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How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:51 am
by Vio
What do you guys think? How can we better spend our surplus?

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:45 am
by jutes85
Military.

Not just because to protect ourselves, not to start wars, but I would like to see some improvements e.g. outdated equipment etc.....

I'm just about "enrolled" in the Air Force and I would like to fix aircraft that are not over 30 years old.

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:51 am
by SlamClick
Expand the Snowbirds airshow schedule. We miss them down here.


RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:53 am
by StarFlyer
Maybe just use it to lower income tax? This would generate more spending which would then generate more income, more spending a.s.o. Would also make Canada more interesting for foreign investors!

But who am I to speak... I am not Canadian!  Big grin

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:00 am
by jutes85
When you increase taxes, the people suffer, when you lower taxes, the government suffers...e.g. US.

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:14 am
by Goose
Lower taxes. Even a fractional amount would help the economy.

More money for cities and infrastructure.

Reorganization and trimming of certain areas in the military - simply throwing money at it will not help.

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:21 am
by skytrain
We could always use the cash to pay down the deficit left over from the Trudeau days!

Not very interesting but it's an option!  Laugh out loud

Cheers - Skytrain.

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:22 am
by yyz717
Use 50% to pay off the debt. Return the other 50% to Cdn taxpayers as a refund with an apology letter for taking it in the first place.

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:26 am
by captaingomes
Neil, think of how much it would cost to write that letter? You'd need one person to write it, another to proof read it, then a third to proof read it, then make corrections, then proof read the corrected letter. Keep in mind, that instead of actually having somebody who works for the government, a big fee could be paid for a consultant who is "in" with the Liberal Party to write the letter. Then you have paper costs for each letter mailed, etc etc. I'd rather just see the money be put to use! Some sort of return to consumers would be nice. Paying off part of the debt would be incredibly good.

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:32 am
by Goose
You forget which country this is, Cap'n..... you'd need a whole department of people to translate the letter into both official languages, too! And a "centre" outfitted with computer systems to ensure that everyone gets their letter......

If it's anything like the Gun Registry, the government will probably estimate the program to need something like - what was it? - $6 million to impliment, and end up costing over $1 billion dollars......  Big grin

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:38 am
by yyz717
Neil, think of how much it would cost to write that letter? You'd need one person to write it, another to proof read it, then a third to proof read it, then make corrections, then proof read the corrected letter. Keep in mind, that instead of actually having somebody who works for the government, a big fee could be paid for a consultant who is "in" with the Liberal Party to write the letter. Then you have paper costs for each letter mailed, etc etc. I'd rather just see the money be put to use! Some sort of return to consumers would be nice.

Ahhh of course. You're right. I wasn't thinking! It would cost more to refund it!

Let's boot them out in the 2004 election. Those Liberal bxxtards.

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:39 am
by captaingomes
LOL, sorry Goose, I guess I missed a few points.  Smile

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:52 am
by bobrayner
Reduce the national debt.

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:58 am
by N766UA
I'm just about "enrolled" in the Air Force and I would like to fix aircraft that are not over 30 years old.

You should come on down to the US and work on our B-52s.  Big thumbs up You know those things will be 100 when they're retired?

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:06 am
by CPDC10-30
It isn't really all that much. I would spend it in the following order:

1. Replacement helicopters for the Navy
2. Urban infrastructure (give Toronto a real transit system maybe)
3. New/replacement heavy airlift aircraft for the air force

The national debt is now at a manageable level and interest rates are low anyways. This is not the best time to be paying down the debt. If interest rates were above 7-8 % then it would be a different story.

I don't follow the common line of thinking that the healthcare system is starving for cash. It isn't. It is starving for doctors and nurses who have more enthusiasm and interest in serving the patient rather than themselves, and the same goes for their management boards. I'm sorry, every time I walk into a hospital there are such glaring inefficiencies that I don't feel pity at all.

Rgds,

CPDC10-30

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:47 am
by Goose
New/replacement heavy airlift aircraft for the air force

If you're discussing the C-130, well... I would suggest purchasing new C-130s - C-130J, U or whatever model they're flying now. They're a good aircraft with a proven record.

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:34 am
by Lucky727
CPDC10-30 : give Toronto a real transit system? Makes it sound like you haven't really travelled much in your 21 to 25 years. Or you live way out in the 'burbs, an hours' bus ride from a subway line.

Back to Topic :

1. Pay off some of the debt.
2. Give a chunk to healthcare.
3. A big chunk to Toronto - sorry non-Torontonians, but your well-being really does depend on it, too.
3. Some to the military - to refit them as an awsomely outfitted peacekeeping force, and ditch the traditional military role. (we're way better at the former, and embarassingly under-kitted to do the latter).

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:35 am
by AC320
Invest it in Lotto 649 tickets...

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:37 am
by Qb001
I always thought that the surplus should be divided in 4.

1/4 goes to pay the debt.
1/4 goes in tax reductions (something like lowering the GST by 0.5% maybe).
1/4 goes in non-recurrent social or infrastructure spending (bridges, books for libraries, medical supplies, etc).
1/4 is set aside, just in case.

Clear, simple, comprehensive plan. Thus, the Liberals won't apply it...

