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Superfly
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Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 7:34 am

Texas Church Cards People Who Patronize Adult Stores

By Lianne Hart Times Staff Writer


KENNEDALE, Texas — It's 2:30 on a Thursday afternoon, and inside a windowless adult video store a dozen people are perusing XXX-rated movie titles. Pastor Jim Norwood surmises this because he has photographed the customers' cars in the parking lot, carefully adjusting his digital camera so that each license plate is in focus.

Each car owner will soon get a postcard in the mail from Norwood's Oakcrest Family Church. On the front will be a color photo of their vehicle in the video store parking lot. On the back will be a note: "Observed you in the neighborhood. Didn't know if you were aware there is a church in the area … please stop by next time. We'd love to have you visit."

Norwood, 56, who says he is a reformed drug abuser on a mission to rid the town of sexually oriented businesses, calls the postcards an "invitation to church."

Steven Swander, a lawyer for an adult business in the area, calls it intimidation. "To me the question is, are they doing it really to communicate their message, or are they trying to blackmail people, in a way, by embarrassing them?" Swander asked.

The distinction matters little to Norwood. "I want these people to know someone is noticing them," he said, chomping on a piece of gum. "If they're going to come to my neighborhood, I have a right to go into theirs."

Norwood's campaign against adult businesses picks up on a theme that began four years ago when Kennedale — a Fort Worth suburb — annexed 58 acres of unincorporated land. With the expansion came five sexually oriented businesses that the city then tried to force out.

The businesses sued in federal court, claiming violations of free expression. Three of the businesses have since settled their claims, agreeing to close, relocate or — in one compromise — add a pizza parlor to dilute the impact of its primary line of business. Tired of the bickering, Norwood and a group of church volunteers last month armed themselves with digital cameras and began patrolling the parking lots of the two businesses still involved in the lawsuit.

At least once a week, a volunteer traces the license plate numbers to the owners of the cars using an online service that searches an automotive database for a fee. In Texas, license information is a matter of public record. So far, 300 postcards have been mailed, Norwood said.

The cost of the program, which could reach $15,000 a year, is covered by donations from local businesses and private individuals, Norwood said. Oakcrest Family Church, located in a ragged neighborhood behind the sexually oriented businesses, could not otherwise afford the expense, he said.

This neglected stretch of auto salvage yards, trailers and rickety wood-frame houses seems at first glance to be sliding into despair. But at one house, someone has resolutely planted a 5-foot wooden cross in the middle of a scraggly lawn; at another house, plastic ducks decorate a freshly swept front porch.

The sound of children's laughter filters from a playground nearby. There is life here, but outsiders don't seem to notice, said Gloria Price, who has lived in the area since 1970. "When we were unincorporated, everything just got dumped out here," she said, adding that something should have been done about the adult-oriented places "a long time ago."

Price cooks meals for the underprivileged at the church, where the congregation includes ex-cons, former drug addicts and recovering alcoholics. Norwood describes a personal history that includes charges of public intoxication, assaulting a police officer and weekends serving time in county jails. That was more than 25 years ago when, he says, he owned several auto body shops in the San Francisco area and had unlimited access to pornography through a friend who managed a chain of pornographic bookstores.

Now, when he's not counseling prisoners at the Tarrant County Jail in Fort Worth, the no-nonsense Norwood runs a flower shop steeped in the fragrance of scented candles. "I'm hard-core about being against pornography, because I know firsthand what it can lead to," Norwood said. His postcards list a schedule of church services and the church's "counseling and classes on sexual addictions."

The targets of Norwood's concern are not thrilled. "What other people do is not his business," said Roger Vallez, 47, as he left the video store. Vallez, who said he was a contract engineer, said he wouldn't welcome nude clubs in his neighborhood, though. "There ought to be a place in the middle of nowhere for these places."

A young man in a blue pickup pulled into the lot, an aluminum ladder rattling in the bed. When told of Norwood's surveillance program, his eyes darkened. "I'm just going to rent a video and go home. I'll be [angry] if I get a postcard in the mail. I think it's stupid. People aren't going to stop doing what they want to do," he said.

