31 Marines killed in chopper crash...........Four U.S. Marines were killed during combat in Iraq's Al-Anbar

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/26/iraq.main/index.html

Yesterday Bush asked for 80 Billion MORE....Billion with a B......Today 36 of our nations finest die........FOR WHAT.....It certianly isnt about terrorism after all Bush himself has said that Iraq and Saddam Hussain had no association with 9/11 or AlQueda.......Paul Wolfwitz told congress the only way that us USA citizens would have even begun to consider/approve a war in Iraq is if we felt threatened or that somehow Iraq had somthing to do with 9/11 so the old MUSHROOM CLOUD line was coined along with 45 MINUTES to LAUNCH and we for the most part bought it.....Where are the WMDs.....Syria some might say.....I say that is laughable.

Every reason that the USA invaded Iraq has been a lie.......Why are we protecting the OIL FIELD???????....oh.....speaking of OIL I thought that the profits from those wells were going to be used to pay for this WAR or was that the W Master just foolin us again?????

This Sunday 1/31 is Iraqs so called elections that will only serve to affirm the USAs choice for President of Iraq. I say on Feb 1, it is time for us to begin packing our troops up and gettin out of DODGE.......Democracy comes from an action of the heart not the MUZZLE of a rifle either the Iraqy people want it and are ready to take the battle on themselves they are not.


36 Soldiers DEAD.....80 Billion Buckeros.....120k Soldiers commited for another two years.......The headlines over the last 24 hours are reminders that we the USA are paying the biggest share of this so called WAR, none of which of those are worth it to me......HOW ABOUT YOU......Do You Feel Safer because we are fighting in Iraq?????

Rsmith, give it a rest!!!!

I read it in the news today, oh boy!!

Are you a town crier by chance, with an agenda?

Not once did you mention the thought of the people who were lost and any condolences to their families. I will now, but not for you.

My thoughts are with the deceased and to their families, RIP.

BTW, we haven't been attacked, yet, since 9/11, something is working, isn't it? Yes, I do feel safer. Not just from covert and overt operations by our government, but by my own due diligence to protect myself and my loved ones by making choices that will least likely put me in harms way. Think about it.

PS, does anybody love you or pay attention to you?

BTW, we haven't been attacked, yet, since 9/11, something is working, isn't it?

Tell me something, before 9/11 how many major attacks were there? Not too many, were there? Maybe, just maybe, these terrorists shoot their wad every 5 or 6 years on major attacks, and the rest of the time, they don't have the resources or ability to do anything major.

We're spending ourselves into oblivion, fighting some guy holed up in a fucking cave, and you want to tell me something is WORKING? Sounds like we're getting fleeced, to me. You and others are so freaking terrified of another attack you're willing to bankrupt the country. And guess what? We're really no safer than we we were on 9/12/01.

My condolences to the families of all these Marines killed today. It's a tragic loss, no matter where one stands on the justness of this war. To those families the loss is irreplacable.

But the point does need to be hammered home that this war has cost us more than is justified, in the minds of many. These young men and women aren't dying because we wanted Iraq free. They're dying becuase of an adminstration that is in the business of scaring the American people into giving them their way, and it worked in Iraq-at least to start.

We should grieve for the families of these Marines, but to dismiss the mess they're dying in is irresponsible as well.

Deadliest Day? Sorry but that chopper could have crashed anywhere. It has nothing to do with the fact Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen are in Iraq. Somebody drop an obsession pic on Randy cause dude needs to get a grip.

I think .... RSMITH NEEDS ..... to give it a rest. Yes, we need to CUT SPENDING, and .... the DEATHS ARE BAD, but you need to take a CHILL PILL. Can Rsmith bring up BUSH .... without mentioning OIL? Can he ever have a NON-BUSH thread? The world .... may NEVER KNOW.

BTW Rest in peace to all those killed. Horrible to see this news coming from the region all the time.

Harry

Falcon,

I'm highly critical of this war myself, I support it, but I'm critical of the 'other-agendas' involved. Instead of explaining why I am criticical, I first ask what is the alternative to this?

