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trijetfan1
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Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:53 am

I am sorry but I do not really see why people want to place a higher tax percentage on the the rich. I feel to be fair the government should place the same tax percentage on everyone no matter what. I do not see why rich people have to make up the decficit created by poor people. Can someone give me a good explanation to why it would help the country if the rich recieved higher taxes, rather than hearing, "Oh the rich are criminals" or flame like that.

I do not want to start a flame war here, I already expressed my opinion that tax percentage should be equal no matter what. And I am willing to hear everyone out if they give good explanation. Post your opinions.
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luisca
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:59 am

becouse if we dont then the Peoples Republic of Europe and the Socialist Republic of Canada wont be happy with us and we need to love our allies.  Yeah sure

5 more minutes for jaysit to take over this thread  Wink/being sarcastic
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:06 am

Good question. Lets see what kind of dumb reponses are coming.
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:16 am

We have to punish the rich for showing initiative.. God forbid people think for themselves and work hard. They should give us all their money so we can hand it out to the welfare families and illegals to encourage them to have kids. In fact, we should just tax everyone to death and give everyone a check at the first of the month to tell them how much they may spend.

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jamesag96
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:18 am

Because they make so much money that they don't know what to do with it. Do you really think it is fair that someone can make over a million dollars and only pay 300K in taxes, when a guy that only makes 100K has to pay 30K in taxes?

LOL.
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JAL777
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:23 am

Because they make so much money that they don't know what to do with it. Do you really think it is fair that someone can make over a million dollars and only pay 300K in taxes, when a guy that only makes 100K has to pay 30K in taxes?


 Insane
 
Continental
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:23 am

Excellent idea! We shouldn't tax Paris Hilton at a higher tax, she needs those extra 10,000's to buy new handbags! She NEEDS it! What's wrong with you, can't you see that she needs new handbags!!?!!?
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:23 am

Most of the "rich" worked their asses off to get where they are today. They paid their dues so to speak, worked and worked and worked to make the big bucks. Granted some of the lower class do the same. For instance a doctor goes to college the med school then residency then finally becomes a doctor at the age of 35. He makes 500K starting. They worked their ass off in school and in residency and is now working hard as a MD. Why should some low life (not saying all the poor are low lifes) get his hard earned money?
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EGGD
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:27 am

I totally agree and i've always found it strange when debating at college about it how many girls go on about how the rich should get taxed proportionally more than the poor, which I think is ridiculous. Over a certain salary I think there should be a uniform tax rate (percentage) rather than the ridiculous 2.5%, 10%, 20%, supertax brackets we have at the moment.
 
Qb001
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:37 am

Actually, you got it all wrong.

It should be the poors that pay less taxes, as they need to have the minimum it takes to pay for rent, food, clothes, school expenses, health care, access to transportation, etc.

The tax rates for others should be fixed so that the government has the money it takes to fulfill its responsibilities.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
luisca
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:39 am

The fact of the mater is the money is theirs, they earned it, if they worked for it or not is another debate, but it is theirs, in a free society, you cant have equality one way and not the other, same thing applies to affirmative action, etc.
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JAL777
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:44 am

It should be the poors that pay less taxes, as they need to have the minimum it takes to pay for rent, food, clothes, school expenses, health care, access to transportation, etc.

The tax rates for others should be fixed so that the government has the money it takes to fulfill its responsibilities.


Which is why the firs $X.XX amount of dollars is untaxed. Ding!
 
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:47 am

Where's B2707SST and N6376m when you need them? They have all the stats that I know but cannot find - the ones that show the "rich" actually get unfairly burdened with the vast majority of taxes paid, and the middle class and poor pay little if any tax at all.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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luisca
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:52 am

Qb001

your signature says all their is to know about you, I will not even debate you, since you dont belive in FACTS.

I am 19 BTW, who looks like an A$$ now?
And if I were 12, what difference would it make? If I have a oppinion based on facts why cant you respect it, just becouse of my age?
The FACT is 50% of taxes come from 5% of the population, while their are people out their who live on welfare their whole lives, never making a dime.

oh right, you dont believe in Facts

[Edited 2004-08-10 21:57:26]
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Qb001
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:52 am

The fact of the mater is the money is theirs, they earned it, if they worked for it or not is another debate, but it is theirs, in a free society, you cant have equality one way and not the other, same thing applies to affirmative action, etc.

