Time to get over it turbo...Bush has won and Kerry will need 94%-97% of absantee ballots and that will not happen.

TechRep

I am a loyal Democrat. In my small town in New Jersey and in my home county (Bergen) Democrats won and dominate. I am saddened by the failure of Kerry/Edwards to win and that for all pratical measurements Bush/Chenney have won as of 6:00 am Nov. 3rd. Bush won with 51% of the vote. That probably win, with such a narrow margin, and with many large key states not in his favor (California, New York, Illinois in particular) should not be taken as an absolute mandate of approval of his policies. Bush also won as to emotionally strong social values issues, especially as to Gay Marriage. (All of the 11 states that had Anti-Gay Marriage measures on their ballots were passed)
The Democrats need to look very carefully to 2008. They need to start grooming canidates that will not be beholden to the extreme left wing of the party, especially as to social issues such as abortion, gay rights/marriage, stem cell research. They need to be as absolute on the war on terror as they were against Commiunism in the cold war era. They need to find canidates that do not have skeletons in the closet (Kerry as to speaking out against the Vietnam War and part of a questionable organization in the early 1970's). They need to have a canidate that has a moderate voting record on a wide range of issues and not clearly identifiable as a 'liberal'. They cannot have a canidate that will divide america such as Hillary Clinton.
Over the next 4 years, the Republicans may self-destruct. What happens in Iraq and the war against terror will be key. There is the fact that some key people will, as is usual, leave Bush's administration, like Sec. of State Powell, and replacements will be subject to intense scrutney by the Democrats. There will be huge battles over replacements to the Supreme Court as members die/ retire. There is still the possibility of another terror attack within the USA, which will be blamed upon Bush and the Republicans if it occurs. There is the probability of serious scandal, similar to the Iran-Contra of the Regean/Bush 41 era, possibly as to Halliburton's contracts and Chenny. There is the possiblity of Chenny not making it through the next 4 years due to scandal or his health. There is the probability that the growing numbers of people slipping into lower middle class status due to the transfer of good paying jobs to Asia and 3rd world countries will cause a reaction against the Republicans.
In the next 4 years we will live in interesting times.

Before you whine... Take notice. The Liberals were a mop last night and the Republicans were the janitor whipping the floor with them.

Crew member Virgin-whatever doesn't want to face reality.

[Edited 2004-11-03 13:41:29]

FLYYUL wrote, "I meant to say THAT ALL MAJOR AMERICAN URBAN cities went Democrat with a few exceptions,.

It just goes to show that America is still part of a redneck agenda, GUNS AND GAYS baby!!!"

Ahhh, NO. Think about why Democrats win in urban counties. It's because many of these urban areas are where most people who live off government social programs live. These people don't want to bite the hand that gives them hand outs.

The Republican Party is typically for smaller government and fewer freebies.

If you look at the 2000 election, Bush won counties representing 2,432,643 square miles of the US, to Gore's 577,029 square miles. The 2004 results will be very similar.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm

Ahhh, nothing better than whiney Canadians and Europeans! Call us dumb, call us stupid for electing Bush, but again who are you? Unimportant!

And that is exactly the unsavory attitude that has caused many to dislike the US. This entire "Troll" thread was designed to draw negative responses from the world. The mock surprise at people who take the "bait" is quite pathetic but also quite consistent with the thread starter's history.

If Bush does take Ohio and manages to win, I think we will see further isolation of the US as many countries distance themselves from them and their fundmentally faulty foreign policy.

This election has proven that many Americans still consider themselves the ultimate victim and innocent target. Unfortunately I fear that under this leadership they will continue to be a target.

"Unimportant"? Canada, the largest trade partner of the US and the main source of raw materials has historically been America's convenient next-door grocery store. Under the Bush administration we have had our economy seriously affected by political protectionism and outright revenge. We have still managed to have our economy grow at a higher rate of the US.

I personally hope that our country changes our focus to other markets that aren't based on the convenience of geographic position. European and Asian markets are the future for our raw materials and not the unstable psuedo-democracy to the south.

I have often stated that I don't hate Americans, but I consider the Bush adminstration's foreign policy idiotic and dangerous. That was before so many of you guys actually voted for this idiot again. I can only consider this an indication of the American culture overall which in my opinion, largely consists of people who just can't fathom the implications of placing this guy back in office....

Honestly guys, have some class. Bush has won....we're all on the same team now.  

Regards

we're all on the same team now.

Some of us do not want to belong to that team.. our democratic right of opposition 

Congrats to the old and new president!



Well done!

777heavy

Well OYRJA at least you got it partially right - we aren't a democracy, we're a republic

HA HA LOL

I can't believe N63 is still saying the same BS over and over again.
Learn what means democracy before you speak !

FLYYUL...Exactly!
I am amazed you even made fun of what Bush had been called, I went around thinking that such things would make you notice his way of comunicating and viewed the world, but no, now that he's reelected that contradicts his lack of interlectual knowledge and values?

Excuse me but don't say that this is the reason for him winning...LOL

I think 51% of the US showed that they are as bad as Moore and the rest of the world feared...

Boaz...

please, oh please, oh please, oh please.

