It's called the doctrine of the Trinity or the Triune God. Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are all the same entity. You will find it a doctrine common to many Protestant religions. You may also hear them referred to as the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. It's hard to imagine how they can all be One, but that's how it is.
 
jessman
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:50 am

Christianity believes in the concept of the Trinity; one god in three distinct forms; God the Father; God the Son; and God the Holy Spirit (like steam, water, and ice is all one thing, or how like your mind and your body and your soul can be easily defined separate from each other).
Jesus Christ IS God; God become flesh; Emmanuel, God With Us. I will admit that is hard sometimes to comprehend. He was fully God and fully man. Humanity had chosen to separate itself from God through sin. Separation from God is death in the spiritual sense. All wo/men before and after Jesus Christ have sinned, and fallen short of the Glory of God. The punishment for that sin is Death. Christ came to pay the penalty for that sin. We accept this gift from him or we don't. We still have that free will. Even better he was resurrected. He lives. He also sent the Holy Spirit to us.

This sets up one of the most interesting beliefs of Christianity; that we are to die to self, to die to our sinful desires and live as Christ. "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me." -St. Paul
Other religions went to temples to Worship their God. Christians meet and fellowship together at churches, but the Temple of God is the body of the Christian. We are the body of Christ.

Sometimes we do not live up to that. We are still in this mortal coil. When we choose to do things our way we fail. Failure for the Christian is merely spiritual. The Christian that is killed violently doing the will of God (i.e. preaching the good news to the world) is not a failure. The Christian that fails is the one that fails to acknowledge the power of God to right all wrongs in his own time. The wo/man who seeks vengeance fails to recognize that his/her wrongs were forgiven. The wo/man who seeks vigilante justice fails to recognize that s/he was shown mercy. The wo/man who seeks to overthrow governments fails to recognize that all authority comes from God, and that God uses even evil nations and rulers to bring about his will. God raised up Babylon, and he destroyed it in his own time.

What is truth? "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me" -Jesus Christ If you don't believe in Jesus Christ you are lost. If you don't believe in Jesus Christ you believe a lie. If you don't believe in Jesus Christ you are already dead. Christ came to give you life.

I do apologize for writing so much, but I know how this Goes. You think I'm a closed minded, homophobic, violent bigot because I believe in absolute truth, and the validity of right and wrong. But you are incorrect in that. God loves everyone, and because of that I must love. For those that reject his gift, I leave it to God alone to see that justice is done.
Edited to correct a small typo and to clarify one sentence

[Edited 2004-01-15 02:54:16]
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:52 am

Yes, But that's not what the 1st commandment says.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
jessman
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:37 am

That's only because God had not become flesh yet.
Exodus 20
The Ten Commandments
1 And God spoke all these words:
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 "You shall have no other gods before [1] me.

John 1
The Word Became Flesh
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- 13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:52 am

Wow, That's kind of hard to follow dude. I didn't think you could make excuses about not following the ten commandants to the letter. I guess that's how they get around the "thou shall not kill" thing too.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
tranceport
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:57 am

I grew up in a conservative Mennonite home, and this is what was often termed one of the 'mysteries of the Gospel'. Since I grew up hearing about the Triune God from my earliest memories, it doesn't stretch me to believe in its existence. That still doesn't mean that it's easy to understand.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:05 pm

Isn't this why the Jews don't believe that Jesus is the son of god ?
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
AC320
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:33 pm

To us Jews, G-d has no corporeal form, the thought of a "son" or divine human is quite alien to us. The 1st commandment does play a role in that but it stems mostly from the Jewish view of G-d and His role in the universe and in relation to man.

[Edited 2004-01-15 04:34:16]
fuddle duddle
 
Herman
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:52 pm

dc10guy,

well i dun blame you for being puzzled. maybe this is a good time for you to learn comparatative religion- Judaism, Christianity and Islam. See which makes the most sense.


As a muslim we accept jesus as our messenger and that was only what he was just as our beloved prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h is too!

