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dl757md
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Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:45 am

The prologue has finished and Lance Armstrong is in second 1" behind winner Fabian Cancellara. The other contenders are about 17" or more back. Of course you can never tell much from the prologue but Lance looks like he will be the one to beat again this year.

http://www.letour.fr/

[Edited 2004-07-03 19:45:59]

[Edited 2004-07-03 19:46:48]
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
767-332ER
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:56 am

I definitely think he will win this year and make it a record. No one believed he could do 3, but he sure as hell proved his competitiveness and did 5...Sadly they are trying to prove that he's been guilty of doping which I don't believe at all, but we shall see. The tour looks interesting this year.
Regards and good luck Lance...bring home a 6th!!!
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
EMBQA
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sun Jul 04, 2004 5:58 am

I hope he can, but he's also 6 years older then when he won his first. There are some good 'young guns' out there now.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
greasespot
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sun Jul 04, 2004 7:37 am

But thanks to the wonders of chemical training his body is actually 7 years younger than when he won the first time.



Ok ok hold on now I am just kidding. Lance is one of my favorite riders out there and I think he is amazing.

I hope he will make it

Greasespot
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
iakobos
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Mon Jul 05, 2004 7:29 am

767-332ER,
You must have misheard or misread something, there is nothing such as "they are trying to prove he is guilty of doping".
As far as I know, it is a just two journalists who are trying to market a book at the opportune time.

On paper Lance has the best team, if you know something about professional cyclism, you would know that this accounts for the biggest part of any champion's result in multi-day races. Not to underplay the leader's qualities, but the other guys are doing the hard work everyday and right from KM 0.

 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Mon Jul 05, 2004 7:55 am

But thanks to the wonders of chemical training his body is actually 7 years younger than when he won the first time.

Yeah... chemotherapy will be the new thing in Hollywood plastic surgery before long  Big grin

I sure hope he wins, as a Plano/Dallas/Texas/American native- GO LANCE !!  Big thumbs up
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
Greg
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Mon Jul 05, 2004 8:15 am

Personally, I'm sick of him--let him lose.
But it has more to do with him becoming famous..and then divorcing his wife...which is about 'on par' for all newfound celebs.

There has already been a five time winner, right?
So, he really needs this for the record books?

And yes, I understand he is testament to cancer patient recovery.

And oddly, it's of of the few Americans that the French actually love (hopefully supplanting Jerry Lewis).

Ok, never mind...I hope he wins.
 Smile

 
canoecarrier
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:21 pm

I find this unbelievable! Surely, the TDF is being followed daily in Europe? If not for US Postal, nobody in the US would follow bicycling.

If this thread hadn't been started I would have done it myself! There has to be someone for Jon Ulrich or somebody other than Lance Armstrong on this forum?

I'm going to be there next year, with or without LA. He's brought way too many people into bicycling in the US for me to not show up next year. And for everyone that says he's on the juice...try chemo then win the next 5K at your local run, we'll see how you feel.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
NUAir
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:34 am

I have been to The Tour two of the last three years and you would be very surprised/delighted at how many Texans (they bring the Texas flag not the American) show up for the event. For the final stage on the Champs Elysee they usually have their own section where they gather, get blasted and go crazy when they see Lance coming through.

The other thing you have to consider is how many Americans are in this years Tour and in addition to Lance, both Tyler Hamilton and Levi Leipheimer (both finished in the +5 sec group today) are strong contenders. With Mayo in big trouble after finishing +3 min on a flat stage 3 I would expect to see at least 2 of the three Americans in the top 5. But as this is a 24 day event a lot could still happen and one bad crash can change everything for any of these riders.

OLN is doing great coverage of this years tour and if you can stand Bob Roll's commentary its well worth watching.

