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777236ER
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Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:26 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4199565.stm

All those promises of reform out the window, and we get to see even more clearly the true colours of the Catholic church. Have ANY cases gone to court yet?
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:55 am

Here we go again, pigeon-holing every last Catholic as a rapist and mobster because of the actions of a few. Guess what? The Catholic church is an organization larger than you can imagine, and cases like these are statistically going to show up in larger quantities than of other religions, it doesn't mean that Catholics preach rape! I personally hope all parties involved are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law to send a message that rape and coverups are not tolerated no matter how "holy" you are.


BTW, do you want me to list cover-ups performed by atheists? Maybe then their "true colors" will be exposed.  Insane
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yyz717
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:11 am

we get to see even more clearly the true colours of the Catholic church. Have ANY cases gone to court yet?

I agree completely with 777236ER. The RC church has been covering up sexual abuse on a wide scale for decades. It's time for some accountability.

Humans were not designed to be chaste, and the vast number of RC men who became priests to hide their homosexuality set up a 'perfect storm' for the widespread raping of altar boys.

Leaving my son alone with a RC priest would leave me as nervous as leaving him with Michael Jackson.

The Catholic church is an organization larger than you can imagine, and cases like these are statistically going to show up in larger quantities than of other religions,

But it's not happening in other religions. Only the RC church.

Here we go again, pigeon-holing every last Catholic as a rapist and mobster

Nope. Only the priests doing this are the rapists and monsters. And there are many of them. And what do we hear from the Pope???? Nothing but silence on this issue. Disgraceful.

And the Roman Catholics that go to church every Sunday without demanding justice from their local priest are effectively aiding and abetting the abuse of altar boys.
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Falcon84
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:18 am

But it's not happening in other religions. Only the RC church.

ROTFL. Horse shit. It is, and you know it.

777236ER just has to get in his fix of anti-Catholic, anti-God rhetoric every now and then, lest he goes nuts.
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yyz717
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:31 am

But it's not happening in other religions. Only the RC church.

ROTFL. Horse shit. It is, and you know it.


Virtually all the reported abuse is in the RC church. Alot of catholics (you perhaps?) prefer to bury their head in the sand and hope it will go away. But it won't.

777236ER just has to get in his fix of anti-Catholic, anti-God rhetoric every now and then, lest

So, you're mad at 777236ER for reporting the rape of a boy? But you're NOT mad at the rapist? Priorities?


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777236ER
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:34 am

I personally hope all parties involved are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law to send a message that rape and coverups are not tolerated no matter how "holy" you are.

Apparently the Catholic church don't believe that. This has gone far beyond a few loan instances, there is a worldwide and systematic coverup. The fact that it's still going on, despite the Catholic rhetoric, says everything you need to know about the Catholic management. Has ANY priest gone to court on rape charges?

ROTFL. Horse shit. It is, and you know it.

777236ER just has to get in his fix of anti-Catholic, anti-God rhetoric every now and then, lest he goes nuts.


Ignore the issue and blame me, good idea.
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:39 am

I agree completely with 777236ER. The RC church has been covering up sexual abuse on a wide scale for decades. It's time for some accountability.

I agree, wasn't that implied?


Humans were not designed to be chaste, and the vast number of RC men who became priests to hide their homosexuality set up a 'perfect storm' for the widespread raping of altar boys.

Nobody is forcing anybody to be a priest. That was the wrong choice for any one of those pedophiles to join the clergy, as they are the last type of people the church needs at the altar. Yes, the church should do a better job cleaning up the scum, but they're learning now.


Leaving my son alone with a RC priest would leave me as nervous as leaving him with Michael Jackson.

...and leaving my nephew alone with a Canadian would leave me as nervous as leaving him in the ghetto, as my nephew will likely be brutalized to death with a hockey stick. Your point?  Insane


But it's not happening in other religions. Only the RC church.

