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B2707SST
Posts: 1289
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Wed May 05, 2004 5:37 pm

The price of crude has very little to do with the price of gasoline, 26 years ago it was pushing $60.00 per bbl.

Actually, crude and retail gas prices have tracked pretty closely since the 1960s: the price of gas at the pump spiked in the late '70s / early '80s along with the price of crude.



These figures are adjusted for inflation (indexed to 1996 dollars), so both gas and crude are cheaper now than they were 25 years ago.

--B2707SST
Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
 
Akumas
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:53 pm

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Wed May 05, 2004 7:48 pm

We here pay around $.80 for 0.2 US Gallon of gas (petrol in your case.)
 
JAL777
Posts: 2453
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RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Wed May 05, 2004 8:29 pm

It happens that we have also in France our load of small sized boys, and many of them would love to buy an ugly car like yours.
Fortunately, gas prices are high and they don't make a smart choice, but pay a lot in gas, which is a small compensation.
Now, about "crap", Renault is far better than your shitty Chevrolet, but not as good as German cars though.


I drive a (made in Germany) Volkswagen. But I guess your blind generalizations automatically lead to incorrect assumptions. Typical French arrogance.
 
planespotterx
Posts: 1259
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RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Wed May 05, 2004 8:33 pm

I heard on the news in the UK its gonna get worse, I dont drive yet, but im learning to.
Its all because of Shell/Texaco etc pulling people out of Africa due to recent kidnappings and hostage-taking there, so there not risking the lives of the people who work for them, also Iraq has affected the markets too, with it costing more to contain and ship the fuel, as well as extract it.
Its not the fall that kills u, its the sudden stop at the end..
 
greaser
Posts: 1040
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:55 pm

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Wed May 05, 2004 8:43 pm

It's true about people who use SUVS but don't use them as SUVs, but as town cars. Actually, contrary to what almost all of you think, China is prob. the reason why prices are climbing...

(BTW, gas price in Singapore is S$70+++ for 3/4 tank)
1 US$=S$1.70
You do the math
Now you're really flying
 
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sebolino
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RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Wed May 05, 2004 9:07 pm

Oh JAL777,

I'm surprised. You don't drive a "nice" V8 ?
Tell us why then.

Typical French arrogance.

Oh yes, I forgot, that's a national feature  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy (Typical American way of thinking)
 
Akumas
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:53 pm

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Wed May 05, 2004 9:25 pm

Espion007 - Smart cars are for Smart people  Smile good job  Smile
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Wed May 05, 2004 10:23 pm

We still pay so much less than the rest of the world, yet we bitch about it.  Laugh out loud

Relax, I bitch, too!  Big grin

Yesterday, the sign at the station where I go said $1.93 for regular. Fortunately, they hadn't translated that to the pump-it was still $1.75  Big thumbs up

Too damned right! If Americans had to pay what most Europeans pay for petrol, you'd all be driving compact cars instead of SUVs

I'm the head of a family of 5. Compacts don't work for that, do they? I need bigger vehicles to get my family around.

Being indignant is nice, but there are practical considerations. And my wife isn't going to buy me a Mini Cooper to get to and from work any time soon.  Big grin

Maybe if you could get the macho "dork"heads to buy soemthing else than SUVs and heavy trucks for daily commuting.

Again, Aloges, you can't just blame that. Most families can't afford to have 4 or 5 different vehicles. I can't afford fuel-efficent ones just to get to work and back, and keep the bigger ones for family outings. I have to make do with what I have. I can't afford buying 4 cars, and paying insurance and gas for all of them. Again, many of those you bitch at for having SUV's or minivans' we have them for dual reasons-to haul families, and to get to work.

I agree with you, about single people-young women especially-who have a lot of money, and buy those things because they like to show people they have money. And I honestly don't understand ANYONE needing a Hummer, but for most of us, it's just practical to have bigger vehicles to accomodate our family needs.