Norwood readily agreed. But those who dismiss his invitation to church will perhaps take their business elsewhere, "somewhere they won't be hassled," he said. "There are a lot of other places … where they can go if they want to persist in this kind of behavior."

Norwood is also counting on unhappy reactions from wives or girlfriends who get to the mail first. "When she asks, 'What were you doing over there?' they're going to have some explaining to do. If they're embarrassed by it, maybe they shouldn't be doing it in the first place."

Norwood is aiming his camera at a white sedan parked at a strip club, the driver still in the car, absently changing the knobs on the radio. Another man leaving the club notices Norwood, slips behind the wheel of his pickup and hurries out of the lot. Too late. Norwood had photographed his license plate.

John Gamboa, a lawyer for one of the businesses that has settled with the city, said Norwood's photo campaign is harmless. "If this man wants to spend money on postcards, fine. As long as he stays within the bounds of the law, he has every right to do it. What he seems to forget is as long as we stay within the bounds of the law, we have every right to be there," he said.

Norwood, a former city councilman in nearby Arlington, has no intention of stopping. As long as the sexually oriented businesses remain in Kennedale, his camera will be at the ready, he said. "Even if they move somewhere else in town, we'll keep at it. Whether it's 2 o'clock in the afternoon or 2 o'clock in the morning, there's a good possibility we'll take a picture and send a postcard."




http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2026&ncid=2026&e=1&u=/latimes_ts/20040125/ts_latimes/texaschurchcardspeoplewhopatronizeadultstores

=====================================================================


What in the hell?  Wow!




[Edited 2004-01-25 23:35:48]
Bring back the Concorde
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 7:54 am

I'm curious... Though I've never actually seen it substantiated, some people (not the least of which are celebs) claim that in some areas of the country, it's illegal to photograph someone or their property without their permission.

Can anyone corroborate/debunk that?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Guest

RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 7:54 am

Yet another example of religion being a crutch for the ignorant or intollerant.

These people want to buy porn, go home, and beat off. I fail to see what they are doing wrong. More to the point I fail to see where God says masturbation is wrong and porn is more wrong. Some say it is immoral but it takes a pretty big waste of flesh to accept someone elses morals without thinking and call them your own. The tracking them down by liscense plate may even be called stalking or some other form of harassment if they do it enough. Maybe someone should send this nut case pastor some porn since he apparently needs to relax a bit. I highly doubt this guy is pestering the porn buyers because he believes its gods will. It is almost certainly because he thinks he is better than they are so he needs to force his views of right and wrong upon them in any way possible.

As long as It is within the bounds of the law there is nothing that can be done with it but that still does not make it right. The owners of the porn stores have as much right to exist as his church, that is what makes America America. Also the buyers of porn have a right to have it.

The religious psychos need to get off their soapbox and accept that not everyone sees things the same way they do and if they want to go to church they are easy enough to find and usually open on Sunday mornings.

I think there might be something in the Universal Commercial Code (UCC) about this. If the store owners can prove Rev. Lovejoy is driving away the business just for his own shits n giggles there might be some possible legal action. I am not a lawyer so I will let one of them attack the specifics if any.

[Edited 2004-01-26 00:00:41]
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:36 am

Another example of the intolerance of certain sects within religion. We know which way this pastor leans, so we will not argue that point. Plus, I see the state of Texas is taking a woman to court for selling sex toys on the internet-a business a very good friend of mine has, and she's quite successful at it. It's this kind of intimidation and intolerance that is leading us down a path of less and less freedoms.

If someone wants to buy an x-rated video, for use in their home, and it's NOT used in concert with molestation of minors, then they should have the right to do so without some asshole pastor taking their pictures as a form of intimidation. Unfortunately, litigation costs quite a bit, and these establishments would rather move than spend an inordinate amount of money in fighting such lynch-mob tactics.