They also have a live web broadcast for every stage
http://ww2.olntv.com/tdf04/



"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
racko
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:31 am

I think the Spanish riders will be really pissed after today's action by Armstrong & Hamilton. Won't make it easier for him, as it might now be possible that they team up to attack him on the mountain stages. I still think that he'll make it though.
 
canoecarrier
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:52 pm

Bob Roll is the Don Cherry of cycling. He is fun to watch. I love the suspense of the first few days, everyone jockeying for a 5 second lead. I still hope Lance Armstrong wins, I have to go to this thing next year.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
Andreas
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:12 pm

Actually, it wasn't just Armstrong's and Hamilton's gang, that gave Mayo an additional kick in the rear, it was Ullrich's team, too! They didn't start it, but when they saw what's happening they decided (correctly IMHO) to follow Armstrong!

It gives you a pretty clear picture, though, that Armstrong is rather nervous this year, won't leave out any chances just to make fairplay, butthen, he never was famous for being a nice guy.

His team ist probably the best, Ullrich's gang would be, but the injuries of Winikurov were heavy, so he couldn't start...and he would have been Ullrich's deputy in the mountains, so he's got to do it alone again, because no other drivers are even close to be able to follow him up the hills.

So in the end, Ullrich will attack during the single races, when every second counts, that's what he does best anyway, and then try not lose any time in the mountains!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
NUAir
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:32 pm

"he was never famous for being a nice guy"

Actually the press labeled Lance as the nicest guy in the tour the last two years in a row along with several other teams. Don't forget last year that he slowed down the entire leading group to wait for Ullrich to recover from an accident. And he returned the favor by flying by Armstrong after his accident with the spectator and didn't slow down until Hamilton caught up to him and told him he was an "ass". If you want poor sportsmanship look no further than Ullrich.

It was Mayo's own fault and the fault of his team for what happened yesterday. Lance, Hamilton and Ullrich all have teams that worked hard to make sure they were in the front going into the cobblestone, Mayo is still stuck with the same team that failed him last year. Don't blame Armstrong and Hamilton for that.

As far as teams go just wait and see what happens today.
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
racko
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:08 pm

NUAir,

did you watch last years tour? Ullrich was waiting, even before Hamilton came to the front and started to play the important man. And last year Ullrich was waiting even though the tour was still open, but in 2001 Armstrong already had a ~4 minute lead.

Oh, and I didn't say that Armstrong behaved unfair, I just said that the Spanish riders won't like it.

The TTT is a disaster so far, lots of crashes due to the weather. Phonak with Hamilton had 2 or 3 crashes, just recently 3 riders of CSC crashed in one corner.

It looks like the teams that were riding early have a big advantage, US Postal is only 5th at the first split time, T-Mobile only 8th.

[Edited 2004-07-07 16:19:40]
 
9V-SPF
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Thu Jul 08, 2004 12:18 am

NUAir, if you have no clue what you are talking about, then why bother to talk at all?

Last year, Armstrong fell from his bike because of some stupid fan at the side of the road. Ullrich DID NOT attack but slowed down and waited for Armstrong and so did Hamilton.
Afterwards, it was actually Armstrong who "returned the favor" by attacking those who had just waited for him (which was ok but not too gentleman-like in my opinion).
Check your facts before talking nonsense. You won´t find ANY occurence in Ullrich´s career where he behaved unfair towards his opponents.

Concerning today´s stage: Impressive performance by US Postal, Armstrong deserves to be in yellow now but I don´t think his team will try everything to defend this jersey during the following days because they want to save energy for the mountains where the Tour will be decided.
Another thought of mine is that the team time trial should be abandoned in the future because its result has mostly nothing to do with the individual strength of some cyclists who have a clear disadvantage just because not having enough time trial specialists in their team (the new rules do not change this).
 
NUAir
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Thu Jul 08, 2004 12:58 am

9V

Your way off.

1st of all I said that Armstrong slowed down in a previous stage after Ullrich was involved in a crash which you have so convenienetly forgotten not to mention it was a delay of almost twice as long as the accident Armstrong had with the fan.

