trijetfan1
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Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:35 am

I was talking to my uncle, and he said when he went to China, he was monitored heavily by the government. They always made sure what he bought, who he met with and where he went. Also he had to get invited in to the country. And this made me wonder, due to all the terror threats, should the US moniter people coming from the middle east as the governemnt did to my uncle in China?

Personal Opinion: Im up for anything the could limit terrorist from coming into our country.
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N863DA
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:42 am

Personal Opinion: Im up for anything the could limit terrorist from coming into our country.

Very good. Be sure to tell them on which wall you would like your telescreen. Send my regards to Miniluv; I hear they've redone the decor in Room 101.

FLY DELTA JETS




N 8 6 3 D A

[Edited 2004-09-13 03:44:04]
 
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B747-437B
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:48 am

should the US moniter people coming from the middle east

I take it you are not familiar with the NSEERS program that does exactly this?

http://www.amcits.com/nseers.asp
 
pacificjourney
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:19 am

When did your Uncle go to China .... 1951 ?

They don't monitor foreigners in China, fantasy over !
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
thetuna
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:48 pm

Send the arabs back where they came from, here in Britian!
He just ate the big one! Hog!...get away from that thing!! Just get away from it!
 
alaska739
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:54 pm

Well when they can overstay their visas, I'd say something is wrong with our monitoring of Middle East visitors. Perhaps they should use those ankle-band tracking devices like they put on parolees.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
north dakota sucks.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:57 pm

If totalitarian China is a model how to run society, then I say go ahead!
 
levent
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:33 am

My parents and I were once held by Dutch secret service agents upon leaving a shop in Rotterdam. They wanted to know for what we had bought some kitchen knives... Uhm... to cut meat??? We were on a holiday and came from Argentina, where my dad worked at the time.

And I´m sick and tired of getting stopped every time while passing customs in AMS, just because I have a darker skin and beard grow. They never found any drugs, fake watches, material to make explosives or whatever on me, by the way... This happens especially after a long night flight, when I didn´t shave.

Monitoring suspected people is fine with me, but not just because of the way they look!
 
trijetfan1
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:38 am

Forget the part about china, thats not the point. I think that we should be breathing down the middle eastern people's necks when they are here. They are in our country they have to go by our rules. If they dont like it, too bad for muhhamad!
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manni
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:39 am

Trijetfan1,

You've spelled Muhamad or Mohamad wrong. You'd do a pretty bad job tracking down those middle eastern people.  Yeah sure

But go ahead, the US is isolating themselfes more and more from what's on the other side of their borders. When you're a granddad you might going to tell your grandchildren that you once met an Arab, when you were still very young. Or was it a Chinees?  Laugh out loud
 
levent
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:50 am

Heh, I lost count of all the times I´ve been insulted for being Saddam´s boyfriend or an Arab terrorist... just because my skin´s darker and apparently I could be carrying explosives under my coat. I have a Dutch father and Turkish mother but don´t feel linked to neither countries, nor have any religion. Nationalities and religions only bring trouble, as far as I´m concerned.

And Americans wonder why they´re being slaughtered in the Middle East... please no replies on that, it´s just my opinion.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:28 am

Yes. The US should monitor (at the very least) if not restrict travel by Arab males 18-40 into the US, particularly those from Saudi Arabia, Egypt & Yemen.

Last time I checked, the US govt was there to PROTECT US citizens. They dropped the ball on 9-11.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
AMS
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:56 am

And I´m sick and tired of getting stopped every time while passing customs in AMS, just because I have a darker skin and beard grow. They never found any drugs, fake watches, material to make explosives or whatever on me, by the way... This happens especially after a long night flight, when I didn´t shave.

Levent,
Dutch people also get stopped at Customs for possible inspections, This can happen at any time. Off course it can take up some of your time away; but
if you have nothing to hide then there is nothing to worry about. Also at AMS there are many Customs staff from different ethnic backgrounds, If do not have a good or neat appearance; then there is a higher possibility to be stopped by immigration.

Regards,
AMS
 
L.1011
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:05 am

Personal Opinion: Im up for anything the could limit terrorist from coming into our country.

