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TWFirst
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Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:46 pm

Amazing how the leaders of two neighboring 1st World Countries with very similar cultures can be so different.... Canada is so fabulous!

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/01/27/canada.marriage.reut/index.html
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
skyservice_330
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:26 am

Ironic part is that he is Catholic. However, he recognizes the fact that Canada is not a country of 2 classes of citizens and under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, we are all equal. I've never been prouder to be a Canadian.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:28 am

Well, I can always commute to Detroit from Windsor. The more I think about it, the better I would feel holding a Canadian Passport!


Something to think about!
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skyservice_330
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:31 am

From what I understand that isn't an uncommon practice, living in Windsor and working just across the river. Hell, my brother works with a guy in Toledo who commutes from Windsor.
 
captaingomes
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:41 am

I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly, Paul Martin said in his pre-election debates that he still believed in the traditional form of marriage from the perspective of the church as a man and a woman uniting. However, he also believed it was not up to the government to allow the church to override personal rights and freedoms. I feel the exact same way. I still don't understand two same sex partners getting married, but I also don't want a government that bases its decisions on religion. The role of religion is very important, but it should not be used for government policy.

I would still like to know what is the purpose of two same-sex people getting married though? Is it just a matter of recognition, or are there actual tangible benefits to be realized from this?
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
TWFirst
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:17 pm

>>I would still like to know what is the purpose of two same-sex people getting married though? Is it just a matter of recognition, or are there actual tangible benefits to be realized from this?<<

There certainly is in the states... over 1000 legal benefits available to married couples.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
greasespot
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:11 pm

I cannot stand the PM...but I am happy on his stance....Most of the anti gay marriage arguments are just recycled arguemnts that arose from the 1950's . Arguments that were against inter-racial marriage.....

For the record here in canada we have had gay marriage for over a year and i have not noticed the traditional family being threatend....

Even up here i think some of our rednecked politicians have crossed the line of intolerance and hate...

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
2H4
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:27 pm

For the record here in canada we have had gay marriage for over a year and i have not noticed the traditional family being threatend....


Yeah, god forbid the gays blemish the stellar, sub-50% marriage success rate we have here in the states...

 Insane


2H4
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StarAC17
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:40 pm

I don't think he supports it but I think that Mr. Martin understands that what he believes is that his opinion is not something that he has the right to enforce on the whole country. I would like to know what is wrong with two men or two women getting married except for what was said in the Bible.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
airplay
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:33 am

This illustrates the fundemental difference between Mr. Martin and Mr. Bush. I believe Mr. Martin understands that his personal beliefs are just one of many resources he must use in governing the country.

There is also the law of the land and the will of the people to consider.

Mr. Bush on the other hand, seems to think he has the right to by-pass the fundamental laws of the land and impose his personal beliefs. The US is a psuedo dictatorship in my opinion. "We the people" has been transformed into "Me the people".....
 
PDPsol
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:02 am

Guys,

You have no idea how much I admire and respect my Canadian brothers and sisters north of the border. I absolutely love Canadians and travel there frequently for work, mostly YYZ. I am sooooo envious of Canada's inspired and progressive social and political institutions and the ability of its society to grant true civil liberties to ALL its wonderful citizens.

Am I just a wee bit biased here? Well, perhaps I am; after all I am a gay man and have been absolutely devastated by the shameless introduction of religious theology into our political debate. Why are my fellow American's so obsessed with religious 'morality' they overlook the true meaning of our wonderful constitution and the civil rights it grants our citizens?

Canada advances; the US falls behind, at least on this issue...
 
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yyz717
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:25 am

This illustrates the fundemental difference between Mr. Martin and Mr. Bush. I believe Mr. Martin understands that his personal beliefs are just one of many resources he must use in governing the country.

There is also the law of the land and the will of the people to consider.

Mr. Bush on the other hand, seems to think he has the right to by-pass the fundamental laws of the land and impose his personal beliefs. The US is a psuedo dictatorship in my opinion.