Someday, this pastor, or someone like him, will run into someone with deep pockets, and will fight them all the way to the Supreme Court. There's no doubt in my mind how even this SC would rule on anyone having their picture taken as a means of intimidation.
 
b757300
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:07 am

Alpha1, that law has been on the books in Texas for decades. It is not something passed recently. The woman was arrested to create a test case just like the setup called Lawrence v. Texas. It is a law that has rarely been enforced except when someone intentionally breaks just to make a point. Check every state and you'll find weird laws on the books with many dating back 100+ years.

Startvalve, your little comment shows just how intolerant and ignorant you can be. There are billions of people of many different religions who are not members of the extreme and involved in stupid activity. What those people are doing is childish and depending on the local ordinances, could be illegal. If they don’t like the store, they should picket and protest but not harass people engaging in a legal activity. The beauty of this country is anyone has the right to protest anything as long as they do not harass or threaten people, or break the law.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:28 am

It is a law that has rarely been enforced except when someone intentionally breaks just to make a point. Check every state and you'll find weird laws on the books with many dating back 100+ years.

So why make a test case, B757300, unless some nutcase ultra-conservative prosecutor is trying to make a name for himself? Why spend the tax dollars of Texans for something that is not the business of the state, namely the private sexual lives of citizens? Amazing how you can't critisize ANYTHING that any conservative does. You just can't bring yourself to it.
 
cba
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:47 am

"...that law has been on the books in Texas for decades. It is not something passed recently."

Same thing with the sodomy law that was struck down last summer. Just because it's been around for a while doesn't make it right.
 
BlatantEcho
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:57 am

Hum-

It's just a postcard, he isn't calling your mother.

Societal norms are challenged all the time, some people always resist. pr0n is accepted pretty much these days, a few hold outs disagree.

Who cares, my question is what kind of credibility does a reformed drug user turned pastor have, and what the hell would I want him telling me about God for?

George
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:11 am

"my question is what kind of credibility does a reformed drug user turned pastor have"

Please do not beg the question.

I wonder though, If the preacher admits to a cost "approaching" $15000 per year, what the real cost is. How many hungry and lonely people could be helped with the money?

My church has no real problem with such minor issues as X-rated movies.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
Superfly
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:15 am

IMisspiedmont:
My church has no real problem with such minor issues as X-rated movies.

Does your church show porn?
Just kidding. Big grin

This small pathetic man is an embarassment to religion and his community.
Bring back the Concorde
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:27 am

LOL Superfly. No we don't show porn, nor do we worry about what people do in their own homes.

An embarassment he is.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
sleekjet
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:38 am

Although I don't think this is the way to shut down porn shops, I do admire the guy for at least trying. Several studies show a link between porn and sexual violence, and it has ruined many, many families.

As for as what the Bible says, there is an oblique reference to "spilling semen on the ground" in Genesis 38:9. And the Lord struck the poor guy dead.

The Biblical way is purity until marriage and faithfulness throughout marriage. All the alternatives are unfulfilling at best and destructive at worst.
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
Superfly
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:46 am

Sleekjet:
Several studies show a link between porn and sexual violence, and it has ruined many, many families.

Hmmmm, what about Saudi Arabia and Afganistan under the Taliban were there was NO porn?



As for as what the Bible says, there is an oblique reference to "spilling semen on the ground" in Genesis 38:9. And the Lord struck the poor guy dead.

The Biblical way is purity until marriage and faithfulness throughout marriage. All the alternatives are unfulfilling at best and destructive at worst.


Oh Jesus!  Insane
Bring back the Concorde
 
sleekjet
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:49 am

Hmmm, I don't think I was endorsing the Taliban way of treating women, sir.
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:51 am

"Their ought to be limits to freedom" G.W. Bush. The Baptist will never stop trying to cram their version of God down everyone's throat... And they have a supporter in the white house too ....
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
Superfly
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:51 am

Sleekjet:
Christian fundamintalist and the Taliban are the same damn thing.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:01 pm

Although I don't think this is the way to shut down porn shops, I do admire the guy for at least trying.