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:34 pm
by CPDC10-30
CPDC10-30 : give Toronto a real transit system? Makes it sound like you haven't really travelled much in your 21 to 25 years. Or you live way out in the 'burbs, an hours' bus ride from a subway line

Uh, oh Lucky727, you really hit a nerve with me here  Smile/happy/getting dizzy. You couldn't be further from the truth on either count. The streetcars are rumbling past my window right now. I live in downtown Toronto and used to take the TTC exclusivley for many years. It has been such a frustrating experience that I will not take it again (unless in an emergency) unless one of two things happens:

1) The system is dramatically improved
2) I can no longer afford a car (which is coming close considering I have been unemployed the past 2 months)

My 3 main peeves are as follows with the TTC:

The Subway system is woefully inadequate!
There's no way around it. Yes, the subway is great for those that live within walking distance, but that is not the majority of the population in Toronto! And not everything in Toronto is downtown. Lets go back in time a bit to when I used to be in the Air Cadets and I had to travel between Don Mills and Lawrence to Eglinton and Royal York. This is a distance of about 18km. However, because the subway does not come even close to either the beginning or end points, the whole journey had to be made on bus. It would take an average of 1 1/2 hours each direction, including transfer time at Eglinton station. That is an average speed of 12km/h. If I was jogging the whole way I would have got there faster. Now think about my friend who had to commute between Scarlett Rd and Eglinton to Don Mills and Eglinton. Same deal, his only option is the bus, and it eats at least 3 hours out of his day. That is not what I call an effective transit system.

At a bare minimum, there has to be new subway or other rapid transit lines built on Steeles, Eglinton and Lakeshore. Otherwise, too much of the population has to rely on buses and that means a minimum 1 to 1 1/2 hour trip time each direction. You might as well live in Hamilton rather than North York or Etobicoke.

The Streetcars have to go
Yes, they are cute and are a Toronto icon. But they impede the traffic flow and are more dangerous for passengers. Just look at Carlton Street and Yonge in the morning. There is such a horde of people waiting for the streetcars that it takes over 5 minutes sometimes to load the two waiting streetcars. This causes all the traffic behind, including other streetcars to be tied up. Drivers sometimes get frustrated and push ahead, endangering the embarking/disembarking passengers.

The operators have to be retrained
I have found that quite a few of the transit operators have an "us against them" attitude to the auto traffic, sometimes resulting in dangerous, aggressive behaviour with both the bus and streetcar operators. In the mornings, I have to drive along a road that has streetcar tracks. In the winter, it can be very tricky passing the streetcars because usually the right lane is not snowplowed properly. So you would think the streetcar drivers would be courteous and let the first few cars behind them pass. But they don't, and a few times I have come close to losing control. Once I was so incensed by this agressive driving that I pulled in front of the streetcar and refused to move until the jackass driver got out to explain himself.
And for heavens sake, they can do better than pull a packed bus over for 10 minutes to get a coffee in the evening.

On the other point about my travelling, you are also incorrect. It is because I have travelled extensivley that I know the transit system in Toronto blows. Lets not compare it to larger cities like New York, London or Paris. That just doesn't work. But similar sized cities such as Amsterdam and Sydney have much superior transit systems. And even much smaller cities such as Ottawa, Washington and Perth are way ahead.

I'm going to get YYZ717 on my back for this again, but I think the main problem with people in Toronto is that the residents are in denial about the city's deficiencies. Toronto is not a bad city by any stretch, it is generally a good place to live. But it is also definetly not what many here like to tout it as. There has been very little investment in public infrastructure in the city in the past 30 years, and that has to change or else the standard of living will continue to decrease. We need action and money, not false reassurances that the city is "clean and safe" or "world class" etc.

Rgds,

CPDC10-30

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:49 pm
by yyz717
I'm going to get YYZ717 on my back for this again, but I think the main problem with people in Toronto is that the residents are in denial about the city's deficiencies. Toronto is not a bad city by any stretch, it is generally a good place to live. But it is also definetly not what many here like to tout it as. There has been very little investment in public infrastructure in the city in the past 30 years, and that has to change or else the standard of living will continue to decrease.

Actually, I agree with you CP. I'm a downtowner and I'm sick of all my taxes supporting the inefficient suburbs. I'd like to see tolls on all highways into the city for 905 residents. The suburbs have been getting a free ride for too long.


RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:59 pm
by CPDC10-30
Actually, I agree with you CP

LOL, I saw you were the first reply and I was almost afraid to read the post  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:10 pm
by yyz717
No one should be afraid of anything. Except taxes.  Smile

RE: How To Better Spend The Canadian Surplus?

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:43 pm
by Lucky727
CPDC10-30 - I admire your passion about transit. I used to travel 1 1/2 hrs to school - Etobicoke (the only silent 'k' in Canada) to Lawrence Park return daily. No, the rubway might not stop at your front door, and no, it ain't London or Paris, but it does work.

My intuition says : Dude, give up your car! Driving in this city brings out the worst in everyone. Take transit, or a cab when necessary (more often than not?) In the end, you'll come out on top versus what it costs you now.

But again, back to topic : let's give Adrienne those $250 mill to keep stocking the GG's residence with Canadian art, as Herr Martin has no clothes.