I'm not sure if discussions with the Al-Qaeda terrorist organization would ever be a good option, I don't equate Al-Qaeda and negotiations as a a common subject.

Those Marines were just as likely to die in that same helicopter had it been stateside doing training. Helicopters are mechanical objects, they break, sometimes when they break they fall out of the sky and people die.

You are going to die early of a heart attack if you keep banging out these flaming Bush bashings every time someone farts in Iraq

With the oil price going up and OPEC meeting on Jan. 30th to lower the production it is important to bush to get more troops down to iraw and secure those oilfields including the harbour of Basra.

of course the war is about oil. what else. its not about freedom.

RSmith - I kinda missed your daily rants - welcome back . . . sort of . . .

This chopper crash could have happened at Lejune, at 29 Stumps, at Bragg . . . the fact that it happened is tragic enough. My condolences to the families.

RSmith, don't belittle the deaths of these Marines by trying to include in one of your ranting and raving anti-Bush posts.

[Edited 2005-01-26 17:36:21]

God Bless those Marines who died, may the RIP.

Rsmith, are you going to post about every negative development in Iraq?

I'm not sure if discussions with the Al-Qaeda terrorist organization would ever be a good option, I don't equate Al-Qaeda and negotiations as a a common subject.

Don't mean to rain on your parade, but what did the invasion of Iraq have to do with Al Qaeda again? Besides opening the gates wide to Al qaeda after the invasion...

Deadliest Day? Sorry but that chopper could have crashed anywhere. It has nothing to do with the fact Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen are in Iraq.

How do you know that, KROC? The Pentagon has said it doesn't know the reason for the crash. It could have been enemy fire. If the Pentagon doesn't know yet, I suspect you don't either. So it's possible it couldn't have crashed "anywhere". Why don't we wait and hear from them first, before jumping to such conclusions?

Somebody drop an obsession pic on Randy cause dude needs to get a grip.

I agree, but other people need to get a grip that this war is a fucking mess, and a lot of fine young Americans are dying for something that just isn't wortht the cost, in lives and in money, to the American people.

You are going to die early of a heart attack if you keep banging out these flaming Bush bashings every time someone farts in Iraq.

And you'll die of naive bliss, because you never did see that we should never have been over there in the first place.

Rsmith6621a,

From me to you: if you continue to use every occasion, especially the unjustified, to lean that close to the limit, one day inevitably you are going to fall overboard.
Take a deep breath.

Where did I say we should be over there in the first place Falcon?

I conceded a long time ago that maybe this war wasn't the greatest idea, especially given the fact we didn't find the weapons the whole world was convinced Saddam had.

However,
I also acknowledge that the world is better off without Saddam in power.

I also understand that we can't just pick up and leave tomorow and pretend it never happened.

I also find it interesting that we haven't had a single terrorist attack on the US since we started actually fighting back. Maybe this war is good for something?

We are in there so we might as well try to make things better for the Iraqis.

Elsewhere on the same day: Nearly ten times that many died in a stampede at a temple in India.

Your point?

In the context of Iraq, Captoveur, your comparison means nothing. NOthing at all. The point is we're in a war that we simply cannot win anymore. And Mr. Bush has the deaths of almost 1500 Americans on his watch that history will judge as a boneheaded decision.

That's the point.

The way we know that an aircraft could crash anywhere is that they do.

Well, in 1987 a C-130 crashed on Sicily Drop Zone while conducting LAPES operations. In 1984 a DC-8 crashed carrying 200+ troops from the 101st back from the Sinai, and in the early '80's a C-130 carrying Rangers crashed at Ft. Irwin CA where the black mark still remains on the desert floor.

More recently we had a couple of helos crash while conducting training over a Navy ship.

Point is that aircraft with servicemen and women crash in all different kinds of places and the reason is that they are in machines doing things that we need them to do that are not always within the parameters of what you might call safe.

We don't know why this bird went in, but to use this as an attack on the Administration is kind of a pointless cheap shot. It also demeans the deaths of the troops on board.

DL021, what if it's found it was from enemy fire? Are you still going to excuse it as you have? If that's the case-and we do not know-then it couldn't have happened "just anywhere".