As far as Armstrongs crash with the fan, Ullrich did not slow down until Hamilton caught up to him and told him too. You dont have to believe me just go and watch last years tape yourself. I have seen the replay about 100 times and each time I watch it Ullrich still doesnt slow down until the others tell him to, maybe you have "special" footage of the race over there in Germany. And in any bike race once you catch up after a crash you dont sit around, Armstrong did what every other rider in every other tour has done in his position and thats to catch up and keep going. He went at the exact same pace he was going at the time of the crash and so did Mayo, if Ullrich couldnt keep up its not Armstrongs fault.

ahhh and yes you are another European who cant stand to see the Americans winning so you want to take the team time trial out of a team race. Are you a little disappointed that T-Mobil is spending twice as much as USPS and still cant beat them? I guess if you cant beat them change the race until you can, right?

I have to agree with you 100% that today's time trial won't determin the winner and there is still a lot of this race left, but in a race like the tour its important that your team is bonding and working well together before going into the mountain stages and I think this will be a very strong advantage for USPS.
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
FRASYD
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:53 am

Jesus, that's coming close to the A vs B wars on this page....

I'm on Ulle's side though... Thanks to the new rules UsPostal didn't kick his *ss even worse today. But still, he is going to win it this year, believe me. Just look at his legs, how powerful they look this year!

No worries, Germany, just wait for the last week in the alps!
 
EMBQA
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:02 am

If you guys are talking about the Tour accidents, in both cases the riders waited for the other to recover. As Lance later said during an interview "I was not going to beat Jan Ullrich that way, I wanted to beat him on the bike" I have seen the video of both crashes. Lance waited, and Jan waited.... I'm sorry if Lance is the stronger rider. I have also seen the video of the now famous 'the look'. Lance looked over his left sholder then proceded to 'dump' a broken Jan Ullrich.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
9V-SPF
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:15 am

Your way off.

No, I´m not. See below.  Smile

1st of all I said that Armstrong slowed down in a previous stage after Ullrich was involved in a crash which you have so convenienetly forgotten not to mention it was a delay of almost twice as long as the accident Armstrong had with the fan.

What you said was that "Last year that he slowed down the entire leading group to wait for Ullrich to recover from an accident", which is definitely wrong. You are most probably talking about 2001 when Ullrich crashed downhill and Armstrong waited, which was very honourable. Read your post again if you don´t believe me.

As far as Armstrongs crash with the fan, Ullrich did not slow down until Hamilton caught up to him and told him too. You dont have to believe me just go and watch last years tape yourself. I have seen the replay about 100 times and each time I watch it Ullrich still doesnt slow down until the others tell him to

Again, you are wrong. Ullrich did not accelerate. The guy Hamilton slowed down was definitely not Ullrich. On the contrary, Ullrich has been multiply honoured by several juries in Europe for the fairness he demonstrated on that stage. Armstrong calls him "a friend" and his "best contender", which probably would not be the case if he had tried to take advantage of a crash in the way you described.
If you don´t believe me again, check out what is written about that stage on the official tour website and especially make sure to read what Armstrong said about that incident last year:  Big grin

Iban Mayo – the champion of the thousands of Basques who created an orange tunnel of enthusiasm on the final 13km climb – surged ahead of an elite troop which included all the riders at the top of the overall classification. Only Armstrong and Ullrich could respond. Lance led this trio around a sweeping right hand turn. The excitement generated by the race’s arrival prompted a child, watching from the side of the road, to throw his arms forward. A bag he carried caught the right of Armstrong’s bars and the rider in the yellow jersey went tumbling down. Mayo couldn’t escape the carnage, but Ullrich’s reaction was as swift as Lance’s when he managed to avoid the sprawling figure of Joseba Beloki at the end of stage eight.
Riding on the wings of angels, as Armstrong so clearly does, he wasn’t hurt in the fall. He jumped straight up, sorted out his bike and joined Mayo’s chase of the other candidates for the stage. Ever the gentleman, Ullrich waited.
“I’m grateful for his gesture today,” said Armstrong after reminding the gathered media that he did the same thing in 2001 when Ullrich crashed off the road in the stage to Saint-Lary-Soulan. “What goes around, comes around. What I did (in 2001) was the correct thing to do. What he did today was the correct thing. And I appreciate it.”