And just wait, folks. Memorial Day is 3 weeks away, and prices will skyrocket as the "official beginning of summer" arrives.
 
goingboeing
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RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Wed May 05, 2004 10:44 pm

Chevrolet's average fleet gas economy (CAFE standards) are higher than Mercedes, BMW and Lexus.
Chevrolet does have economy cars in there fleet and are just as reliable as French cars.


The problem with this statement is that truck based SUV's, which GM, Ford and Chrysler make a boatload of, are not included in the CAFE standards. And the automakers adamantly oppose any effort to include them in the CAFE standards.

A friend of mine is a Ford Dealer in town. Ford bought hybrid technology from Toyota and is coming out with a hybrid SUV (Escape - a "light" SUV). It is set to be introduced in LA and New York City. He told me that they have experienced 24 mpg of total in town driving with a test vehicle in New York City. He also said that the push is for sales in urban areas. The reason for that is because the thing gets GREAT mileage in city driving, but once it's on the highway, it's just another SUV, and the highway mileage drops accordingly.
 
fritzi
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RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Wed May 05, 2004 11:13 pm

Chevrolet does have economy cars in there fleet and are just as reliable as French cars.

LOL, you think thats a good comparison??  Laugh out loud



Here is a ryhming swedish phrase about Peugeot:

Peugeot, en bil gord för två, en sitter i och en sjuter på!

translation:
Peugeot, a car made for two, one sits in it and the other one pushes it.
(obviously the translation doesnt ryhme)
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
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RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Wed May 05, 2004 11:18 pm

And the automakers adamantly oppose any effort to include them in the CAFE standards.

Of course! Because that would be a PR disaster for them.

About a year ago, my wife and I ended up buying a '98 Grand Voyager-nice minivan, runs great. We were looking, for the hell of it, at new SUV's at a local dealership. There was this one HUGE SUV-dont' remember what it was. The gas mielage wasn't even listed!  Laugh out loud The "smaller" ones, next to it, had gas mileage of like 14 highway and 6 city, which is atrocious.

I don't condemn people for driving SUV's and the like-I drive a larger vehicle out of necessity. But I don't understand this love affair with big, wasteful, gas-guzzling vehicles. I don't understand the need to also drive a million MPH, either, but that's another story. I'm sure the technology is out there to make these vehicles a lot more fuel efficient. Too bad Detroit and Washington don't realize that, these improvements might mean higher prices in the short run,but would be economically and enviornmentally more helpful in the long run.
 
rev3oh2
Posts: 131
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RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Wed May 05, 2004 11:19 pm

I'll admit, it's nice to be paying $1.71 per gallon here in North Carolina (the last time I filled up), and driving a Nissan. Just across the border in South Carolina it's about 7 cents cheaper per gallon due to a lower state gas tax.

It is still cheaper than a gallon of milk, yes. But I don't drink 5 gallons of milk per week either.

A question for the European folks here. If, as stated above by one of our British friends, 80% of the cost of a fill-up is simply tax, how is that tax applied? That is, how is the money from the gas tax spent? Is there a breakdown available? I'm sure it varies from nation to nation. Just curious.
...let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.
 
jwenting
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RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Thu May 06, 2004 1:12 am

Just noticed when I drove home that the gas station near the office now charges €1.30 per LITER.

That's about $6.50 a gallon, so PLEASE don't complain about high gas prices in the US.
I wish I were flying
 
LH423
Posts: 5924
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RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Thu May 06, 2004 2:29 am

That's about $6.50 a gallon, so PLEASE don't complain about high gas prices in the US.

Then write you MP and tell him you want your petrol taxed less. It's all about what we're used to. Americans are used to cheap gas prices, so when put in perspective it'd be the equivalent of your gas prices going up 0,50 euro. You'd be upset too, because your gas prices, despite already being high, just got higher.

