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padcrasher
Topic Author
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Apology From An American Veteran

Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:54 pm

I'm sorry this Country voted Bush into office again. Please remember 48% of Americans voted against the guy. I'm also disappointed in Australia for voting in their Bush lackey. And Blair is a huge disgrace. I hoped better from the UK.
Just feel this needs to be said. The US has gone downhill in a huge way. It is a crying shame.
 
jcs17
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:01 pm

Well, according to my calculations 286 electoral votes beats 252. And 51% of the voting public beats 48%. Therefore, Kerry lost, Bush won.

How does that feel?

Let it sink in for a second...

YOUR PRESDIENT, FOR HIS SECOND TERM... WITH 60,608,582 VOTES

GEORGE W. BUSH

America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Theiler
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:05 pm

Entirely off topic, but the President's tie would make a cool JetBlue tail design.
 
daedaeg
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:50 pm

I'm sorry this Country voted Bush into office again. Please remember 48% of Americans voted against the guy. I'm also disappointed in Australia for voting in their Bush lackey. And Blair is a huge disgrace. I hoped better from the UK.
Just feel this needs to be said. The US has gone downhill in a huge way. It is a crying shame.


Oh God, not another liberal apologist. It's your ilk who destroys and devalues America, not Bush. But anyway, on with your whining.
Everyday you're alive is a good day.
 
Springbok747
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:08 pm

I'm also disappointed in Australia for voting in their Bush lackey.

Well, we voted for Mr. Howard because the other guy was an asshole. He quit soon after losing, I wonder what he would've done if he had actually won.
אני תומך בישראל
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:09 pm

I'm also disappointed in Australia for voting in their Bush lackey.

Here here! John Howard is a complete weakling. If only Opposition Leader Kim Beazley was in power - that guy loves the military so much we would be commandeering Thai aircraft carriers and deploying the fleet!!

As a pro-Iraq war liberal - John Howard or the "Bush Lackey" as you call him has failed on all fronts.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:20 pm

Well, if a MOD says it's okay then it's ok . . .

Bash Bush in the name of honorable veterans everywhere . . .

SHE can say what ever she wants . . . (that never really mattered to me, soldier is a soldier is a soldier - male, female - soldier is a soldier)

Honorable, decent veterans will know the difference . . . .

Have at it. . . .

By the by 2H4 MOD, are you a VET? How did you vote?

I bet I can guess.



[Edited 2005-01-29 08:43:34]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:49 pm

2H4I'm also not a veteran. Would prior military experience have enabled me to better understand how the thread title is misleading?

Last question first: Yes. you bet your ass it would. I guarantee it.

Her title thread implies there is something that American Veteran's, maybe in her case, have done something wrong and she's apologizing for it. In this case, it is a personal note . . . if she feels like apologizing, fine . . . let her apologize . . . but do not title the thread such that it appears that "veterans" are apologizing.

I do not condemn her dislike of Dubya . . . I condem the attempt, perhaps purposely, perhaps unconcously, to include thousands of honorable veterans in her "apology".





FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
2H4
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:03 pm

but do not title the thread such that it appears that "veterans" are apologizing.

It doesn't. The word "an" is used, indicating one.


2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
Gary2880
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:18 pm

Good on you, padcrasher -- there's hope for your country yet.

indeed, if only the rest of the country could be so remorseful

What's misleading about the thread title? If Padcrasher did in fact serve in the military, it's an apology from an American veteran. Oh, and according to her profile, "he" is a she.

ah the american way, running in without thinking or checking the facts and settling for the most rash form of action
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:56 pm

ANCFlyer,

I understand your passion, but I both agree and disagree with your reaction. Just because you loathe your Commander-in-Chief does not automatically get you tagged as dishonorable. The fact is that the things you have done for this great country has made the path for people like Padcrasher to voice thier opinions. (And thank you for your service by the way)

There is a scene in the movie "American President" where Micheal Douglas is giving a press conference that kinda sums up my point.....

America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've gotta want it bad, cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours." You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free.

