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UAL747
Topic Author
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US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 4:53 am

I have been reading in the forums about the US aid to the Tsunami victims, and read some of the comments about the US from other members of the world community.

I came to this question: What does the world community want from US? I mean, what could we do to have that "Utopia" that many say we impede.

If we pulled all our troops home from international military bases, what would happen to the rest of the world? Some people, including me, think we involve ourselves in too many external international affairs. Perhaps if we scaled back our international influence, the world would be better?

If we stopped aiding other countries and focused on internal affairs, would that change the world's outlook?

But.......

My questions are contradictory to what has worked in history. The most stable world is a single-polar world with one dominant force. When the world starts to become multi-polar, similar to the times of WWI, WWII...the world becomes increasingly unstable. (From my international relations class).

Is the world ready to work together? Or do we still need the "police force" countries to keep us in line? If we brought all of our troops home, would the world benefit or crumble?

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Klaus
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Ual747

Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:02 am

Ual747: I came to this question: What does the world community want from US?

We want your government to really and seriously consider what others might have to say.

That´s about it. Terrible that it needs to be said at all.

Troop withdrawals and any other external things are irrelevant compared to that one simple request.
 
dl021
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:07 am

Klaus...what happens when the US government listens but decides to go contrary to what your particular government wants?

Troop withdrawals would destabilize a great part of the world, by implying an abandonment of our allies and encouraging other nations to try and fill the void or create self-motivated unrest.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Matt D
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:15 am

There's NOTHING we can do. No matter what choice(s) we make, someone will find a way to take a chop at the US.

We are the biggest, strongest, and wealthiest nation on the planet. Many (but not necessarily ALL) people simply hate us for that. That's the beginning of it. That's the end of it. But it's a sign of weakness to actually admit being jealous and envious so it's simply easier to disguise that resentment by voicing supposed "disagreement" of our policies.

Now if we were to take-say a few dozen billion dollars in cash, weapons, and infrastructure and give it to (to pick a country at random) say, Syria, then suddenly they would be our best friends. If the White House were moved-say to Amsterdam, then the Euro's would love us. If we were to shut down Ford, GM, and Chrysler and let the Japanese show us their "wisdom" by taking over our car market, then they would love us....

and so on and so on.



 
airplay
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:45 am

We are the biggest, strongest, and wealthiest nation on the planet.

You guys really need to lose the attitude. Biggest? in what way? Strongest? You guys can't even control a your own much less a few hundred arabs without spreading yourselves thin.

Wealthiest? That is somewhat subjective isn't it?

America is just a big bully that seeks oportunity and exploits anyone it can for profit. Biggest, strongest wealthiest? What arrogance. How about most corrupt, ignorant and inept?
 
aerobalance
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:48 am

Taliban rule, as Osama would like......
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
UAL747
Topic Author
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:54 am

"What arrogance. How about most corrupt, ignorant and inept?"


Airplay....spare me.

Most corrupt? I can think of dozens of other nations that a just a tad more corrupt than the US.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Matt D
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:55 am

Ok...if I'm wrong....then give me another reason why every last wiseass out there wants to take a shot at us.
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:57 am

America is just a big bully that seeks oportunity and exploits anyone it can for profit. Biggest, strongest wealthiest? What arrogance. How about most corrupt, ignorant and inept?

Anyone want to challenge the assertion that this is Anti-Americanism?

Corrupt? FACTS please...seems we have no more corruption than your average G8 country. Seriously, corrupt compared to who? You? Every government has a degree of corruption. You yourself peddle and agenda on these boards...

Ignorant? You don't even know much about what goes on south of your own border, so you're one to talk. Interesting how you generalize us. No one argues that we have some hot-headed numskulls, but we have no more of those than does any country...including Canada...ie, YOU!

Inept? Ok, let's pull the aid out of South East Asia and watch millions die. Sorry, we won't do that though.

As much as some idiots like to make sweeping generalizations and demonize anything that doesn't conform to their narrow though processes (or severe lack thereof), America is by no means perfect. But as MattD was trying to state, as we are the world's only remaining superpower, we are the easiest target for criticism.

Have a nice day Airplay.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
jfkaua
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:59 am


You guys can't even control a your own much less a few hundred arabs without spreading yourselves thin.

------------
oh so your telling me the canadian army can do it?
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:02 am

I think he owes everyone an explanation by what he means "can't control you're own"...I don't see suicide bombers making daily attacks on New York.