Sure, you admire him for trying to intimidate people, probably through illegal means, which makes him no better than porn peddlers. You admire someone who has no tolerance for others who may not see the world as he does. You admire someone who wants everyone to think like him, or else he'll try to publically humiliate and intimidate him. Nice to see you like such company, Sleekjet.

Several studies show a link between porn and sexual violence, and it has ruined many, many families.

Most done by ultra-conservative groups who don't like porn. Well, I've watched porn, and I have no tendencies to sexual violence, and neither do 99% of the people who watch an X-rated movie. That's a crutch to try and intimidate those who like watching sexually explicit movies. And it also doesn't justify this kind of Gestapo-type tactic by this so-called minister.

The Biblical way is purity until marriage and faithfulness throughout marriage. All the alternatives are unfulfilling at best and destructive at worst.

The Biblical way also says that he who is without sin cast the first stone, doesn't it Sleekjet? The Bible can make awful hypocrites of people like this minister, can't it?
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:04 pm

And what is this facination with shutting down porn shops? Sex is the driving force of life, isn't it? Though I choose not to look at explicit porn, I do enjoy naked women quite much. Should my ability to touch my girlfriend be next on this mans list?
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:46 pm

Should my ability to touch my girlfriend be next on this mans list?

Who knows? There's no doubt that ultra-conservatives, who always say they loath government, have no problem wanting the government to be in our bedrooms, just to make sure we're all doing only the standard missionary position.
 
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johnboy
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:44 pm

I often wonder about the motives of people like this.

I think they do it to get noticed by higher ups or otherwise Dons of the Religious Mafia. This way, they'll get either A) more money for their "ministry" or B) a church with a higher profile, either way there's more cash lining their pockets.

It's more a power and Pride issue with these people. What really tips me off is that this wretched man is an ex-con himself. Scratch the surface a little bit, and see what bubbles up from underneath.
 
Superfly
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:42 pm

His so called church should be stripped of all tax exemptions.
Bring back the Concorde
 
777YYC
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:01 pm

Let me rephrase this for you:

Yet another example of fundamentalist religion being a crutch for the ignorant or intollerant.

Non-fundies wouldn't give a stink about who's visiting porn stores because they realize that it's none of their damn business. Pastor Norwood could be doing good in his community by tackling poverty and lobbying for universal healthcare, instead he spends 15 grand a year trying to get rid of porn.  Nuts
These "Consensual Sex is Dirty" laws are such great examples of so-called "freedom".  Insane
 
jhooper
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:17 pm

Welcome to the Bible Belt!
Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
Dash8King
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:35 pm

People who watch porn are disgusting. I don't need porn, I have a very active sexual life with a boyfriend who is 9 1/2 inches! Can't complain there!

Signed
KROC
 
GC
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:59 pm

"Christian fundamintalist and the Taliban are the same damn thing"

Here we go...everybody's right except the Christians. Do you have any idea how many Christian men, women and children are tortured, killed, mutilated and imprisoned for their faith every day? In countries such as Sudan, Indonesia, Pakistan, people are dying under horrific circumstances because they follow Jesus. The 20th Century was the heaviest time of persecution the church has ever encountered. Go do a web search, and see how many people died last year and how many are in prison, just for reading the bible. The taliban weren't just Pat Robertson clones with beards, they used to execute women in football stadiums for going to school!!

Besides you'll find real "fundamentalist Christians" who live radical lives in Africa, Asia and South America where they have far stricter morality than most western Christians, and tese are the guys under heavy persecution, in fear of their lives.

I don't agree with this pastor's methods but at least he's trying to make a difference to his society and community. Disagree with him all you like, but don't compare people with high moral standards to a vile,evil, regime.
 Angry
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:50 pm

Here we go...everybody's right except the Christians.