Any oppty to throw in some more anti-American crap eh Airplay?  Yeah sure The fact is that both Martin and Bush are reacting to opinions in our respective countries. A slight majority of Cdns support gay marriage, hence Martin's stand is a safe one. A majority of Americans oppose gay marriage so Bush is simply following the wishes of his majority. I see no difference betw the 2. Bush is acting no different than Martin. Anyway, Bush is MORE the democrat than Martin since Bush just won a majority of the US popular vote. Martin has no such mandate up here.

I also support gay marriage, although I do not believe Martin's tactics are wholesome. He is using gay marriage to split the opposition more than as good social policy. Martin cannot be trusted.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
kevi747
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:45 am

Good, I've been looking for a place to take refuge in, Canada's great!!




"Mr. Bush on the other hand, seems to think he has the right to by-pass the fundamental laws of the land and impose his personal beliefs. The US is a psuedo dictatorship in my opinion."


I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. Our President made it clear what his views and plans were before the election, and he still won fair and square. He represents the outdated values of the average simple-minded American. Don't be mad at him anymore, he's just giving us what we've asked for.




"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
 
airplay
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:09 am

Any oppty to throw in some more anti-American crap eh Airplay?

Are you unable to discuss a topic maturely YYZ717? I respect your opinion, but I hold your writing style and childish statements in complete contempt. Try to control your emotions. You'll come across much more credibly....
 
SFOMEX
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:48 am

A slight majority of Cdns support gay marriage, hence Martin's stand is a safe one. A majority of Americans oppose gay marriage so Bush is simply following the wishes of his majority.

Yyz717 have got a point here. Politicians everywhere tend to play safe on this edge issues. Mr. Martin knows that he won't pay on the polls for his support of gay marriage. In America, not even Mr. Kerry supported gay marriage let alone President Bush. Why? Because they knew very well that would be politically suicidal. And that, believe me, happens everywhere. In my hometown, Mexico City, our governor is an agnostic, leftist politician who wants to run for president in two years. He was supportive of legislation giving Gay couples some rights under the figure of "civil unions". Yet, when he realized that outside the liberal Mexico City that legislation was hugely unpopular, he changed his mind and asked the local legislature (dominated by his party) to kill the initiative in order to keep alive his chances to be elected as president in two years.

The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
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yyz717
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:04 am

Any oppty to throw in some more anti-American crap eh Airplay?

Are you unable to discuss a topic maturely YYZ717?


I'm pointing out your thinly disguised attempt to badmouth the US and Bush at every oppty. Bush is acting no worse (or better) than Martin regarding gay marriage and you know it. But in your typically ludicrous fashion, you equate Bush's anti-gay marriage stance with a lack of democracy and dictatorship.

Your arguments are completely hollow when you paint the US as undemocratic and a dictatorship. You should learn to debate US issues with more maturity.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
LH423
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:05 pm

The US is a psuedo dictatorship in my opinion. "We the people" has been transformed into "Me the people".....

Please be a bit more informed about things before you say them. The fact is, nothing's changed in the political system. The US is no more of a dictatorship now than we were under Clinton or any other president. What has changed is that we have a very theocratic president and an American public who are willing to eat whatever he throws at them. The fact is, the US is entering into a conservative trend that will probably continue for at least the rest of this decade. This is why I more than ever plan to move to Canada anyway I can, be it through university, or other (LEGAL!) methods.

But, please Airplay, try not to be quite so dramatic.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
yukimizake
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:22 pm

"I also support gay marriage, although I do not believe Martin's tactics are wholesome. He is using gay marriage to split the opposition more than as good social policy. Martin cannot be trusted."

Martin likes to portray himself as being decisive and authoritative, however he's a fencesitter unwilling to take a personal stand on contentious issues. Although I find him somewhat untrustworthy, the alternative (Harper) is still worse.
 
skyservice_330
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:54 pm

Amen to that Yukimizake! Better the devil you know then the one you don't. Seems like that was a common theme last June (atleast to some folks I talked to) ... they didn't vote for Martin because they liked him but more because they didn't like Harper. Mostly a case of no good choice. As far as Harper being trustworthy ... well .... as my second sentence says ... rather a Martin who I know isn't susceptible to pressure from social conservatives than I Harper who is.
 
airplay
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:18 am

I'm pointing out your thinly disguised attempt to badmouth the US and Bush at every oppty

Thinly disguised? I thought it was quite clear that I was badmouthing Bush. And I will continue to do so because I think he is a dangerous man.