Regards

I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
pilotaydin
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:03 pm

it seems that after 9/11 the country united, but after Iraq, the USA has split into their own groups even more...its a shame...i dont see unity amongst the american public anymore, and it's getting to the point where people might get violent soon or do something crazy against bush in the homeland.

ANC i have a question for you, and im not being Rhetorical, do you really feel that the young soldiers in the Iraqi theatre are doing anything good for an average american? Does the reshaping of Iraqi balance the needs of the American people? I am just trying to understand how Pres. Bush is planning on running the country he is in, when literally half of them don't like what he's doing...half of America is a large number!
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
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keesje
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:08 pm

What about this veteran selfworshipping? claiming to know more, be more able to judge, what ever, quit it

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
padcrasher
Topic Author
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:16 pm

Keesje

I totally agree about the veteran worshipping. This is the level of discourse in the US. If you're against the war that makes you un-American, unpatriotic. This is why I always let the other side know they're talking to a veteran. It knocks them off base. They've got this tired line of accusations about those who oppose Bush and veteran just doesnt fit it with it...LOL
 
padcrasher
Topic Author
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:22 pm

Ancflyer you still here? I see some of your posts were deleted and the thread still stands. I'm sorry about the clerical error in my title that mad you so mad.
As you said it's not about Bush it's about the misleading title.
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:42 pm

I think Jcs17 hit it on the head....the American people spoke, now deal with it. If Hanoi Kerry had won with the same margin that Bush had, the Dems would call it a complete landslide and deemed that America had made it's mind. So what if the Socialist Party of America lost because it put up Kerry?

I do believe you apology as a veteran represents .01% of servicemen. There would be no apology from them for what they're doing overseas, no apology for doing their orders....in fact, on election day, Fox News interviewed a bunch of Marines...ALL said they were going for Bush. Tells ya something doesn't it?

I never understood how a servicemember could serve, yet be liberal/socialist/leftist....that's basically saying you don't want a job, because you know the left will try to find a way to eliminate yours.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
Falcon84
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:45 am

Well, according to my calculations 286 electoral votes beats 252. And 51% of the voting public beats 48%. Therefore, Kerry lost, Bush won.

Gee, Jcs, thanks for telling us the obvious. I'm so glad you're hear to clear this stuff up. Seems to me the author of this thread didn't say otherwise did he.

You're such a freaking vindictive winner, that I cannot wait till you lose, and see you cry your eyes out.

Now, go kiss that picture of Bush, and fawn over him some more. It's what you seem to do best.  Smile

. If Hanoi Kerry

And it's asshole remarks like that that keep the American people divided. There is nothing "Hanoi Kerry" about the man, DeltaGuy. It's ingorance and arrogance like that that makes people like you and other sore winners loathed around the globe. Seems that even though you won, you still can't deal with it positively. Get over it, and move on.

the Dems would call it a complete landslide

Maybe a few on the fringe of the left, like Rsmith, would have, just like the extremists on the right like you are calling it for Bush, but it wouldn't have been a landslide by any measure of the word as applied to presidential politics. Hell, even though Clintion won BOTH his elections by larger margins than Bush, neither constituted anywhere near a landslide. LBJ in '64, Nixon in '72, and Reagan in '84 were the last "landslide" wins, or wins that would count as ones that could denote a mandate.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
air2gxs
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:54 am

You know, if you're against the war, it does not make you un-American or un-patriotic. What makes you un-American or un-patriotic is this:

I'm ashamed to be an American
I apologize for being American
I apologize for (take your pick)
President Bush is not my President
The troops in Iraq are the problem (to paraphrase the Senator for Mass.)

And countless other mantras being spouted by the liberals.

The right to dissent is a basic right of Americans. But dissent has to be responsible. What some people say can undermine our troop's morale, or even more importantly the morale and resolve of those, who for the first time in over 50 years, will be allowed a voice in their government.

 
Falcon84
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:58 am

President Bush is not my President

That certainly doesn't qualify as "un-American", in my view. It's a voice of dissent, and below, you say that voice is the basic right of every American.