Uh, Gc, he said "Christian Fundamentalists". That doesn't include ALL Christians, does it? I'm a Christian, and I certainly don't count myself as a fundamentalist, with extreme views. Just as the Taliban don't speak for all Muslims, and Orthodox Jews don't speak for all Jews, Fundamentalist Christians don't speak for all Christians. So it isn't that "Christians" aren't "right", but there's certainly no doubt in the minds of many that the Fundamentalist Christians are a danger to freedom in this country.

I don't agree with this pastor's methods but at least he's trying to make a difference to his society and community. Disagree with him all you like, but don't compare people with high moral standards to a vile,evil, regime.

Why not compare him with a vile, evil regime? He and many ultra-conservative Christians are not better than the Taliban. I think it's perfectly legit to compare people like this, who try to limit peoples' freedoms to the Taliban. They're a lot alike.
 
GC
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:57 pm

"Why not compare him with a vile, evil regime? He and many ultra-conservative Christians are not better than the Taliban. I think it's perfectly legit to compare people like this, who try to limit peoples' freedoms to the Taliban. They're a lot alike."

So would you not warn someone about to run over the edge a cliff because it would limit their freedoms. The pastor isn't condeming anyone or limiting them, he's just saying, this'll do you no good, come and check out our side of things.

Again, you can't compare the Taliban with conservative Christians. Agreed, there are the vile nutjobs who attack and kill abortion doctors, but they don't follow Christ!!

However Jesus himself, through love and concern for the corruption of the society and what was being done to the people, took radical action. (overturning the money changers tables, publicly speaking against the leaders of the day). Even if we disagree with this pastor's methods we need to look at what has motivated this in his heart. Perhaps, God forbid, even give him the benefit of the doubt that he might be concerned about his community.

 
LHMark
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:23 pm

Well, we live in a time where Jenna Jamison is a mainstream celebrity. Porn just doesn't carry the stigma it once did. This pastor is probably doing little more than making people shrug.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:32 pm

Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:39 pm

The pastor isn't condeming anyone or limiting them, he's just saying, this'll do you no good, come and check out our side of things.

He can do that without photographing them, posting said photo on their house, and intimidating them in such a way. He could merely stand outside the porn shop, and say "Come to God, not to Porn", and I'd have respect for the man. But no, he tries Gestapo tactics of intimidation. Sorry, he's not someone to be lauded in this case.

Again, you can't compare the Taliban with conservative Christians. Agreed, there are the vile nutjobs who attack and kill abortion doctors, but they don't follow Christ!!

And do the Taliban REALLY follow Mohammad? Probably not-like the nutjobs you talk about, they twist religion to further something evil, just like the Taliban. So, there're really no different, are they?

Even if we disagree with this pastor's methods we need to look at what has motivated this in his heart.

If what is in his heart motivated such actions, I have no respect for the man.
 
Guest

RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:51 am

This is one rare case where I am going to agree with Alpha1.

This pastor clearly has shit in his past he feels he needs to compensate for but his trying to find the path to heaven should not intrude on the free will of others. It is not like these porn viewers are buying kiddie porn, watching it, then going out and raping children. They are buying mainstream porn going home, and beating off to it. Jcs17 and AA61hvy can probably tell us more about what goes on in these particular porn shops but there is still no crime being committed by these people. Maybe some of these guys do live at home so sending that card IS telling their mother, or maybe their wife gave up sex or has had a 3 year long headache and they would prefer not to let her know they are buying porn. None of these things are criminal which makes one wonder why does this pastor need to harass these people at all? It is pure ignorance that ANYONE would try to tell someone what they can or cannot do inside their own home within the bounds of the law. It is even more ignorant and shows the warped thought process that someone needs to hide behind religion to do this.

Being unable to get laid IS NOT A SIN. In fact masturbation is a good idea and probably keeps these guys tolerable to be around and prevents them from going out and buying a hooker, which is a crime. I hate to swing left on all of you but the benefits of masturbation far outweigh the negative effects. The only negative effects I can think of being a mess to clean up and maybe a tired right arm.