That is an extremely dangerous statement.
 
levent
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:18 am

AMS, I know that customs and police are doing their duty and to them my big nose is the same as any other Middle Eastern type guy´s. But it´s every time the same! Once upon disembarking from a flight out of Turkey the agents stood at the gate and let everyone in front of me (all Dutch) go. My parents also, while my mother is Turkish but doesn´t cover her hair. And guess whom they stopped? I still said ´goedemorgen´ to be friendly and got no reply, I was asked for my passport which surprisingly to them is Dutch... Imagine their faces when my parents were already a long way down the hall and I shouted to them: "Hey, wait a minute, I of course have to show my passport again!" in perfect Dutch. The chick´s face turned completely red and she gave me back my passport swiftly without saying anything else. I really find this very irritating!
 
airtran737
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:22 am

I for one say that we need to close the borders, and kick every non english speaking piece of garbage out of this country. Either speak the language, or get the hell out. We should monitor eveyone who visits this country, you are a guest here. If you dont like our rules climb on a plane and leave.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
levent
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:26 am

"... kick every non english speaking piece of garbage out of this country."

Well, turn that rule around and that would quite limit the number of countries Americans are allowed to travel too. It would certainly stop lots of wars!

By the way: did you know "english" should be written with a capital E?
 
airtran737
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RE: Should The US Monitor Visitors From The Mid. East?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:33 am

I'm well aware of how English is spelled, but when you're typing in a hurry, you don't always worry about those kinds of things.

I should have been more specific in my post. I do think that profiling is okay. Who blew up the WTC? It wasn't a group of white guys who were mad about the fact that M.A.S.H. was taken off of the air. Rather it was men of Arab descent. We need to know who is coming into our country, and if when I'm standing in the customs line and I clear customs before some guy with a towel on his head, the so be it. That's the price you pay in this country for being different.

You shouldn't be allowed to live here without being able to speak the language. America is over run with foreigners who don't even attempt to speak the language. I respect people speaking their native language in order to uphold their traditions, but I hate people who sneak into this country and try to milk the system. Every Citizen should have to be able to pass a citizenship test, and if they can't pass, then they need to leave. I'm sure that other people feel the same way about their own country. I personally am sick and tired of America being the "World's Melting Pot." We need to go back to a period of isolationism like we were before WWII, only this time we will be prepared for attack.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
levent
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:58 am

There is a difference between "knowing who is entering the country" and "kicking every non english speaking piece of garbage out of this country". I do agree with you on checking who enters the country, that´s what customs are for.
But getting back to the language issue, turn the situation around now: Do all Americans living as expats outside the US speak the country´s language? I was in Thailand for a year and none of them seem to even try to learn Thai. Let alone Dutch, German, Japanese, Arabic... you name it.
I support people seeking asylum because they´re escaping from a war, and I also hate to see certain persons take advantage of a country´s social security system. But do you think all "native" Americans who can work, actually do work? And please don´t blame their unemployment on the foreigners taking all jobs: those foreigners are doing the dirty jobs for a few dirty bucks because the "natives" are too proud to do it. Blame the employers for hiring them instead! It happens everywhere. And also remember that 1) without all those foreigners, and with the isolationism you´d like, the US wouldn´t be at its present level and 2) your country only exists a mere 200+ years, having "imported" most of its inhabitants from Europe and Africa.
Don´t get me wrong, I do respect everyone´s thoughts, but get annoyed if facts and emotions get mixed up in a wrong way.
 
bennett123
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:08 am


I am curious to know if everyone in the USA agrees with AirTran737.

What was the profile for the Oklahoma City bombers?.

I am also curious to know what Alaska739's reaction would be if other countries adopted the same measure for visitors from the USA.
 
L.1011
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:16 am

How about we kick AirTran737 out of the country. Good God. The United States should welcome all people to immigrate here, but I would support encouraging people to learn English in programs as soon as they arrive. This country is nothing without immigrants. Monitoring all visitors? This is the USA not the USSR
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:45 am

I don't think isolationism is such a bad idea...especially should Dumbya get (god forbid) four more years. Much better than warmongering unilateralism.

You shouldn't be allowed to live here without being able to speak the language.

AirTran737, you can't possibly imagine how funny this statement is, coming from an American. Come over to Prague, there's about 50.000 strong American expat community living in Prague, and my guess would be that Mormon missionaries are about the only ones really trying to learn the language.