The idea of having one god makes total sense. With the greatness characters that god beholds, it is not beffiting to say that he needs a son. In fact its an insult to god! dont u think so? God is one and he does not rely on anybody for help because he is the greatest.


I hope you try to open your heart in understanding the religions i mentioned above. May we come to the truth god willing.


Amin
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:08 pm

Herman, Thank you for your sincere post. I have a friend from Pakistan that is Muslim. He has told me the same things you said. I'm not trying to open my heart to religion here. I'm trying to understand Christianity. I would think the same as you, 1 God. It seems that Christians are obsecessd with Jesus, but make little reference to God? When the 1st commandment seems clear to me.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
jessman
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:18 pm

It shouldn't be completely foreign.
Isiah 9
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

In fact, I would recommend doing a bible search for the word "fulfilled" in the new testament Gospels. and then research the prophesies that were fulfilled in him. You will find that Christ was written about long before he was born.

Psalm 22
1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from the words of my groaning?
...
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads:
8 "He trusts in the LORD ;
let the LORD rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him."
...
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted away within me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me [2] in the dust of death.
16 Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced [3] my hands and my feet.
17 I can count all my bones;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my garments among them
and cast lots for my clothing.

Matthew 27
27Then the governor's soldiers took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole company of soldiers around him. 28They stripped him and put a scarlet robe on him, 29and then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on his head. They put a staff in his right hand and knelt in front of him and mocked him. "Hail, king of the Jews!" they said. 30They spit on him, and took the staff and struck him on the head again and again. 31After they had mocked him, they took off the robe and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him away to crucify him.

The Crucifixion

32As they were going out, they met a man from Cyrene, named Simon, and they forced him to carry the cross. 33They came to a place called Golgotha (which means The Place of the Skull). 34There they offered Jesus wine to drink, mixed with gall; but after tasting it, he refused to drink it. 35When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots.[2] 36And sitting down, they kept watch over him there. 37Above his head they placed the written charge against him: THIS IS JESUS, THE KING OF THE JEWS. 38Two robbers were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. 39Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads 40and saying, "You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!"
41In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42"He saved others," they said, "but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. 43He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, 'I am the Son of God.' " 44In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

The Death of Jesus

45From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land. 46About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi,[3] lama sabachthani?"--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"[4]
47When some of those standing there heard this, they said, "He's calling Elijah."
48Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a stick, and offered it to Jesus to drink. 49The rest said, "Now leave him alone. Let's see if Elijah comes to save him."
50And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.
51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
54When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son[5] of God!"
55Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs. 56Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's sons.
 
sushka
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:20 pm

Let me add that not all Christians believe that God, The Son, and The holy Spirit are one person.
Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:23 pm

Jessman, So its 2 gods then ??? Your post is pretty amazing... you must love to type.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
VS340
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:36 pm

quick question, why does Christ ask "My god, my god why have you forsaken me?", if he himself is god?


P.S. its really nice to see thread that has honest questions and information regarding faith and not having it be flamed by anyone. I hope people can continue to respect it. thanks
 
redngold
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:57 pm

Where's Fr. Barnes when we need him? (Ctbarnes)

It's a difficult concept and that's why it's called "faith" -- believing in something that is less explainable than able to be felt within one's heart.

I tend to think of the trinity in this way, although it's just a description rather than a definition:
God the Father reigns in Heaven.
The Holy Spirit is God's power working here on earth.
Jesus was the physical manifestation of God. He was both human and God at the same time.

The most incredible thing about the trinity is that God exists in all three forms at once. If you're a scientist, think about this: there is a point where, depending on temperature and atmospheric pressure, you can simultaneously have solid, liquid, and gas forms of a chemical -- like fog over melting ice. That's sort of what God is like.

Many Christians worship the Triune God in all forms... The Holy Spirit seems to receive the least emphasis. The exception to this would be Pentocostals, who often put the most emphasis on the Holy Spirit dwelling within each individual believer.
Up, up and away!
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:07 pm

Redngold, I don't claim to be religious at all. But I do believe in God. I also think that religion & god are two different things. The 1st commandment says 1 "god" not 1 "trinity". I hear a lot of Ideas about why that is but nothing I've heard clears it up.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Beefmoney
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:13 pm

You have God.
God consists of 3 parts.
-God the Father
-God the Son
-Holy Spirit

Yes, we tend to look at them seperatly, but in reality it is just one God. Jesus is God. The Father is God. The Holy Spirit is God.