The Iraq prison scandal?...sorry, no beans...those who did the abuse are being court martialed, so sounds like we have them pretty well controlled.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
Klaus
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:35 am

DL021: Klaus...what happens when the US government listens but decides to go contrary to what your particular government wants?

That´s absolutely normal between grown-up nations and is treated as such. Nobody expects you to blindly submit to the whim of anybody abroad. But listening to others and staying in the discussion even when conclusions may differ is what makes the difference between tyranny and a mature democratic process.


Airplay: America is just a big bully that seeks oportunity and exploits anyone it can for profit.

No, not just that; Even if it´s the image the current administration has chosen to put on the USA´s face. The sympathetic, nice, great and admirable sides are still there as well... they´re just not represented on the political level any more.


Airplay: Biggest, strongest wealthiest? What arrogance. How about most corrupt, ignorant and inept?

Come on; Every "red-blooded american" will bask in the glow of any superlative... Big grin
 
StowAway
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:36 am

Airplay...There is no debate that the US is the biggest power right now. With that comes responsibility. Naturally, resentment will come with it. Fact of life is that you just can't make everyone happy. I am not happy with France, but some people are.
A monkey's ass always talks crap.
 
Klaus
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StowAway

Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:38 am

StowAway: Airplay...There is no debate that the US is the biggest power right now. With that comes responsibility. Naturally, resentment will come with it.

No, it doesn´t. Abuse of that power is what is generating the unprecedented amount of resentment you´re experiencing right now.
 
StowAway
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Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:48 am

RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:44 am

No, it doesn´t. Abuse of that power is what is generating the unprecedented amount of resentment you´re experiencing right now.

Again, you miss the point. You have your idea of what abuse is. Other people's differ. Some people could perceive small moves from the US as abuse, hence it being natural that resentment will ensue. I really don't care what you think about the country, honestly. I am proud of our country, but I still acknowledge that we have issues. Every family has some disfunction to it, though.
A monkey's ass always talks crap.
 
Klaus
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StowAway

Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:57 am

StowAway: You have your idea of what abuse is. Other people's differ.

Starting wars on false pretenses easily qualifies, especially when about 80 to 90 percent of the world´s population has told you so before!


StowAway: Some people could perceive small moves from the US as abuse, hence it being natural that resentment will ensue.

Don´t kid yourself. It´s the big blood-dripping blot on your otherwise reasonably clean shirt that´s making people notice, not the small specks.


StowAway: I really don't care what you think about the country, honestly.

As long as justified criticism is simply ignored instead of being addressed, you´ve got no leading place in the civilized world. Simple as that.


StowAway: I am proud of our country, but I still acknowledge that we have issues.

As long as you deny others the right to name even the most outrageous "issues", you´re dragging your country down.

There aren´t any short cuts or rebates to being a role model.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:59 am

Airplay How about most corrupt, ignorant and inept?

I'm gonna bet, Airplay, that the United States is the only corrupt, ignorant, and inept nation on the planet too isn't it. I know there's no corruption, ignorance and ineptness in Canada. . . oh, my goodness, no. Ottawa is simply chock full of the most upstanding citizens on the planet.  Yeah sure

Show me a country, western, middle eastern, Asian or otherwise that isn't.

Klaus: Come on; Every "red-blooded american" will bask in the glow of any superlativez Why, thank you Sir.  Laugh out loud

As far as the United States goes, "you can please some of the people of the world some of the time, but not all of the people of the world all of the time". And to be perfectly honest with anyone and everyone, I don't give a damn if we please any of you any of the time. Now, how's that for arrogant!?  Big thumbs up

Everytime the sh!t hits fan in this world the United States is expected, expected mind you, to come running. And right we should, we are among the richest nations on this earth. And we come running whether or not the country in trouble thinks poorly of us . . . why, because it's the right thing to do.

Ya know, I think sometimes, there's something to be said for being an isolationist state, as the United States was prior to World War 2. It wouldn't work in today's world, but it has interesting possibilities.  Smokin cool


FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
VS340
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:25 am

Airplay,

This has to be one of the most assinine(sp), idiotic and hypocritical comments you could make. Maybe you should pull your head out of your ass and take a look at YOUR own government that is running this great country of ours and then try and tell me who’s government is “corrupt, ignorant, and inept” of course, and this is only an assumption, you probably voted for the Liberals, so all of that is invisible to you.