Bush stands for nothing that I value in the U.S., ergo, he's not my president. Deal with it.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
air2gxs
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:20 am

Ah, then who is your President? Last time I read the Constitution it mentions only one president. That would be the elected President of The United States. Deal with it.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:27 am

I don't have one right now, thank you.  Smile
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
padcrasher
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:57 am

Just to give you an example of the average knowledge level of those who voted for Bush. Here's what they "knew" of the most deadly attack on American soil ever. No wonder the rest of the World is dumbstuck?

"The leading members of the administration would continually string together "9/11," "Al-Qaeda," and "Iraq" in the same sentence, rarely making a direct connection, but always implying it. When Sen. Mark Dayton, of the Senate Armed Services Committee, asked Donald Rumsfeld why the U.S. needed to invade Iraq "now," he snapped back, "What's different? What's different is 3,000 people were killed."

The lie proved highly effective. Shortly before Congress voted to authorize U.S. military action against Iraq, a CBS News poll found 51 percent of Americans believed that Hussein was involved in the 9/11 attacks, and soon afterwards, the Pew Research Center reported that two-thirds of the U.S. public agreed that "Saddam Hussein helped the terrorists in the Sept. 11 attacks."

 
Zweed
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:04 am

at least almost half of the population has brains
 
padcrasher
Topic Author
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:05 am

So how did they do it? How did 51% of Americans drop the ball?

It's an old trick.

“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.”
— Herman Goering
Nazi Air Force (Luftwaffe) commander
at the Nuremberg War-Crimes Trials, 1946
 
Zweed
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:10 am

That quote could have been sad by any random member of the Bush Administration anno 2004.

Very scary
 
SATL382G
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:00 am

Funny -- Of those Americans in this thread who are anti Bush none of them will say:

- I apologize for not voting

- Or I apologize for not supporting a Democratic candidate who could actually beat a wartime Republican incumbent.

- Or I apologize for supporting and voting for a Democratic candidate the majority of Americans could not accept as president.

- Or I'm sorry I supported the most liberal Democratic candidate in his primary win in my state.

... and then have the gall to say Bush is not their President. Anti-Bush folks: you lost the election and it was yours to lose or win, you blew it.

regards -- a conservative who didn't vote for Bush
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
NWADC9
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:17 am

I'm afraid I have to question your patriotism and you saying that you're an American veteran. For one, you APOLOGIZE on behalf of the ENTIRE country when 51% vote against an orange, botox-ingecting flip-flopper, you make your country a laughingstock to the world, and you have an urge to apologize to the world that someone gets voted in. In my opinion, I call that treason.

I'm suggesting deletion to this thread. You make a joke out of your country that you served.
I get paid to convert dead dino juice into noise.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:26 am

I'm suggesting deletion to this thread. You make a joke out of your country that you served

Don't waste your time . . . been there, done that . . . succeeded in getting most of MY posts deleted, but nothing else . . .

FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
padcrasher
Topic Author
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:31 am

This will make the 2nd attempt by Bush supporters to delete the thread. I've obeyed all the policies of the forum. And remained "civilized" as the rules require. So much for a free exchange of ideas.

I wonder if the moderator will be bullied into deleting it? If it were the American media they would most likely get away with it.
 
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n229nw
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:38 am

NWADC9,

If you think a citizen of a free country reminding the rest of the world that half her fellow citizens object to the actions of our government is "treason," you are well and truly brainwashed. Look at the Goering quote that Padcrasher posted in reply 23, and really think about it.

I usually really object to bringing peoples' ages into the discussion, but a 13-15 year-old going around accusing people of treason does take the cake, and nowhere in any of these political forums have I seen any evidence of you actually reading about or thinking about these issues on your own. Just soundbites and anger. You must be getting some serious propaganda from your parents or whacking off too much to the Ann Coulter posters you have up over your bed.
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:41 am

I think Jcs17 hit it on the head....the American people spoke, now deal with it.

So those who oppose Bush should just shut up, now that he is president?

