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ScottishLaddie
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What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:17 am

The topic says it all. How fast does it go? Is it comfortable etc.
PTVs?  Laugh out loud
 
Andreas
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:25 am

Why on earth do you go for that antique technology  Big grin Big grin ...look at the new ICE3 trains in Germany, going 300km/h, and that is a very fine train, very silent, very smooth and it really goes 300-315km/h. You'd love it!


...and yes, in 1st class there's PTV...sometimes it even works Big grin
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
TwinPioneer
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:36 am

I travelled on it in the early 90's. The most fantastic and comfortable train I have ever been on. The ride is so smooth. The top speed we reached was 180 mph. But that is quite nornal for the TGV AFAIK. We travelled from Rennes to Paris (return). I can't remember the exact time it took but, it seemed like 20 minutes. If you can afford it, go try :O )
 
Kay
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:44 am

I took it countless times between Lyon and Paris... well it is impressive, being seated high, seeing through such large windows a paysage going so fast.

But... you get used to it quickly...
 
traveler_7
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:47 am



Ok it is quite fast. Generally it speed depends on the line. For example
Paris (Montparnasse)-Nantes aprox. 396km could be 1h.59 min if it goes nonstop or 2h 20min (or something about it ) if it makes stops. I heard that on some lines it goes up to 340km/h but I am not sure.

It is quite comfortable on my opinion, at least for a trip up to 3 h.
(Twice I went from Nantes directly to Airport Charles de Gaulle)
I have a feeling that second class of common train has more room compare to second class TGV. And of course first class in TGV is very comfortable.
 
bobrayner
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:59 am

The topic says it all. How fast does it go? Is it comfortable etc.

It takes you from A to B without spilling your coffee. What else do you need?  Smile

PTVs?

No PTVs, although there other things like wireless internet schemes &c.

it really goes 300-315km/h.

Perhaps on the (incredibly expensive) Köln-Frankfurt neubaustrecke. There are a few more sections where 200-300km/h is practical (south of Mannheim, west of Berlin, and Hannover-Würzburg). Everywhere else, below 200km/h.

The TGV family is quite big. Thalys, Eurostar, AVE, and KTX are siblings; Acela is a distant cousin.
Cunning linguist
 
Andreas
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 3:07 am

Remember, the ICE 3 is still a rather new concept, and the number of routes is increasing...just like in France! Big grin

Everywhere else below 200km/h? Not really...where'd you get THAT?
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
petertenthije
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 3:11 am

If I had a choise between the ICE3 and the TGV, the ICE3 would win easily. That train is just great!
The first thing to remember is always treat your kite like you treat your woman.
Get inside her five times a day and take her to heaven and back!
Lord Flashheart, 1989
 
traveler_7
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 3:13 am


If I am not mistaken once TGV reached speed of 511 or 512km/h  Big thumbs up
No pax of course and it was some sort of test or running for record.
There were a documentary on "Discovery"  Smokin cool
 
AOMlover
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:23 am

The TGV is just the greatest train on Earth !!!
I'm in love with the TGV since I was born...
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/tgv/tgvindex.html

the TGV transported its 1,000,000,000 th passenger this year !
Maybe it's less comfy than the ICE3, but the cost of a TGV trainset is also much cheaper ! ! !
And the SNCF is gonna refit the interior, see the pics:
http://intermodalite.com/news/renovtgv/

With the new Lacroix interior the TGV will be a true marvel !
The speed record is 515,3km/h...and in 2001 the TGV ran from Lille to Marseille (1067,2 km) during 3h29 only !
The TGV Duplex is my favourite train ever...just superb, I love its shape, its color scheme, etc...
But the TGV is more than trainsets: it's also gorgeous trackes, especially the last one, the "LGV Méditerranée"... The landscapes are wonderful, and when you're seated on the upper deck of a TGV Duplex it's...wow !!!
As soon as you leave the Marseille tunnel you feel like you're in a bullet, then the train reaches 300km/h, and in about 3 hours you arrive in downtown Paris...
The TGV Med is quite a nice experience !
The French high speed network is the longest high speed network in the world right now but it's gonna change soon with Spain and Italy building new high speed tracks.
The TGV is superb, efficient, safe, for me it's the best train in the world.
I've never been in an ICE but I'd love to have a trip on a German high speed track. I've once been in an Italian ETR500 from Bologna to Milano. The interior was nice.
But I always get this special feeling whenever I see a TGV...
 