Despite the fact that I often disagree with some of the policies of the Bush administration, there is no question that the US is one of the most generous countries in the world, and that it is in many parts of the world necessary for them to be there. And for this I am glad they are there to help.

Despite problems with some of your policies, most of us do appreciate the US and its importance to us as a country. Airplay does not speak for all Canadians, only a small portion of them.

[Edited 2005-01-01 01:31:48]
 
StowAway
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:35 am

Klaus,
Starting wars on false pretenses easily qualifies, especially when about 80 to 90 percent of the world´s population has told you so before!

Again, your opinion. 80-90%? What solid source is that number from? I know you just didn't say it for the purpose of your point.....

As long as justified criticism is simply ignored instead of being addressed, you´ve got no leading place in the civilized world. Simple as that.

The criticism isn't necessarily ignored. Our country can take it as it pleases. If we were to change our position to try and please everybody, well, we had a candidate that was like that this past election. The country said no.  Smile

As long as you deny others the right to name even the most outrageous "issues", you´re dragging your country down.

Nobody is denied the right to name issues. I don't know where you get that from. However, it would be better if people like yourself would see pass a bias to take an objective look at things every now and then.



Happy new year!
A monkey's ass always talks crap.
 
StowAway
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:39 am

BTW, If you wanted to see what objective looks like, refer to VS340's post. He has issues with the Bush administration, but he doesn't let that get in the way when forming opinions. Very respectable....
A monkey's ass always talks crap.
 
Springbok747
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:43 am

Show me a country, western, middle eastern, Asian or otherwise that isn't.

Yup, very true. There is no such thing as a "completely corrupt-free" country. Even if there was one, it wouldn't last very long. Its just human nature...we are corrupt, no matter how high we think of ourselves and our morals.

oh so your telling me the canadian army can do it?

No, I don't think Airplay was implying that. You guys (the US) claim that you are "the biggest, strongest, and wealthiest nation on the planet." So, if you're all that..then I guess you should have no problems whatsoever dealing with a few thousand Arabs. Canadians never claimed their country to be the "biggest, strongest, nation".
אני תומך בישראל
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:45 am

If we were to change our position to try and please everybody, well, we had a candidate that was like that this past election. The country said no.

Here, Here Stowaway . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
StowAway
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:47 am

Off topic, but Springbok747 did you change your country?
A monkey's ass always talks crap.
 
Klaus
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StowAway

Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:06 am

StowAway: Again, your opinion. 80-90%? What solid source is that number from? I know you just didn't say it for the purpose of your point...

With the exception of Israel, to a lesser degree Poland and one or two others, about 80-90% of the populations of most countries polled (and the overwhelming majority of worldwide governments) didn´t believe the false pretenses for the Iraq invasion.


StowAway: The criticism isn't necessarily ignored.

That would be great. So why are critics (domestic american and worldwide) vilified as evil traitors or criminals instead of addressing the massive failures of policy that have really created the situation?


StowAway: Our country can take it as it pleases. If we were to change our position to try and please everybody, well, we had a candidate that was like that this past election. The country said no.

Nonsense. 51% of the voters couldn´t stand up to their responsibility to look the consequences of four years of failure in the eye and bolted for the presumed "easy exit" where blustering chauvinism promised to keep the lid on the pot. Denial is not a long-term solution, however. Returning veterans and flag-draped coffins have a way of breaking it up eventually.  Sad


StowAway: However, it would be better if people like yourself would see pass a bias to take an objective look at things every now and then.

I do. But as above, I generally present the points that are missing from a discussion.


StowAway: Happy new year!

Same to you. You´re going to need it.
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:10 am

This has to be one of the most assinine(sp), idiotic and hypocritical comments you could make. Maybe you should pull your head out of your ass and take a look at YOUR own government that is running this great country of ours and then try and tell me who’s government is “corrupt, ignorant, and inept” of course, and this is only an assumption, you probably voted for the Liberals, so all of that is invisible to you.

VS340, it is not I, or any other Canadian on this board who is declaring themselves the "biggest, strongest and wealthiest on the planet". Taking the discussion out of context and discussing the Canadian government is just silly. The fact that I speak of the US doesn't automatically mean I consider the Canadian government perfect. Your attempt to discredit my post using such an assumption is idiotic.