And it's not a cheap shot on your preceious adminsitration. They're the ones who sent these soldiers to occupy another nation. It's just putting the ultimate responsibility squarely where it belongs.

...but to use this as an attack on the Administration is kind of a pointless cheap shot. It also demeans the deaths of the troops on board.

But typical for some members of this forum. It's sad but some seem to take glee when Americans die since it fits their political agenda.

Scorpio,

I didn't know I was in, or viewing, a parade, so I have no idea what you are referring to. If you're using it as a figure of speech, then your negative stance to my question is not welcomed from me.

Iraq is the first country to be invaded, it will not be the last. Wherever Al-Qaeda operatives are, or those countries are who are actively sponsoring Al-Qaeda, will get a good examination by US Forces.

This 'process of stopping terrorist attacks on the US' will also be a long and trying process. This was explained in a speech by Pres. Bush after the 9/11 attacks. I support being proactive on stopping terrorists at their home locations.

It's sad but some seem to take glee when Americans die since it fits their political agenda.

Funny, this coming from someone who supports the war without question, B757300. Their deaths seemingly advances a political adgenda you don't even have the mental capacity to question, so their deaths must make you happy in that regard.

"In the context of Iraq, Captoveur, your comparison means nothing. NOthing at all. The point is we're in a war that we simply cannot win anymore."

I thought this thread was about a helicopter crash that probably would have happened no matter where it was flying. I guess you can't stick to the topic at hand. So Falcon, are you going to join Rsmith in pissing on the guys graves because they probably supported Bush and most likely thought they were fighting for a cause? Maybe when the troops come home you can line up along with Rsmith to spit on the guys getting off the planes.

You two really need more to worry about. The military is not the safest job on earth, your odds of dying in a stateside training accident are still about the same as dying in Iraq. Most people can accept this simple truth.

As for going down due to enemy fire, it could have happened but they probably would have said so by now if they thought that was the likely cause. Hell, that could happen in Kentucky. I knew someone who used to fly the drug enforcement cessna, he had to sit on bullet proof vests because people would shoot at him.

How do you know that, KROC? The Pentagon has said it doesn't know the reason for the crash. It could have been enemy fire. If the Pentagon doesn't know yet, I suspect you don't either. So it's possible it couldn't have crashed "anywhere". Why don't we wait and hear from them first, before jumping to such conclusions?

Leave it to Falcon84 to become a Randy Smith apologist. Well done. You should stick to topics about Cleveland beause thats the only place you are going ot have any credibility left.

The war was based on lies and nothing but lies.

WMD? Never there
Al-Qaeda Links? No clue
45 minutes attack? Gimme a break
Freedom in Iraq?? ROFL!!

That guy Dubya has thousands of troops of YOUR people and billions of dollars of YOUR money just because he THINKS God sent him to save the world. Of course, others say that his dad sent him to save his own and his friend's companies. Anyway.

And he told you a thousand lies just to make you feel in danger!! Orange alert my ass!! And people keep looking at their new neighbors to see if they look like a terrorist. McCarthy anyone?

Of course he got re-elected. With so many lies and danger-talking every american felt obligated to vote for him in order to fight terrorism. Breaking News: Terrorism is not near where you 're fighting.

People die in Iraq every day and dollars are spent each day while in the USA the infant mortality is higher that Cuba's and nowhere near the European standards. Keep liberating the world my friends. But next time try to find better excuses.

P.S. The Dubya re-elections teaches us that the bigger the lie the strongest the support. Send your kids and friends to Iraq then. See what's like to fight a war based on lies and nothing but lies. Better, go fight yourself. Why don't you enlist? Why?

Calm down Ovelix parakalo, how is the weather in Athens ?

Why does Rsmith always spell Iraqi "Iraqy?"

Just something that has been bothering me.

So Falcon, are you going to join Rsmith in pissing on the guys graves because they probably supported Bush and most likely thought they were fighting for a cause?

Did you not read where I expressed my condolences to the families of these young Marines? They're the primary thought here. Maybe you missed it. But it's there. But I also won't close my eyes to this war, either.