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
Newark777
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:42 am

Although I completely disagree with the thread starter, I believe that she has stayed within the rules of the forum and is just stating her beliefs. I will not be suggesting deletion, as there are others out there who are much more deserving of this.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
NWADC9
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:46 am

"NWADC9,

If you think a citizen of a free country reminding the rest of the world that half her fellow citizens object to the actions of our government is "treason," you are well and truly brainwashed. Look at the Goering quote that Padcrasher posted in reply 23, and really think about it.

I usually really object to bringing peoples' ages into the discussion, but a 13-15 year-old going around accusing people of treason does take the cake, and nowhere in any of these political forums have I seen any evidence of you actually reading about or thinking about these issues on your own. Just soundbites and anger. You must be getting some serious propaganda from your parents or whacking off too much to the Ann Coulter posters you have up over your bed. "

What I mean is that for one who serves their country to go against their commander-in-chief, I IN MY OPINION would say that's treason.

"You must be getting some serious propaganda from your parents or whacking off too much to the Ann Coulter posters you have up over your bed."
I have none of those. I'm no robot. I can infer things on my own.
I get paid to convert dead dino juice into noise.
 
kevi747
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:50 am

"The right to dissent is a basic right of Americans. But dissent has to be responsible"


Air2gxs, and who gets to decide what constitutes responsible dissent?




SATL382G, excellent post. I agree totally.

"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert
 
air2gxs
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:11 am

Responsible dissent? To para-phrase a Supreme Court judge on a speaking on a completely different subject - I can't define irresponsible dissent, but I can recognize it when I see it.

It is subjective, but I think most of us can figure out what responsible dissent is.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:20 am

"And it's asshole remarks like that that keep the American people divided."

Pot. Kettle. BLACK BLACK BLACK!
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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mbmbos
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:25 am

Air2gxs,

Two comments, first, your reference to a Supreme Court judge who said something like "I can't define (blank), but I can recognize it when I see it." Has it ever occurred to you that this was spoken with sense of irony?

Then you say, "It is subjective, but I think most of us can figure out what responsible dissent is."

Talk about contradictions! That's laughable. You don't even have agreement about what constitutes "responsible dissent" on this forum.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
airplay
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:26 am

I would like to sincerely thank Jcs17 for a great dart board picture. It's hard to find one that accentuates Bush's beady (all too close together) eyes. Bravo Jcs17!
 
air2gxs
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:39 am

Do you live in a black and white world? Can you tell me what is responsible dissent?

Were the protests of Martin Luther King responsible? Were Gandhi's protests responsible? How about the Red Brigade? Or that fool in Japan with the Sarin gas? How about the Black Panthers or the KKK? How about the hunger strikers around the world and the labor stoppages? Responsible or irresponsible? IRA, PLO, the American Revolution, The French Revolution, The October Revolution? Responsible or irresponsible.

The answer will differ depending on who you talk too. In fact, we may not know the answer until many years into the future.

Maybe I should have said that I can recognize what I consider responsible dissent, but I have full faith that the loud mouth in Mass. and many others in government (and on this board and other boards) know full well where their own personal line is and they cross it willingly because of the hatred they feel for our president.
 
NZ747
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:29 am

Jsc17: Well, according to my calculations 286 electoral votes beats 252. And 51% of the voting public beats 48%. Therefore, Kerry lost, Bush won.

Then here's a representation of that 51%. These people are so far away from intelligent civilization, stuck in redneck capital USA, that they have no idea what the hell is going on in the rest of the world. Trust them to vote in one of their own kind.



 
StowAway
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:40 am

NZ747, we didn't need proof of your ignorance, but thanks anyways.

A monkey's ass always talks crap.
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:42 am

Air2 ..... Maybe I should have said that I can recognize what I consider responsible dissent

So, if I disagree with you, then I am being irresponsible?

Pete
"In God we trust, everyone else bring data"
 
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keesje
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:39 pm

Almost all Americans I met/know (incl. vets) are nice guys that have a balanced opinion on most issues.

Personnaly I´m not really into patriotism, flag waving etc. because it tends to disable common sense with many people.

btw wasn´t the liberal Kerry not a decorated vet? G.W. Bush told the world so.. negating those scary "for truth" guys, if I remember well..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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bully707
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:09 pm

Ok..I will also speak my mind....!!