[Edited 2004-09-16 02:04:08]
 
levent
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:00 am

I agree with you, L410Turbolet, another 4 years of him and some day he might hit that red button. Now that would certainly solve the Arab problem for the US...
A statement I will never forget is the attitude where the US wants persons who committed war crimes been brought to justice, but at the same time a US soldier, president or anything in between should be left alone by all means. I wonder what gives them more right to kill than others?
 
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:36 am

You shouldn't be allowed to live here without being able to speak the language.

While you are at it, perhaps you should start teaching English in American schools and not the bastardised version that currently massacres the language.
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:57 am

Yeah, of course! Let's profile Arabs. That would have done a whole LOT of good in catching these guys.











None of them Middle Eastern. All of them being held/wanted for questioning/supported the Taliban or Al-Qaeda. And of course, let's not forget the person responsible for the biggest terrorist act on American soil pre 9/11.



Yup. Harassing Middle Easterners would do a lot of good in stopping Islamic Fundamentalism given that not all Arabs are Muslim and not all Muslims are Arabs.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
levent
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:31 am

And how many Americans would have thought a fellow citizen instead of a "non-American terrorist" bombed Oklahoma? And how many Israelis would have thought a fellow citizen would kill Rabin? People are doomed to make their biggest mistakes by judging prematurely. Which is why I still wonder who will push the red button first.
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. E

Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:26 pm

Wow, I thought I was backwards, Airtran737 seems to have outdone me.

Should we track Middle Easterners who are in the country a little more closely? Probably. Will we? no that would be effective police work, aka profiling.

Personally, I think we should hunt anyone down whose visa has expired and either get them to renew it or kick them the hell out. Especially people on student visas, they should be the easiest to find.

There is nothing wrong with people coming here that don't speak the language, this country was founded by immigrants. However, I do think before you enter into the general public you really need to have a decent command of the English language. Honestly, what are the chances one of your professors is going to be able to answer your question in Chinese? What are the chances the guy getting into your cab will be able to tell you where to go in Farsi? The immigrants came here so I do think they need to adapt to America, not the other way around.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
22right
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:33 am

Airtran737 wrote:

Who blew up the WTC? It wasn't a group of white guys who were mad about the fact that M.A.S.H. was taken off of the air. Rather it was men of Arab descent.

Who blew up the Murrah Bldg in Oklahoma City? Oh golly, it was a bunch (or at least a couple) of white guys. Whether or not they were mad about the fact that M.A.S.H. was taken off the air is not quite known. But what is known is that these white guys killed over 150 innocent people. That includes several kids, who they later dismissed as nothing more than collateral damage.

Going by your logic and by the evidence so far, the US govt should start monitoring all white men in addition to people from the Middle East. All for this say Yay!
"I never apologize! I am sorry, but that's the way it is!" - Homer Simpson
 
levent
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:58 am

Yaj!

Isn´t it the same all over the place?
If a Moroccan guy kills his girlfriend, all Moroccan men are dangerous types.
If a Dutch guy rapes his own daughter, he must be sick in his head. No word about all the Dutch guys being potential rapists though....
(this is just an example taken out of a real-life situation in Holland, before getting things thrown to my head about nationalities...)

Hmmm... I always wondered why ladies hold on to their bags tighter if they see me walking behind them...
 
Schoenorama
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. E

Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:56 am

Now let's just for a moment imagine AirTran737's domestic policy regarding immigrants, those that do not speak English, the foreign students without visa's, ect. Do people really believe that by kicking out every illegal, non-American-English speaking foreigner, the US is a safer place? Will it foil Osama's plans for his next big terrorist attack on US soil? Will it prevent Osama's followers, in the next decades, from attacking the US?

I don't think so. I think that an organization that has 'successfully' carried out 3 hijackings on 'enemy territory' and 'successfully' carried out two major attacks in that same 'enemy territory' killing nearly 3,000 people, will not be stopped with the measures AirTran737 and others have in mind regarding immigration and foreigners. The measures AirTran737 has in mind only provide a feeling of increased safety and alertness, but these measures, apart from providing the enemy with valuable information on one's defences, will not prevent tomorrows' terrorists from wanting to attack the US no matter what.