You can find this article at http://www.letour.fr/2003/us/ if you go to stage 15. Convinced now?

ahhh and yes you are another European who cant stand to see the Americans winning

Now you really crack me off. Where did I say anything which might indicate that I don´t like to see Americans winning? I love America and its people, visit that country at least once a year and have always enjoyed watching Armstrong and other american athletes performing sucessfully as well as those from other countries.

If you want to find someone who cannot stand Armstrong, doesn´t like America or who is a die-hard Ullrich fan not seeing the reality, please look for someone else than me.

so you want to take the team time trial out of a team race. Are you a little disappointed that T-Mobil is spending twice as much as USPS and still cant beat them? I guess if you cant beat them change the race until you can, right?

It´s getting even funnier. I explained the reasons for my dislike of team time trials above. If you didn´t read it, please feel free to do it now. The winner of the Tour de France should be the best athlete and not the one who has the best team mates. If that is Armstrong, that´s fine and I´ll be the first one to congratulate him.
And I don´t care about T-Mobile and how much money they spend.

 
Imonti
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:47 am

Nuair, I am an Armstrong supporter but you obviously dont know much about Armstrong. While he has changed a lot after cancer, one must look at him pre-cancer. Chipiccauci he called cappucion, hey my name is lance armstrong and by the end of this race you will know it, yeah for finishing last. No arrgoance on Lance's behalf there, none what so ever. There is a lot more but lets not get into it. I am going to watch the tour in France and I hope to enjoy it.
 
canoecarrier
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Thu Jul 08, 2004 7:14 am

The opinion of Armstrong in the press has improved greatly since he first started racing in the Tour. He's learned French and does interviews with French TV.

It was too bad it was raining today during the TTT, overall not very exciting, exept for the podium girls holding the umbrellas over the riders at the start. Those women are beautiful! The US channel OLN has been following Armstrong's training for the past few months. All the work Trek did on his TT bike probably didn't make any difference given the conditions. The individual time trial will be much more interesting since it's in the mountains.

Ullrich is and always has been LA's greatest competitor. Should he win, he deserves it, but he's still not my favorite rider. Just can't wait until this race gets into the mountains.


The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
NUAir
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:02 pm

9V,

You are correct that I was referring to the previous tour when Ullrich went off course during a mountain stage and Lance waited for him to come back.

Going back to last years tour, I can only laugh at the article, which is a brief summary of the stage and says nothing about why Ullrich was waiting. Seriously go back and watch the last 15 km of stage 15 and tell me when Ullrich slowed down. And you still havent responded to the fact that Lance kept to his original pace that he had at the time of the crash which is what any rider is supposed to do.

The only arguement the Ullrich supporters can make (which believe it or not I am one since Im also a big guy and ride on the big ring at lower cadence) is that it takes him a lot longer to get back to his optimal speed, and slowing down for Lance (after Hamilton told him too) really hurt his chances on that stage as it took him so long to get back into it.

As for the TTT the Tour De France is a stage race and as such it has some time trials like most stage races. For a team like T-Mobil its going to be tough because they are not as well balanced as CSC, Phonak or USPS but that has been part of the race for many years and with 20+ stages its good to have some variety and a chance to prove the strength of your team which you have been training with the entire year. As in most years, USPS will probably not win in the overall team standing (probalby go to CSC this year), but they know (just like every other team that rides the tour) that the TTT will be included in the race and they train hard for it. I also thinks the TTT tests riders on an individual level as they have to be in shape and able to keep up with the best riders on their team. I say keep it!