Woah! Somebody watch for flying pigs; I'm actually on the same page as Falcon!  Wow!

Sarcasm aside, Falcon said it like Lincoln said the Gettysburg Address, and I'll leave it at that.


Nope. Only the priests doing this are the rapists and monsters. And there are many of them. And what do we hear from the Pope???? Nothing but silence on this issue. Disgraceful.

Hmm, you avoided the "true colors of the Catholic Church" comment, and I don't know how well you can count, but there's far less than 1% who are pedophiles.

Hey, you know what though, on second thought I think you're right! I think we should immediately jail every Canadian living in America because I'm afraid of them beating up my little nephew with a hockey stick! Sounds good, doesn't it?!

On the topic of the pope, he ordered that several priests be excommunicated from the clergy due to their grave actions. Then again, I don't think him actually doing something right counts, because it goes against your bias of the Catholic Church.


And the Roman Catholics that go to church every Sunday without demanding justice from their local priest are effectively aiding and abetting the abuse of altar boys.

If you ever dared to step inside a Catholic Church and stop getting all your information from the internet, you'd see that the vast majority of priests DO condemn the pedophiles who are priests.
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777236ER
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:46 am

Nobody is forcing anybody to be a priest. That was the wrong choice for any one of those pedophiles to join the clergy, as they are the last type of people the church needs at the altar. Yes, the church should do a better job cleaning up the scum, but they're learning now.

This case shows that they're not learning.

Hmm, you avoided the "true colors of the Catholic Church" comment, and I don't know how well you can count, but there's far less than 1% who are pedophiles.

So if there are (conservatively) 10,000 priests in the world, that's less than 100 priests who are paedophiles - that's still a lot! It's not the number of paedophiles, it's the repeated cover up by the Church that's the disgusting thing.

If you ever dared to step inside a Catholic Church and stop getting all your information from the internet, you'd see that the vast majority of priests DO condemn the pedophiles who are priests.

It's ashame the upper management of the Catholic church doesn't share the same views.
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JOSEMEX
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:46 am

According to the link above:

>The man who was paid the compensation claimed Fr McCluskey made a sexual advance to him in Londonderry in 1992.<

Not to minimize the gravity of the situation but, is "sexual advance"= "rape"?


>But it's not happening in other religions. Only the RC church. <

LMAO. You might find the following link interesting, although I'm sure you will be quick to dismiss it as catholic propaganda:

http://www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm
 
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yyz717
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:47 am

If you ever dared to step inside a Catholic Church and stop getting all your information from the internet, you'd see that the vast majority of priests DO condemn the pedophiles who are priests.

Well, the meek protestations of priests on the odd Sunday afternoon seems to be doing little to end the widespread coverup within the church.

Isn't it odd???? ALL the attacks in this thread have been against 777236ER and myself for reporting/commenting on this. Not one "good" catholic has yet to comment on the poor rape victim in Northern Ireland. Seems to me too many Catholics are more interested in church PR than solving rapes.
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:48 am

Virtually all the reported abuse is in the RC church. Alot of catholics (you perhaps?) prefer to bury their head in the sand and hope it will go away. But it won't.

Virtually all the reported abuse is in the RC church. Sensationalism sells, and "fair and balanced" goes into bankrupcy every time.


Apparently the Catholic church don't believe that. This has gone far beyond a few loan instances, there is a worldwide and systematic coverup. The fact that it's still going on, despite the Catholic rhetoric, says everything you need to know about the Catholic management. Has ANY priest gone to court on rape charges?

Quite a few. Are you really that ignorant?


So, you're mad at 777236ER for reporting the rape of a boy? But you're NOT mad at the rapist? Priorities?

Ignore the issue and blame me, good idea.