God and the trinity are not 2 different things. God IS the trinity.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:21 pm

That's not what the 1st commandment says ....
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Beefmoney
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:43 pm

Yes it does....

You explain to me how the 1st commandment contradicts what I stated above.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:51 pm

Well, I'll try. Wasn't Jesus born in Bethlehem to Mary & Josef as the son of God? Wasn't god in heaven when that happened ??? Jesus died on a cross and was resurrected 3 days later by God ??? Those are 2 places I know of where Jesus & God are 2 different people/things yet both are worshiped by Christians when the 1st commandment says NO God before God... Do you see what I'm saying ???
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
jessman
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:02 pm

No; Christ is the one true God incarnate. A human shell with the spirit mind and soul of almighty God. "The Word was God" "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us"
Behold the power of cut and paste, but I don't claim authorship of the Bible; and I think I have it clearly noted when the Bible verses start.
and from Miriam Webster.
Main Entry: in·car·na·tion
Pronunciation: "in-(")kär-'nA-sh&n
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 a (1) : the embodiment of a deity or spirit in some earthly form (2) capitalized : the union of divinity with humanity in Jesus Christ

If I placed your consciousness into another body, even if you had a different name you would still be you with another shell. Jesus simply becomes the name of God in the flesh.

Don't be too tricked by the phrase "son of God". Muslims believe that Mohammed recieved the Quran from a son of God.
Genesis 6
1 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days-and also afterward-when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

Christ is the only BEGOTTEN son of God. But Adam was the son of God; all of the angels are sons of God.
That is why the virgin birth is so important. God created the shell to carry his consciousness in the womb of Mary. Then he dwelt in that body and experienced life as his own creation from birth forward. This is not too difficult to believe as we were created in his image. This is not anymore a limit to God than to say that "If God can do anything then he can be Satan" There's a flaw in that logic in that God keeps his promises. God made a covenant with his people that outlined sin and punishment (Basically the first 5 books of the bible, or look up covenant) This covenant was called "the law" Then he prophesied through Jeremiah that the time for a new covenant had come (Jeremiah 31). But a covenant is not broken, it must be fulfilled
Matthew 5
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

I don't pretend to know the greatness of majesty of God.
 
jessman
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:11 pm

And if you believe that God is omnipresent (Christians do) he would be both places at once. There are several times when Jesus, the physical manifestation of God interacts with the more traditional disembodied God. But this is only to show that even though he is experiencing life as a human, he is still in control in the grand scheme. By definition God is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. Being in flesh did not take away two of these, but it gave those who were with him a God to whom they could truly relate, and who could truly relate to them.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:39 pm

Jessman, "Being in flesh did not take away two of these, but it gave those who were with him a God to whom they could truly relate, and who could truly relate to them." To me this is in direct conflict with the 1st comandment.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
AnsettAW
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:58 pm

Dc10guy:

It's a lot of information, but if you break it down there really isn't a conflict. Christ is the likeness of the unseen God. According to the Christian perspective, he is the subject of something like 300 Old Testament prophecies, including his birth, birthplace, childhood in Egypt, the purpose of His death, betrayal, crucifixion and resurrection -- prophecies that cover a span of 1500 years. As Jessman explained, the steam-water-ice analogy is the best way to describe the Trinity. All one God.
Snap, Krackle, and Pop are thinly veiled emblems for the Trilateral Commission.
 
tbar220
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:10 pm

What is the holy spirit? I don't understand what that part of God is.
NO URLS in signature
 
GoAround
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:25 pm

Imagine a car, or an aircraft if you will. Many parts are joined together to form one thing. This is the concept of the Holy Trinity:

Three parts make up the Trinity.