You two really need more to worry about.

ROTFL. A shooting war, where Americans are dying, is nothing to worrying about? I worry about what you're worried about there.

As for going down due to enemy fire, it could have happened but they probably would have said so by now if they thought that was the likely cause.

They say the cause is unknown. It may have been an accident, but again, the Pentagon doesn't know, and conjecture on either side is just that, conjecture.

Leave it to Falcon84 to become a Randy Smith apologist.

Stick it, KROC.   Someone has a similar view, and they're Rsmith, right? Typical conservative bullshit, eh? Ok, so everyone against the war, you're now as bad as Rsmith. Signed, KROC.

Maybe you should stick to talking about body hair, since that's the only place you have any credibility.


[Edited 2005-01-26 18:19:24]

Ovelix, another lefty loosey who finds joy in the death of American soldiers so he can have an excuse to go on a tirade about the justifications of the war. how pathetic.

Anyway, my heartfelt sympathies go out to those families who lost love ones.

Hey Falcon...1.) try and come up with your own material. 2.) I'm still not conservative. 3.) You outta try following your own advice. 4.) You need some other hobbies besides your incesent bitching about politics on here. Go be a father to your kids or something.

Hey, KROC. Nice to know you're such a hypocrite, having conversed with you. IF that's what you REALLY think, then maybe you should stay out of debates you don't have a clue about?

And people keep looking at their new neighbors to see if they look like a terrorist

If the boots fits . . . .

It's a good bet the 86 year old lady living next door to me isn't a terrorist . . . but watch all the PC SOBs at the airport drag her out of line (as example). Is that profiling? Probably. Is that okay with me? Damn sure is!

Falcon...you should stay out the political threads as well. You need a little...well ALOT of detatchment.

Al-Qaeda Links? No clue

I am going to agree with Ovelix on the no clue part regarding that comment. Except, the true clueless person is not who you think.  

Is it not interesting that THE DEADLIEST DAY IN IRAQ would happen on the very day that the one single person if she would have done HER JOB and had not LIED is being CONFIRMED today as this countrys HIGHEST AMBASSADOR.......This person is CONDI RICE.........


KROC Said......."Deadliest Day? Sorry but that chopper could have crashed anywhere. It has nothing to do with the fact Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen are in Iraq. Somebody drop an obsession pic on Randy cause dude needs to get a grip."

How can you sit there in your ignorance and say that!!!!!!!!!There is more justification regardless of the cause for this same Chopper crashing at let say Fort Benning or FT Stewart than any crash in a war that has been a LIE from day ONE......You Dont get it.....we are in Iraq fighting a BATTLE that is a LIE...God Will you all wake up.

And yes I do have sorrow for those familys who have lost someone today...In my job I have talked to MOTHERS who have lost their SONS who need to get family to the funneral...

Well, as far as I am concerned, I never voted for a president who told lies to the face of the entire world just to invade a country which posed no thread at all and could not attack anyone, let alone USA.

Some people here voted and continue to support a plain liar who now wants another 80 billion of their money and another bunch of young people to send them to death over a reason....someone please remind me the reason.

I never voted for such a guy. So, yes. I am cool.

New Rule: No more than 3 exclamation points at the end of the sentence. I am surprised that the damn key on your keyboard still works, RSmith!

How can you sit there in your ignorance and say that!!!!!!!!!

Oh my God, the irony is killing me!  

Harry

of course the war is about oil. what else. its not about freedom.

Ummm... Yeah... Back door "OIL" for food deals by corrupt individuals from certain UN countries who were opposed to the war. No corruption in the oil for food program, and no dissension from military action.

New Rule: No more than 3 exclamation points at the end of the sentence.

Not to mention he forgot the "?"

(I felt like being a grammar cop)

In Less than 6 Weeks we will have been in Iraq for TWO....2....YEARS....


Can anyone say what is the EXIT PLAN???????????...........

Are welcoming Mr. T on your signature?