All churches are human institutions inspired by God. None are created by him. I'm considerably angry at the rapists and like many Catholics don't think they should be representing the church. Then again, I'm an evil Catholic, I must be lying.  Insane
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:51 am

Isn't it odd???? ALL the attacks in this thread have been against 777236ER and myself for reporting/commenting on this. Not one "good" catholic has yet to comment on the poor rape victim in Northern Ireland. Seems to me too many Catholics are more interested in church PR than solving rapes.


I'm interested in both and have shown that. You're the one trying to smear the church and is less interested in solving rapes.


777236ER, I'll sum up my comments by stating that you're just continuing to pigeon-holing Catholics into the same boat as your pet "upper management". Continue on, but don't expect everybody to fall for your smokescreen.

[Edited 2005-01-23 20:54:35]
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777236ER
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:53 am

Not to minimize the gravity of the situation but, is "sexual advance"= "rape"?

Who knows. It never went to court.

Virtually all the reported abuse is in the RC church. Sensationalism sells, and "fair and balanced" goes into bankrupcy every time.

So without any evidence whatsoever, you blame the MEDIA? Anyone but the Church, eh?
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:57 am

So without any evidence whatsoever, you blame the MEDIA? Anyone but the Church, eh?


Quit tap-dancing. I hold accountable those who are to be held accountable, and those involved in the cover-ups I have held accountable. Did I mention that the Pope has excommunicated many priests for this? Did I also mention that many priests HAVE been brought to court? That's right, I DID, didn't I? Too bad you're ignoring the finer details, tsk tsk tsk.
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777236ER
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:06 am

Quit tap-dancing.

I'M tap dancing?! You're the one who's blamed me, Yyz717 and the media for what's happened to this boy.

I hold accountable those who are to be held accountable, and those involved in the cover-ups I have held accountable

Including me, Yyz717 and 777236ER!

Did I mention that the Pope has excommunicated many priests for this?

Including this priest? Oh...no.

Did I also mention that many priests HAVE been brought to court? That's right, I DID, didn't I? Too bad you're ignoring the finer details, tsk tsk tsk.

Evidence? Or merely wishful thinking. There has been a vile record of paedophile cover ups by the Catholic church over the past century, and this case highlights that the problems HAVEN'T gone away. The fine details are this: an alegation was made against this priest, the Church tried to pay off the guy.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:07 am

All those promises of reform out the window, and we get to see even more clearly the true colours of the Catholic church. Have ANY cases gone to court yet?

Where have you been... several high-profile cases landed rapist priest in prision. One even got himself killed in the big house-

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/08/23/geoghan/

Nope. Only the priests doing this are the rapists and monsters. And there are many of them. And what do we hear from the Pope???? Nothing but silence on this issue.

Are you kidding?? The Pope called every high-ranking Bishop and Cardnial to the Vatican and bitch slapped them all. The Vatican isn't to blame, the Dioces of Boston and Cardinal Law have some explaining to do. Remember kids, it's not just a sin, it's a felony!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3694757.stm

.But it's not happening in other religions. Only the RC church.

Contrary to popular belief, sexual and spousal abuse by Protestant ministers closely parallels the statistics within the Catholic Church. Difference being abusers were not covered-up and shifted to other churchs; they went to jail.

Has ANY priest gone to court on rape charges

Yes, and IMO they got exactly what they deserved.

Seems to me too many Catholics are more interested in church PR than solving rapes.

Go to hell... don't you dare tell me where my priorities are since you obviously know so much about my personal faith. I've had a religious experience unlike any other since my Jesuit upbrining,

I'm not a God-hugger, I'm passionate about human rights, dignity, and justice... so when I try to live every day of my life that way, I maintain the right to tell you to f*** off if you say I'm not doing it right. Of course I don't support the priest who raped children, what kind of monster would? There is incredible outrage at those priest within the Catholic Church, the outlash in Boston has been massive and tangible.

You blatently offend (and disrespect) those Catholics living what the Church stands for when you throw blanket statements on all of us.
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:07 am

Right-on SSTjumbo, welcome to my respected users list.
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yyz717
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:11 am

I hold accountable those who are to be held accountable, and those involved in the cover-ups I have held accountable.

