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aa777flyer
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George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:40 am

I have a feeling (and I am NOT a GW Bush supporter) that he is unbeatable in November. I personally think GW is a IDIOT! But I dont think anyone else can beat him. Opinions?
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DLKAPA
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:43 am

And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
sushka
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:43 am

I agree he is unbeatable. Thankfully I don't think he is an idiot.
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DeltaGuy
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:49 am

I think he's untouchable.......all the dems are terrible candidates. Go Bush!

DeltaGuy
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leviticus
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:50 am

Well lets just hope he is unbeatable.  Laugh out loud
 
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JeffM
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:53 am

No one is "un-beatable".

Your kidding yourself if you believe that non-sense.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:02 am

I certainly hope GWB wins, but I'd be a lot more comfortable if he were facing off against Howard "I Have a Scream" Dean.

Don't forget, Bush '41 was riding a 91% approval rating following Gulf War I and still managed to lose...albeit mostly because Perot stole many votes and delivered the presidency to Clinton.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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BR715-A1-30
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:11 am

GWB is beatable. I hope we get rid of this quack ASAP.
Puhdiddle
 
texan
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:32 am

Although in the latest CNN poll, Kerry is beating Bush by 7%, and Edwards is beating Bush 49% to 48%. Hopefully, Bush will not be our President for another four years. Course, I also hope that y'all won't send him back to us down in Texas Smile I vote for sending him to Oklahoma!

Texan
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L-188
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:40 am

That is correct, Perot is the reason Clinton was elected the first time.


I can only hope that a Kerry canidacy will have the same results as the Dole campaign

But it is a long was until November, and remember most democrats will poll higher then their real numbers right now, simply because they are getting all the news coverage through their primaries.
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bobrayner
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:07 pm

That is correct, Perot is the reason Clinton was elected the first time.

People voted for Clinton, didn't they?
Cunning linguist
 
MidnightMike
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:17 pm

Well, I hope that this is not the only reason a Democrat is going to be the Democratic nominee:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4155532/

Many voters in Democratic presidential contests scattered around the country Tuesday said they thought the economy and jobs were the top issues in the campaign and they want a strong-willed candidate who can beat President Bush, according to NBC News exit polls.

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FDXmech
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:21 pm

>>>People voted for Clinton, didn't they?<<<

Absolutedly. But many people who would've voted for Bush voted for Perot instead. Clinton received the windfall from this splintered vote.

Likewise many people who would have voted for Gore in 2000 voted for Nader instead, thereby giving G. Bush a windfall.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:32 pm

Don't forget, Bush '41 was riding a 91% approval rating following Gulf War I and still managed to lose...albeit mostly because Perot stole many votes and delivered the presidency to Clinton.

Come on. Bush 41 lost mostly because he got complacant on economic issues, and was going around telling the country "we're not in a recession" when the country was. Perot and Clinton just sealed his fate.

As for Bush being unbeatable, polls right now really do not matter that much, but the White House cannot be happy that Bush trails the top two Democrats, even in February. Bush is still the man to beat, no doubt, but the economic recovery is still tepid and jobless; the war in Iraq drags on, months after the Administration thought it would be over; we have an imminent Independent investigation on why we went to war on such faulty intel. All of this is not good news for a President-any president-looking for a 2nd term.

It seems for once the Democrats voting in the primaries took a little common sense-so far-in who they vote for. Dean got everyone's attention, but the nation needs a candidate that is strong in military and foreign affairs, and instead of a Dean or a Dukakis, Kerry is ably versed in both of those subjects. He can beat Bush. Bush is certainly not unbeatable, at least not at this point.

Again, let's ask this question in September, after the conventions, and we'll have a much better feel for what's going on.

A side note: even Rove is saying he expects an election every bit as close as 2000, as the electorate is still deeply divided.
 
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JeffM
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:38 pm

It's fun to watch all you dems get a woody over Lurch...

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Alpha 1
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:42 pm

It's fun to watch all you dems get a woody over Lurch...

Once again, JeffM adds nothing to a discussion that has been on subject but stupid, old, stale name-calling.

Why don't you for once, Jeff, say something about the subject. If you can't do us all a favor, and do something more constructive with yourself.
 
FDXmech
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:45 pm

>>>Bush is still the man to beat, no doubt, but the economic recovery is still tepid and jobless;.....<<<

I don't think this has been a joless recovery. Unfortunately the jobs are being created in other countries, not here.

I'm very keen to hear Bush's plan to stem the exporting of American jobs overseas.
Lou Dobbs on CNN's Moyeyline has been highlighting this issue for sometime. If it weren't so serious, you'd laugh at the *experts* rationalization of who this trend as being a good thing.
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Alpha 1
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Wed Feb 04, 2004 11:48 pm

I don't think this has been a joless recovery. Unfortunately the jobs are being created in other countries, not here.

That's one of the more interesting interpretations I've heard on that one, FDXMech. I'm glad to see you use your brain, unlike some other folk on here.  Smile

If it weren't so serious, you'd laugh at the *experts* rationalization of who this trend as being a good thing.

I begin to worry when the advisors around a president tell him that a half trillion deficit-for one fiscal year-and a jobless "recovery" are signs of the economy gaining strength. I think both should be warning signs that spending is out of control, and that this recovery is, at least at this moment, a paper tiger, nothing more.
 
cfalk
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:13 am

Bush is certainly not unbeatable. The budget deficit - mainly uncontrolled increases in domestic spending including crap that Bush has pushed for, and the Iraqi intel "whoopsie" are his weak points. If in the next 9 months he can show that he has made serious headway on these two issues, then he would be hard to beat. But these are tall orders - especially cutting spending in an election year.

But I hope he wins, simply because the cadidates from the Democrat side are the worst bunch I can ever remember being fielded. Bush may not be very good, but he'd be better than those monkeys.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:44 am

Bush is certainly beatable.


Although it's only november, his approval rating is the lowest it's ever been: at 49%, and polls in a matchup between he and Kerry show kerry winning by 6 percentage points in some polls, 3 percent in others.

It's a long way to november, but such low numbers for bush should tell anyone that this president is certainly *not* unbeatable.


His campaign manager has even said that they're gearing up for a very close campaign, that they're going to have to fight to get re-elected. And they've begun. Alot of sniping and alot of quotes out of context have been flying already, so, the bush capmaign is ready to tussle around and fight for a victory rather than just sail through the primaries and general election.

I think that Kerry alone could beat Bush by a slim margin. This is gonna be a close one. If Kerry puts Edwards on the ticket as his VP, I think kerry will have the election. But we'll see. Bush is not invincible.
 
727LOVER
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 am

Don't forget, Bush '41 was riding a 91% approval rating following Gulf War I and still managed to lose...albeit mostly because Perot stole many votes and delivered the presidency to Clinton.

BULLSH**

Perot stole votes from Clinton as well. And why did so many Bush voters go to Perot??? Cause he FAILED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutedly. But many people who would've voted for Bush voted for Perot instead. Clinton received the windfall from this splintered vote.

Likewise many people who would have voted for Gore in 2000 voted for Nader instead, thereby giving G. Bush a windfall.


TOTAL, TOTAL BULLSH**

Every state that Nader was competitive, Al Gore wound up winning. So, NO Nader did not cost Gore the election.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:16 am

Hey, you want to lay off the yelling and exclamation points? Maybe then someone will read what you have to say.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Superfly
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:32 am

727LOVER:
Every state that Nader was competitive, Al Gore wound up winning. So, NO Nader did not cost Gore the election.
Actually Nader did cost Gore the election. The states of New Hampshire, Ohio and Florida went to W Bush with less than 50% of the popular vote. Nader got 4-5% in each of those states. Had Nader not been on the ballot, there would have never been that fiasco in Florida becase it wouldn't have mattered. Gore would have won by a comfortable margin in the electoral college.




I hate to say it but George W Bush will win in November and here's why.

Osama Bin Laden has already been caught but they will not admit it. I am sure the Bush people will release Osama Bin Laden or should I say 'stage' a fake capturing of Osama sometime this summer or fall just in time for the November elections.
Also, there may be another terrorist attack or maybe a foiled terrorist attack then and they'll pick out some Arab guy already in our captivity to take the blame. That way, Bush can pound his cheast and claim that as a reason for his large beuracratic government agencies that strip us of our freedoms.

That what's going to happen in 2004 for W Bush to get elected in this round of elections.

Fear is what will win the White House for Bush.
Bring back the Concorde
 
727LOVER
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:37 am

Hey, you want to lay off the yelling and exclamation points? Maybe then someone will read what you have to say.

YELLING?

You mean, you can HEAR me?  Wow! Wow, you must have one mean computer!  Insane
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
727LOVER
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:44 am

Superfly,

I wouldn't put it past them, your scenario.  Sad

I disagree on Nader. You are assuming that EVERY vote for Nader would have gone for Gore. That's simply not true, in fact probably only 50% would have. At least that is what polling showed at the time.

"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Superfly
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:49 am

727LOVER:
You are assuming that EVERY vote for Nader would have gone for Gore. That's simply not true, in fact probably only 50% would have. At least that is what polling showed at the time.

You are right to a degree. Not every Nader vote would have been a Gore vote but certainly enough to swing a state in Gore's favor. In Florida, after Jeb Bush had 19,000+ votes tossed out, butterfly ballots, voters turned away, etc.., W Bush got Florida buy only 584 votes. Ralph Nader won more than 84,000 votes.
I am sure more than 584 of those 84,000 votes would have certainly gone to Gore.


Bring back the Concorde
 
N6376M
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:58 am

I think that the "perfect storm" is brewing.

- It looks like the Democrats are going to get behind a nominee early

- that nominee is Kerry and not some crazy guy like Dean

- the economy though recovering by many measures is still struggling to create jobs.

- the deficit (the long-time issue of the GOP) is at all time highs in absolute terms

- the trade deficit is huge

- GWB is pushing a social agenda that isn't supported by his own party let alone the opposition

- we've had another act of terrorism (the ricin scare); we don't have bin Laden and the anthrax sender is still out there

- the fed is still so worried about the recovery that they've kept interest rates at 40 year lows

- a single major act of terrorism in the US pretty much gives the opposition the ammunition to argue that the PATRIOT Act, the Dept of Homeland Security and the war in Iraq haven't made us any safer.

Combine with that the fact that a major act of terrorism would put the brakes on the economic recovery and I'm thinking that GWB is anything but unbeatable in Nov.

IMO two things are critical factors in the re-election:

(1) who's the dem VP
(2) will there be a major act of domestic terrorism
 
727LOVER
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 5:02 am

Yeah, but so would A LOT of those Pat Buchanan votes.

I would NOT base an argument on Florida (my home state). Big grin There was lots of cheatin' and inaccuracies going on.

I live in Hillsborough County. In neighboring Pinellas County, on election night they counted about 500 votes TWICE. Then, the next day during the recount, they discovered about 1500 votes that weren't counted that first night at all!
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 5:11 am

Osama Bin Laden has already been caught but they will not admit it.

Really? That's news to me. Care to cite a credible source, other than your own belief system?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Superfly
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 5:12 am

727LOVER:
Yeah, but so would A LOT of those Pat Buchanan votes.

Which were intended to be Gore votes. It's just hard to imagine all of those retired Jewish voters going for Buchanan and not Gore/Leibermann.  Smile
The conservative hardliners knew that W Bush was there best chance to take the White House so they went to W Bush. Buchanan wasn't hardly an issue in 2000.





N6376m:
You sound more optimistic about than me. I hope your right.