Please be a bit more informed about things before you say them. The fact is, nothing's changed in the political system. The US is no more of a dictatorship now than we were under Clinton or any other president. What has changed is that we have a very theocratic president and an American public who are willing to eat whatever he throws at them.

I don't recall Clinton proposing constitutional ammendment to impose his personal views out of fear that the courts would actually act on the will of the people and allow gay marriage.

That is what I was talking about when I said "Me the people". Bush knows his ideals wouldn't pass muster under the current laws. So he's pulling his weight to entrench his ideology.

I wonder what he'll propose next? Maybe a constitutional amendment to allow a president to run for a third term....

 
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yyz717
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:38 am

I don't recall Clinton proposing constitutional ammendment to impose his personal views out of fear that the courts would actually act on the will of the people and allow gay marriage.

Bush has a mandate to propose a constitutional amendment to entrench the definition of marriage as one man & one woman, whether you like it or not. He was just re-elected in a landslide and his views on marriage were well known. The American people support his view.

So do not attempt to paint Bush as anything less than democratic just because you don't like his views. This is childish.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
gigneil
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:44 am

But in your typically ludicrous fashion, you equate Bush's anti-gay marriage stance with a lack of democracy and dictatorship.

My fashion tends to stop short of ludicrous, but I can't help but agree.

America's democratic function is not to allow the majority to run wild at the expense of the minority, and that's what is happening and what Geo. Bush would propose.

Its not a dictatorship, but I smell a theocracy right around the corner.

N
 
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yyz717
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:52 am

America's democratic function is not to allow the majority to run wild at the expense of the minority, and that's what is happening and what Geo. Bush would propose.

Yes, I agree with you Neil. In this regard, GWB should be enshrining gay marriage rather than opposing it. We all know gay marriage will come to the US in due course -- it's inevitable from a human rights perspective. It will just take another administration to champion it.

But to call the US dictatorial and undemocratic and to say that GWB is imposing his personal beliefs, as Airplay has suggested, is such complete nonsense.

Gay marriage will come to the US. If Canada's parliament passes the coming gay marriage legislation as expected this spring, it will add a little more impetus to the US to do the same, and will be a huge boost to advocates in the US.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
StarAC17
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:02 am

Bush has a mandate to propose a constitutional amendment to entrench the definition of marriage as one man & one woman, whether you like it or not. He was just re-elected in a landslide and his views on marriage were well known.

Didn't Clinton win by a much wider margin in 1996 and I don't think he had a mandate, from what I have read an incumbent needs at least 55% of the popular vote to have one which bush didn't have, but somehow he thinks he does.
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LH423
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:21 am

That's the point Airplay. The president can propose til he's blue in the face, but at the end of the day they're just words on a piece of paper that hold no weight legally. Yes, it's damaging because support of a bill from the White House tends to gain additional votes in the House and Senate. However, despite White House support for a constitutional ban of gay marriage it still didn't pass.

While I certainly don't agree with the president's principles, to say the US as a democracy is much different is wrong. We're just becoming a democracy with less civil liberties  Pissed

they didn't vote for Martin because they liked him but more because they didn't like Harper

That sounds like our election. Almost everyone I spoke to who voted for Bush (and that's a very small number here in MA) voted for him because they disliked Kerry more. Way to go Democrats! Run a candidate that impassions people to vote for the opponent just so they don't have to deal with the other guy!  Insane

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
airplay
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:52 am

He was just re-elected in a landslide and his views on marriage were well known. The American people support his view.

Bwahahahahahaahahahah.....

You should read the newspaper before you write in this forum. Or at least read the definition of "landslide". In this context, Dictionary.com says:

Landslide: An overwhelming majority of votes for a political party or candidate.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Canadian Prime Minister Supports Gay Marriage

Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:05 am

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. Our President made it clear what his views and plans were before the election, and he still won fair and square. He represents the outdated values of the average simple-minded American. Don't be mad at him anymore, he's just giving us what we've asked for.

Excellent post, Kevi747. Very well said, and I agree with you 100%. The truth doesn't always make it easy for some of us, but in this one, you are correct.
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