While you go to church every Sunday like a good Catholic and not ruffling any feathers, right?  Insane

Did I mention that the Pope has excommunicated many priests for this?

Big deal. They're still walking around free in society. Perhaps continuing to rape and molest. Excommunication means nothing.

Quit tap-dancing.

What about your tap dancing? m You have not once mentioned the young rape victimin Northern Ireland yet. You've spent all your time attacking the commentators. Where are your priorities? Is the rape less important that church PR?
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777236ER
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:14 am

Where have you been... several high-profile cases landed rapist priest in prision. One even got himself killed in the big house-

A whole 'several'! Denying that the Church has covered up cases in the past makes you just as bad as them.

You blatently offend (and disrespect) those Catholics living what the Church stands for when you throw blanket statements on all of us.

At least I don't rape you.
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:20 am

What about your tap dancing? m You have not once mentioned the young rape victimin Northern Ireland yet. You've spent all your time attacking the commentators. Where are your priorities? Is the rape less important that church PR?

What have you been reading, the Sunday comics? I've said time and time again that this guy has to be held accountable to the fullest extent of church law and common law. Put on your reading cap.


While you go to church every Sunday like a good Catholic and not ruffling any feathers, right?

mmm, what?


Big deal. They're still walking around free in society. Perhaps continuing to rape and molest. Excommunication means nothing.

Umm, just by chance, have you been reading this thread at all? Give you a hint, there's a gentleman who calls himself DfwRevolution who has stated that one even was killed in the hot-house. Again, put on your reading cap.


I'M tap dancing?! You're the one who's blamed me, Yyz717 and the media for what's happened to this boy.

I blame the priests involved in the rapes for what they did; I blame the higher members involved in cover-up for what they did; I commend (note, not condemn) the media for bringing the case into the public but blame them for skewing the big picture; and I blame you and Yyz717 for running around like baby Hitlers. You're both better than that, so sharpen up.
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:23 am

A whole 'several'! Denying that the Church has covered up cases in the past makes you just as bad as them.

Reading a newspaper once in awhile helps.


At least I don't rape you.

Congratulations! Welcome to the everybody-else club.  Sleepy
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777236ER
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:26 am

and I blame you and Yyz717 for running around like baby Hitlers. You're both better than that, so sharpen up.

Comparing us to Hitler? We didn't deny the Holocaust...
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yyz717
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:31 am

and I blame you and Yyz717 for running around like baby Hitlers. You're both better than that, so sharpen up.

Now I've heard everything. Oh brother.  Insane

In the myopic eyes of SSTjumbo where the RC church reigns supreme, anyone who comments on the systematic widespread raping of altar boys is a 'baby Hitler'. Right. Got it.  Insane
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:39 am

Though you guys are continents away from Hitler's atrocities, you're continuously pigeon-holing Catholics for the deeds of few who call themselves Catholics, somewhat similar to what Hitler did with the Jews, Gypsies, and anybody else he felt like. It's perfectly fine and in fact healty to be angered by the cover up, but instead of suggesting how the problem can be solved, you're throwing gasoline on the problem. If you'd have suggested how it could have been solved instead of going on a hatred tirade, this thread would have gone the completely opposite direction.

Yes, I believe Fr. McCluskey should be held accountable for extortion to the fullest extent of church law and common law, and if the bishop knew of the extortion, he should be held equally accountable also. Now then, your discussion 777236ER, where's it going to go?
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777236ER
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:41 am

you're continuously pigeon-holing Catholics for the deeds of few who call themselves Catholics, somewhat similar to what Hitler did with the Jews, Gypsies, and anybody else he felt like.

Hitler murdered 3 million people. To compare me and Yyz717 to his is outrageous. Until you apologise for that, I think the discussion has ended.
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yyz717
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:46 am

Yes, I believe Fr. McCluskey should be held accountable for extortion to the fullest extent of church law and common law, and if the bishop knew of the extortion, he should be held equally accountable also.