-God is the father; the creator of all.

-Jesus is the son; he was sent to bridge the gulf between humankind and God that formed as a result of original sin (that is, the sin of being human that is said to originate from Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden). This was God in flesh, sent here to suffer. We know he is human as he cries 'Eloi, eloi, lema sabachtani' before dying on the cross - a sign of human suffering.

-The Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost; the idea of God present on Earth everywhere today, in all people and in their good actions.

It's not hard to grasp when you think about it. In fact, it nearly makes sense!

GoAround
GoAround
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Religion Question

Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:28 pm

AnsettAW, With all due respect. I don't get the ice, water, steam analogy. Water can be 3 different things at 3 different times, But it can't be 3 different things at the same time. We speak of Jesus and we speak of God. That makes 2 gods. Which is wrong according to the 1st commandment.




Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
advancedkid
Posts: 740
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 1:27 pm

RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:12 am

Hi there,
There is a lot of trouble understanding
the trinity. As Sushka said, not all Christians
believe in it. Jehova's Witnesses don't.
The trinity as one preacher told me is/
was an evolved understanding or doctrine.
Not even preached by Jesus himself.
If someone takes out parts of Jesus' speach
in the NT and tells you, here this amplifys
Trinity. Well it is just an implication, that
could as well mean something else.
Take out all the words Jesus from the NT
and try to spell out the trinity. You just can't!
If someone tells you, okay, Jesus didn't say
it in the Bible but he preached it to the disciples.
Then ask them where could this be proven, when
Jesus himself said that indeed he didn't preach
anything in secret.
Well, that's what I know today.
May God lead us all to the truth. To be honest, I too
have a strong urge to study Islam as Herman said.

Take care,

Advanced
 
airmale
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RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:34 am

Thats where Christian's are wrong, there is only one God, In Judaism he's know as Elai, in Christianity as Ella in Islam as Allah, Jesus Christ(peace be upon him) was just his messenger like Moses and Mohammad (peace be upon them) as well as 147,000 others besides them that God sent to mankind at various stages which not only included Prophets, but also Saint's etc.
.....up there with the best!
 
jessman
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RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:45 am

You are a corpse, a consciousness, and a soul all at the same time. This is not a conflict.
In our limited comprehension of the infinite we describe God as best we can.
I have heard it likened to three blind men trying to describe an elephant. One encountered its trunk. He found the elephant to be strong, but intelligent, and sensitive. Another encountered the side of the elephant. He found the elephant to be like a wall, immobile, with little form. The third poor blind man, well, you can use your imagination.

Jesus Christ is not a new god, or a different god. He is just another perception of the same God. Jesus Christ is the human manifestation of God. Jesus was purely God, like the pillar of fire by night in the wilderness was purely God, like the pillar of smoke by day in the wilderness was purely God; but even then God was busy keeping the Israelite's clothes and shoes from wearing out, sending manna to eat, commanding water to flow from rocks.

The point, God doesn't have to stop being the human manifestation to manifest himself in other ways. You don't have to be 5 people to be walking, chewing gum, talking on your phone, picking your nose, and thinking about your next post on a.net. God can be God in heaven, God in human form on earth, and God everywhere in the form of the Holy Spirit all at the same time because he can. It doesn't require your understanding on how he does it. How did he speak the world into existence? How did he create life? Why did he create angels? These questions are not as important as the faith to believe that he can and he did.

Another thing, God created time. He exists before time began. He exists after time ends. He very well could have said "My God, My God why have you forsaken me" just to remind people that he already knew long before any of them were ever born. He inspired David to write about his experience on the cross many generations before.

And finally, when people kill others in the name of God or Christianity they are deceiving themselves. We are supposed to follow the example of Christ. Christ did not kill anyone, instead he raised the dead to life. Christ taught us that when we are wronged we are to forgive completely. Our offenses against him make us worthy of death, yet he forgave us.