Coming from a 16 year-old who, obviously, knows best  Insane
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
jamesag96
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:53 am

"It should be the poors that pay less taxes, as they need to have the minimum it takes to pay for rent, food, clothes, school expenses, health care, access to transportation, etc."

Then what incentive would there be for those people to work harder, improve their lives through education, and make their own way?

"The tax rates for others should be fixed so that the government has the money it takes to fulfill its responsibilities."

What are the governments' responsibilities? Just how far reaching must it be?
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JUANR
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:58 am

In my country there are a lot of taxes and the percentage changes depending on which one you are talking about:

For example:

Sales Tax Sadcalled IVA) 16% to sales and services; it does not apply to priority needed goods such as milk, bread, rice, etc.

Rent Tax: 35% of the income that increases your patrimony (Income-Expenses) Only if your income is superior to US23.000 a year.

Industry and Trade Tax: It is a local tax and the percentage change a lot depending on the place you are in. I pay a 0.00966%.

Immovable Properties: If you own a house, apartment, etc, you have to pay from 0,8% to 1.2% of its value every year. The percentage is assigned according to the place where it is situated, there are 6 categories where 1 is poor and 6 is rich. People in 6 pay highest, people in 1 pay the least.

Vehicle Taxes: Depends on what car you have, type, year, etc.

There are more.....

Of course the variation in the percentages has relation with what in our country we call Social-State where the richest pay more and the poors pay less, of course no poor pay the rant tax because they usually do not increase their patrimony and US$23.000 is more money than they will make in their life, so percentages are not the only way to make poors pay less, there are a lot, and all of them are established make real the solidarity principle.

Juan
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VSlover
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:00 am

No, its true.

The top 1% of earners pay 33% of all paid taxes from all brackets in 2001.

The botton 50% of earners pay only 3.9% of all paid taxes.

Source: The Tax Foundation http://www.taxfoundation.org/prtopincometable.html#TotalIncomeTaxShare
 
Dash8King
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:01 am

You think the rich shouldn't be taxed more? Okay we got Joe Schmo who made 30,000 at 40% would be 12000, so he is left with 18000 to pay rent, transportation, etc.

Harry Dick makes 500k a year at 40% takes away 200,000 of his money. He has 300,000 to live with the other guy has 18,000. Now if everyone was taxed the same he would likely have less then that too. Can you live off 300,000 comfortably? I think so, what about 18,000? Not nearly as easily.

edited to add before anyone picked it apart it just a quick example no actual tax percentages were used.

[Edited 2004-08-10 22:03:30]
 
VSlover
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:04 am

BUT WHY should it be my problem that I am a highly trained doctor (for example) making 300k per year where the guy making 30,000 only made it through high school and is working at some dead end office job?

its not my problem. if he cannot make ends meet, then he ought to get the proper training that would allow him to do so.
 
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:07 am

So you're advocating taxing people based on their ability to pay? Well then why isn't EVERYTHING that way, then?

I mean, if that's fair, then why shouldn't my millionaire next door neighbor pay $20.00 a loaf for bread when I only pay $2.00? If he makes ten times what I do, shouldn't he pay ten times what I do for the same things? It's only FAIR, right? He can afford it, so therefore he should be forced to pay that rate!  Insane

Because that's essentially what you're suggesting - and once again, that's not a fair system.

Punishing achievement is not the way to encourage it to thrive.




[Edited 2004-08-10 22:10:30]
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:08 am

Coming from a 16 year-old who, obviously, knows best

You're right: the fact that a 16yr-o can realize that simple truth, but you apparently cannot...

...speaks volumes.
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Qb001
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:10 am

Then what incentive would there be for those people to work harder, improve their lives through education, and make their own way?

I don't understand that objection, because its opposite is to say that taxing poor peoples will help them have a better life or will be an incentive to make their own way. It doesn't make any sense to me.

What are the governments' responsibilities? Just how far reaching must it be?

The answer to that question is, by and large, democracy. The government's responsibilities are those consensually agreed upon by the population.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
 
jamesag96
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:11 am

"You think the rich shouldn't be taxed more? Okay we got Joe Schmo who made 30,000 at 40% would be 12000, so he is left with 18000 to pay rent, transportation, etc.