In my personal experience the more times someone mentions God or Jesus in an everyday conversation is directly proportional to the bigger the lie they are telling you or the more they have to hide. If anyone needs more investigation by the police it is this pastor.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:29 am

Why is going to a hooker a crime, if it is being done between two consentual adults? And what is this pastor´s business interfering in other people´s legal business? I have NO religion shoved down mythroat, let it be Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism or whatever. I would sue this bloke.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Guest

RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:38 am

Maybe renting a hooker is not a crime in Germany but it sure is in the United States.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:50 am

In most European countries prostitution is legal among adults. Pimping is a punishable crime. In Germany since about two years prostitutes can chose ( are supposed) to join the social security system, but it would mean that they also have to declare their income, pay social security contributions and taxes, which is why many keep their profession secret.
There are some Roman-Catholic countries, notably Ireland and Italy, where prostitution is officialy banned, but still exists, with all the side effects of a black market economy ( organized crime, pimping, corruption of law enforcement officers and exploitation).

Jan


Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
GC
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:28 am

"And do the Taliban REALLY follow Mohammad? Probably not-like the nutjobs you talk about, they twist religion to further something evil, just like the Taliban. So, there're really no different, are they?
"

Agreed, good point. But "fundamentalist Christian" is a very wide area. This is my bone of contention. You could say that Jackie Pullinger, by choosing to live with drug addicts in horrendous conditions in the walled city of Hong Kong, and giving up all the comforts of an average western life for the sake of these people and the passion she has for the gospel is being fundamental. Yet she is doing a hell of a lot of good and has more courage than most people I know of. She is sticking to the "fundamentals" of the gospel and living them out, living by faith in a very hostile environment.


My point is that I feel the pastor in question (remember I said I didn't agree with his methods) is, at best very naive, and at worst a bit of an idiot. However I would argue that we always assume the worst about people, what angered me was how quickly people jumped on this to condemn a Christian pastor when they complain themselves about intolerance and judging others. Also using the fact that was a ex-con, the point of the gospel of Jesus is that people are changed by it, for the better. So I think it's intolerant and bigoted to disregard someones credibility and integrity because of past mistakes, when you know nothing about them. If he's an idiot, then God'll deal with him.


Regarding the spiritual aspect, often pornography trivialises and cheapens sex, which is a great gift from God. The point is that sex is a spiritual union between two people, that's why the bible talks about being careful who you join with. When you have intercourse you form a covenant with that other person and become spiritually one. It's not a case of God being anti-sex or anti-fun. Porn is a bit like insisting on eating stale mouldy bread when there's a steak dinner on the table. There really is a different dimension to this approach to sex. But I digresse  Smile

 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:28 am

Being an Atheist I consider any attempt to convert me to ANY religion as an intrusion in my privacy.As long as I don´t break the laws it is MY own business if I go to see a prostitute or visit a porn shop. Nobody forces you religiouus types to go and buy porn, so leave us alone.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:30 am

What I still can't figure out is why is it that 1) selling is legal and 2) sex is legal but selling sex is ILLEGAL.
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:31 am

Kennendale is a weird town and their are some weird ass religous people in TX so this makes sense.
Go big or go home
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:36 am

When I was in Dallas, TX, two years ago for my FAA A&P exams, I found it funny that it was easier to buy a semi-auto AK47 than a bottle of beer. BTW, I´m pro gun ownership, but I don´t fancy having to join some rip-off club or showing my passport to get a bottle of watered down beer.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
bruno
Posts: 829
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2000 2:01 pm

RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:58 am

I can't believe it!
This guy is a nut!
I support the women’s movement up and down!
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:30 am

"What I still can't figure out is why is it that 1) selling is legal and 2) sex is legal but selling sex is ILLEGAL."

Spread of disease...
Go big or go home
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:23 am

Hmmm, I don't think I was endorsing the Taliban way of treating women, sir.

Say what you want... the Bible does directly endorse the mistreatment of women and minorities.

N
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:25 am

Spread of disease

So in other words, people are too stupid to take the proper precautions. We need an autocratic government to "protect us from ourselves."
 
Marco
Posts: 4006
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 3:41 pm

RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:48 am

Say what you want... the Bible does directly endorse the mistreatment of women and minorities.