This sort of arrogance just begs for criticism. A true superpower uses diplomacy rather than "pre-emptive strikes". A true superpower participates with other countries to affect global change. Not unilateral regime change.

A true superpower maintains the respect and support of historic allies and gains new ones by acting responsibly not by attempting to force its friends hand by coercion.

Under the Bush administration, the US has earned contempt rather than respect. Fear rather than diplomatic reverence.

Generalizations? That’s hilarious. Some doofus declares the US the “biggest strongest and wealthiest on the planet” and I accused of making generalizations.

Taking care of their own? What I meant by that has to do with mainly with domestic policy and foreign policy that affects US citizens.

The so-called “wealthiest” nation seems to have a great deal of homeless people and others who are otherwise living in poverty. The “biggest” seems to be having trouble recruiting soldiers unless they raid the ghettos and collect people with little other prospects. The “strongest” nation is draining the national coffers fighting the wrong country.

oh so your telling me the canadian army can do it?

Not the point at all. Canada wouldn’t do it. It is the wrong thing to do. Canada tends to prefer to work with the UN and NATO. Unilateral military action just isn’t right in today’s global village. If you start unilaterally, expect to finish unilaterally. Bush made his multi-billion dollar bed and he, and all you idiots who voted for him can lie in it….and die in it.

Airplay does not speak for all Canadians, only a small portion of them.

VS340, I made no such declaration. I don't need you to disown me. Furthermore, what crystal ball exactly do you own that allows you to declare this? Before you post again, wait for the room to stop spinning....
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:11 am

Nonsense. 51% of the voters couldn´t stand up to their responsibility to look the consequences of four years of failure in the eye and bolted for the presumed "easy exit" where blustering chauvinism promised to keep the lid on the pot.

Well, now that's pure bullshit. Pres Bush, like him or not, was re-elected. He was voted in by popular vote. ANd, make sure you read this correctly, he got more popular votes than any other president in history of this country. Just want to make sure you read that. I'm sure you've heard it before, but you might want to re-read for a second or third time just so it sinks in.

Furthermore, more citizens turned out for this election than in any past election.

Wherer did you get this 51% of the voters couldn't stand up to their responsibility crap?
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
StowAway
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:27 am

Klaus, you bring up several points. Unfortunately they are all not objective. I can't emphasize the "o" word to you enough!

'Ole Webster defines it as:
3 a : expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations

The original, (and yes asinine), point posed by Airplay was about the resentment to the US. We know how you feel, but is there anything else to be put forward? Loose statistics just don't get it.

StowAway: Happy new year!

Same to you. You´re going to need it.


I have had four great ones....Thank you.
A monkey's ass always talks crap.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
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ANCFlyer

Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:29 am

ANCFlyer: Well, now that's pure bullshit. Pres Bush, like him or not, was re-elected. He was voted in by popular vote. ANd, make sure you read this correctly, he got more popular votes than any other president in history of this country. Just want to make sure you read that. I'm sure you've heard it before, but you might want to re-read for a second or third time just so it sinks in.

In a majority system, 51% of the votes are about as close as it gets. His opponent got more votes than any other challenger as well, just for comparison.  Insane


ANCFlyer: Wherer did you get this 51% of the voters couldn't stand up to their responsibility crap?

According to polls, Bush voters predominantly voted republican for "values" and religious reasons, while Kerry voters voted on policies.

My interpretation: Many had woken up, but still a few more tightly closed their eyes and hoped to somehow "wing it" through.

Bad mistake.  Sad
 
Springbok747
Posts: 3993
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:13 am

RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:59 am

StowAway,

Yup, decided to put the good ol' Aussie flag for the New Year (Well, I'm Australian too) Big grin


אני תומך בישראל
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
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StowAway

Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:01 am

StowAway: Klaus, you bring up several points. Unfortunately they are all not objective. I can't emphasize the "o" word to you enough!

As for objectivity, I´m still waiting for even an attempt to heal the wounds caused by waging war on false pretenses against the overwhelming resistance of the world´s population who didn´t fall for it, were still shoved aside and ultimately turned out to be right.

Facts. And one of the reasons why the current official US attitude is causing a continued steep decline in the international weight of the USA.

Politics and even more so war is heavily influenced, if not determined, by attitudes and collective relationships. The results are measurable in billions of dollars - and in casualties.  Sad


StowAway: Loose statistics just don't get it.