Harry Dick makes 500k a year at 40% takes away 200,000 of his money. He has 300,000 to live with the other guy has 18,000. Now if everyone was taxed the same he would likely have less then that too. Can you live off 300,000 comfortably? I think so, what about 18,000? Not nearly as easily."

My goodness...income redistribution and socialism in a nutshell.

How about dumb ass Joe Schmo gets a better job and pays his own way.

I honestly am blown away at the number of people that think it is O.K. to take from well to do people simply because they are well to do.
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luisca
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:13 am

Dash8King

Even though you say that you use no real numbers, if you use a 40% tax rate, you are making it look much worse than it really is.

If you use a more appropiate 12% tax rate, you will get this

for 30000 they take 3600, leaving him with 26400, while in a bracket system, the top earner (500000) would be about taxed about 18%, meaning he would pay 90000, leaving 410000, that is a fare number.

[Edited 2004-08-10 22:17:50]
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RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:23 am

Then what incentive would there be for those people to work harder, improve their lives through education, and make their own way?

I don't understand that objection, because its opposite is to say that taxing poor peoples will help them have a better life or will be an incentive to make their own way. It doesn't make any sense to me.


So you're only able to grasp a concept if it's opposite makes sense to you?  Nuts

Look, the objection is simple - if a person is robbed of the incentive to improve their lot in life, they won't try to in the first place.

So you're giving people a choice:

  • keep paying next to nothing in taxes as you're currently doing, since the achievers are subsidizing you through their large tax burdens


  • or

  • bust your ass to become an achiever, but have the fruits of your labor taken to subsidize those who aren't as fortunate as you


  • Given that people will typically take the path of least resistance when neither option benefits them more than the other, most people will then choose to NOT bust their asses and achieve more, since it'll just be taken away in the form of higher tax rates anyway.
    "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

    Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
     
    slider
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    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:29 am

    I'm a big advocate of a flat tax system. No loopholes, no deductions, no exceptions.

    Juanr- Thanks for posting that. YIKES! Just curious, seeing how repressive taxes are in Colombia, is there a big acive black market for goods? With a sales tax of 16%, I would imagine you start driving commerce underground at that point. Can you elaborate?

    Thanks...
     
    Qb001
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    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:54 am

    So you're only able to grasp a concept if it's opposite makes sense to you?

    Well, it's not exactly that. But, indeed, it has to do with the fact that a proposition has to be logic. Sort of if A=B, then B=A as well.

    And I don't see the logic in saying that taxing the poors will give them the motivation that is required to improve their condition. I happen to think that the opposite is true. You know, like giving the poors a tax break so they have the minimum that is required in life, like food, a home, clothes and so on. But, hey, if you believe an indecent, hungry and homeless human being can make it in our world in these days and age, why don't you make that demonstration by yourself and give it a try? I'll be the first to applaud when you succeed.


    So you're giving people a choice:


    keep paying next to nothing in taxes as you're currently doing, since the achievers are subsidizing you through their large tax burdens

    or


    bust your ass to become an achiever, but have the fruits of your labor taken to subsidize those who aren't as fortunate as you


    So, exactly what I thought : lets tax the poors, and give the riches a tax break. Nibor Dooh economics 101; why didn't I think of that first...

    Edited : spelling.

    [Edited 2004-08-10 22:56:12]
    Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
     
    B2707SST
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    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:56 am

    VSLover posted the most important data set in the taxation argument, which drives a stake through the heart of the notion that the wealthy are undertaxed. I reproduce it here (data from 2001):

    Percentile     Share of Taxable Income   Share of Taxes Paid    Income Threshold
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Top 1% 17.5% 33.9% $292,913
    Top 5% 32.0% 53.3% $127,904
    Top 10% 43.1% 64.9% $ 92,754
    Top 25% 65.2% 82.9% $ 56,085
    Top 50% 86.2% 96.1% $ 28,528
    Bottom 50% 13.8% 3.9% $ 0

    Remember that the incomes given are adjusted gross incomes, which exclude certain deductions including contributions to tax-deferred savings accounts like IRAs and 401(K)s.

    After the Bush tax cuts, the share of total taxes paid by the upper income percentiles has increased. Let me repeat this: the wealthy pay a greater proportion of all income taxes than they did before the Bush tax cuts.