ScottishLaddie
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:36 am

If I used it it would be Paris to South France, Lyon or Nice. What TGV service is that? Is it a good trip? Good Scenery?
 
707CMF
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:46 am

If it is Paris-Lyon or Paris-Marseille, go for it, the travel time is very short (3hours for Marseille is quite great) -
However, don't use it to go to Nice. It needs special tracks to reach the top speed, and those tracks simply don't exist between Marseille and Nice. Which means you'll need 3 hours for Paris to Marseille, then another 3 hours from Marseille to Nice.

As of myself, I tend more and more to be fed up with the TGV, and often fly from Lyon to Paris (a discount AF LYS-CDG ticket is roughly the same price as a 1st class discount TGV ticket) - Plane will not be cheaper, ok, it will take a tad more time (airports commuting), but hey, it's a flight and I usually fly it on the JS (no plugging here)

707
 
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sebolino
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:48 am

If I am not mistaken once TGV reached speed of 511 or 512km/h

515,3 km/h exactly (320.26 mph)


 
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sebolino
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:00 am











 
AOMlover
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:01 am

Well if you've never taken the TGV, go for it even if it's to go to Nice !
I live in Toulon, on the coast right between Marseille and Nice so I know what I'm talking about.
First you'll enjoy a race in a TGV especially on the Lyon-Marseille leg. Then there are very nice sceneries alongside the track between Marseille and Nice. The journey from Marseille to Nice will last as much as the one from Paris to Marseille, but the track is along the sea so it's very very nice to watch !
 
racko
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:28 am

I've only had a ride on the Thalys and on the Eurostar. They are nice trains, but I prefer the ICE3, especially if one can get a seat behind the driver with a clear view to the cockpit and the track ahead.
 
Klaus
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:52 am

And the ICE3 sure looks more elegant...



Still, it´s cool to have several successful high-speed systems (not to forget the japanese one!).

And since they´re optimized for different mission profiles, individual performance will also differ according to the circumstances...
 
bobrayner
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:37 am

Everywhere else below 200km/h? Not really...where'd you get THAT?

I can't remember the original source, but a brief Google reveals this:
http://www.ice-fanpage.de/service/geschwindigkeitskarte.htm

It's really a complete package of train and track, as 707cmf hinted at.
Both France and Germany have good rolling stock; but one has more good infrastructure than the other.

The design of current TGV rolling stock does have one advantage compared to current ICEs (yes, there are disadvantages too) - the articulation. Less weight, better dynamics. On the other hand, it means axle loads are higher; which can be a problem if you don't invest enough in your tracks (and there are rules setting a maximum load anyway). So, that particular ICE sin is really a virtue?  Big grin

Belgium has been lucky recently; in addition to the north half of the LGV Nord it now also has the Leuven-Ans route, and the south half of the HSL-Zuid. Some of the ongoing TEN projects are pretty interesting, maybe it's worth finding a map.

I'd like to try the KTX (and something Japanese, of course), but realistically it's not possible to go this year...
Cunning linguist
 
Klaus
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:46 am

The german routes have to deal with much more densely populated areas and greater elevations; More curves, steeper segments, higher sensitivity to noise... No wonder the TGV has it easier to reach higher speeds on a larger proportion of tracks...
 
petertenthije
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:05 am

Klaus, the train you show is not the ICE3. The ICE3 has a longer nose and the lights are different.


http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=33067


http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=23709

1st class

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=23712

2nd class

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=32947

[Edited 2004-02-03 00:14:08]

[Edited 2004-02-03 00:15:14]
The first thing to remember is always treat your kite like you treat your woman.
Get inside her five times a day and take her to heaven and back!
Lord Flashheart, 1989
 
petertenthije
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:13 am

The first thing to remember is always treat your kite like you treat your woman.
Get inside her five times a day and take her to heaven and back!
Lord Flashheart, 1989
 
Lan_Fanatic
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 10:31 am

And what about the italian ETR? I've seen pictures of it and it looks as elegant as the ICE and the TGV.
 