I will qualify that with I am not a political pacifist. I am against any war that claims to be in the name of Jesus Christ or God. God is strong enough to fight his own battles, on his own terms, in his own time. However sometimes it becomes necessary for states to use force to keep its citizens from being harmed. Common defense is almost always an element in the social contracts that make government feasible. As long as men (and women as the case may be) squabble for earthly power there will be much violence and injustice in this world. But one day the prophesy in Isaiah 2 will be fulfilled "4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."
 
Marco
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RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:08 am

Thats where Christian's are wrong, there is only one God, In Judaism he's know as Elai, in Christianity as Ella in Islam as Allah, Jesus Christ(peace be upon him) was just his messenger like Moses and Mohammad (peace be upon them) as well as 147,000 others besides them that God sent to mankind at various stages which not only included Prophets, but also Saint's etc.

That's where you Airmale are wrong. Christians believe in only one God. The trinity is not three Gods. Learn more about it, or at least make an effort before posting.
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
GC
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RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:17 am

"Hi there,
There is a lot of trouble understanding
the trinity. As Sushka said, not all Christians
believe in it. Jehova's Witnesses don't.
The trinity as one preacher told me is/
was an evolved understanding or doctrine.
Not even preached by Jesus himself."

Actually, Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM", in response to the question of His identity. This was a catalyst in the Pharisees seeking to kill Him for heresy as the name, "I AM" is what God called Himself in Exodus.
 
GC
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RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:19 am

See if this link helps

http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t002.html

infact http://www.christiananswers.net is a really good site with some honest well written answers.
 
AC320
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RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:33 am

"I AM" is what God called Himself in Exodus.

Not exactly.

Moses asks G-d what name he should refer to Him as when the Hebrews ask, and G-d replies "Ehyeh-asher-ehyer. Thus you shall say to the Israelites, "Ehyeh sent me to you."

Generations of biblical scholars have attempted to come up with a clear translation of the name G-d gives himself. The most precise translation of the Hebrew comes close to something like "I shall be what I shall be"

Not a very satisfying explanation for readers, but Moses accepts.

Rabbi Gunther Plaut points out the interesting fact that although given a name, Moses never refers to it again. Therefore, this revelation was not meant for all people, Moses asked for himself and therefore the answer he receives is also for himself only.

This suggests that when one has a personal experience with G-d it is a very private affair. G-d shall be what He shall be to each and every person, and cannot be descibed accurately to others.
fuddle duddle
 
GC
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:03 am

RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:37 am

" "I shall be what I shall be"

Sounds like a paraphrase of "I am what I am" to me the meaning in the context are the same (perhaps with the exception of the tense, granted).
 
AC320
Posts: 2809
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:46 am

Ah but its the tense that's the key to interpretation.

I can tell someone that I am AC320. A very definitive statement, no room for argument there.

Or I can say I shall be AC320. Sound a little more quizzical doesn't it? What/who am I now then? Of course G-d compounds the situation by saying "I shall be what I shall be". By specifically using that as a name G-d is not saying "I am G-d", but I get the sense He is asking back to us, "Who/What am I to you?" at any given time.
fuddle duddle
 
airmale
Posts: 7128
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:24 am

Yes but Christians also consider Jesus*peace be upon him* Gods son, a fact abhorred by God in the Quran, so that makes him God like to them, you go do the learning.
.....up there with the best!
 
kilavoud
Posts: 863
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2003 7:47 pm

RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:46 am

Dear Dc10guy,

When the captain of an airplane is walking down the aisle, nobody would dare to stand in front of him. Instead everybody would make way for him. He knows the plane, how to drive it, how to bring you safe home or elsewhere. The respect is his by right.

God, who can measure the universe He made within His own span, should not have another god put in front of Him. Don't you think the respct is His by right ?

Cheers. Kilavoud.
 
DC10GUY
Topic Author
Posts: 2590
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 4:28 am

I don't think that there is any doubt that Jesus was here 2000 years ago. But now when Christians bow there heads and pray do they pray to God, Jesus, or God/Jesus/ trinity. Or better yet when they are "born again" they ask for Jesus to save them, not God or the trinity but "Jesus" This goes against the 1st commandment directly. No God before me. Jesus, Virgin Mary, they are all extra Gods. i.e. More than one. Thanks for all the sincere responses to my question. I do feel religion and belief in God are two different things.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 4:49 am

Jesus was God in flesh and blood.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
kilavoud
Posts: 863
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2003 7:47 pm

RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 4:57 am

Dc10guy

What you say seems like coming from an accurate source. How did you find these jewels ? Opening a box by yourself ?