I'm sure one day North American petrol prices will get more on par with the rest of the world, but until then you're gonna hear a lot of bitching and moaning from Americans, who should be pushing the manufacturers to making small, more efficient cars. I'm not saying that everyone drives around in a mini, but for instance, the minivan. Why drive this:


When you can drive this:


LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
aloges
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RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Thu May 06, 2004 6:28 am

Alpha 1, of course it's hardly possible for most people to own and operate four vehicles. But why buy a Ford Excursion for your family trips when a Ford Galaxy or whatever van you can get in the US offers more space, flexibility and a better fuel economy? You're of course absolutely free to buy whatever you want, but please allow me to just not get it. The better options are out there, why do so many go for the worse ones?

And for the record, I hate those stupid MB/BMW/Porsche/VW SUVs and the attitude of many of their owners just as much as you do. Some people in Germany actually declare those Cayennes and X5s "commercial vehicles" because pollution limits and thus taxes are lower for those. Fuckers. If you shell out € 100.000,- for a stinking (literally!) monster of a car, you're a complete arse if you sneak around paying the taxes.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
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RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Thu May 06, 2004 6:36 am

Well, I got my F150 because I wanted the 8 Foot bed. It has the 4.2 Liter Six, which is the small motor.

I just wouldn't want to drop say 40 grand on a vehicle, where I am going to end up hauling bags of manure inside with me. With the pickup that isn't a problem.

And actually if I replace that I will replace it with a larger F250 or F350, The reason why is that I am going to insist on getting the diesel motor, something that was out of my price range this go around. Also I want the greater towing capacity.

I have no problem with people buying these vehicles if they feel they need the capablitites and are willing to pay the penalties, like the price of fuel.

And since the question is going to be asked, I am trying to sod in a lawn right now, that is why I am literally hauling shit around in the back of my truck.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
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RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Thu May 06, 2004 8:16 pm

Just read an article that the fuel price here in Germany has reached €1.20 per liter... with the Euro currently at $1.21703, and the gallon (still) at 3.7854118 liters, that equals $5,53 per gallon...

I am so glad that I don't have (or need) a car at the moment...

Here's the article (in German): http://www.n-tv.de/5241501.html

Regards,
Frank

Edited: changed "is expected to reach" to "has reached" in the first line...

[Edited 2004-05-06 13:25:58]
Smile - it confuses people!
 
FDXmech
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RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Thu May 06, 2004 11:35 pm

IMissPiedmont is right. Taking account inflation, gas prices are cheaper now than 20 years ago. I worked at a gas station during the gas crunch of 1980 and at the time the gas pumps couldn't go higher than 99.9 cents a gallon. $1.00 a gallon gas was inconceivable. But it came.
Until we got new pumps we had to set the pumps to charge 1/2 and multiply by 2. ($1.04 would be .52 cents X 2).
It was weird because every time you saw a number you'd multiply by 2.
I remember waking each morning looking at my digital alarm clock trying to make sense of the time displayed. "Okay it's 7:00 AM does that mean it's 14:00 AM?"
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Twistedwhisper
Posts: 689
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 11:52 pm

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Thu May 06, 2004 11:52 pm

1 gal in Sweden is currently $5.0652. I'd be happy to pay 1.5, 2.5 or even 3.5 for a gallon...

Guess you know now why you don't see a lot of SUV's, Dodge RAM's or Ford f-350's over here  Wink/being sarcastic

Read between the lines.
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Thu May 06, 2004 11:55 pm

TwistedWhisper,

What are you talking about?? Sweden and Norway has thousands of SUV's in their countries. And you have your big ass Volvos  Big grin
Now the big Volvos are really some gas suckers. hehe
 
VectorVictor
Posts: 384
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:31 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 3:06 am

no one is about to throw their SUV away to buy a Metro

Let's go to the tote board than shall we? Just at Carmax's http://www.carmax.com Texas locations alone they have...

Dallas: 78 SUVs in inventory
Houston: 125 SUVs in inventory
San Antonio: 120 SUVs in inventory

That's over 300 used, traded-in SUVs. I would imagine in these three large Texas markets there are probably upwards of 1,500 or more SUVs on used car lots. Typical? Atypical? You got me. Most of the unsold inventory will probably be sold to dealers south of the border.
 
