Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
dtwclipper
Topic Author
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

Fired Because You Smoke!

Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:13 am

Ok, I am a liberal through and through, and also a smoker...but this is just crazy!


Okemos company fires 4 employees for refusing smoking test

Monday, January 24, 2005

ASSOCIATED PRESS

LANSING -- Four employees of Okemos-based health benefits administrator Weyco Inc. have been fired for refusing to take a test that would determine whether they smoke cigarettes.

The company instituted a policy on Jan. 1 that makes it a firing offense to smoke -- even if done after business hours or at home, the Lansing State Journal reported Monday.

Weyco founder Howard Weyers said previously that he instituted the tough anti-smoking rule to shield his company from high health care costs.

"I don't want to pay for the results of smoking," he said.

The anti-smoking rule led one employee to quit work before the policy went into place. Since Jan. 1, four more people were shown the door when they balked at the anti-smoking test.

"They were terminated at that point," said Chief Financial Officer Gary Climes.



http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm2476_20050124.htm


Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
theCoz
Posts: 3933
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 11:06 am

RE: Fired Because You Smoke!

Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:28 am

This whole drug testing/smoke testing thing is BS. Anyone can who is on drugs/tobacco can find a way to cheat the test. On top of that, there are so many loop holes, it just becomes ridiculous.

What they're really testing for is people who aren't able to cheat the test.

I'm sure they will have to spend more money on other things with the problems that they will be having in regard to the no-smoking policy.

Fools.


 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Fired Because You Smoke!

Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:57 am

Okay, you are right, we need to be fair to smokers. Frankly there are people out there who are good and valuable workers who just happen to smoke.

How about this. You can smoke but you will not get the company-paid health insurance. Maybe you could even get an amount comparable to the cost of insuring you to spend as you wish. Hey, the way cigarette prices are going up you are going to need it. But the insurance company can keep the benefits up and the cost down for the rest of us who do not smoke.

Seems fair to me.
You get to smoke.
I don't have to pay for your smoking with my insurance.

Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Fired Because You Smoke!

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:07 am

Anyone can who is on drugs/tobacco can find a way to cheat the test.

That's funny.

All a urine test busts is potheads, so admittedly the really dangerous drug users get a free pass at places that only do that. The potheads thought for a while they could go get this stuff that you drink with about 2 gallons of water and that would beat the test. Now that test comes back as a "blocked" or "diluted sample" meaning the people giving the test know you were cheating. At best you get asked back to give another sample, at some companies they fire you on the spot.

Urine samples are checked for temperature, I hear that is what KROC does for a living, only he tests them by drinking. This makes it difficult to use someone else's urine. They also check horemones to make sure a guy is not using his wife's urine or something.

Where my girlfriend works they test hair. That test is pretty much impossible to beat. Oh and for people with no hair, they take a sample of your fingernail, that will indicate anything you have taken in the past month or two.

The best way to avoid getting busted by these tests: stop doing illegal things.

I know many companies that are trying to regulate smoking out of their employees lives. USAA has instituted a no smoking policy anywhere on their property. This probably has all 5 Americans left working for that company investing heavily in nicoderm because they have a pretty massive campus so a smoke break could take easily over an hour.

I do not smoke, but in the past at companies I had worked for I would take smoke breaks with the smokers. I would just go outside and stand around with them. I hated the idea that they were getting extra screw off time for killing themselves slowly. Companies are starting to get sick of the lost productivity smoke breaks are costing them. Expect to see more of this. If you do not like a particular company's policies you have a very simple solution: Work somewhere else.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15592
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Fired Because You Smoke!

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:11 am

Smokers/tobacco users can be required to pay more from Life insurance in the USA, and probably elsewhere, as a legitment risk factor. Perhaps smokers should be charged a larger premium co-pay by their employer, but not fired or denied employment, although they could be fired for smoking on the premises where illegal due to dangerous situations. There could be the makings of a good lawsuit here. If someone chooses to smoke away from their job, then while unhealthy and stupid, that is their business. What's next - alcohol use? Taking prescription drugs legally? What if a person has a psychlogical disease (like depression) and uses drugs to deal with symptoms and be able to work? How many of his employees, unknown to him, are wife or child abusers? How many drive too fast and risky? How many have sexual affairs? How many are Gay/Lesbian? How many support unions? This is going too far, and is the kind of thing that makes people go crazy.
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Fired Because You Smoke!

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:16 am

Captoveur re: your last paragraph. That is something that has always bugged me too. One of my old employers told me that he started smoking while working his way through college because the smokers got a cigarette break. I had mixed feelings about suggesting that smokers get the cash cost of the health insurance because it is rewarding an undesirable behaviour.

Big problem is it could cost you half a million dollars to die of lung cancer and if you are dying of lung cancer you are not going to have that money anymore. One way or another they will come to us non-smokers for it.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Fired Because You Smoke!

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:16 am

"What if a person has a psychlogical disease (like depression) and uses drugs to deal with symptoms and be able to work?"

There are many jobs where taking medication for psychological problems will get you canned, pilot comes immediately to mind. Some jobs involving high level security clearances are the same way. Some of those jobs will fire you for any kind of mental problem, even alchoholism.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Fired Because You Smoke!

