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ConcordeBoy
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Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:43 am

Just thought I'd stir up some'in controversial...  Big grin

What's your thoughts on suidice: person's right? Or the ultimate sin/cowardice?

...what about under extreme circumstances (i.e., terminal disease, gross disfigurement/disability, etc)
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concordeboac
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:51 am

one word.

SELFISH.
 
KROC
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:58 am

I think its the "easy" way out, BUT if a person does not want to live, why can't they off themselves if thats what they want?

In extreme cases...one is terminal, you cath HIV/AIDS etc, I totally believe in Suicide/Assisted Suicide. You are going ot die anyway, and its a way that the person can go on his own terms without succombing to a disease, or have to degress so much that everything from feeding, cleaning, wiping his ass etc, has to be done for him.
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:06 am

I think its the easy way out. No one said life was going to be easy.
Go big or go home
 
jessman
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:06 am

Spiritually/morally I think it is blasphemy. The human asserts that he knows better than God how and when his/her life should end. Even in the case of a terminal or incurable illness or disease this is the case. God may have chosen to show his power to heal through your life, but you killed yourself. Your temporary suffering could have touched the life of another to heal millions, but you killed yourself. God promises that to those that serve him ALL things work for the good, but you killed yourself, thus proving that you don't believe what God says.

Socially, most cases of suicide aren't even in conjunction with a terminal illness. Suicide becomes a permanent solution to temporary problems. The deceased only spreads suffering to his/her immediate surroundings, sometimes creating a ripple effect that can leave several dead by suicide. Suicide is in that way the ultimate in selfishness. Families split up, friends kill themselves, all potential for good is ended usually by someone who wrongly believed that no one cared about them. People care.

Legally, you obviously want to keep a suicide from harming others. Sometimes the act is only meant to be a statement, but a jumper could land on someone else. A shooter could possibly have the bullet go through their body into someone else. The suicide by car croud could cause any number of terrible accidents depending on what he ran into (perhaps a tanker truck full of flamable or toxic substances) A person with a bomb strapped to them could blow up a bus full of innocent school children. These are obviously things that law enforcement should do all possible to prevent. However the loser who takes 200 horse tranqualizers in their bedroom for the final goodnight can't effectively be prosecuted, now can they?

So overall, I think suicide is a bad thing.
 
Greg
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:08 am

There are many for which I would encourage it....
 
N863DA
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:20 am

My faith teaches me that suicide is a bad thing - a sin, in fact.

However, in today's modern world, things are too case-by-case to make blanket judgments - at least from where I stand.

I'm inclined to agree with KROC; things can get so bad that it's a necessary evil. To [blanketly] state that, "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" is perhaps not accounting for the fact that some people ARE terminally ill, or in another state that will last, at least as far as they can see it, "forever."

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5NEOO
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:31 am

"Whatever floats your boat...."
Admit it, you could care less about the continent Africa!
 
KLM777
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:32 am

If somebody thinks he's better off dead than alive, he has, in general, the right to commit suicide in my opinion. I think it is not the ultimate cowardice, some people just have better thoughts about the future and have more hope than others do or can have. Sometimes I think that it is humiliating that we have everything available in this part of the world, and still some people just cannot be happy. However I then cool myself down and think that everyone just adapts to his or her environment and the standards of it. Some people just don't or cannot realize how bad the circumstances for a vast number of people in this world are, but I don't really blame them for that.

What I hate is that some suicidal people don't think about the consequences. For example, someone who commits suicide by jumping in front of a train. I've seen a TV program which showed a few Dutch train-drivers who were getting crazy because of the many killings they witnessed.

Therefore it must become possible for you suicidal people to die in a decent way, not by trains or high towers. Maybe for instance have a couple of talks with a psychiatrist, and if he admits you get a pill or something like that. Just an idea...

Kind regards,

Jeroen





[Edited 2004-01-22 18:33:56]
Every landing is a controlled crash
 
tbar220
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:07 am

Out of curiousity, does anybody know what country has the highest suicide rate?
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yyz717
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:48 am

It's the coward's way out. It is also selfish.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Qb001
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:01 am

Out of curiousity, does anybody know what country has the highest suicide rate?

Out of memory, I believe Hungary and Finland are up there at the top.

Unfortunately, my home province of Quebec is close to the top as well  Crying
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
ProSimTec
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:14 am

As others have said, its a long term fix for a short term problem. However, if one is suffering from a painful terminal illness, I am sympathetic and feel they have the right to make a choice to end their life. (Please don't bring up any last minute miracle drug stories, we all know how the FDA and Insurance Companies works).