SXFAN
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:20 pm

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 4:11 am

Greece's prices are 0,80 Euros/L for 95 octanes gas & 0,95 for the Shell V-Power & BP Ultimate (99 & 100(?) octanes).
Can somebody please tell me the amount that we are paying in GALLONS?

I am an SUV owner (HONDA CRV 2003) but the engine is only 2,0cc compared to the U.S. monsters of at least 4,6cc. Why don't you Americans swich to smaller but more efficient engines as we in the E.U. do?
 
aerobalance
Posts: 4313
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 8:35 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 4:30 am

SXFAN,

This American drives a 'Monster' SUV, A '97 Honda CR-V with a Monster sized 2 liter engine.

This American is telling you to shove your arrogance up your A$$!!
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
SXFAN
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:20 pm

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 4:59 am

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Of course I was not reffering to the CRVs but to many other "heavily" equiped SUVs.
Aerobalance I will not follow your suggestions.
Try what you suggest first on yourself and then tell me if the pleasure is guaranteed.

cheers from your greek friend!!!! Smile
 
aerobalance
Posts: 4313
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 8:35 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 5:17 am

SXFAN,

I was referring to your statement of:

"Why don't you Americans switch to smaller but more efficient SUV's as we in the E.U. do?"

You were denoting that all Americans have big-monster SUV's------hey, some don't.... some do----- big deal. Welcome to the land of FREEDOM, the freedom to live and choose as we wish.

How do you know if it's pleasurable?

"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
Tom in NO
Posts: 6725
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 1999 10:10 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 5:27 am

I was going to say that unleaded has hit $1.80 for the first time in New Orleans. However, seeing what the rest of the world pays, I'll just shut up, gas up my van, and slither on home.

Tom at (the home of cheap gas) MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
SXFAN
Posts: 358
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RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 5:35 am

I was asking for you to tell, but because of my english I probably confused you.
Anyway its O.K. at the moment. I had no intention to sound arrogant but as I know the engines in the U.S. are much bigger than those in Europe.
In Greece a good car is the one that has a 1,6cc engine and onwards but the majority of the Greeks own cars with 1,4cc engines.
cheers again
your greek friend.
 
aerobalance
Posts: 4313
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 8:35 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 5:42 am

SXFAN,

No problem.

I like small engines for their potential economy, and I like big engines for their cheap torque! I'm thankful that I work hard enough in this country to have a choice.

Cheers! Aerobalance
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
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sebolino
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RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 6:15 am

Welcome to the land of FREEDOM, the freedom to live and choose as we wish

Because you think we're not free to buy the car we want in Europe ??
 
EGGD
Posts: 11884
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 6:35 am

Sounds like petrol prices are going up again here. I guess if there was any doubt that the UK had some of the highest fuel prices in the world its non-existent anymore!
 
aerobalance
Posts: 4313
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 8:35 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 7:06 am

Sebolino,

Did I say that you're not free?

Yet concerning what you have stated on this thread I'm not sure if you would like complete freedom.

I quote Sebolino:

"Now, speaking about politicians is rather funny, as taxes on gas are not more for politicians than any other tax (at least in Europe), and I personnaly like that gas taxes are high, it prevents my country to be full of Chevrolets."

Sebolino also writes:
"I'm actually very happy that these guys have to pay now, and I hope the prices will continue to climb to reach the same level as in Europe. Then we'll see if it was so smart to buy a ridiculous big block for small dicked guys."

Are you implying that your unnaturally high gas prices are a government enforced obstruction to prevent your society from purchasing heavier and larger-engined vehicles.

Is that your idea of freedom?