The United States is a REPUBLIC, NOT a Democracy.

Someone further up said Bush never did win in 2000. I guess that means he can run again in 2008???!! Is that what you're saying?

I live in a county in Atlanta that is considered intellectual, high tech, but also has about 35% minorities, and with plenty of people living of the gov't dime- and the county went for Bush by a 2-1 margin. 140,000 votes to 71,000 votes. How's that fall into all the stereotypes listed above?

I have a question

Because you LWAK still beat the dead 2000 horse and say Bush was not elected the first time. Does that mean he can run again in 2008?

You know that we could all take a lesson from Arnold and take the opportunity to walk the high road. During his victory speech a member of the audience crowed an insult toward Davis and Arnold looked at him and wagged his finger saying "SHHH..no no no. we are not going to do that. We are going to work with everyone here, and we will reach out."

I know the liberal whiners, I mean participants on these forums have rarely done so, and that they will probably laugh at the idea, but perhaps we should sit back and let them vent and then focus on the positive things we are going to be able to do with a mandate from the American people, the largest vote count for one man in my memory, and the first majority win since 88.

Why don't the conservatives here take a breath, think about what we can suggest, and how we can help shape attitudes here and abroad with this forum we have. There are thousands of people reading these threads, and they interact with thousands more people. We can drop the acrimony and work the issues...in the words of Barak Obama last night we could agree to disagree without being disagreeable. It might require for BN747 to stop cussing out his opponents in threads, and for Klaus to maybe be a little less pedantic, and definitely for l-188 and myself along with others to maybe be less visibly aggravated with those who argue for gun-control.

or we can JUST KEEP DOING THE INSULT TANGO AND JUST SAY FORGET PROGRESS, LETS BLOW OFF STEAM UNPRODUCTIVE ARGUMENT RATHER THAN POSSIBLY COORDINATE PROGRESS WITH PRODUCTIVE DISCOURSE.

my $.02

Ian

p.s. it really does look like we won, don't it? houah.

[Edited 2004-11-03 16:43:17]

Hey Danpio, Bush is a republican NOT a president  

On a serious note, stop saying so much BS about topics you barely understand, that's pathetic.
Republics, Monarchies and so on are often ALSO democracies. When they are not, they are dictatorship, or autoritative regimes.

sebolino....va te faire. oh, I forgot we should become less antagonistic here. Sorry.

Nothing in the guys post seemed to be out of order.

And President Bush IS a president, whether or not you like it.

'Ahhh, nothing better than whiney Canadians and Europeans! Call us dumb, call us stupid for electing Bush, but again who are you? Unimportant! Haha Euros now you can go back to your lives of poor hygeine and whining about the "mean" Americans.'

Dear Jcs17, first of all have you ever been in Europe (or left the US)? Secondly I know you don't care about anything so why do you keep telling? People saying things like what you said, make citizens over here differ their opinion about the US, the nation that was incredibly admired by almost everyone over here. Luckily I know that there are a lot of smart and nice people in the US who do care and are interested in what is happening across the borders.

PH-BFA

All the INTELLECTUAL parts of America (California, New York, Mass, Penn) all voted Kerry... all the major cities in Ohio, Florida, Michigan, Wisconsin voted KERRY!!!!!!.


That's also the areas with the highest violent crime rate.

sebolino....va te faire

Very impolite. You should say "va te faire, Monsieur".

Dear Jcs17, first of all have you ever been in Europe (or left the US)?

Three times to Europe, going to to be four in the Spring. I go to Canada pretty much every month.

People saying things like what you said, make citizens over here differ their opinion about the US, the nation that was incredibly admired by almost everyone over here

What? You can't admire our nation because a political figure who you disagree with was elected by AMERICANS. I don't care if I go to Europe and people are rude to me, that's their problem--not mine. Pretty juvenile at best.

Luckily I know that there are a lot of smart and nice people in the US who do care and are interested in what is happening across the borders.

I'm not "nice" now because I voted for Bush...brilliant logic in that statement. You can be interested in what's happening in America, you can have an opinion, but when these opinions cross the line into blind, manic hate I will say something.

What? You can't admire our nation because a political figure who you disagree with was elected by AMERICANS. I don't care if I go to Europe and people are rude to me, that's their problem--not mine. Pretty juvenile at best.

I did not say that, I said people saying things like this:

'but again who are you? Unimportant! Haha Euros now you can go back to your lives of poor hygeine and whining about the "mean" Americans.'

I don't care who you vote for. Probably I would even have voted for Bush anyway if I lived in the US. That's right I would have voted for BUSH.
so that's not the issue. But your stupid and utterly ignorant remarks about Europe are in my opinion just plain dumb. Nowhere did I mention that you should not vote for Bush.

my 2 cents

PH-BFA


[Edited 2004-11-03 16:44:39]

[Edited 2004-11-03 16:45:57]

sebolino .. vous aves raison, pardonnez moi.

How do you say 'kiss my ass' in French?  

phbfa Do not make the arrogant assumption that a person who dislikes European attitudes has never been there, and is an uniformed yokel.

But your stupid and utterly ignorant remarks about Europe are in my opinion just plain dumb.

