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JetJock22
Topic Author
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:13 pm

When Is Enough Enough?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:11 pm

Ward Churchill. If I saw this guy on the street, I'd punch him in his nose. This guy needs to be fired, reprimanded, black listed form teaching anywhere. If I were a student at Colorado, I'd leave and not give em another dime of my money. Where do we draw the line? When is enough enough? Are our colleges and universities gonna become sanctuaries for these "scholars"? It frankly pisses me off. I don't pay thousands of dollars a quarter to listen to some professor spout of his/her mouth about Iraq/Bush/ whatever when he/she's supposed to be teaching me about math, astronomy, whatever. It is bullshit and I am tired of it. And this isn't just pertaining to liberal professors either. It pertains to conservative profs as well. Do your damn job, teach me about the crap I "need" to know to get out in the real world and get a job, and shut the hell up. Stop wasting my time and money by making me listen to your rants and raves because you think you are some high and mighty college prof. Anyone else pissed off about this? Go to town on it.
 
N317AS
Posts: 941
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 1:25 pm

RE: When Is Enough Enough?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:19 pm

Outstanding reason not to go to college and to vote against any tax initiatives that will go to "higher education". Such as we are about to have in Washington.
 
USAFHummer
Posts: 10261
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 12:22 pm

RE: When Is Enough Enough?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:36 pm

" If I were a student at Colorado, I'd leave and not give em another dime of my money."

I'm a CU-Boulder student and perfectly content with the quality of my undergraduate education...this might be worthy of "Ripley's Believe it or Not!" but believe it when I say that most CU professors do not have such extreme views on things, and I have yet to encounter a professor in my 4 semesters so far that has expressed views in class that are heavily biased or prejudiced...in fact, many of them have made great efforts to not reveal their personal viewpoints on controversy in lectures, which is something to be applauded.

There is life on the CU campus besides all the scandals and headline making that we have unfortunately had to endure over the past year, and I am very satisfied with my education here...now if you were asking about the reserved ticket policy and the ushers at CU basketball games, then I'd be in an outrage like I currently am, but that has no bearing on my actual education here, and thus I can find no reason why this whole mess would cause me to leave, or any other student for that matter.

Greg

[Edited 2005-02-10 07:39:02]
 
mdsh00
Posts: 4059
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

RE: When Is Enough Enough?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:50 pm

Outstanding reason not to go to college

I'm sorry but I disagree strongly with that. In my opinion, higher education is one of the most valuable tools that a young person can get. One idiot professor is no reason to believe that higher education is fundamentally flawed. People like that are handled by way of forced resignation.
 
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aerorobnz
Posts: 8435
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: When Is Enough Enough?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:26 pm

Universities are there to teach you how to think for yourself, not teach you exactly what you need to know like it was at High School.
Yes I agree with the fact they should be teaching you according to the papers you are enrolled in, but you know Uni is supposed to teach maturity, and respect for other points of view too so if I wasn't happy with his lecture material I would take it up with the person/department/University concerned. After all you are the one paying for your education, and they are there to help you get your degree if you need them, ultimately it rests on what you do to complete though.
One lecturer shouldn't be enough to faze someone, if it does then they are not mature enough to cope with university life.
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: When Is Enough Enough?

Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:34 pm

A lot of people have the exact same sentiments about Ann Coulter. People who say inflammatory things to garner publicity deserve to be ignored, nothing more.
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: When Is Enough Enough?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:53 am

"I'm sorry but I disagree strongly with that. In my opinion, higher education is one of the most valuable tools that a young person can get."

I almost fell off my chair laughing at that. All a diploma gets you is in the door at a job, that is all. HR fruits have been trained to equate degree with brains, all it shows is that you can jump through hoops for 4 years. I am in college and not learning a damn thing that will make a shred of difference when I get a job. How can one be expected to be prepared for employment when they are being taught by professors who have never had a real job? I know of nobody, except doctors and a couple engineers that actually use a few things they were taught in college (notice I said a few). College for doctors is more on the job training anyway, and that is why they actually gain useful knowledge from it. Otherwise college just tells people the underlying reasons for some things, stuff that if it made a shred of difference most of us would figure out on our own.

In no way are degrees to be equated with knowledge in my book.

I agree with the thread starter however that profs need to shut their pie holes and stick with the syllabus. I am not paying an accounting prof to give me political views regardless of how they compare to my own.

BTW: Before starting a bitch thread you might want to take a deep breath and put together a better post.
 
fergulmcc
Posts: 1878
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 pm

RE: When Is Enough Enough?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:08 am

If you hate University so much, why are you in it?
Sure I agree with one of your points Captoveur.
I have yet to use one of those huge formulas in work that I learnt in college when doing my Mechanical Engineering Course, but the system works. If it didn't we wouldn't be studying.

Fergul Big grin

PS What are you studying for?

[Edited 2005-02-10 17:13:24]
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: When Is Enough Enough?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:09 am

My thanks to Ward Churchill for providing a new benchmark of irony.

In making such outrageous statements in public he reminds me of nothing so much as Hitler back in the 20s and early 30s. In the days before Hitler was a rising power, he was just a pain in the ass. Along comes Ward Churchill and calls a disparate group of three thousand people, not all of them adults, not all of them part of the world economic power center, not all of them Christians, not all of them Americans, and he lumps them all together as "Eichmanns" and "Nazis"

Way to go, bonehead!

I don't so much lament that the first amendment gives him the right to utter such lies and hurt the families of the victims. I regret that if Mrs. Beamer (Todd Beamer: "Let's Roll!") walked up and slapped his face, she would probably go to jail and certainly would get sued.

I also lament this: In the private sector you can be fired for saying something like this anywhere it can be overheard. But a professor can say it in a public speech. Why should public employees have more "rights" than those of us in the private sector?



 
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seb146
Posts: 23980
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: When Is Enough Enough?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:33 am

Here is a wacky idea:

Let's say you are in an economics lecture. You should be learning something about economics but the professor starts going off on an irrelevant tangent about the current administration and stating his opinions. So, why not stand up and say: "This is not what I am paying for. I want to learn about economics not your opinion on the current political status." It is, after all, your money you are spending.

Just my two cents.

GO CANUCKS!!
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5748
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: When Is Enough Enough?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:03 am

>>I am in college and not learning a damn thing that will make a shred of difference when I get a job.<<

You criticize being taught by people who have never held real jobs, yet what professional experience do you have that allows you to make the above statement? Illogical.


College is hard. It's frustrating. But only down the road are you going to be able to see its value and appreciate the experience and knowledge you're learning now. Believe me. Contrary to what you think, college isn't designed to train you with specific job skills unless you're attending a trade or vocational school. Only on-the-job experience prepares you for further career advancement. But you must first have an education and possess the fundamentals. I can't tell you how many times I've been at work and said to myself "Shit... I wish I would have paid more attention in such and such a class (usually finance or accounting related)" Additionally, college is about so much more than book knowledge.

If the thread author is all bent out of shape about the opinion of one college professor, then he's not going to be successful in the business world... because there are a lot more authority figures with lots and lots of fucked up opinions.

(edited for typo)

[Edited 2005-02-10 19:06:50]
 
JetJock22
Topic Author
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: When Is Enough Enough?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:28 am

TWFirst, I'm not bent out of shape about one college prof giving his opinion. The thing that makes me angry is that it seems like today that more and more professors are using their classes as a platform shed their opinions on the students, rather than doing their job and teaching what they are supposed to teach. I have no problem if a professor wants to spout off their opinions in their office, in a meeting with a student or a setting where it is appropriate. Where I have a problem is when professors don't stick to their syllabus, use class time that WE are paying for to promote their opinions when 99% of the time it has no relevance to what the class is about. How does calling the 9/11 victims a "bunch of little Eichmans" pertain to an ethics class? All it shows me is that Churchill has no ethics himself. Everyone is entitled to free speech and I respect that, but I'm not paying to be belittled because I happen to agree with President Bush or support our military, etc. I'm paying to learn about history, astronomy, math, biology, etc, not have an opinion shoved down my throat.
 
airplay
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:58 am

RE: When Is Enough Enough?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:49 am

The thing that makes me angry is that it seems like today that more and more professors are using their classes as a platform shed their opinions on the students, rather than doing their job and teaching what they are supposed to teach.

Learning is not a black and white process. Especially at the college level. Personal opinions of the professors are often presented.

People in college should be stimulated to think for themselves. Memorizing packaged "facts" has no value whatsoever. One way to stimulate thought and discussion is to have the freedom to present ideas. Ideas can be debated and solutions proposed.

If it weren't for people like Ward Churchill strirring up things occasionally, society would quickly lose sight of the very principles that define it.

I wonder JetJock22, would you be so outraged if the professor's opinions were in synch with your opinions?
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5748
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: When Is Enough Enough?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:54 am

You make a good point JetJock... I recall a few professors that I thought wasted my money (because they sucked at teaching)... but I do believe you may have missed the point of his comment, although that's not surprising considering how convoluted it was. I read the story about this controversy a couple days ago... I don't agree with his point, but he was trying to make a statement against the ethics of the "capitalists" that worked in the WTC, and their function in the world. He seems to have fairly extreme, idealistic views on the far left of the political spectrum. Nonetheless, I don't think the type of discussion he was attempting to provoke was out of place in an ethics class. Syllabi are simply a means to frame the scope of a class... they're not set in stone. College classes are supposed provoke debate, thought, free expression of ideas... NOT rote memorization/drone thinking. Students SHOULD challenge professors when they don't agree with professor's logic or hypotheses...
 
JetJock22
Topic Author
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: When Is Enough Enough?

Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:03 am

"I wonder JetJock22, would you be so outraged if the professor's opinions were in synch with your opinions?"

Airplay, read my original post. I stated it doesn't matter to me what opinions they have, granted I wouldn't bas as upset if it was more along the lines with my thinking, but I'm saying regardless of what side it falls on, if it doesn't have relevance to the class I am paying for, no need to say it, that's all.

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