"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
EGGD
Posts: 11884
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 7:14 am

Yes, that is PRECISELY why they raise taxes on fuel prices in Europe  Insane
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 7:39 am

The prices are out of control because the oil industry knows they can get away with it.. there's no shortage of anykind. No major refineries off-line. Honestly how forthcoming do you think the oil industry is when it comes to explaining why prices are out of sync? This is one of the most secretative, exclusive clubs on the planet. The top/mid level executives don't pay for gas.. so why should they care what it cost you/me? There has been no less than 20 congressional investigations into 'price gouging'... and the result? Nada.. the investigation slowly fades away ( probably because the oil execs provide the congressional members gas vouchers to give to thier families/friends -- if you don't think they'll take them...just try to pry loose those perk parking spots at CA / KDCA), USA - Virginia">DCA from their hands!). They'll simply announce an investigation to feign sincere concern for the plight of the people.. and that's about it. This admistration is the best friend Big Oil has bar none. So the industry has free reign at the moment and if you expect this adminstration to go after the oil industry for you..you're nuts! Example.. Swartzenegger is the gov here in CA now.. he's doing all he can to pump up Hollywood... and Hollywood really doesn't need it, but will the take the assistance.. you bet your ass they would! Er...are! And if he was prez.... he's make Calif. his #1 priority.. and Hollywood above that! Would CA really need it? Hell no. Would they take it? You already know the answer.

Calif. is the largest car/oil market in the US. The US the largest consumer of all nations. The laws of economics suggest that the greater the demand... the lower the prices.. that's why the US has lower prices than europe by far. But when we look at it domestically, Calif. is getting totally ripped off, we have some of the largest refineries around at Carson (the whole city is a refinery) near LAX is another one and they are acting like we are Hawaii and it has to get trucked in (adding to the cost). They've also said that Calif. requires a special smog reducing blend.. my ass it does, that cost was covered years ago. It's like the tolls you pay when you transit the Holland, Lincoln and Midtown Tunnels in NYC... they paid for themselves decades ago.. but now they're paying salaries and ensuring profit. Same here in Calif. the industry knows this is freeway city.. and they'll pay through the nose to 'steadily be seen in their SUVs'.. so why care..when you can collect and 'Get Paid!'

I've seen some of the answers above as why there's a jump in prices. Even if someone within the oil industry posted here would you for a minute expect the to tell YOU the truth as to why there's such high prices? That's like the gate attendant telling you... the plane has landed yet.. (you look out the window and there's a 777 sitting there [and the only 777 ops that day] and they'll are argue with you " That's not ours... it hasn't arrived yet" Or excuses about an upgrade (you've seen heard those too). This oil jig is about serious money billions by the day... and I'm betting that the Bush crowd smells an defeat in Nov.. and this is the oil industry's last hurrah for a while.. so they might as well enjoy it while they can. But is nice that some people here think that the men behind big oil are honest, kind, upstanding and square-dealing businessmen.

I bet anything gas prices in Oklahoma and Texas is cheaper than hell! And yet one of the largest oil producing tracts in the US is little known Kern County just north of LA... and we will continue paying because we (the people) 'trust' the bullshit explanations the oil company's keep giving us.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 8:07 am

>>>The laws of economics suggest that the greater the demand... the lower the prices.. that's why the US has lower prices than europe by far.<<<

I thought this due to taxation.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 8:09 am

Oh another point, don't think that all of the US has cheap gas.

Aniak, Alaska reportedly is $4.78 US.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
A330Fan1
Posts: 835
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:24 pm

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 9:03 am

I was driving in Westwood, outside Los Angeles today

and prices were about 2.40 or 2.50, even 2.60 per gallon!!! OUTRAGEOUS!!!