SIMPLICITY
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 10:39 am

Andreas...
You'll get THAT in UK...Guaranteed!!  Big thumbs up

I love the TGV's...they are very comfortable and fast...which are the English ones lack of...
 
Klaus
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Petertenthije

Tue Feb 03, 2004 10:56 am

Petertenthije: Klaus, the train you show is not the ICE3. The ICE3 has a longer nose and the lights are different.

Yes it is... but it´s probably a picture of the pre-production mockup which is now in the museum. That would explain the minor changes.
 
AnsettAW
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 1:20 pm

I took the TGV Geneva - Paris several years ago...I was seated face-to-face with two professors of physics who talked non-stop on the entire leg about theories of electromagnetism and their upcoming social calendar (e.g.,famous scholars they were to have dinner with in Paris, their own divorces and love affairs). I usually enjoy hearing the dialogue of strangers but their relentless chatter became mind-numbing to everyone within earshot. I find that some of my best (and unusual) travel stories have occurred on trains, not planes. Let's face it...it's hard to express the thrill of taking a 744 or 777 to non-aviation enthusiasts...you either have the gene or don't. But everyone seems to love the train stories. The spectrum of passengers, the remote destinations, the spontaneity and unpredictability (and endless writing material!) make European train travel one of my favorite travel choices.

I'm not avidly into classical music, but if anyone is interested, check out composer Michael Nyman's "MGV: Musique a Grande Vitesse" (High Speed Music), a modern piece that was commissioned by the Festival de Lille (1993) to celebrate the inauguration of TGV service between Paris and Lille. It is a continuous piece divided into 5 regions that include rythmic, melodic and tempo changes -- suggesting the changes of landscape you experience on your journey. It is exhiliarating and reminds me of my own limited journey on the TGV! Now that I've derailed the discussion and gone completely off-track....
Snap, Krackle, and Pop are thinly veiled emblems for the Trilateral Commission.
 
UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:06 pm

No PTV's. No seat space. It sucks.
Also : runs not on electricity but on taxpayers' money.

UTA
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
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sebolino
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:15 pm

runs not on electricity but on taxpayers' money.

Like the roads you use to go to work, or the airports you need to travel, or like many things, directly or not. Taxpayer's money is nothing special, it's exactly the same as consumer's money, it's just "oriented".

By the way, I think the TGV is precisely a profitable part of the SNCF isn't it ?
 
707CMF
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:16 pm

By the way, I think the TGV is precisely a profitable part of the SNCF isn't it ?

Well, it is highly "subsidised", but yes, officially, it is profitable

707
 
UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:31 pm

The difference is that the TER's and TGV's are directly and shamelessly subsidized by the state and/or region whereas does not receive any more government subsidies.
Therefore it is unfair competition. I boycott the SNCF and when I am forced to take it, no ticket for me.
I would fly from CMF to NCY if given the chance.

UTA
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
707CMF
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 6:37 pm

I would fly from CMF to NCY if given the chance.

Do you need a pilot for that ?

707
 
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sebolino
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:14 pm

UTA,

All railways I know are or were subsidized, including Amtrak and the British railways.

Why ?

Because we need the train.

I don't see any unfair competition here. Air France is given money too when the govt want the company to go to a non-profitable airport (example: Strasbourg, a small airport but necessary for the European construction).

If the transports should go only where it's profitable, the face of the country would be horrible: 5 big towns and nothing between.
 
petertenthije
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:47 pm

Yes it is... but it´s probably a picture of the pre-production mockup which is now in the museum. That would explain the minor changes.

Sorry, I still disagree. It is a ICE-T. This is a tilting variant of the ICE.
The first thing to remember is always treat your kite like you treat your woman.
Get inside her five times a day and take her to heaven and back!
Lord Flashheart, 1989
 
AOMlover
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 9:32 pm

The ICE3/ICE T sure look nice but they've got the shape of a tapeworm lol...
It's strange but I prefer the ICE1/2 although they look more classic...