Really? Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is? Are you willing to boycott your local RC church until the priest/bishop is charged?

As I said, any so-called "good" catholics who continue to go to church without raising this issue every week are aiding and abetting the widespread raping of these boys.

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SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:48 am

In the myopic eyes of SSTjumbo where the RC church reigns supreme, anyone who comments on the systematic widespread raping of altar boys is a 'baby Hitler'. Right. Got it.

Hoooooooooo boy, just lost one for the team, good goin!


1) My faith in God comes before any ties to the Roman Catholic church. If I'm called elsewhere, I'll follow, and if that's out of the church, that's where I'm headed.

2) Anyone who comments on the systematic widespread raping of altar boys includes practicing Catholics, also including the priests who condemned folks like Mr. McCluskey, so even though I agreed with them, they're still baby Hitlers? Hmm, that can't logically be right, can it?

3) Anyone who acts like a baby Hitler will be compared to a baby Hitler. That includes members of the KKK, that includes those who participate in Racism, Sexism, discrimination of Homosexuals (different topic), discrimination of Muslims, discrimination of all I haven't yet mentioned, and that includes those who make sweeping comments about large groups of people.
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jasepl
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:49 am

I think the primary reason the Catholic Church gets so much extra criticism on this matter is it's plain hypocricy.

St Peter's have plenty of venom to spew on relatively benign matters such as gay marriage in Canada or Spain, which is something that does not concern the Church directly nor does the Church have any juristiction or control over the issue.

One hears scarcely anything from the Church on it's own paedophiles and abusers, who are a danger to boys everywhere. And this is something that's continuing to happen within the Church and it's something the Church has almost full control over.
 
yukimizake
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:52 am

Since someone foolishly chose to bring up Hitler in this thread, perhaps they need to be reminded of the close ties between the Nazis and the catholic church. Next time you should be more careful when referencing evil dictators from the past.
 
SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:56 am

Hitler murdered 3 million people. To compare me and Yyz717 to his is outrageous. Until you apologise for that, I think the discussion has ended.

Pay attention, I said you were continents away. I don't know what's going on inside of you, but there's a severe hatred of anything Catholic. You choose to be anal about the discussion and not contribute anything positive, so you can end it wherever you please. That does not nullify the problem.


Really? Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is? Are you willing to boycott your local RC church until the priest/bishop is charged?

I have faith, I have beliefs, and you are not the voice of God, so I have no reason to pay attention to you.

As I said, any so-called "good" catholics who continue to go to church without raising this issue every week are aiding and abetting the widespread raping of these boys.

Keep the ignorance rollin! I'm attending masses where the church condems the guilty and pressures those in charge to make changes. Did you know such churches exist?


So it is, 777236ER and YyZ717 still choose to bury their heads in the sand. This is fun! I'll exploit you both all day! If you guys choose to provide new innovative ideas as to how to solve the problems, ideas that could work, we can have a great discussion. Until then, I'm waiting for the next run around the track.
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yyz717
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:05 am

Really? Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is? Are you willing to boycott your local RC church until the priest/bishop is charged?

I have faith, I have beliefs, and you are not the voice of God, so I have no reason to pay attention to you.


Ha! I knew it. Even the mass raping of altar boys by many priests and a resulting worldwide coverup, is not enough to make you hold your own church to task and accountability. What hypocracy. You should be walking a protest line outside your church if you were truly interested in justice for these pooir raped boys.

If you guys choose to provide new innovative ideas as to how to solve the problems, ideas that could work, we can have a great discussion.

Boycott the RC church until the hierarchy is held accountable. The power of the church is in meek catholics such as you who continue to worship amid systematic rapes, without asking questions.

Or, become a Protestant.