-A330Fan1
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 11:08 am

Goingboeing and Sebolino:
My comment about Cheverolet being as reliable as French cars was actually meant to be a joke. I am suprised no one here saw the irony. Neither of the two are known for economical reliable cars. For a reliable small gas engine, you're better off going Japanese. For economical diesel engines, you have to go German. For and luxury, power, reliability and class, you have to go AMERICAN! Big grin


About the whole CAFE standards argument. I think SUVs and trucks should ONLY come as diesels period! The yuppies, soccer moms and gangster rappers will find there way back to sedans, wagons and sports cars overnight.
A truck is meant to haul heavy items and tow. Nothing beats a diesel engine when it come to those functions.
Ford, GM and Dodge already have diesel engines availible for there trucks and SUVs.
As for as these compact and luxury SUVs, that will just be a short footnote in automotive history that hopefully will never be revisited.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Leezyjet
Posts: 3544
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:26 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 11:24 am

Taken this from my post in the other thread about Uk/Germany Petrol prices :-

Just heard on the news (ITV) that petrol prices are set to rise again in the UK due to a surge in Crude oil prices.

Current average is 78p/litre.

Broken down, it works out that :-

Tax man gets - 62p
Fuel company gets - 14p
Retailer gets - 2p

The government is also putting tax up by 1/2p per litre in next few weeks.

People understand when the price of oil goes up, but what really pi$$es people off is the amount of tax the government takes, this is also ontop of the extortionate road tax we pay already to drive on our crap unmaintained roads.


Another fuel blockade is in order me thinks............


 Smile



"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 8:45 pm

>>>About the whole CAFE standards argument. I think SUVs and trucks should ONLY come as diesels period! The yuppies, soccer moms and gangster rappers will find there way back to sedans, wagons and sports cars overnight.<<<

That's actually a very good idea.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
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sebolino
Posts: 3602
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 11:26 pm

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 9:55 pm

Are you implying that your unnaturally high gas prices are a government enforced obstruction to prevent your society from purchasing heavier and larger-engined vehicles.
Is that your idea of freedom?


First question: No it's just made to collect more taxes.

Second question: Absolutely. The freedom of the population and especially the children to be protected from the pollution. And I believe particle filters should be mandatory on diesel cars AND trucks right now.
We still have full freedom to buy the car we want.


Do you mean the less taxes the more freedom ?
For me, freedom is not related to what you can buy with your money, but to what you have the right to buy, to do and to say. That shows obviously a cultural difference. (where did I heard that USA is driven only by money ??  Smile/happy/getting dizzy )
 
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sebolino
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RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Fri May 07, 2004 10:00 pm

Goingboeing and Sebolino:
My comment about Cheverolet being as reliable as French cars was actually meant to be a joke


I didn't say anything about your comment.

But you're victim of your prejudices.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Sat May 08, 2004 6:42 am

Sebolino:
But you're victim of your prejudices.

Not true. I like French cars a lot.
The Citroen SM and DS are one the world's most beautiful cars.
I hate the fact that SUVs have become a status symbol. I still love large sedans and coupes which unfortunatly aren't as hip as they used to be. Every country minus South Korea have there fare share of awesome automobiles.
I'd certainly buy a French car over a German car.
Bring back the Concorde
 
AvObserver
Posts: 2607
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 7:40 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Sat May 08, 2004 6:49 am

Though it often got me flamed in the Car and Driver forum, I've much sympathy for the European viewpoint, here. I think the frequent American preference to buy often much bigger vehicles than needed is regrettable. Rabid SUV fans scream 'freedom of choice" but what it often means is freedom to be irresponsible about energy consumption and environmental impact. Sure, plenty of folks do need bigger vehicles but not on the scale of say, the Ford Excursion, which really works only as a heavy-duty commercial vehicle, not a family SUV. The Hummer H2 is a pointless 'trophy' vehicle that can't be considered sensible on any level. If people bought vehicles only as big as they needed, perhaps we wouldn't be experiencing these high gas price spikes brought about by surges in demand. The average mom doesn't need a 6000+ lb. 'tank' just to bus her kids to school or go to the beautician but she "feels safer" in one. That safety, of course, often comes at the expense of those of us who drive small cars. I won't lambast those who need a big truck for hauling or a Suburban for pulling a trailer or boat on a vacation trip. But people who buy a huge vehicle just to impress the neighbors when a minivan or less would better fit their needs have something out of balance. It's only understandable that Europe and much of the world are incensed about U.S. oil consumption. Perhaps continued high prices are needed to force some of us to rethink their priorities. At least I do my part by driving a small car no faster than I need to and by planning my trips so that miles are kept to a minimum.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Sat May 08, 2004 6:56 am