The Bible is more complicated and more meaningful than you'll ever know. It is easy very (unfortunately) for people like yourself to take things out of context though.
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:20 am

I cant believe that accessing license plate data is legal like that...whats the logic behind it? What other states have means of looking up license plates like that?

Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
 
FlyboyOz
Posts: 1764
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2000 10:05 am

RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:42 am

That's FUNNY I've ever seen!

Anyway, i'm christian and i think that he is EXTREMELY stupid and nosy. People have the right to keep their secrets! According to the Bible, it said it's none of other people business and leave other people alone! They can do whatever they want. You cannot force other people to go to church and confess what what you have done. Also, Christians should not tell their friends/other people behind their back. Although, I know it is wrong to go to the adult store and look at the porn because it is sin. Everyone have SIN and therefore they're sinner...You should repent to God that you will never do it again.
The Spirit of AustraliAN - Longreach
 
MD-90
Posts: 7836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:57 am

Isn't car ownership public domain data? I'm pretty sure anyone can go down to the courthouse or municipal building and run a license plate check.

Masturbation is an addiction, and most every normal guy on the earth is addicted to it. But you can stop and most of the urges will go away, believe it or not.

Steven Swander, a lawyer for an adult business in the area, calls it intimidation. "To me the question is, are they doing it really to communicate their message, or are they trying to blackmail people, in a way, by embarrassing them?" Swander asked.

It may not be clear to others but to me this is clearly not a case of blackmail ... it's a way to invite people to church that probably wouldn't go. And yes, I personally have once been to Fantasyland in Columbus, MS. I admit that I was curious and I went with a bunch of guys from my dorm my freshman year. It was an eye-opening experience. There's a product to fufill every perversion you can think of.

I personally think that porn is a terrible scourge on humanity, and while there are Christians that believe both ways, I also think that masturbation is wrong.

Here are two Christian viewpoints relevent to the subject at hand:

http://net-burst.net/porn/peep.htm
http://net-burst.net/sexuality/masturbation.htm
 
MD-90
Posts: 7836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:05 am

Oh yeah ... if I was the pastor I wouldn't be doing that, personally.

Anyone remember the original Sister Act? In it there's a scene of Whoopi and some of the other nuns standing outside a nudie bar or porn shop or something trying to turn people away.

Also, anyone else remember that guy who was going around a while back putting bumper stickers on people's SUVs, preferably Land Cruisers, Suburbans, Tahoes, etc? I don't recall such a huge outcry over that as there has been over this issue. And the pastor isn't even doing what that other guy did.

Because it's okay to pick on people who drive SUVs because they're killing the planet and they're probably evil people. Duh.

But get in the way of someone's sex drive? Oh boy ... better watch out.
 
GC
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:03 am

RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:52 am

"the Bible does directly endorse the mistreatment of women and minorities.
"


 Laugh out loud
Actually that's the biggest load of BS I've heard yet. Have you read the whole thing?? The truth is that biblically men have responsibility for their families. If they mistreat their wives they are directly answerable to God. (or did you not see that bit). We have to give an account for how we have looked after and cared for our families. I personally don't fancy incurring his wrath!! And where is the bit it says to persecute minorities??? I think you are forgetting, Jesus was middle eastern, not Swedish, so no Arian message in there!


 
MD-90
Posts: 7836
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Texas Church Tracks Adult Store Patrons

Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:24 am

Actually the Bible was WAY ahead of its time regarding treatment of women. They were pretty repressed at that time (and gee, still are in pretty much only in nations that are definately not Christian nations) and what Jesus had to say about them was radical for the times.

Isn't it amazing how along comes the Quran ~1300 years later and calls for women to be treated a whole lot worse. Where's Gigneil's outrage over that?

And the whole minorities thing is a bunch of bilge. About the only "minority" I've ever read of in the Bible were eunuchs, and you don't see those around anymore, now do you? Again, I'm speaking for the predominately Christian nations, of course.

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