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SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:05 am

Yukimikaze, that is because the Catholics at that time still held the Jews accountable for the crucifixion of Christ, a foolish grudge on behalf of the Church. Post Vatican II has since stated that the Jews today have nothing to do with the crucifixion of Christ. Mmm, memories of a guy named Neil.  Laugh out loud


Jasepl, in all truth, I don't know what you guys hear in your country about the scandals, but the issue has been covered to a great extent in the States. Yes, members of the church (not the church as a whole) have been hypocritical about it, and we as a church are shamed by it. I pray for future generations to eradicate all the problems within the church.
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777236ER
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:06 am

So it is, 777236ER and YyZ717 still choose to bury their heads in the sand

Excuse me, you chose to blame me, him and the media for the alleged sexual assault of this boy. I'm still waiting for you to apologise after comparing me to Hitler.
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:12 am

Ha! I knew it. Even the mass raping of altar boys by many priests and a resulting worldwide coverup, is not enough to make you hold your own church to task and accountability. What hypocracy. You should be walking a protest line outside your church if you were truly interested in justice for these pooir raped boys.

Once again, you're reading what you want to read and not reading what I am saying. I will not attend a church that promotes the cover-ups. Not every Catholic church promotes the cover-ups, and most are angry over them. The latter is what I attend. There are many factions within the church, sweeping them into one dustpan is ignorant.


Boycott the RC church until the hierarchy is held accountable. The power of the church is in meek catholics such as you who continue to worship amid systematic rapes, without asking questions.

Or, become a Protestant.



Worship amid systematic rapes? I condemn those who rape! I don't participate in churches where they exist, nor do most other Catholics. We do ask questions, and we demand answers. Get your head out of the sand for once in your life, we've covered this multiple times in this thread.
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yyz717
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:13 am

I'm still waiting for you to apologise after comparing me to Hitler.

Me too. I'm also still waiting for SSTjumbo to give some thought to the poor raped catholic alter boy in Northern Ireland. SSTjumbo's focus continues to be on pushing church PR instead of the poor rape victims.

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SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:19 am

Excuse me, you chose to blame me, him and the media for the alleged sexual assault of this boy. I'm still waiting for you to apologise after comparing me to Hitler.

Quit crying. I've stated that you guys have absolutely zero to do with commiting the sexual encounters or covering up the scandal. It is your right and duty to report the allegations and be angry about them. When you attack me with sweeping allegations, that's when I cinch in the Kata Hajime until you submit or pass out.


[Mods, this thread isn't progressing anywhere. I'd suggest locking it]
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jasepl
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:22 am

Jasepl, in all truth, I don't know what you guys hear in your country about the scandals, but the issue has been covered to a great extent in the States. Yes, members of the church (not the church as a whole) have been hypocritical about it, and we as a church are shamed by it. I pray for future generations to eradicate all the problems within the church.

We do hear a fair amount about the scandals SST. One of the reasons for that is that little boys have been abused by Catholic priests everywhere, not just in America.

As for the hypocricy, I'm not talking about what goes on at the level of an individual church or parish or diocese. It's the Church as a whole that's been hypocritical. Like I said before, you don't hear any condemnation from Rome of the abusive priests. It's not enough that churchgoers individually decide to boycott the churches they feel harbour paedophiles. St Peter's need to be the ones to come out in a big, public way against this - by not doing so, they're effectively supporting the degenerate priests.
 
SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:25 am

SSTjumbo's focus continues to be on pushing church PR instead of the poor rape victims.


You've also continued to ignore my comments despite your own personal agenda. I've frequently condemned Mr. McCluskey. He must be held accountable both in church law and law of the land to send a serious message to the rest of the community. To the victim, on behalf of the Catholic church as a whole, I apologize to you for the henious actions of Mr. McCluskey and assure you that his actions don't represent the church as a whole.