What really bothers me are those who go in and shoot up the wokplace, kill their mate, or worse kill children and then kill themselves. That is a complete act of cowardice. If they are so content on killing themselves, then do it. Leave the innocent alone!
 
csavel
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:15 am

It sort of bothers me when people say it is the coward's way out. I'm not condoning it but it seems harsh and judgmental, and since we have no idea what is actually going on in their minds we are not to judge whether or not smoenone is being "cowardly" A person who commits suicide is in such obvious anguish that dying is seen as less a burden than living, that person sees dying as less likely to cause pain than living. Cowardly? I suppose you can call it that. Then it is cowardly to get in from the rain rather than to perservere and get wet. To turn on the A/C in the summer rather than suffer from the heat.

Frankly in cases of terminal illness or infirmity it is heroic. To retire at the top of one's game rather than to be a mere shell of ones self.
I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
 
KROC
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:44 am

I think its the easy way out. No one said life was going to be easy.

Nobody asked to be born either. What your point?
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:47 am

KROC- I was agreeing with you slick.

I'm saying, just because life isn't easy, doesn't mean you have to end it.
--

You didn't create yourself, who says you have the right to take your life away.
Go big or go home
 
saintsman
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:57 am

Suicide is painless......
 
mirrodie
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:59 am

My first thought when I saw this was,

"It's a dead end decision."

Well, thats no pun intended. I think is might be selfish and cowardice, but then again, I do not know what it is to be in that person's shoes and I just pray for them and their families.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
TWFirst
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:00 am

>>You didn't create yourself, who says you have the right to take your life away.<<

I say I have the right to take my life away. In fact, I say I absolutely have the right to do anything to my body that I wish, and ONLY I have that right. I believe it is totally illogical that one would not have dominion over one's own body.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
saintsman
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:09 am

On a more serious note, what about the suicide bombers? they think that they are going to a better place and will be rewarded in heaven - as if! I suppose it's all about what you ultimately believe.

Didn't I read somewhere that in some countries the penalty for attempting suicide is the death penalty?

TWFirst,
I quite agree, you have the right to do whatever you wish. You just have to face the consequences of your actions, especially bad. It's a trade off.
 
tbar220
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:35 am

Didn't I read somewhere that in some countries the penalty for attempting suicide is the death penalty?

Now that's just ironically funny, do you know if this is true and if so where it is true?
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bobrayner
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:16 am

You didn't create yourself, who says you have the right to take your life away

So, only our parents have the right over our lives?  Smile

Why does this peculiar logic only apply to suicide and not other, lesser things? You did not say "You didn't create your own body, who says you have the right to get tattoos, drink heavily, or smoke".
Cunning linguist
 
Usairwys757
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:22 am

"So, only our parents have the right over our lives?"

No, But I dont think you have the right to take your life away either. How do you benefit from killing yourself? You dont, actually you are hurting more people than you are helping.
Inactive.....
 
funflyer
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:29 am

You know, my friend just comitted sucide, I don't think he really knew what he was doing, he just could not stay off the drugs.
Who cares about status?
 
aloges
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:37 am

I think there can be a reason for anything. What if a somewhat emotional person gets fired one day, sees his/her child being killed in an accident while getting home, when at home, the wife/husband tells him/her that they're getting divorced, and while at the bar, he/she sees that his shares just became totally worthless? Basically, it's very easy to understand why that person would feel rather uncomfortable. Tune in the right song, and it may easily become too much to take.

Is suicide a sin? Sorry, but I don't live by any books.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
rockyracoon
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:50 am

People commit or consider suicide for numerious different reasons, the core examples that come to mind are (others may exist): mental illness, euthanaisa, and implusive actions.

The majority of suicide victims are/were mentally ill. We must remember and try to acknowlege mental illness as for what it is; a disease or illness. It is no different from diabetes or heart disease, whereas one illness may affect the pancreas or heart, depression and other conditions affect the brain and its chemistry. Individuals who suffer from mental illnesses did not choose to get sick nor do they usually wish to remain ill. Physically these people appear normal and healthy but they are far from it. Unfortunately because mental illnesses can be concealed they often times go unnoticed or are dismissed as false by family members and friends. Most people might not even reach out for help for they feel ashamed or embrassed. Society only strengthens these beliefs as mental health issues tend to be denied, kept in the closet per se. A combination of societal intolerances, the physical sickness, and failure for the victim to recieve proper treatment are to blame for suicides of this nature. If a person who is ill chooses to end his life, did he have a clear and un-influened minset at the time? I do not view these individuals as cowards, but as victims.

Out of my three branches I devised (these are not set in stone, take with a grain of salt) Euthanaisa is unique, for its participants choose to end their lives with a relatively stable and conscience mind. Granted, there are variables that should not be overlooked in the person's decision such as depression/mental illness brought on due to their terminal illness. For the sake of my discussion I will assume that an Euthanasia participant has retained a clear and unbiased mindset, allowing them to choose the option of assisted suicide opposed to riding the storm out albeit there is always a minuscule possibility of a recovery (it technically cannot be rulled out until the person actually passes away). It's basically a gamble in the participant's favor, forfeit the microscopic chance of suvival for a "peaceful and painless" death with minimal suffering opposed natural death. I respect one's choice to engage in euthanasia, as it should be an individual's right as a human being. The debate lies solely ethics and religious beliefs. Euthanaisa should be permitted to be executed by the government in my opion, regardless of what my moral stance is. The bottom line is the government (usa and others if applicable) must and always should turn a blind eye in matters of religion.

I don't know if "impulsive actions" is a very fitting term to decribe these examples but oh well. These are more abstract in rationale, and generally are not considered sucides. Some examples that come to mind: a soldier diving ontop of a grenade to save others, Tiananmen Square protesters in standing infront of tanks, and individuals inside the world trade center jumping to their deaths (could be a candidate for euthanasia, but more impulsive in my opinion). These individuals technically killed themselves. In most cases they sacrafice themselves in an act of passion. I respect these individuals' quasi-sucide (please, take no offence), they died for a purpose they believed in (hopefully). The question 64,000 question is why dying in valor is praise worthy while ending the pain scorned?

There's no easy YES or NO answer



sorry, I've probally restated stuff due to the time lapsed

peace
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vafi88
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 8:26 am

It's the Easy way out, it is also selfish. But, I'm not going to hold you back from doing it, your life is your own, and you live it your way.

I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
Dash8King
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:04 am

Very selfish, before killing yourself think about your friends, parents, colleages reactions. To some that would only want to do it more because they crave attention and don't get enough of it.

However I believe it is completely different if it is Euthanasia, if you are dieing for Cancer, Aids/HIV, or any other terminal illness you should be able to call it quits before someone has to assist you in every little thing.
 
L-188
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:45 pm

It is the Chicken $#!^ way out.

I have known three guys that have killed themselves, and frankly don't think too much of them now.

One of them I had to drive his frozen corpse from his uncles boat to the airplane that was going to fly him into town to get autopsyed and embalmbed.

Had his dad in the cab of the flatbed with me.....sad trip.

Don't ever wish to repeat it.

[Edited 2004-01-23 06:47:16]
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seb146
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:50 pm

I have thought about this and my opinion is: what kind of living is it when all a person can do is lie in bed. They need to be fed, washed, changed, even too far gone to hold a conversation. To me, that is not living.

I may not have much money now. The man I spent four years and all my heart loving decided he never loved me in the first place. Those are not reasons for me to die. Those are reasons to prove to me and everyone else I can do any damn thing I want within the letter of the law. There will be plenty of time for rest when I close my eyes for the last time.

GO CANUCKS!!
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Espion007
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:17 am

i will only say if it is selfish/easy way out/sinful/cool after i find out what the hell happens after we die.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:08 am

too bad that by then... doesnt really matter, does it?  Big grin
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sleekjet
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:47 am

That suicide is terrible is a given.

But I was taught growing up that it was your ticket to hell. After all, you were murdering yourself.

But now I believe it, in some cases, can be a sin that God will forgive. The Bible teaches that there is only one unforgiveable sin - blasphemy. I think it is dangerous to start limiting the grace of God.

I've known of cases where severely ill, pained people did it to not only escape the agony, but to end the burden they perceived was being placed on their family. I find it hard to condemn them. As a chronic pain patient myself, I think healthy folks don't realize the demoralizing effect of nonstop pain. It's a really difficult cross to bear.
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airplay
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:14 pm

I'm against it....unless you have someone do it for you...

 Smile
 
A330Fan1
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RE: Your Thoughts On Suicide?

Mon Jan 26, 2004 1:19 pm

Suicide is very very bad...it's very selfish, and it's no way to handle anything...there is always a way to become happier and get out of a mess or pull yourself out of deep waters, but SUICIDE is not the way...

-A330Fan1

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