Those polls are very stable, statistically reliable and are only hardening as more time goes by without any attempt of a repair.


StowAway: I have had four great ones....Thank you.

Great. I´m sure the returning veterans and the families of those who won´t will appreciate your elation.

 
StowAway
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:48 am

RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:18 am

Klaus, you just can't call something as a fact without a solid source. You keep mentioning polls. Whose polls?

As for objectivity, I´m still waiting for even an attempt to heal the wounds caused by waging war on false pretenses against the overwhelming resistance of the world´s population who didn´t fall for it, were still shoved aside and ultimately turned out to be right.

Failing to be objective because of disagreements is not an excuse, but rather the reason. It is simple.

StowAway: I have had four great ones....Thank you.

Great. I´m sure the returning veterans and the families of those who won´t will appreciate your elation.


Again, another attempt at sensationalism. Klaus, the brave men and women overseas are fighting to make this country safe. They are fighting for a prosperous lifestyle back home.

You see it differently, and that is fine. Agree to disagree.  Big grin
A monkey's ass always talks crap.
 
Lurch
Posts: 721
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:21 am

If the US Military pulled out of every where I would give the middle east about 6 months then watch the WARS.

North and South Korea would merge one way ore another Peacefully ore at the end of a war!

Most of the other tin pot Dictators around the Globe would start picking fights with there neighbor's and we in the UK would probably get sucked in to a large number of them No Thanks!

The only people who would love the US to go home are the Former residents of Diego Garcia Island who are not allowed to go home!
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

StowAway

Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:56 am

StowAway: Klaus, you just can't call something as a fact without a solid source. You keep mentioning polls. Whose polls?

There have been numerous polls conducted about worldwide attitudes towards the US Iraq invasion. They are highly consistent and have been widely published. You´ll have no problems finding them if you´re interested.


StowAway: Failing to be objective because of disagreements is not an excuse, but rather the reason. It is simple.

You don´t get it. The objective facts have turned out to fly in the face of US claims in every single case where there was a disagreement. Sorry. You´ve got it backwards.


StowAway: Again, another attempt at sensationalism. Klaus, the brave men and women overseas are fighting to make this country safe. They are fighting for a prosperous lifestyle back home.

Facts:

• Iraq was no threat to the USA, to the US way of life or to any other country.

• The Iraq invasion is very obviously increasing hatred and terrorism on every level.

• Consequently, US and other soldiers are not fighting to make the USA safe, they´re fighting because of mistakes and failures of their leadership.

Facing reality is unavoidable. The later you finally get around to it, the more painful it will become.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:11 pm

Klaus According to polls, Bush voters predominantly voted republican for "values" and religious reasons, while Kerry voters voted on policies.

Which policies? Kerry had so many, depending on which state or congressional district or voting precinct he was in, no one knows! I've never seen a candidate more dis-jointed and - well, I hate to use this cliche but - flip flopping than Senator Kerry. I still don't know what policies Kerry stands/stood for.

SO, your answer to my question as to where the 51% comes from is your opinion that the folks that voted for President Bush were irresponsible; nothing credible, simply your opinion, is that correct? That's what I'm reading. I see no other source other than your opinion . . .

Mind you I'm not registered Republican, rather Independent. Thought I'd toss that out there for the liberal democrats before they start. . .

His opponent got more votes than any other challenger as well, just for comparison Yes he did, and it was an awesome thing to watch, a true fight to the finish. I'm glad to say that, depending on which "Fair and Balanced" news channel I watched (yeah, right, a fair and balanced news channel, that'll be the day) Alaska had the 3 Electoral Votes that put Bush over the top  Big thumbs up. (Hey, it's a big deal here, it's usually too late for us matter by the time our polls close).

By the by, forgot to say Happy New Year earlier.

Edited for typos . . . sorry

[Edited 2005-01-01 04:12:46]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
StowAway
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:15 pm

BTW, Thank you Alaska!
A monkey's ass always talks crap.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

ANCFlyer

Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:21 pm

ANCFlyer: Which policies?

Bush´s. No need to warm up those tired campaign clichés.


ANCFlyer: SO, your answer to my question as to where the 51% comes from is your opinion that the folks that voted for President Bush were irresponsible; nothing credible, simply your opinion, is that correct? That's what I'm reading. I see no other source other than your opinion . . .