777236ER and YyZ717, if you two wish to call stalemate, I'll end right here. Otherwise, only the mods will lock this discussion.
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777236ER
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:25 am

Pay attention, I said you were continents away. I don't know what's going on inside of you, but there's a severe hatred of anything Catholic. You choose to be anal about the discussion and not contribute anything positive, so you can end it wherever you please. That does not nullify the problem.

Now for posting this I have a severe hatred of anything Catholic! What evidence do you have that I hate everything Catholic? Or maybe it's wishful thinking to try and avoid the fact that it's the Catholic church, not me, who's in the wrong here?

When you attack me with sweeping allegations

I attacked the Catholic church, not you. You on the other hand, called me and Yyz717 Hitler.
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:31 am

Now for posting this I have a severe hatred of anything Catholic! What evidence do you have that I hate everything Catholic? Or maybe it's wishful thinking to try and avoid the fact that it's the Catholic church, not me, who's in the wrong here?


You know our history, you know what you've posted in the past, and you know I've confronted you many times on this subject. You have a long history of attacking the Catholic church, and that's what I'm confronting you over. Analyze this phrase: "Catholic Church At It Again". What does that mean?


I attacked the Catholic church, not you. You on the other hand, called me and Yyz717 Hitler.

I am a member of the church, and you said I was "at it again", then you whine about me calling you Hitler. I'm as hypocritical as you are here. If you're innocent, I'm innocent. If you're guilty, I'm guilty and will accept my guilt. What's your choice?
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777236ER
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:33 am

I am a member of the church, and you said I was "at it again", then you whine about me calling you Hitler.

As Yyz said, do you boycott the Church? Have you written to anyone in the Church to complain about this? I suspect not. I suspect you go to Church every Sunday as usual, give to the collection and don't give the boy in question a second thought.
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:38 am

As Yyz said, do you boycott the Church? Have you written to anyone in the Church to complain about this? I suspect not. I suspect you go to Church every Sunday as usual, give to the collection and don't give the boy in question a second thought.


1) Not as a whole, yes in parts. The Catholic Church is a franchise, not a singlehandedly managed institution.

2) Yes

3) Wrong

4) Yes

5) I'm broke

6) Boy in question? Our church has been the most vehement in educating the congregation and making them aware of the scandals in the church. The pastor has stated many times that "many of you will leave the church, but these are the facts and this is what's been uncovered."

7) H-T-M-L  Big grin

[Edited 2005-01-23 22:39:15]
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:41 am

We do hear a fair amount about the scandals SST. One of the reasons for that is that little boys have been abused by Catholic priests everywhere, not just in America.

As for the hypocricy, I'm not talking about what goes on at the level of an individual church or parish or diocese. It's the Church as a whole that's been hypocritical. Like I said before, you don't hear any condemnation from Rome of the abusive priests. It's not enough that churchgoers individually decide to boycott the churches they feel harbour paedophiles. St Peter's need to be the ones to come out in a big, public way against this - by not doing so, they're effectively supporting the degenerate priests.



First off, thanks for being civil about this.


DfwRevolution has stated that the pope has demanded that the archbishops remove those who are guilty from their positions, and certain people (cough, Boston) need a bit of cattle-prodding to get anywhere.
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777236ER
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:43 am

making them aware of the scandals in the church.

So you admit that the Church IS at it again? Good, that's one thing out of the way. Now all you have to do is apologise for comparing us to Hitler.
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:46 am

So you admit that the Church IS at it again? Good, that's one thing out of the way. Now all you have to do is apologise for comparing us to Hitler.


1) The Chicago Archdiocese, more specifically Our Lady of the Woods parish in Orland Park, IL, a church that condemns pedophilia by the clergy, is to be held responsible for what happend in Ireland? You need your head checked.

2) Depends on how guilty you are of your sweeping allegations that did in fact include me. Again, your choice.

[Edited 2005-01-23 22:47:42]
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777236ER
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:53 am

1) The Chicago Archdiocese, more specifically Our Lady of the Woods parish in Orland Park, IL, a church that condemns pedophilia by the clergy, is to be held responsible for what happend in Ireland? You need your head checked.