Harry

I wanna know how this war was over oil? I am paying $1.76 for gas. The only people getting rich off Iraqi (note the spelling I-R-A-Q-I) oil seemed to be the French, Germans, Russians, and a few other people in the UN coalition of the unwilling. The oil companies who are supposedly in Dubya's pocket sure aren't getting rich off the higher oil prices, they are just passing the costs through to customers.

Note: Many oil companies did post large profits this year. This is because of a recovering economy and oil demand at or near an all time high. I should have an oil company's annual report to cite that from in a few weeks when they release their 2004 financials to stockholders.

As far as Dubya's lie.. Presidents before him (Reagan-Clinton), the UN, and most other world leaders seemed as sure as Bush was that there were WMD in there. Saddam wanted everyone to think he still had WMD because it gave him bargaining power with the UN and a certain level of deterrence against Israel, Iran, and he thought (correctly until 2000)the US was deterred as well. It is well documented, anytime Saddam thought a war was coming or he wanted something he would let the UN inspectors back in so he could jerk them around for about 6 months. Because the UN was allowing themselves to be jerked around about 10,000 Kurds in mass graves had to serve as reasonable proof there had at very least been some sort of WMD there at some point and the man was not afraid to use them. What about this is so hard to grasp?


http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lie

-Quote
lie2 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (l)
n.
A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.

v. lied, ly·ing, (lng) lies
v. intr.
To present false information with the intention of deceiving.
To convey a false image or impression: Appearances often lie.

v. tr.
To cause to be in a specific condition or affect in a specific way by telling falsehoods: You have lied yourself into trouble.
-End Quotation

The reason I posted that dictionary definition of "lie" is to demonstrate something. If you believe information you are acting on is true. You have checked, rechecked, and checked again your facts and you are sure beyond a REASONABLE DOUBT you are telling the truth, you are not lying. Acting on bad information and being proven wrong later is entirely different. Unless of course you are Rsmith, Falcon, or a few other people on here who think lying and acting on less than perfect information are the same thing when it suits their political agenda.

Many of the other countries did not want to go in because it would disrupt their own little middle eastern cash cow. We went in and now the world knows Saddam did not have any weapons of mass destruction, people all over the middle east can sleep soundly now that the fear of a nerve gas tipped Scud is gone. For an added bonus we now have Saddam sitting in a prison cell, maybe (hopefully) with underwear on his head.


Edit: I made an Rsmith level spelling mistake.

[Edited 2005-01-26 21:53:47]

"Are welcoming Mr. T on your signature?"

Harry NEWARK777 thank you for your insightful observation.

No problem, just trying to help.  

Harry

You guys are pathetic, rather than speak on the issues that RSmith has brought up, you're attacking him for his grammar.

What do you have to say about the 36 dead soldiers who died in Iraq today? Or how about the 20 dead Iraqis from the half dozen car bombings? Or do you have any honest reason as to why we went to war in the first place in Iraq?

Oh let me guess, you're just going to tell me to shutup, get over it, let it rest, etc. And then you'll correct my grammar.  

Raise Your Hands if Your Sure....



Doesnt he just make you proud to be an american?????

Wait till the day he makes the announcement that the DRAFT is being started again, I cant wait to see that image.

Captoveur very well put. I'm sure you're aware that the lefty looseys won't accept that and will resort to calling you an insane Bush lover.

Doesnt he just make you proud to be an american?????

It doesn't take him to make me proud I'm American . . .

Wait till the day he makes the announcement that the DRAFT is being started again, I cant wait to see that image

RSmith - can you say Bullshit . . . cause that's what this line is . . . pure and simple. . . . scare tactic by Mr. Flip Flop and the other Dumocrats . . . .

Doesnt he just make you proud to be an american?????

Yes.

BTW It's "you're," not "your."  

Harry

*sigh*

I know I will be branded a Bush lover. Last I checked I wasn't THAT fond of the guy. I only voted for him because out of the 3 options on the Texas ballot he was the best option which doesn't say much for the Democrats or Libertarians.

The draft proposal was shot down in the House and the Senate, not even the sponsors of the bill voted for it. I thought that would put that issue to bed but I guess not.