Here's a pic of my fav TGV, the Duplex
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=43227
the AVE in Spain:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=38888
and the wonderful Thalys PBKA (Paris Brussels Köln Amsterdam):
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=48354

some pics of the new interiors by Christian Lacroix, to be introduced soon on the Atlantique network:





The new Eurostar interiors designed by Philippe Starck will be introduced soon too.





 
ryanb741
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 9:38 pm

IMHO the TGV is awesome. Sure, some countries may have better/faster trains on certain routes but if you look at the TGV system as a whole it is IMHO the best (I don't have much info on the Japanese system). Plus the TGV is very cheap compared to British snail-trains
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Klaus
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Petertenthije

Tue Feb 03, 2004 9:50 pm

Petertenthije: Sorry, I still disagree. It is a ICE-T. This is a tilting variant of the ICE.

I can read just as well as you can.  Wink/being sarcastic But I´m pretty sure you´re wrong (as is the image caption).

This is the ICE-T:



Just look at the modified bogies.
 
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sebolino
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Tue Feb 03, 2004 10:47 pm

And the ICE3 sure looks more elegant

Well, I don't like the shape of the ICE nose. That's a matter of taste.
 
bobrayner
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 1:29 am

The difference is that the TER's and TGV's are directly and shamelessly subsidized by the state and/or region whereas does not receive any more government subsidies.
Therefore it is unfair competition. I boycott the SNCF and when I am forced to take it, no ticket for me.
I would fly from CMF to NCY if given the chance.


The TGV is actually profitable (unlike parts of corail or rff, which have byzantine accounting and a huge appetite for subsidies). The profit effectively offsets subsidies to other services. The TGV has a net negative subsidy.

Domestic airlines reports might show profits in their quarterly reports, but significant parts of the cost of air service are hidden from them - various layers of government pay instead.

One mode has positive subsidies. One has negative. If you oppose subsidies, which should you choose?

Look at rail services in the UK - the finances are more transparent, and there is more competition. Long-distance rail operators in the UK pay the rail authority for the privilege of running trains. That's in addition paying for infrastructure use at an appoximation to market rates (which you could argue). Hence, a negative subsidy.
Cunning linguist
 
EGGD
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 1:53 am

We onced raced the TGV through Holland (whilst travelling on the A4) in our Impreza.. Good fun as I guess the TGV is restricted to dutch railway speeds and so we wont the battle Big grin.

Does anyone know how far north it is capable of going, Copenhagen perhaps?
 
Espion007
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:04 am

if its anything like the german ICE3 trains,than its A.quiet B. comfy and C.not good to stand up while the train is tilting to one side on the tracks when the tracks curve. I do think that 3 hours is enough of those trains,no more for me.
Snakes on a Plane!
 
bobrayner
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RE: What's The TGV Like?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:54 am

Does anyone know how far north it is capable of going, Copenhagen perhaps?

Define "capable".

The main technical problem is electrification. Different countries have different electrification; standardisation is coming gradually, but the remainder of some national networks still use a different standard. It's quite a complex jigsaw. Let's give the standards alphabetical labels.  Big grin

International HST lines: A
Austria, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland: B.
Belgium, Italy: Some new HST lines are A, the rest is C.
Denmark, UK: A on certain key routes, the rest not electrified, some gaps still need to be filled.
France: Major routes are A, the rest is D or not electrified.
Netherlands: New routes are A, the rest is D or not electrified.

The Thalys that you see in .nl is capable of using all of those (with certain limitations) and could probably travel all the way from southern France to northern Sweden; but some of the routes would be a bit silly. Most other TGV siblings can't use B, so they can't cross the German border. Similarly, I think a few ICEs are equipped to travel with A, beyond the borders of Austria/Germany/Switzerland.

The main obstacle would be more practical. Some national rail authorities aren't very cooperative, and like to guard their monopolies. This problem is being dismantled - the deadline for "open rails" is approaching - but I don't think you'll see Rome-Stockholm HSTs for a while.
Cunning linguist

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