Imonti, We try not to include the pre-cancer years when we talk about Armstrong  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Of course he was an agressive a**hole of a rider back then but I was responding to comments about last years tour and I personally see him as a great sportsman who has had to take a lot of wrongly aimed criticism (especially in regards to drug use). He has brought a lot of good things to the sport of cycling and I think he is a great rolemodel for the fans and wanna be cyclists like me.

9V, I don't want to make this a flame war but I love having a debate on cycling and even though I'm not an Armstrong supporter ( I was going for Ullrich last year which is why Im so critical of his very close loss with Bianchi and his current overpriced, yet much better, T-Mobil team) I still think he is the best rider of the Tour and Ullrich and others need to take a few lessons from him.
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
9V-SPF
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:04 am

Going back to last years tour, I can only laugh at the article, which is a brief summary of the stage and says nothing about why Ullrich was waiting.

Well, it says the following:
Ever the gentleman, Ullrich waited.
“I’m grateful for his gesture today,” said Armstrong


So I´m questioning myself, if even Armstrong realized that Ullrich waited for him, why don´t you?

And you still havent responded to the fact that Lance kept to his original pace that he had at the time of the crash which is what any rider is supposed to do.

I already said that it was ok for him to accelerate again (no matter if he was faster than before the crash or not). As we both do not know how fast he was riding before and after the crash, there doesn´t need to be any further discussion.

he (Armstrong) has brought a lot of good things to the sport of cycling and I think he is a great rolemodel for the fans and wanna be cyclists

I completely agree, Armstrong is a perfect idol and I´m sure his performances have helped cycling-sport (especially in the USA) a lot. He has been the dominant athlete in cycling for five years now and apparently he will be keeping that status for quite some time.

9V, I don't want to make this a flame war

Nice, but then why did you have to take cheap shots at me by talking this anti-american nonsense (me anti-american, I´m still amused  Nuts )?
 
dl757md
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 3:59 am

A side note to pass along. Lance Armstrong announced he will not be going to the Olympics in Athens. I for one will be disappointed as I was hoping to see him attain the Olympic success that has eluded him. I vividly remember Lance attacking at the '96 Oly RR right in front of us and thinking he had it in the bag only to see that on the next lap he was out of contention. Had it not been for the cancer I think he would have stayed away. My disappointment about him not racing this year is replaced by my admiration of the fact that he's doing it to be with his kids. What a great guy.
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
kdalaggie
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:00 am

Yeah,

I was blessed to meet him twice in my lifetime so far.

My neighbor's son, down the street, raced with Lance when they were at t.u. (University of Texas) and how they used to race each other all over Austin's hills and how they used to complain about the road conditions. He was really young, but I thought he was still cool.

Remarkably, the second time I'd met him was in 2000, when I was already at Texas A&M in school. He was there doing wind tunnel testing/training whatever. Me and a couple of friends went to see him and to my surprise he remembered me.

Good man, good Texan.
Gig'em Ags!!!!
 
G-VIIB
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:53 am

Lance looks very strong this year but one has to realize that his team is completley built around him and willing to make every sacrifice just for him. Sure, other teams are built around their team leaders (Rabobank-Levi Leipheimer; Phonak-Tyler Hamilton; T-Mobile-Jan Ullrich, etc) but Lance is right beside team director Johan Bruyneel in making every decision. While other riders race all season long, during the spring classics and the Grand Tours, Lance consistently trains for one race-Le Tour. While this tactic wins him the Tour de France every year-other riders such as Jan Ullrich and TYler Hamilton race dozens of races every year and are more well-rounded. All said, Lance is no doubt one of the best riders out there TODAY--considering his incredible life story, but one cannot forget about the greats of Fausto Coppi, Jacques Anquetil, Bernard Hinault, and the greatest Eddy Merckx (basically every race in existence at the time except Paris-Nice, 5x Tour, 5x Giro, 5x Vuelta).
In a way, I want Lance to win--just so I can experience a 6 time winner in my lifetime--but I have always pulled for Ullrich or Hamilton or Beloki (or recently, Mayo) to win as the underdogs. Now, with Mayo unable to win because of a crash and a large time defecit, it would be interesting to see Ullrich or Hamilton win, but it would also be incredible to see someone win 6 straight (although i don't want this record to be broken because then people will overlook the accomplishments of the greats and Indurain). Lance is a great athlete--and with such a strong, supportive team with Hincapie, Landis and Beltran--I think winning the 6th is definetley in sight--but don't forget about Ulrich, Hamilton, Basso or maybe even Gilberto Simoni in the mountains.
It's shaping up to be another great race (despite the many crashes)
 