I don't "like" G.W a single bit, and I despise the way he got the approval to invade Iraq...BUT...by doing so he finished off a dictatorship that didn't value life in any way!!!!

From 1993-2000 I spent most of my flying career over the adriatic and Ex-Yugoslavia waving fingers at pilots entering the no-fly-zone from Serbia...

Later I had to watch the news and see what some of those serbian pilots did.

For seven years the whole world watched the genocide in Yugoslavia and NO country ever thought about really putting it to an end.

That's something to be ashamed of...reelecting persons who didn't have the guts to stand up and say
"NO...we will no longer tolerate this murdering regime!!! "

Sorry for being off-topic...

Bully
"That's the good thing about the 707...it can do anything, but read!" Joe Patroni, Airport '70
 
padcrasher
Topic Author
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:19 pm

Believe me bully getting rid of a dictatorship was only a fringe benefit. The US is more than happy to let dictatorships alone as long as they don't stand in the way of some foreign policy stategy.

In a nutshell here's what happened. You had a person of low intelligence and knowledge get elected as President of the US. He had very little interest in foreign policy. Pro-Israeli Neocons are advising this Know-nothing that if he topples Iraq it will have a domino effect in the Middle East and all these Muslim countries will elect their governments and Israel will be safe. (of course the don't mention Israel outright, the just talk about "stability" in the Middle East)

Well we see how this has turned out. Americans have no idea these troops are dying to keep Israel safe as they go about stealing Palestinian land.
 
NumberTwelve
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:25 pm

ANCflyer, Pilotadim asked very intersting question. No answer? His question was:
"ANC i have a question for you, and im not being Rhetorical, do you really feel that the young soldiers in the Iraqi theatre are doing anything good for an average american? Does the reshaping of Iraqi balance the needs of the American people? I am just trying to understand how Pres. Bush is planning on running the country he is in, when literally half of them don't like what he's doing...half of America is a large number! "


As you see, I call the US soldiers (and the people who believed Rumsfeld, Bush&Co) "drilled monkeys". The mass destruction weapons didn't exist - the reason they started a war that killed more than 100,000 people.

How will Bush be called to account? He started a war and used the name "god". That's blasphemy!
signature censored by admin - so check my profile
 
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bully707
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:27 pm

I know you're probably right...  Sad

I do support your point of view...still I think it is time to put all those murdering thiefs out of power...but I could be too idealistic...  Big grin .

Godspeed

Bully
"That's the good thing about the 707...it can do anything, but read!" Joe Patroni, Airport '70
 
NumberTwelve
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:32 pm

Bully, when Bush is protecting the world against countries who ignore UN resolutions, when will he invade in Israel?

Bush had and still has lots of dictators in the world as his friend. He invades counries he likes - if there are reasons or not.
And till 1991 Saddam was one of the best friends of the US because he was fighting against Iran.

Now it isn't to bold for the US to fight against Iran again.
The axis of evil shouldn't be defined in Asian countries only, also in other continents there are evils.
signature censored by admin - so check my profile
 
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bully707
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RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:23 am

N12...valid point !!!

I do not have the answer to all questions...unfortunatly  Big grin ....
Since we're all human, there will never be peace on earth and there will always be people bullying others, at whatever the cost may be.

Sad but unchangeable...I think.

I just feel sorry for everyone involved...

Bully
"That's the good thing about the 707...it can do anything, but read!" Joe Patroni, Airport '70
 
air2gxs
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 1:29 pm

RE: Apology From An American Veteran

Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:33 am

Air2 ..... Maybe I should have said that I can recognize what I consider responsible dissent

So, if I disagree with you, then I am being irresponsible?

Pete


No, to disagree is not irresponsible. Let's take an extreme: You disagree with me, so you fire a weapon into my home; irresponsible. You disagree with me, so you express your outrage, by engaging me in some debate; responsible. You take my family hostage; irresponsible. You take our disagreement to the public forum; responsible (gray). You belittle me, my family and associates to make your point; irresponsible.

Do you see the difference?

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