    IMHO, the best tax system would be a flat tax with a personal exemption of around $20,000. This system would be revenue-neutral at a 20% rate. Most deductions would and should be eliminated. Couple this with a voluntary personal retirement account plan to fix Social Security and our national financial situation would be far more secure.

    The ultimate goal of progressive taxation (and related transfer payment programs) is the equilization of income. It is based on the fallacy that the economy is a zero-sum game: in other words, the wealthy get rich at the expense of other people, so nothing is lost by taxing them back down to size. This concept is deeply flawed, both theoretically and empirically, but the class-warfare crowd will never give it up. They have built too large a constituency on playing one group against another.

    --B2707SST
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    5NEOO
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    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:15 am

    Those of you who are in favour of a flat tax rate are under the assumption that the capitalist system that governs the markets is flawless; couldn't be further from the truth.

    1. Does a med. student fresh out of a residency program truly deserve to earn $500K + a year? One could argue that he/she has worked their butt of in obtaining that degree and thus does deserve the paycheck. But their counterpart in Japan doesn't earn as much as they do, and they worked just as hard to earn their degree also.

    2. Does a college professor teaching Chemistry at a "third-tier" school or less deserve to never DREAM of earning close to $100k a year because the markets will not support such an individual earning that much although he/she put in just as much time, effort and money into earning a Ph.d?

    3. The CEO of JetBlue makes around $200K a year, but his counterpart at UAL certainly makes at least twice his salary, although JetBlue is a whole lot more profitable than the other. So why doesn't Neeleman get compensated more for his hard work?

    There is always going to be dispute over what individuals in different job functions should earn; heck why do Delta pilots earn more than their counterparts!
    Until we all come to an agreement on what one should earn, a flat tax rate is just going to be a pipe dream.
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    gigneil
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    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:18 am

    The bottom line is this.

    Rich people can afford to pay more in taxes without materially compromising their lifestyles, and the ratio is set up to maximize that without actually hurting anyone.

    The truth is, many Americans are dumb. Not unmotivated, but ungifted. These people work harder than the rich people do, and still can't get ahead. Its not fair to make these people shoulder more of a burden than they reasonably can, when the truth is that Paris really could do with a 15,000 purse instead of a 100,000 purse. (but god knows they are fabulous).

    If we all paid the same amount in taxes, the country would grind to a halt. There would be no roads, no national defense, no education for anyone, no air traffic control. There would be total anarchy.

    Even if we cut all social welfare programs of any kind, which I believe is morally repugnant, this country would cease to function.

    Better fiscal controls on behalf of the government could fund all our current social programs, and more, and a good defense, with less taxes across the board than people are currently paying, even at the low and middle classes.

    Sales taxes are great on paper, but the bottom line is miserly rich people, which a surprising amount are, would simply stop spending money as much, or even sending more dollars outside the country for purchases. It would effectively grind the economy to a standstill.

    This is America. You can call me a pinko all you want, but the reality is America was founded on the ideals of helping your fellow man. If you don't think you can spare a few extra percent so that everyone has good schools and roads, then you don't deserve to live here. You deserve to live in one of those countries where the wealthy hoarde all the money and lead their materialistic, morally decrepit lives.



    For the record: I am in the 41% federal tax bracket. Would I mind paying less in taxes? No. But do I feel I could spare a few more bucks so that the automotive workers can feed their families 3 solid meals? Absolutely I do.

    N
     
    dan-air
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    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:24 am

    It cracks me up watching you fools extolling the the virtues of the rich and how unfair it would be to tax them at a higher rate.

    I know it keeps me awake at night, worrying how they might survive without another tax-cut. LOL. Dumbasses. I'll leave you with this thought:

    Warren Buffett is the second most wealthy person in this country. He pays an effective tax-rate of 3% on his income.

    Discuss.




     
    Qb001
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    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:25 am

    That table (in reply #28) is an argument in favor of higher taxes for the rich.

    Populists frequently cite this as evidence that tax cuts are beneficial to the poor, although this is a classic example of how to abuse statistics.

    This table simply illustrates that the rich paid more taxes because they made more; the poor paid less taxes because they made less. No one in his right mind would accept this as a favorable development, and only a right-wing nut would spin it that way.


    [Edited 2004-08-10 23:26:14]
    Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
     
    ConcordeBoy
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    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:26 am

    But do I feel I could spare a few more bucks so that the automotive workers can feed their families 3 solid meals? Absolutely I do.