The Chicago Archdiocese is a member of the Catholic Church, right? The denomination is Catholic, yes?

Depends on how guilty you are of your sweeping allegations that did in fact include me. Again, your choice

You're a member of a Church that accepts paedophilia. That's not wrong.
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SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:00 am

The Chicago Archdiocese is a member of the Catholic Church, right? The denomination is Catholic, yes?

I've addressed this several times. Your point?


You're a member of a Church that accepts paedophilia. That's not wrong.

Ouch, you're feeling the effects of the Kata Hajime, major mis-spelled word and glowing semantic mistake both in one post!

Sarcasm aside, I'm not a member of a church that accepts pedophilia. I experience the church on a day to day basis. The only times you come in contact with the church are in threads like this. Find it in written church law where it specifically states that pedophilia by clergymen is allowed, that's your homework.
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777236ER
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:06 am

I've addressed this several times. Your point?

My point is you're arguing semantics. You've been vocal in your critism of everyone apart from a passing comment about the Church...which you claim isn't even YOUR church!

Ouch, you're feeling the effects of the Kata Hajime, major mis-spelled word and glowing semantic mistake both in one post!

What major mis-spelled (sic) word, and semantic mistake?

I'm not a member of a church that accepts pedophilia. I experience the church on a day to day basis. The only times you come in contact with the church are in threads like this. Find it in written church law where it specifically states that pedophilia by clergymen is allowed, that's your homework.

Whether it's written in a law or not isn't athe point, the history of Church coverups gives the Church no credibility - cases like this just go to show that nothing has changed in the Church. It's as bad as ever.
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jasepl
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:13 am

DfwRevolution has stated that the pope has demanded that the archbishops remove those who are guilty from their positions...

Thanks, I did not know that. Makes me wonder why though. Could it be because that obviously wasn't enough? Rome needs to be public about this. It isn't as if the abuses are a secret and they don't want anyone to know; everyone knows.


The Chicago Archdiocese, more specifically Our Lady of the Woods parish in Orland Park, IL, a church that condemns pedophilia by the clergy, is to be held responsible for what happend in Ireland?

Your parish or archdiocese are not responsible for what happens in Ireland or Austria or even in Wisconsin or Indiana. But the Vatican certainly is.

Unlike, for example, the Anglican Communion, the Church of Rome supposedly speaks with one voice, with the Pope as Supreme Commander, if you will. Words coming out of Lambeth aren't the final say in any matter; those coming out of St Peter's are supposed to be.

If, like dfw said, the more devolved Protestant denominations can ensure their abusive priests are defrocked and charged, what's keeping the centrally-controlled Cathloic Church from doing so?

[Edited 2005-01-23 23:16:15]
 
SSTjumbo
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RE: Catholic Church At It Again - Rape Coverup

Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:17 am

My point is you're arguing semantics. You've been vocal in your critism of everyone apart from a passing comment about the Church...which you claim isn't even YOUR church!


You have trouble accepting the big picture, that's fine if you're happy. It is my church, and that's why I condemn the actions. Should I boycott Pizza Huts across the world if one didn't follow sanitation procedures?


What major mis-spelled (sic) word, and semantic mistake?

That was a joke, but you spelled pedophilia wrong and said that supporting pedophilia is "not wrong." Hey, whatever makes you happy.


Whether it's written in a law or not isn't athe point, the history of Church coverups gives the Church no credibility - cases like this just go to show that nothing has changed in the Church. It's as bad as ever.

OUCH, YOU'RE FEELIN' IT!!!  Laugh out loud

Anyways, you're simply ignoring the orders sent down by the Pope to Archbishops in America to remove all those involved from power. I hope the same orders are sent to Archbishops across the world, that they will clean up the scum or be removed from power. It'll take some time, but the Roman Empire wasn't built in a day.
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