dl757md
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:47 am

While other riders race all season long, during the spring classics and the Grand Tours, Lance consistently trains for one race-Le Tour. While this tactic wins him the Tour de France every year-other riders such as Jan Ullrich and TYler Hamilton race dozens of races every year and are more well-rounded.

G-VIIB. I have to disagree with you on that one. All of the current GC contenders for TdF approach their preparation in similar fashions. Ullrich especially rides very little and inconsistently in the spring. While Armstrong has a progressive build up in his fitness level, Jan has a furious rush in May-June. All three riders you mentioned have less than 30 days racing this year previous to the Tour with Hamilton having the most and Armstrong having the least. All were however within a few days of each other.

I would like to see someone come along that has the ability to dominate all season long. It would be difficult in this age of specialization but I think if you crossed Jan Ullrich's physical abilities with Lance Armstrong's single minded methodical approach and Tyler Hamilton's never say die attitude you might have someone who could do it.

BTW going into the TdF Lance Armstrong had the highest world ranking of all the GC contenders. Just maybe something to be said for quality over quantity.

Dl757md

757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
G-VIIB
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 2:02 pm

DL757-
What I said is not an opinion--it is a well known fact that Lance indeed spends most of his season in preparation for the Tour. Not saying that other riders dont, but they intend to win other races. I was speaking on a general note when i said that--of course Hamilton and Ullrich train for the Tour substantially, but Ullrich also rides the Tours of Murcia, Germany, Switzerland and Tyler rides some spring classics and Liege-Bastogne Liege and the Tour of Romandie and the Dauphine. Lance also rides some other races (Dauphine, Languedoc-Rousillon), but his MAIN focus is the tour. While Ullrich was riding the Tour of Germany and Simoni the Giro, Armstrong was riding up Alpe d'Huez (He rode it 10 times in May). Of course it pays off-domination in Le Tour. I was merely saying that in general, he doenst have the "high intensity" racing that Ulrich, Simoni, Hamilton, Basso and other GC-ers have before the Tour--or should i say he doesn't have a wide spectrum--but I didn't mean anything by it-just speaking in wide terms if you will.
Like you said, it would be nice to see a well-rounded and consistent rider come along- if you crossed the three. Maybe some day we will see the emergence of a multi-Tour rider like Pantani, who in '98 managed to win both the Giro and Tour. Simoni today manages to ride them both--and in the past two years won the Giro but failed in the Tour. The only rider that comes to mind in the well rounded category are UCI leaders such as Bettini or Zabel--I think Bettini comes the closest.
Lance does have the edge when it comes to quality over quantity-I'd take 5 Tours over consistent placings in major races any day!(The high UCI ranking is due to the massive amount of points that comes with winning the Tour)

G-VIIB
 
iakobos
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:51 pm

G-VIIB
Perhaps a typo, but Eddy Merckx won 3 x Paris-Nice but (only) one Vuelta.