    ...then join Meals on Wheels, make your jolly donation for whatever extra percentage of your income you want, and leave the rest of us out of it  Yeah sure
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    JAL777
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    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:27 am

    Warren Buffett is the second most wealthy person in this country. He pays an effective tax-rate of 3% on his income.

    Discuss.


    He is second wealthiest in assets. He doesn't make the money... his company does. How much money do his companies pay in taxes?
     
    VSlover
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    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:33 am

    um, no QB--

    people who make 18% of the countrys income pay 34% of its taxes.

    tis not a manipulation of statistics.
     
    gigneil
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    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:36 am

    ...then join Meals on Wheels, make your jolly donation for whatever extra percentage of your income you want, and leave the rest of us out of it

    Again, people like you don't deserve the freedoms this country provides.

    Your argument explains the moral bankruptcy, but what about actual national functions? If we paid the same taxes, everyone, there would be no nation. Nothing would exist, and then you wouldn't be able to drive whatever shiny car you may or may not have on the roads that wouldn't be there.

    My guess is you have no argument for that.

    Congratualtions on being a total moron. If you make 18% of the economy's money and you pay 39% of the economy's taxes... please tell me how that somehow justifies that current tax system.

    Easy. Because they can.

    If the bottom 50% were to pay that share of the economy's taxes, then everyone in the bottom 50% would be homeless and poverty stricken.

    Don't point fingers. You obviously know nothing about economics, so you too may shove it.

    N
     
    JAL777
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    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:39 am

    Easy. Because they can.

    You can also get your lazy ass to work.
     
    VSlover
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    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:42 am

    Again, people like you don't deserve the freedoms this country provides.


    yet it is people like you who use the liberties i am paying for so you can tell me that?
     
    gigneil
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    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:42 am

    Good job. Review the previous posts, then comment again. Just being an asshole doesn't qualify you to respond, but hey since you're lazy, let me reiterate.

    Most "poor" people are dual income families that work more hours a week than you could even dream of. They work blue collar jobs because that's what most jobs in this country are, and that's what they can do.

    I assure you I make many, many times what you make, so don't tell me to get my lazy ass to work.

    I would like to suggest that people without any knowledge of economics in this country keep their posts to themselves, lest they be branded a moron.

    N
     
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    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:43 am

    And I don't see the logic in saying that taxing the poors will give them the motivation that is required to improve their condition.

    No, the point is that telling them they'll pay little to no taxes since "the rich" will pay for them instead gives them no motivation to improve their condition, since they could potentially become "the rich" and have to pay the way of everyone else.

    Warren Buffett is the second most wealthy person in this country. He pays an effective tax-rate of 3% on his income.

    Discuss


    Define your terms (preferably with documentation to support them) that support paying just 3% tax on his income.

    "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

    Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
     
    gigneil
    Posts: 14133
    Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:44 am

    yet it is people like you who use the liberties i am paying for so you can tell me that?

    You have it backwards, friend. The lower class provides the basic liberties this country uses, not the other way around.

    If you don't want roads, or schools, or any of those things. Fine.

    N
     
    LH526
    Posts: 1990
    Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2000 2:23 am

    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:45 am

    My words for years!!

    I myself are AGAINST higher taxes for the rich people. Obviously in most cases the richt have worked harder, and achieved more in life, so why "punish" them with higher taxes. On the other hands, rich, by spending more money than "poor", DO PAY more taxes by buying things. A BMW costs more taxes a year than a simple Toyota!

    I think it has a lot to do with envy! Everybody make his own minds about that.

    Mario
    LH526
    Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
     
    gigneil
    Posts: 14133
    Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:46 am

    No, the point is that telling them they'll pay little to no taxes since "the rich" will pay for them instead gives them no motivation to improve their condition, since they could potentially become "the rich" and have to pay the way of everyone else.


    You know that's not true. Nobody decides to stay poor to avoid taxes, and I can't believe a rational person like yourself would suggest it.

    N
     
    JAL777
    Posts: 2453
    Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 10:13 pm

    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:48 am

    I think it has a lot to do with envy!

    Ding! I think it has something to do with most people thinking the rich make their money easily... nothing is further from the truth.
     
    gigneil
    Posts: 14133
    Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:49 am

    Obviously in most cases the richt have worked harder, and achieved more in life, so why "punish" them with higher taxes.