Terrorism isn't something which can be dealt with by exterminating today all existing terrorists. Terrorists will always exists as long as they believe there is a reason for their attacks. One can adopt the most extreme security measures, these will not prevent these terrorists from trying to attack who they believe is their enemy. These terrorists might be Middle Eastern today, but might very well be Russian, African or even Indonesian tomorrow.

Instead of focussing on race and/or geography, one should look at the origins of these people's hate against the US to prevent terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda to emerge and eventually attack one in the decades to come. This is how one successfully combats terrorism. Preventing Middle Eastern people from entering the US and/or kiking out every illegal immigrant will not fight terrorism and will only increase the hate regarding the US amongst these groups.
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
qr332
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:48 am

Trijet,
Personal Opinion: Im up for anything the could limit terrorist from coming into our country.

Really? So all 1 billion Muslims are terrorists now. Ignorance at its very finest state...

Forget the part about china, thats not the point. I think that we should be breathing down the middle eastern people's necks when they are here. They are in our country they have to go by our rules. If they dont like it, too bad for muhhamad!

Tell you what TriJetfan, shoot us on arrival, it'll save you the trouble. And a man that lived about 1500 years ago won't be too worried about security at airports... and its Mohammed by the way.

AirTran,
I for one say that we need to close the borders, and kick every non english speaking piece of garbage out of this country. Either speak the language, or get the hell out. We should monitor eveyone who visits this country, you are a guest here. If you dont like our rules climb on a plane and leave.

Really? I hope its sarcasm, because more than half the world doesn't speak English you know... and America was built by immigarnts, so those peices of garbage were once your ancestors you know. Also, lets kick all Americans who dont know Arabic out of here, which leaves, what, 2 people? If you feel this strongly about not speaking a language, dont live at as ex-patriates in other countries, as you don't speak the language. You see the hypocracy here? So this is your solution to stopping terrorism, making the world hate you more?

Who blew up the WTC? It wasn't a group of white guys who were mad about the fact that M.A.S.H. was taken off of the air. Rather it was men of Arab descent.

I am an Arab, yet I despise these people. Just like 99% of Arabs. Oh, and by the way, many Arabs (especially from where I come from, Palestine) are white, so don't judge people by their skin colour.

Think before posting AirTran, you are saying very racsit and ignorant things here.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
trijetfan1
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:05 am

"Who blew up the Murrah Bldg in Oklahoma City? Oh golly, it was a bunch (or at least a couple) of white guys. Whether or not they were mad about the fact that M.A.S.H. was taken off the air is not quite known. But what is known is that these white guys killed over 150 innocent people. That includes several kids, who they later dismissed as nothing more than collateral damage.

Going by your logic and by the evidence so far, the US govt should start monitoring all white men in addition to people from the Middle East. All for this say Yay!"


Yeah but white guys aren't threatening to blow up the country......
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levent
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:20 am

Who says? Timothy might have lots of friends out there waiting for their chance. Any attack now would be linked to the Arabs anyway.
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:51 am

Yeah but white guys aren't threatening to blow up the country......

I beg your pardon, but were you asleep during that lovely period in the early '90s all the way up to September 11th when you had groups like the Freemen, the Branch Davidians and various militia groups - all of which were predominantly if not totally white, who were wanting to take a crack at the government? Did you somehow not hear about Ted Kaczynski who wanted to destroy progress in its track and put us back on track to a society not as reliant on technology?
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
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n229nw
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. E

Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:47 pm

I'm saddened by some of the rascist statements on here. I realize that there can be an intelligent dialogue about the balance between civil liberties and public safety, but the scary thing for me is how often those standing for racial profiling, both in the US and UK, show their true colors by making more generally ignorant and racist statements (things I've seen just on A.net threads include various offhand comments about "blowing the s**t out of Mecca," "nuking that whole part of the world," "stone-age peoples" etc). How people who claim to be spreading "liberty" can say things like that, and then claim not to understand why there are people who don't see America as a "liberator" is beyond me...

Anyway, on the actual subject at hand, I think all racial profiling in the long term has the opposite effect from that desired. First, I know from African-American friends that subtle things matter: seeing white women clutch their purses tighter when they get into an elevator, for example, is just part of the daily reminder that people aren't giving you the benefit of the doubt. It maintains an awareness of "us-versus-them" rather than a shared sense of humanity. On a less anecdotal level, pretty much every study done by sociologists and psychologists (on, for example, race and classroom performance) shows that people conform to other peoples' expectations, be they low or high expectations. So profiling only perpetuates the status quo.