- a single major act of terrorism in the US pretty much gives the opposition the ammunition to argue that the PATRIOT Act, the Dept of Homeland Security and the war in Iraq haven't made us any safer.

Well the Democrats will certainly use that as ammunition but your also assuming that the media is fair and balanced and assuming that the voters are going to think objectivly.
The media has let the Bush administration get away with so much. It's as if the media is afraid to say anything less than praise for Bush. I think the Bush camp will run a fear campaign to win in November.
Bring back the Concorde
 
N6376M
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 5:18 am

I'm assuming that the media likes to make money by selling TV time and newspapers.

I'm assuming that the story that the incumbent president's security plans have failed would do that better than stories that say that they've worked well - nothing more nothing less.

I agree that fear tactics will be used by the GWB campaign but if we're at "DEFCON" Yellow and an attack happens, won't there be huge criticism of the system that placed us at Orange several times and nothing happened but when we weren't ready for it - WAM!

Though there are a huge number of possibilities and we can only speculate in generalities, I'm generally of the school of thought that a major successful attack on US soil hurts the Prez's re-election chances and a major successful attack abroad helps him.

Unsuccessful attacks either place help him.
 
Superfly
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 5:32 am

N6376m:
Unsuccessful attacks either place help him.

Especially if it's in a swing state.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
MD-90
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 8:49 am

This is not a jobless recovery. The stats that the Dem contenders keep throwing around are old. It takes 18-24 months for new hires to show up on payroll taxes and really be counted. The "70,000 jobs created last month" are really estimates, not actual, verifiable facts.

Liberal Yale economist Ray Fair has perfected a model that predicts election outcomes. Recently his model has been re-estimated by the well-respected Macroeconomic Advisors of St. Louis. Both models came within a few tenths of a percent of accurately predicting the popular vote in 2000. Taking into account today's strong economy, both predict a Bush victory with roughly 60 percent of the vote come November.

And this article, admittedly from the pro-Bush side: http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/moran200402040849.asp

1. Kerry has had a free media bonanza so far (he's "electable," he's a vet, he doesn't like Bush, etc)
2. Press scrutiny WILL follow (esp. on his voting record)
3. Bush has $100 million behind him
4. The culture war narrows the margins either candidate can actually generate. (people who go to church tend to vote conservative, people who don't tend to vote liberal ... it's the best indicator of votes other than party registration).

Basically it's the more liberal coasts and big cities versus the more conservative interior, rural areas, and towns.


But no, he is not unbeatable. I think he'll win, especially because the Democratic contenders are all a bunch of nuts (esp concerning the economy and terrorism), but an upset could happen.
 
Continental
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 8:56 am

I think he may be unbeatable if he's able to brainwash the idiots in America once again. He'll hold up a mini American flag over the WTC site sometime around the convention with the sunset in the background, and all the idiots will say, 'wow, what a fantastic president.' Either that or he'll say that we're still winning the war in Iraq/terrorism, and his approval rating will leap forward...

co
 
Superfly
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 9:24 am

Continental:
I could see it already.  Sad

Like I said before, fear will be Bush's winning strategy.
Bring back the Concorde
 
L-188
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 10:28 am

He is hardly unbeatable.

It will come down to a debate on which is the worst canidate.

Frankly for me, Kerry in the white house, is too bitter of a pill to swallow.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:43 pm

Why would anyone want to vote for Bush?  Sad
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:00 am

Seems Bush would be easily overcome in any debate with Kerry, should Kerry be the candidate. First, he can't speak properly. Second, what is his comeback when Kerry points out:

-- No WMD found
-- No Bin Laden found
-- Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, etc.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:09 am

Why would anyone want to vote for Bush?

Because while I don't agree with him 100%, he's still better than any Democratic candidate.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
donder10
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:00 am

Unemployment is a laggard in the economic cycle.Job creation will pick up around the time of the election or so.
 
MD-90
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RE: George Bush Unbeatable In Nov?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:14 am

Ditto EA CO AS.

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