It´s my interpretation of the poll results.
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:03 pm

Klaus, to claim the majority of voters were irresponsible is at least harsh if not arrogant. We may have a hard time understanding the outcome of the election but - so be it. Germans are among the least to tell Americans how to run a republic. The American souvereign decided to keep Bush in office, and no matter how narrowly (or not) the Bush administration was reelected - the election itself was fair and equal, interpretations are basically trivial or insignificant.
I support the right to arm bears
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:12 pm

interpretations are basically trivial or insignificant.

And at this point, mute until 2008.

FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:13 pm

Ual747, I wasn't aware any other country wants the U.S. to stop aiding other countries. Nor does any other country force the U.S. to pull out of Iraq.
Right now there is a broad common ground among nations with formerly different opinions. Even Germans and the French support Iraq to overcome the results of war.
I support the right to arm bears
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:48 pm

US pull all troops, what would happen...

Korea and Japan would be an even better place to live, woman would not be in fear at night in Okinawa or Itaewon.
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 6309
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sat Jan 01, 2005 8:49 pm

Klaus, the brave men and women overseas are fighting to make this country safe.

That's what they are told.

They are fighting for a prosperous lifestyle back home.

...and that's what the real reason is: OIL


Thanks for making that clear, Stow Away
 
Klaus
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NoUFO

Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:38 am

NoUFO: Klaus, to claim the majority of voters were irresponsible is at least harsh if not arrogant.

When people are dying as a result, pussyfooting around the causes doesn´t make much sense.
 
Thumper
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:39 pm

"VS340, it is not I, or any other Canadian on this board who is declaring themselves the "biggest, strongest and wealthiest on the planet". Taking the discussion out of context and discussing the Canadian government is just silly. The fact that I speak of the US doesn't automatically mean I consider the Canadian government perfect. Your attempt to discredit my post using such an assumption is idiotic.
VS340 it has taken many years for this idiot to show what a real jerk he is. Don't worry, Americans don't pay attention to him and know that Canadians are one of our true friends.
 
Boeing4ever
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:14 pm

US pull all troops, what would happen...

Korea and Japan would be an even better place to live, woman would not be in fear at night in Okinawa or Itaewon.


This comment is pure bullshit...and you know it Manni. If the US pulled out of that region, you could bet N. Korea would take that as a sign that they can have free reign over S. Korea and Japan...in addition Japan might be more inclined to take it upon itself to deter N. Korea...ie develop it's own nuclear weapons...and that is good for NOBODY.

One or two incidents involving soldiers raping women, and now the whole US military is nothing but a group of rapists in your eyes!? How Ignorant!

This sort of arrogance just begs for criticism. A true superpower uses diplomacy rather than "pre-emptive strikes". A true superpower participates with other countries to affect global change. Not unilateral regime change.

Arrogance? MattD made an observation that is for the most part accurate...like it or not, we are the last superpower, what you are defining is what a mature superpower should do, not what a superpower is.

A true superpower maintains the respect and support of historic allies and gains new ones by acting responsibly not by attempting to force its friends hand by coercion.

Yes, no doubt, but the fact remains, even before the Shrub, the US always took criticism. This relates to your next little gem...

Under the Bush administration, the US has earned contempt rather than respect. Fear rather than diplomatic reverence.

MattD's comments in no way were limited to the Bush administration. The US was the lone superpower well before the Shrub...and for you to try to back up your inane and very broad generalizations by limiting your example to Dubya is idiotic. Since your memory is selective, I'll remind you that the US took a lot of criticism before Dubya. Even Clinton was compared to Hitler during Operation Allied Force.

Generalizations? That’s hilarious. Some doofus declares the US the “biggest strongest and wealthiest on the planet” and I accused of making generalizations.

And another doofus (you) comes in and labels a WHOLE nation of people as arrogant, inept, and overall a bully based on one comment by one doofus in the US. Nice try, but we all know your agenda.

Taking care of their own? What I meant by that has to do with mainly with domestic policy and foreign policy that affects US citizens.

We take care of our own in this way better than most. No, it isn't perfect...but what right do you have to say that when the standard isn't much better? No country is perfect, US included.

The so-called “wealthiest” nation seems to have a great deal of homeless people and others who are otherwise living in poverty. The “biggest” seems to be having trouble recruiting soldiers unless they raid the ghettos and collect people with little other prospects. The “strongest” nation is draining the national coffers fighting the wrong country.