Sincerely. Kilavoud.
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:03 am

I don't think that there is any doubt that Jesus was here 2000 years ago. But now when Christians bow there heads and pray do they pray to God, Jesus, or God/Jesus/ trinity. Or better yet when they are "born again" they ask for Jesus to save them, not God or the trinity but "Jesus" This goes against the 1st commandment directly.

Its actually called the hypostatic union:

The Incarnation is part of the heart of the Gospel message. Jesus, God's Son, came to earth as a human. This is the Christmas story. It is beyond our comprehension how this event could actually occur. The mystery of the perfect union in Jesus of God and man will remain just that, a mystery, at least until we arrive in heaven.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Marco
Posts: 4006
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 3:41 pm

RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:40 am

Yes but Christians also consider Jesus*peace be upon him* Gods son, a fact abhorred by God in the Quran, so that makes him God like to them, you go do the learning.

Yes but since the Quran came much later I don't consult it for information. I'm more interested in the Judeo-Christian faiths and what they have to say.
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
DC10GUY
Topic Author
Posts: 2590
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:35 am

Kilavoud, What are you saying ??? I can't tell if your post is an insult or a complement ???
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Beefmoney
Posts: 1071
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 2:16 am

RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:49 am

DC10guy, you will NEVER be able to understand the answer to what you are asking until you realize what we have been repeating over and over. Jesus and God are NOT 2 seperate entities. They are the same person.

when they are "born again" they ask for Jesus to save them, not God or the trinity but "Jesus" This goes against the 1st commandment directly.

No, Jesus IS God. So it doesnt contradict the commandment at all.

You clearly have a lot of trouble wrapping your mind around the "3 yet 1" concept. God is God. There is only 1 God. But there are 3 different "sections" of God, if you will.

God the Father, as we think of him, is the "section" of God that is the disembodied omnipresent being that you seem to have only connected with the term "God".

God the Son is the "section" of the one God that was sent to earth to get done what needed to be done.

The Holy Spirit is the "section" of one God that is inside all believers, and is a very personal thing.

Again, "sections" probably isnt the best term I could use, but it will do. Think of a car. It is one car. But there are different sections that do different duties. If the car said to worship no other cars but him, and you worshiped the transmission of that car, it is still part of the car. There is no contridiction.You are not worshiping another car by worshiping the drive shaft by itself.
 
redngold
Posts: 6686
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:55 am

Airmale,

Our Bible also says, in its last book:

Revelation 22:18
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.

We do not believe the Quran to be the word of God, period.
Up, up and away!
 
advancedkid
Posts: 740
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 1:27 pm

RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:19 am

Redngold,
excuse me but this passage makes me really
think. Look when I go to a Bible store and see
how many different versions of the Bible in the
English language. The Catholic Bible contains
73 books while most other Bibles 68.
Now, which Bible is the most accurate one?

Regards,

Advanced
 
Chi-town
Posts: 893
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 1:29 am

RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:22 am

DC10guy,

You are completely missunderstanding. Yes, the commandment does say "you shall have no other God's before me" but, Jesus, God, and Holy Spirt are ONE God not three. It's called the Trinity.
 
Beefmoney
Posts: 1071
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 2:16 am

RE: Religion Question

Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:24 am

Its not that one is more "accurate", but just that the catholics decided to allow more books into its version of the bible.

Before a book was allowed to be considered 'worthy' enough to be included in the bible, it was looked over and tested against certain rules. Also known as a 'canon'. If a letter or book failed this test, it was not included in the bible because we could not ensure its validity.

The Catholics just had a canon that allowed more books to be let in. They think those books are valid enough, and we dont. They failed the test.

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