With 525 wins, 5 TdF (incl. 35 stages and collecting all jerseys and 6 stages at his first appearance), 5 Giro (incl. 25 stages), 1 Vuelta, 4 World Championhips, 31 major classics, the hour record, 7 consecutive Super Prestige (equivalent to today's UCI) he was in a category of his own.
 
dl757md
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:59 pm

What I said is not an opinion--it is a well known fact that Lance indeed spends most of his season in preparation for the Tour. Not saying that other riders don't, but they intend to win other races

G-VIIB, I agree that it is a fact that LA's main focus is the TdF but he is intent on winning other races.
1999
1st Circuit de la Sathe TT
2nd Amstel Gold
8th Dauphine Libere
2000
2nd Paris Camembert
3rd Dauphine Libere
3rd Classique des Alps
2001
2nd Amstel Gold
1st Tour of Switzerland
2002
2nd Criterium International
4th Amstel Gold
1st Midi Libere
1st Dauphine Libere
2nd Criterium Internationale
2003
8th Amstel Gold
1st Dauphine Libere
2004
1st Tour de Georgia
4th Dauphine Libere
3rd Criterium Internationale

Hard to believe these are the results of someone who doesn't intend to win races other than the TdF. It's really impressive when you consider he isn't peaking during most of these races and is competing against many riders who peak during the spring.
Also found some interesting stuff at the UCI site.http://www.uci.ch/modello2.asp?1stlevelid=C&level1=1&level2=5
The last points ranking before the TdF clearly shows no advantage to Ullrich in results.
Armstrong Ullrich Hamilton
1999 12th-1226pts 26th-976pts
2000 4-1570 3-1602
2001 1-2098 8-1702
2002 3-1841 6-1480 64-543
2003 N/A N/A N/A
2004 7-1592 9-1437 16-1159
2004 ytd 34-554 36-522 15-720

Sorry the table didn't end up formatted like I wanted it to but it's close.

I couldn't find figures for 2003. The 2004 ytd are for the period beginning 01-01-04 to present.

Considering that there is a 125 point difference between 1st and 2nd at a grand tour(1st being 500 pts and 2nd being 375) when you eliminate the TdF from the points standings there is a virtual tie between the two riders except for 1999 as LA didn't compete in the '98 TdF yet led JU considerably despite JU winning the '98 TdF. Your statement in regards to JU racing more races and being a more well rounded rider than LA is false. They are in the same category of TdF specialists and due to their supreme fitness and talent they win some other races too. They are both guilty of focusing on the TdF at the expense of longer flatter season. BTW The above numbers bode well for Hamilton to have a good tour.

Back when a rider could dominate the whole season everybody followed the same approach to the season. Now we have riders who realize that they will never have a chance to win a grand tour so they peak early and concentrate on the classics and world cup. They then can peak again around World Championships time. Someone who peaks for TdF is pretty much limited to one peak a year as it is in the middle of the season rather than the beginning or end. The maximum time that an endurance athlete can peak is 6-8 weeks. With different athletes peaking at different times of a 6+month competition season you can't expect an athlete to dominate all season long.

I'm tired of people complaining that LA is the only rider that concentrates on the TdF at the expense of all else. He is only one of many that do the same exact thing with one exception.......He does it better than anyone else.

BTW G-VIIB you are a very knowledgeable cycling fan for a 13-15 year old. I'm impressed. Do you ride? I noticed your profile says you run track.
Keep it up!

DL757md

757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
G-VIIB
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:44 am

Dl757-Agreed, maybe my wording wasn't exactly correct but you clarified everything. I just meant to say that watching "Lance Chronicles" and speaking to different cyclists, its clear that Lance puts emphasis on the Tour more than anything else. So do Tyler and Jan, but it just seems that I always see them racing in more "grand" races than Lance--but with the Tour de Georgia and Criterium International performances, he certainly does race more than I thought. He is a great guy, my dad's had the chance to meet him briefly in his pre-cancer days during his World Championship and Motorola times.
Yes, I do ride and am very into the sport-my dad was involved in the Polish Olympic team for cycling back in the day and now we are avid cyclists involved in the professional sport. I'm 16 now (I haven't posted on here in a while), don't run track anymore but I ride quite often (But it's getting difficult down south with the drivers and no professional exposure to people my age!) Anyways, I'm enjoying following the crash marred tour and will be in France in a week and might get to see some of the Alpe d'Huez time trial.
Good Luck!
G-VIIB
 
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:02 am

Gotta love OLN's coverage. I'm watching the re-run of today's stage as I watch this. In the past, I haven't really been a huge road racing fan, but this is actually pretty fun to watch.