I don't know what MattD had in mind with biggest, and your "biggest" example is off the mark. Show me where the military "raids" ghettos and "collects" people for service.

"Wealthiest" comes from the economic power the US is. Again, no one here claims the US is perfect, (and don't give me the few right wing nut jobs there are...I am fully aware that you are the polar opposite nut job), but of course you have selective criticism. When the US isn't putting up enough aid to other countries, in your mind all of a sudden, there is no question that we are the wealthiest.

Don't bring Iraq into this. You know I don't agree with that war. You also should note that I feel 350 million USD in aid isn't enough for Southeast Asia (also note that that will not be the final amt. we send).

What we're discussing here is your arrogant, ignorant, and inept rant.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers


 
BH346
Posts: 3164
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RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:39 pm

Korea and Japan would be an even better place to live, woman would not be in fear at night in Okinawa or Itaewon.

So a few isolated incidents mean ALL USFK and USFJ personnel are rapists and criminals? You rarely hear about how Americans on Okinawa have been involved in the local community like participating in local festivities and cultural events (such as the dragon boat races in Naha Port) or sponsoring the Special Olympics. I believe US troops make up about 4% of Okinawa's population but are responsible for less than 1.5% of the crime that goes on there. Pull out the US bases in Okinawa and the local ecnomy there will collapse and the Okinawa Prefecture Government will lose about 9% of its income. Keep in mind that Okinawa is Japan's poorest prefecture. US troops don't just cling around the bases, you see them everywhere, in the malls, restaurants, and in cultural centers. Not to mention that it probably won't make the situation with North Korea and the tensions between China and Taiwan any better. While the bases have brought problems to Okinawa, the good outweighs the bad IMHO.
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:10 am

Zero tollerance regarding criminality is the answer, bullocks to decimal criminality even if the good outweight the bad. And we're not talking about just one or two incidents, how ignorant.
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:38 am

VS340 it has taken many years for this idiot to show what a real jerk he is. Don't worry, Americans don't pay attention to him and know that Canadians are one of our true friends.

Another nothing post from a nothing poster. Go thump yourself.....

Nice try, but we all know your agenda.

Agenda? And what exactly is my agenda in your opinion? Telling the truth? Does the truth hurt that much?

[Edited 2005-01-02 16:39:31]
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:46 am

Zero tollerance regarding criminality is the answer, bullocks to decimal criminality even if the good outweight the bad. And we're not talking about just one or two incidents, how ignorant.

Oh I'm ignorant? YOU are demonizing a whole group based on the actions of a few, and you have the nerve to call others ignorant. Please, show me what warped source you used to decipher that all US soldiers do is rape people.

Agenda? And what exactly is my agenda in your opinion? Telling the truth? Does the truth hurt that much?

You haven't presented any truth at all. All I see is your warped generalizations about Americans. Does that truth hurt you? You know my agenda? Exposing BS users for the liars and phonies they are, and sticking it to them when they have the nerve to pass off such BS as fact.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:33 am

You know my agenda? Exposing BS users for the liars and phonies they are, and sticking it to them when they have the nerve to pass off such BS as fact.

I guess that makes you the moral authority of A.net....

Why don't you spend some time explaining exactly what is BS about my posts instead of hurling insults. Try some real debate for once and maybe I'll take you seriously. Maybe practice at your high school debate team. It might help. Until then...pound sand Boeing4ever...
 
BH346
Posts: 3164
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2000 5:50 am

RE: US Pull All Troops Home, What Would Happen?

Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:32 am

Zero tollerance regarding criminality is the answer, bullocks to decimal criminality even if the good outweight the bad. And we're not talking about just one or two incidents, how ignorant.

It would be great if we could have no crimes committed by US military personnel in Okinawa but unfortunately, that's not possible. They're not perfect and those who choose to disobey local laws should be met with strict punishment. On the last major criminal case against a US soldier which involved rape back around 2002, the soldier was handed over to local authorities and actually got a fairly weak sentence... 3 1/2 years in jail. My point with the numbers were to show that the US military presence in Okinawa does not necessarily make it a more dangerous place. And the rapes committed by US troops are not as common as you're making them out to be. And if you're calling me ignorant, I haven't seen you backing up your statements...I'd be interested in seeing your sources as well.
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