So the remarks before I posted my rant were completely valid? That Americans were idiots and that Bush supporters are Rednecks? Hey, if you can't take the heat, tell your European brethren to stop dishing it out. I wouldn't have even posted on this thread had it not been for the disgusting ignorance that had initially been posted.

'phbfa Do not make the arrogant assumption that a person who dislikes European attitudes has never been there, and is an uniformed yokel.'

'Haha Euros now you can go back to your lives of poor hygeine '

Where the hell did he go then to experience poor hygeine????

PH-BFA

How do you say 'kiss my ass' in French?

Donnez mois une bijou sur mon derrierre?  

Perhaps to a country where people have different standards of body odor tolerance and personal hygiene. It is well known that people from different cultures have differing dietary habits and standards for acceptable behaviour. Less so now than before, but it is still fairly common to find some Europeans less bothered by sweat and body odor than Americans who are known to shower twice a day and have value the appearance of their teeth.

I speak from the experience of growing up in Europe every summer, and visiting every year.

Lbtewer in post 52 summed up how I feel.

I wanted to get everyone's opinion on this values issue. I believe "values" won it for GWB. I mean, what else won it for him? His diplomatic skills are atrocious, jobs were lost during his first term, millions have no health care, the war proved to be misguided, and Osama is still making home movies.

So, that leads me to values. One issue is gay marriage, which I find a big waste of time. I mean, how can Republicans -- who HATE government intervention even for something beneficial like health care -- support a government effort to ban gay marriages? Talk about a double-standard.

And what difference -- really -- does someone's religion make? Last time I checked this was a secular nation. It's not like Kerry is an atheist. I absolutely resent Bush's overt efforts to wear God on his sleeve for political gain. It ultimately sets a dangerous precedent that blurs the separation of church and state and aligns us closer with fanatical, religion-based governments.

Help me understand. I don't want to stir up a partisan discussion here -- I'm looking for some comment on the role of values in the American electorate.

Where the hell did he go then to experience poor hygeine????

Oh, its a stereotypical joke. Although that one time on an 85 degree day in Paris when our Metro train broke down between stations, I really gained an appreciation for America's love for deodorant.

Although that one time on an 85 degree day in Paris when our Metro train broke down between stations, I really gained an appreciation for America's love for deodorant.

Sounds like taking the NYC subway on a hot summerday as well  
But maybe the people I could smell were french. You never know  

Thing is that I don't understand how interllectuals can vote for an uninterllectual President!
That is what I think disturbs many Europeans...

And why don't you see this concern to be of a good heart? This is concern and disapointment is only diserved for things you like and have high hopes for!

I know and understand people in the US, but only 48% of the voters...

The rest I am simply not able to understand...

There are also people here in Denmark who supports him, even know one of the 10%...

But he says stuff like lets nuke Iran and North Korea, so civilians get killed, they hate the US anyways...

So maybe he can explain this better then?

I think you should acknowledge this criticism as it is out of concern rather than hatred...

Boaz...

'Oh, its a stereotypical joke'

Ah ok, did not know that, sorry for that. Anyway lets stop the bashing, no need for it. The US will remain a fascinating an inspiring country anyway. (regardless of its president). And I know most of the euro's will think so too.

PH-BFA

How do you say 'kiss my ass' in French?

Hmmm ... It doesn't sounds very good in French.

Donnez mois une bijou sur mon derrierre?

Actually, you just wrote "Give me a jewel on my ass". Perhaps not exactly what you meant.  


PS: You would say "Embrasse moi le cul" . Arf, it sounds so stupid  

I know how it sounds it French. I used to exchange cursewords with my campmates at the colonie des vacances when I was a kid...the other insult seemed to be more effective.

BTW here is a question I have always had...what does enfoire mean? Does it have something to do with damned?

well as the national map shows, it is obvious that yet again the middle states are making choices re: the economy and terrorism/safety for all of the coastal states that are high target, economically damaged areas.

i have nothing to argue about this election, i just have an overwhelming sense of disappointment. but im young, so i suppose i ought to get used to disappointment, eh?

a question I have always had...what does enfoire mean?

LOL

It means something like bastard. Just like if your best friend fucks your girl friend. You will not say to him : "brave garçon", no no. You will say "sale enfoiré".
It can be said in a nice way however.

I have always had this in my vocabulary, and even used it properly. I just really did not know what the exact definition was. I see that the Francaise don't either.  

Our neighbor at my old office was told that the word salope described her perfectly by some certain person. When she asked what it meant I told her..I mean she was told that it was a French word to describe a woman of her charms and talent. She was so pleased with herself she actually had it printed on her personalized automobile license tag. I kid you not. Her cars license plate read SALOPE. I was horrified, but incredibly amused. I tried to tell her it was a bad idea, but her response to my effort reinforced that perhaps the description was accurate.

How do you say 'kiss my ass' in French?

Hmmm ... It doesn't sounds very good in French.

Donnez mois une bijou sur mon derrierre?

Actually, you just wrote "Give me a jewel on my ass". Perhaps not exactly what you meant.

Sorry... I have not passed the "Global Test."