Ultimately, blaming whole ethnic or racial groups for problems among a small percentage of their members is a big mistake, and just makes other members of the group feel victimized, so that they will have more reason to identify with the troublemakers if they are going to be blamed anyway. It is, after all, the same mental process that works in reverse: in other words, when people in the Middle East, or anywhere else for that matter, blame all Americans for the actions of a few, and direct their anger toward the whole group, it makes other Americans associate with the aggressive Americans rather than making them question the aggressive Americans and helping to resolve the situation. Each side drives the other in a cycle. That's how we got where we are today...and it isn't a nice place to be.
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
monorail
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 2:15 pm

If race can be overlooked for a minute, the US needs to restructure its monitoring of everyone here who's not a citizen. Visas expire, but then what? If they don't crack down on the hundreds and thousands here on expired visas, what good are we doing? The fact is we're letting people in and not really doing anything about it when they abuse our hospitality. It goes beyond those coming from the Middle East. Yes, that group is the one in question, but visa control needs to be taken more seriously.
Playoffs? Don't talk about playoffs!
 
qr332
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:26 pm

TriJet,
Yeah but white guys aren't threatening to blow up the country......

Neither are all Arabs.

Did you read any of my above post? Please do, it might hekp you a bit.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
airxliban
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:45 pm

As QR said, you can't judge a collection of people by certain individuals. This is an issue of a few people giving a whole lot of other people a bad name.

it is obviously working as some of you responding on this thread have bought into this ludicrasy.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
mrniji
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Tue Sep 21, 2004 8:27 am

You shouldn't be allowed to live here without being able to speak the language

AirTran, your irony kills me!  Big thumbs up You better learn the language first yourself or get out of here, you idiot. Look at your statements, all in inproper English:

- Rather it was men of Arab descent. We need to know who is coming into our country, and if when I'm standing in the customs line and I clear customs before some guy with a towel on his head, the so be it.

 Big thumbs up at least 3 mistakes

- We should monitor eveyone who visits this country, you are a guest here.

 Big thumbs up what a grammar structure!  Big thumbs up

- Every Citizen should have to be able to pass a citizenship test, and if they can't pass, then they need to leave.


We need to go back to a period of isolationism like we were before WWII, only this time we will be prepared for attack.

 Big thumbs up


And... I'm well aware of how English is spelled, but when you're typing in a hurry, you don't always worry about those kinds of things.

Hahaha!  Big thumbs up





"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
ltbewr
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RE: Should The US Moniter Visitors From The Mid. East?

Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:59 pm

During the 'cold war' era, and perhaps even today, some foreign citizens under visitor and some under diplomatic visas whom are in the US from a number of countries such as Russia and China are subject to monitoring and are restriced from going into or close to most military, government security and the sites of miltary contrators facilities because of fears of spying. Those who were "Commies" (including writers for example) were also subject to being denied visas and if granted one, where subect to monitoring. So in real time monitoring does and can occur, and if suspisious acting persons from a list of certain high risk countries and are in security sensitive area, they can face criminal and diplomatic penalities. Earlier this year, several Iranian nationals under diplomatic visas and working in NYC, were booted out because of questionable beheavor. Shortly after 9/11, access to the USA was considerably restricted with much tighter access to acquiring visas as to citizens to many mainly Islamic countries. In addition, citizens of many other countries are subject to a number of security procedures and scrutinay of the Customs and Immigration. If you monitor persons from the middle east, it should also include certain citizens of Israel as well, based upon their involvement in nuclear weapon development, other possible armenents, spying. I would suspect that US citizens in Saudia Arabia are subject to considerable monitoring by the government there to prevent Christian beliefs from being promoted, use/sale of alcohol, other banned items. Yes, the US is a relatively 'free' country, but people with well documented extreme anti-American/western beliefs and encouraging violence uppn them ought to kept out and subject to appropiate monitoring and if act in high risk beheavors, or for any promotion of acts of violence against America or our allies and subject to immediate deportation from the US.

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