    That is also, simply, not true. Most of the wealth in most Western countries is still concentrated by family, and stays in the same small pockets of society for many generations.

    The people doing the hardest jobs are, typically, paid the least for them.

    N
     
    VSlover
    Posts: 1860
    Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:36 am

    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:53 am

    hardest?

    in general labor terms?

    "hard" is purley non-objective sense of looking at the world. hell, i'd be your job is a lot "harder" than mine. so you should probably get a break and not have to pay as much in taxes.

    ooh, poor thing you!

    please elaborate how ANY ONE class provides more liberties than another.
     
    gigneil
    Posts: 14133
    Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:58 am

    The majority of the low class provide services. They build roads, pick up trash, are law enforcement, or, most importantly, are schoolteachers.

    I assure you, the last two work harder and trained harder than you've ever worked a day in your life.

    It all comes down to greed. All your purported "self made men" are typically extremely generous, and I think you'd find that the people that give money to the homeless or stop to give people directions are people that don't have a ton of money and could probably be better off if they kept that quarter.

    Rich people can afford to pay more in taxes without damaging their lifestyle. Plain and simple. To have a millionaire pay a flat 20% and a schoolteacher who makes $14,000 pay 20% is not even comparable. The schoolteacher couldn't live, couldn't eat, couldn't afford to drive to work. But the millionaire would still have an extremely luxurious lifestyle.

    It all comes down to simple greed.

    N
     
    B2707SST
    Posts: 1289
    Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 5:25 am

    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:02 am

    This table simply illustrates that the rich paid more taxes because they made more; the poor paid less taxes because they made less.

    Incorrect -- the percentage of the tax burden paid by the wealthy is greater than their share of total income. In other words, if Person A makes ten times more than Person B , A pays more than ten times as much in taxes as B.

    If we paid the same taxes, everyone, there would be no nation. Nothing would exist, and then you wouldn't be able to drive whatever shiny car you may or may not have on the roads that wouldn't be there.

    I don't think anyone is arguing that everyone should pay the same amount in taxes (i.e. a head tax of $10,000 per person). That would be extremely regressive and grossly unfair.

    What some of us support is a flat marginal tax rate after a certain personal exemption. Such a tax would be revenue neutral at 20% -- meaning that roads, schools, social programs, etc. would get the same funding they do now.

    The current tax code is a mess. Progressive marginal tax rates disincentivize people from achieving high incomes; a constant marginal tax rate does not. Subsidies, tax breaks, deductions and elaborate loopholes inserted into the tax code by special interest lobbyists distort economic resources into unproductive purposes (tax shelters and havens) and allow high-income earners to avoid paying their fair share. The AMT ensnares more and more middle-class tax earners every year.

    Between those economic distortions, enormous compliance costs, and the IRS bureaucracy needed to adminster the federal income tax, the deadweight loss attributable to the current tax code runs far into the hundreds of billions. A flat tax with a few simple deductions would eliminate virtually all of it.

    --B2707SST
    Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
     
    dan-air
    Posts: 600
    Joined: Tue Sep 07, 1999 6:13 am

    RE: Why Should The Rich Have A Higher Tax %?

    Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:13 am

    Define your terms (preferably with documentation to support them) that support paying just 3% tax on his income.

    From the horses mouth. Here.

    And while you're all banging your heads against the wall because the rich have got it so gosh darn tough - they pay all the taxes, you know, I'd like to consider this:

    The US national debt is something like $7 Trillion. This year alone, we add $450 Billion to that number. This is money we are borrowing from places like China and Japan to fund, amongst other things, an unjustified war in Iraq.

    A conservative estimate assesses that one-third of that $450 billion deficit is a direct result of the Bush tax cuts. So, since the thought of having the rich make up the difference, we'll have to start thinking of ways to reduce that debt.

    The two biggest outlays the federal government has is Social Security (funded by payroll not income taxes) and the DOD. So advocates of "fairness for the wealthy" - where do you want to start making cuts? Which defence programs go? How many police should we lay off? How many road projects on the interstates should be immediately slashed? The INS could use some pruning too, and let's just ditch the TSA while we're at it. The FAA is an expense we can't afford, so it has to go to.

    Come on tax-cutters! The onus is on you to explain how you pay for it all!

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