'Speed

edit: I've really got to take a trip to France to see this. Also, some FIS World Cup Skiing would be cool. I'm thinkin' The Hannenkam. Dang, I'm such a closet Europhile.

[Edited 2004-07-10 19:10:06]
 
dl757md
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:39 am

It looks like Armstrong has established himself as the man to beat in this years tour. He rode a very smart stage today by putting time into all of the other contenders including 1min 3sec on Mayo, 2min 29sec on Ullrich, 2min 57sec on Heras, 3min 27sec on Hamilton, and 3min 59sec into Thomas Voeckler the yellow jersey. Lance moves up to second overall 5min 24sec back. The amazing thing is that Armstrong appeared well within himself which means he should be able to do well again tomorrow when the stage profile suggests that he could put this one away. Ivan Basso has established himself as the most serious threat to a 6peat for Lance. The time trials could be the difference.
In any case I predict we'll see Lance Armstrong in yellow tomorrow.

[Edited 2004-07-16 17:58:56]
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2573
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:18 am

Both Basso and Armstrong looked good today. Did you notice Basso had one of the yellow wrist bands for Armstrongs cancer foundation on when they rode today? I wonder if this was preplaned for them to escape together? Not knowing their relationship, I'm just speculating.

Mayo must be frustrated, he's had lots of mechanical problems and is getting further behind. With tomorrows long and steep stage ahead, Ullrich and Hamilton will have a hard time making up the 4:30 minutes or so they're behind Armstrong.

What a great begining for Voeckler, he had a gutty performance today, you could see him struggling to get across the line. I'd have to agree there will be another yellow jersey wearer tomorrow, too bad for Voeckler one more and he could give his whole team a yellow jersey. Should be interesting.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
dl757md
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:29 am

Lance Armstrong and Ivan Basso are good friends. A friendship that has been cemented by Lance's support and assistance to Ivan's mother who is battling cancer. They spent a part of the rest day Monday discussing that situation. Hence the yellow Livestrong bracelet.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/tour04/?id=results/stage12

Dl757md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
EMBQA
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:02 pm

I think the next 4 days will decide topping with Wens climb up L' Alpe d'Huze.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2573
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:30 pm

Wow, didn't know Basso and Armstrong were that close. That link is great. As I dump the OLN coverage for cycling news! You have to love the quote from Ullrich that he "has big thighs"

That's the beauty of today's stage, if Ullrich, Mayo, Basso, Armstrong, or Hamilton have one bad day, they are out of the yellow jersey race for the rest of the tour. Just a few more hours we'll find out!
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
CPH-R
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:24 pm

I heard that most of the riders as well as a lot of the spectators around Le Tour are wearing the Livestrong wristbands, since any profit goes to cancer research.
 
canoecarrier
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sun Jul 18, 2004 12:39 am

Another gutty day for Voeckler, he deserved to get the yellow jersey again. I can't believe he's hung around this long, but he certainly has alot of heart.

Very unfortunate that Hamilton pulled out today. After last year, I'd hoped he'd finish in the top three. Who's left? Other than Basso, who's a great rider, not really anyone left to challenge Armstrong. Ullrich is done, if he wasn't done yesterday, he's certainly done today.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
CPH-R
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RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sun Jul 18, 2004 1:48 am

I wouldn't rule out Klöden, though if he is going to have any chance T-Mobil must focus 100% on him from now on.
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2573
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:20 pm

RE: Tour De France - Will Lance Make It 6?

Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:22 am

Kloden has been a surprise for T-Mobil, he has some time to make up though.

I thought the fans are getting a little too close to the riders this year, almost worried they'd deduct time from Armstrong when it looked like he might have got a push from one on the last climb.
The beatings will continue until morale improves

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