AvObserver:
Well said!
The funny thing is, those who scream; "'freedom of choice" is really just conforming. These people in upper-income suburbs are just keeping up with the joneses and trying to fit in with everyone else in there surroundings.
One family buys an Envoy, the next one buys a Tahoe, then the next one buys an H2.
Are these people really free?
I bet if one dared buck the trend and bought a 1975 LTD Landau, they would be pulled over and harassed by police and there local HOA (Home Owners Association) would place a ban on these types of vehicles.


[Edited 2004-05-07 23:56:26]
Bring back the Concorde
 
fly727
Posts: 1756
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:27 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Sat May 08, 2004 7:06 am

Around 2.60 USD a gallon here in Mexico City for "Premium" gas.... Quiet expensive but not as high as in Europe though.

RM  Smile
There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Sat May 08, 2004 7:21 am

I admit, I haven't read everything in this thread for lack of time, but I want to add a few comments.

First of all, freedom of choice in the US is a great thing, and should not be jeapardized. However, what disturbs me is that government policy actually promotes the buying of these large SUV's, with massive tax breaks for vehicles over 6,000 lbs GVW. This was originally designed for farmers, so they could better afford the heavy equipment needed for their industry. That's great, but why should the same tax break go to all business owners to purchase Cayennes, H2s, Suburbans, etc? It doesn't make any sense, and is really in my opinion a poor policy with respect to the public good. Think about it, US citizens are subsidizing the purchase of these large luxury SUVs.

I can't wait to see more diesels in North America, especially after the introduction of ultra low sulphur diesel in 2006. With particulate traps, and cleaner diesel, these new powertrains will have many environmental benefits, as well as providing great fuel economy.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Sat May 08, 2004 7:47 am

Captaingomes:
When low sulphur diesels come on to the market, will there me emissions testing for them? Right now, diesel is exempt from smog. I hope it stays that way. It would be terrible if the government retroactivly mandated older diesel powered cars to meet these standads.
Bring back the Concorde
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Sat May 08, 2004 7:57 am

Superfly, I'm not quite sure what will happen with respect to emissions testing, especially with older generation cars, but a few automakers are testing diesel powered vehicles to be introduced when ULSD is available in 2006. These include BMW, Audi, VW, Toyota, Ford, and others. Some companies, such as GM (of course) say diesels can't meet the upcoming regulations in 2006 or 2007, but these other automakers have said they already have powertrains capable of meeting the requirements.

For now, Mercedes is just introducing the E320CDI which will get I believe about 39 MPG on the highway, do 0-60 in the mid 6 second range, and quarter mile times of just a bit over 15 seconds. Now that's impressive! (I'd have to refer to Car and Driver for actual numbers, but those are the ballpark figures). This car will only be 45 state compliant for now, until the lower sulphur diesel is available.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Sat May 08, 2004 8:08 am

Captaingomes:
Mercedes is just introducing the E320CDI which will get I believe about 39 MPG on the highway, do 0-60 in the mid 6 second range, and quarter mile times of just a bit over 15 seconds.

WOW!  Wow!

That ain't natural!

Mercedes has always made great diesel powered cars as well as VW and Audi.
Do you know anything about the BMWs 2.7 turbo diesel back in the 1980s?
They came availible in the 1984 and 1985 Lincoln Mark VII and Contenintal. Interesting you couldn't get that engine in any BMW imported to North America but you could get it in a Lincoln. Were thay any good?
Bring back the Concorde
 
captaingomes
Posts: 6251
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Outrageous Gas Prices

Sat May 08, 2004 8:17 am

Superfly, I'm actually not aware of that particular BMW diesel engine, and how it was put in the Lincolns! That's pretty cool.  Smile

Maybe later on I'll post the actual stats from the E320 CDI.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster

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