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:30 am

Speaking for the major airlines, no airline will fire a pilot for having a psychological problem or for being an alcoholic.

They certainly will not let the pilot perform pilot duties.

Any number of other possibilities exist for what might happen, ranging from going onto paid disability to being released from employment for being unable to maintain the required FAA Medical Certificate.

When FAR Part 121 Appendix I (random drug testing) and Appendix J (alcohol testing) came to be, pilots got, sort of as a part of it, the means to get medical or psychological assistance to help with these problems.

You cannot fire a person for being an alcoholic. Alcoholism is officially a disease. That is a USG legal position and you cannot fire a person for having a disease. You may, and must, prevent their being a danger to the public.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Fired Because You Smoke!

Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:36 am

Ok so maybe my wording was bad, in the government jobs involving a high level clearance where your clearance is part of your abilities to do the job when you lose the clearance you lose the job. Maybe you lost the clearance because you were an alchoholic, this is sort of a chicken and the egg sort of thing. Same with letting a pilot go because he was not able to keep his medical because he had to go onto the happy pills.

It is a direct cause and effect thing, they just can't fire someone for the specific thing that causes them to be released, they need to find some other reason to avoid getting sued.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: Fired Because You Smoke!

Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:03 am

Smokers are just like any addicted drug user. Without a continuous dose of nicotine, they become desperate. They will do anything to get another smoke. Even if that includes lying to their employer or families.

The bottom line is that smoking reduces productivity. Smokers have two mind sets. One, “I’m smoking” and two, “I wish I was smoking”.

Many are forever making trips to the bathroom to sneak a few puffs or volunteering to run errands that take them to areas out of sight of supervisors or otherwise uncontrolled.

I think employers have the right to control their costs and barring smokers is well within that right. In a small company, all it takes is for one person to become seriously ill to drain the insurance benefits and raise the premiums for the rest.

I really don’t think the employer in this case is under any obligation to accommodate smokers. The same would go for employees that undertake dangerous hobbies. If someone who worked for me happened to enjoy alligator wrestling, you can bet that I would make it perfectly clear that he/she better come up with their own long term disability insurance.

Smoking is finally being exposed for the idiocy that is and us non-smokers refuse to put up with the fall-out.

I wonder how much longer Johnny Carson would have lived……
 
jaysit
Posts: 10185
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Fired Because You Smoke!

Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:55 am

Smokers are just like any addicted drug user. Without a continuous dose of nicotine, they become desperate.

You can say the same about fatty foods, sugar, alcohol, caffeine.

In a few years, big brother will be looking over your shoulder to see what you eat, drink, poop, and breathe. In short, unless you exercise 90 minutes a day, eat at least 4 salads a day, and ingest no sugars or caffeine, you'll face termination.

I wonder how much longer Johnny Carson would have lived……

He was 80 years old. I think that's a pretty good run. And I am sure he enjoyed every last cig he puffed on.

As a non-smoking, phsyically active male, I believe that it is the right of the individual to smoke, eat a big steak, enjoy a cocktail and feel satiated over a great dessert. The medical establishment has warned you about the effects of smoking and overindulgence. After that it is YOUR own responsibility. This unholy alliance between do-gooder whiny liberals and big brother corporations will be the undoing of us all.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: Fired Because You Smoke!

Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:21 am

Yes. Caffeine is just about as bad as nicotine for productivity. We are all bombarded with caffeine laced products. Why does Coke contain caffeine? Any coincidence that its so popular?

Sugar? Big steaks? We're taling about your work responsibilities. If you eat so much that it interferes with your work, your boss isn't under any obligation to accomodate you either.

But there's a big difference. Caffeine, Nicotine and alcohol for that matter are linked to chemical dependancy. Sugar, is just a carbohydrate. White sugar is the ultimate free-based carb. People who have uncontrollable sugar cravings aren't responding to the results of a chemical dependancy on a compound that has been proven to cause or agitate the development of a great many deadly diseases.
 
aa61hvy
Posts: 13021
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 1999 9:21 am

RE: Fired Because You Smoke!

Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:45 am

Good post Airplay.
--
I feel smoking is a personal choice, a lifestyle. If your contract says no smoking, then don't smoke, if not than smoke away.
Go big or go home
 
57AZ
Posts: 2371
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:55 pm

RE: Fired Because You Smoke!

Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:39 pm

You can't cheat the drug screen if you're a criminal, that's for certain. Primary reason is that the sample is tested immediately and if the primary test comes up positive, the sample is sent to a lab for secondary testing. Blocking, diluting or substitution is impossible as the subject is observed by the official conducting the test while they produce the sample. While I was interning, that was one of my less desirable responsibilities.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
chris78cpr
Posts: 2732
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:44 am

RE: Fired Because You Smoke!

Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:48 pm

Hell yeah! I think that anything that encourages smokers to stop is a good thing!

Lets now start firing their asses! Big grin

Chris
5D2/7D/1D2(soon to be a 1Dx) 17-40L/24-105L/70-200F2.8L/100-400L/24F1.4LII/50F1.2L/85F1.2LII

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Elkadad313 and 21 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos