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Gary2880
Posts: 1856
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:52 pm

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:55 am

yes its been a long and hard 2 weeks but finally im back, and i still stand by my prior comments, and thanks to a very nice email i recived not everyone that knows me thinks i have zero credibility, some people think its nice that someones finally standing up against right wing nut jobs, again this may be hard for some americans to squeeze into their minds but not everyone that has a diffrence of oppinion with america has zero credibility, actualy
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4330
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:07 am

Ok... I am a Democrat. God knows i have my fair share against 'right wing nut jobs' and I have been 'standing up against' them all over this forum and all over real life.

The problem lies in that you do not differentiate between America and the political sect you proclaim to disagree with.

your a despicable nation
your country has no history so your trying to make it, thats scarey
I wrote a 3,000 word essay on why I despise your people

That is not standing up against 'right wing nut jobs', that is insulting every American, and I will not stand for that bullshit from you.

With all this talk of fascism and Nazi Germany in this thread, it should be obvoius to you that the one moving closest down that path is YOURSELF, who has such hate for a large number of people based on their nationality.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21638
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:09 am

JetJock22: Srbmod, what the hell? Are you pulling a Ward Churchill and comparing patriotic American's to a "bunch of little Eichmans?"

Churchill´s point - even if rather tasteless - was directed more at the economic policies and their widely atrocious consequences emanating from the WTC before, as far as I know. That´s a difference.


JetJock22: I find that REAL offensive you refer to me and other patriotic Americans while using a picture of a Nazi Swastika. It's fine if you don't agree or whatever, but pullin out the swastika? that's taking it a little far.

I agree. It makes a valid point up to a rather limited degree, but there are still fundamental differences.

I see troubling nationalistic tendencies in the current US administration and their supporters. Some of the propaganda methods employed by Karl Rove and Rupert Murdoch are so straight out of Goebbels´ propaganda 101 that it´s chilling for anyone who knows a bit about history.

I still don´t see any reasonable indication that a genocide comparable to the shoah was propagated, planned or even considered, Abu Ghraib or not. And since that is the ultimate significance of the nazi symbols, their use in this context is still inappropriate and tasteless. Let´s hope it remains that way.
 
JetJock22
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:12 am

Klaus, what is the world coming to?? We actually agreed on something! Big grin
 
Klaus
Posts: 21638
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:16 am

JetJock22: Klaus, what is the world coming to?? We actually agreed on something!

Now let us just eliminate those other 99% of dissent and we´re all good!  Big thumbs up
 
JetJock22
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:20 am

Haha, I knew the honeymoon wouldn't last long! Big grin
 
Gary2880
Posts: 1856
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:52 pm

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:21 am

im glad i made such an impact on you last time. the reason i hate you is because of the amount of bullshit america has delt out to the world under the guise that its trying to do good, but before i get carryed away again im going to be more careful this time, im sure theres nothing more 90% of you would like is for me to be banned for another 2 weeks or perminantly so you can rant on promoteing your shameful country with no opposition, im sure there are some nice americans somewhere but alas i have not met any yet

if any would like to make themselfs known at this point feel free

when i see on faux news the network that is alegidly speaking out for america a guest saying 'well i think we should nuke iraq and let god sort it out' as i said before some of you have far to much freedom of speach if thats the sort of crap that comes out when you open your mouths
 
Klaus
Posts: 21638
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:21 am


It never does.  Wink/being sarcastic
 
L.1011
Posts: 2172
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:46 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:22 am

We can continue to argue over and over again, but no minds are going to be changed. The point is, calling Bush and/or the United States fascist or nazist or whatever else simply does more to condone fascism than it does to damage the United States or Bush.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21638
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:25 am

Gary2880: so you can rant on promoteing your shameful country with no opposition

Countries are never "shameful". Though government policies can be.

Gary2880: im sure there are some nice americans somewhere but alas i have not met any yet

Hm. I guess your sample must have been rather limited or your attitude a bit too hostile, one of the two.  Wink/being sarcastic
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4330
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:28 am

so you can rant on promoteing your shameful country with no opposition

Have you EVER read some of my other political posts? Yeah, thats what i thought.

Strike 1
im sure there are some nice americans somewhere but alas i have not met any yet

You said you've never been here anyway...once again no credibillity to talk.

Strike 2

Dude, learn how to spell, reading that was downright distracting.

Strike 3- Now shut up
 
PacificWestern
Posts: 515
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:30 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:29 am

I've seen far more venomous postings on the non aviation forums than what Gary2880 has written.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21638
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:31 am

L.1011: We can continue to argue over and over again, but no minds are going to be changed. The point is, calling Bush and/or the United States fascist or nazist or whatever else simply does more to condone fascism than it does to damage the United States or Bush.

I don´t think so. The point of contention is primarily the lack of self-reflection exhibited by some (don´t doubt we have people with that same affliction - we just don´t elect them to be our government and let them start wars any more).

I wouldn´t try to "convert" you to any belief. But I think it´s important to recognize patterns of propaganda and manipulation - especially when you´re a country that has hardly any external checks and balances left.

The more power you have, the more self-reflection you need.

[Edited 2005-02-14 00:33:07]
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4330
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:34 am

PacificWestern-

Might want to check over at airwhiners for the thread full of excerpts from Gary a few weeks ago. Maybe not the worst ive seen but downright insulting and degrading to every American.
 
DC10GUY
Posts: 2590
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 5:52 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:35 am

Fascism, Republicanism, Same thing ....
 
Gary2880
Posts: 1856
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:52 pm

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:42 am

will you please think of another arguement than my spelling some authors cant spell get over it just because i cant spell doesnt detract from my meaning

You said you've never been here anyway...once again no credibillity to talk.

what gives america the credibillity/right to think of itself as the world police and that the only way is the american way??

about the degrading crap, yeah so what, doesnt matter when coulter degrades the entire arab populis does it, or when the 'soldiers' are degrading people in camp delta or iraq
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:53 am

There's a difference between being patriotic and ultranationalistic. The Conservatives and the Religious Right are teetering very close to being fascists hidden under the guise of patriotism. "If you don't agree with Bush or like Bush then you are a traitor" sounds a lot like "If you don't like Der Fuhrer then you're not a good German."

Homeland Security just sounds like something from the Third Reich. The way the gov't tosses the word homeland and homeland security, you'd think that this was Germany during the Second World War.

This is the reason why I posted the second picture. There really seems to be something sinister beneath the surface of our gov't these days, it just gets painted over, hoping that the sheep won't see what is happening. I refuse to bend in my beliefs, as I feel that the Founding Fathers are probably turing over in their graves at the mockery of the Constitution that GWB and his big business buddies have enacted since being selected not elected (Sounds a little bit like who Hitler came into power doesn't it?)

I bet some of you narrow-minded sheep will call me out as a "liberal", but I am far from one. Liberalism is a busted ideology, made useless by the wide eyed dreamers that thought big, but acted little. Social reforms are a great idea, but how can we fund them properly without adding taxes? Conservativism threatens the fabric of our nation, as they are usurpers, cutting a wide swath across the ideals upon which our nation was founded. When I watched the second GWB inauguration, I thought I was at a church service, not a swearing in ceremony. And I was offended by this. This was a serious breech of governmental decorum, as this was nothing short of a governmental endorsement of religion, an area in which government needs to stay out of. I feel as though every church that pushed a political agenda onto its' members should have their tax-excempt status revoked.
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:54 am

Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic.

For all of you who just post stupid, childish pictures and resort to petty name calling and insults, you are pathetic. Note that Padcrasher had the respect not to do so, not to return your stupidity in the same manner. If you have nothing productive to say, don't say anything at all. You all sound like big fat idiots when you do that (like Michael Moore, GASP).

Padcrasher, welcome to my RR list for a well thought out, patiently discussed thread.

The scariest thing about all this was this statement:

High security and less civil rights for those who will kill us and our children without a second thought is PERFECTLY fine with me. It is time for Democrats to fall into line and drop the Geneva B.S.

Isn't this just a little ironic in this of all threads?
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4330
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:56 am

about the degrading crap, yeah so what, doesnt matter when coulter degrades the entire arab populis does it, or when the 'soldiers' are degrading people in camp delta or iraq

Ok..Coulter is a bitch.

Those particular soldiers are as well.

And thank you for adding yourself to the list, how convenient.

You do realize that your 'if they do it i can to' is an extremely flawed concept where you lower yourself as a person?
 
JetJock22
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:01 am

Srbmod, I'm not calling you out as a liberal, I'm calling you out as a complete jackass.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:03 am

High security and less civil rights for those who will kill us and our children without a second thought is PERFECTLY fine with me. It is time for Democrats to fall into line and drop the Geneva B.S.

I am embarrassed to be from the same country as you.

Everything about that sentence is antithetical to what it means to be from America. Sounds like you'd fit in better in Somalia, or some other dicatorship.

N
 
Gary2880
Posts: 1856
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:52 pm

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:03 am

if you think i was classing myself in the same boat as those bastards you obviousley misunderstood me

Homeland Security just sounds like something from the Third Reich. The way the gov't tosses the word homeland and homeland security, you'd think that this was Germany during the Second World War.


excatly, homeland, fatherland, cant see the diffrence myself, i hope the PR person that thought up homeland was fired
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 4330
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:06 am

you obviousley misunderstood me


about the degrading crap, yeah so what, doesnt matter when coulter degrades the entire arab populis does it

How, exactly?
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:08 am

Gigneil,

I'm not sure if your post was directed at me, but I just want to clarify that I was referencing Flybyguy's response in reply #53. It disturbed me just as much as it appears to have you.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:10 am

My response was targeted at Flybyguy.

It makes me sick that American's keep supporting the "fight for freedom" but really they want things here to be the same as they are in the third world.

N
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:13 am

What's worse is that we seem to have forgotten this fight for freedom in Afghanistan, which happens to be settling back into the lawlessness and corruption. And lets just say that Iraqis aren't free to live their daily lives and walk their streets, for fear of being killed.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:30 am

No; My last information was that one of the addenda to the "Patriot Act" made it mandatory for book shops and libraries to report every sale and every checked-out book to the department of homeland security. I´d love to see evidence that this provision has been repealed since then!

Klaus, it sounds like you have spent too much time listening to biased media.
The Patriot act allowed the police to subpeona what books a specific person had checked out. In case you don't understand, that means they go to a judge and show cause why they are investigating a person and they recieve a subpeona for certain records. This is simple basic police work, nothing nefarious.
Personally, if it werent for the fact that everything we do is a public record I could find issues with it, but it is too late for that. That is not the governments fault, but the fault of our open society and technology. All dealings with public money must be kept public, including the use of public books. As for book sales, it is no different than the police finding the store where a knife used in a murder was purchased, for example.
The Patriot act did not say we could not read certain things or show certain signs, unlike your own laws. Just try and wave a swastika in Germany of France...I find it ironic a German is lecturing us on freedoms. While living in Germany as a private citizen, I found it to be one of the most restricted "free" countries I have been in. Just my opinion, but "Alles Verboten" is a common theme on the graffitti walls-for a reason.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21638
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:32 am

Mham001: Klaus, it sounds like you have spent too much time listening to biased media.
The Patriot act allowed the police to subpeona what books a specific person had checked out. In case you don't understand, that means they go to a judge and show cause why they are investigating a person and they recieve a subpeona for certain records. This is simple basic police work, nothing nefarious.


When it´s not part of proper procedure under publicly accessible regulations but is instead a clandestine dragnet operation (the Patriot Act specifically eliminates the requirement of probable cause), it´s far less benign. It turns into exactly the kind of control instrument authoritarian regimes are known to use.


The actual benefits for terrorism prevention are rather questionable at the same time, but the damage to a free society is considerable.


Mham001: The Patriot act did not say we could not read certain things or show certain signs, unlike your own laws.

We´ve got rather firm protections of information privacy, something that to my knowledge doesn´t exist at all in the USA. (Remember those "Learn everything about your friend/neighbour/colleague/boss" services? They´d break any number of laws over here!)

And you can read everything you want. You just can´t sell or otherwise distribute hate-instigating propaganda. And that does indeed cover swastikas and related symbols. If that makes you feel limited, something about your own interests might be a bit questionable, don´t you think?
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:35 am

All ya gotta do is look at the UN and it'll give you a clear picture of how ass backwards yall really are.

ROTFL! Precious! Someone who talks like a backwoods hillbilly, telling others that they're backwards.  Laugh out loud
 
ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:53 am

Ushermittwoch
Out of all the BS that has been said in the above thread by the usual suspects, this is clearly the most ignorant.

You may feel free to disagree with me at any time on any topic. However, calling me or my statements "ignorant" is inappropriate.
 
JetJock22
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:41 pm

Falcon, because I say yall makes me a backwoods hillbilly? I'm from Ohio, born and raised, never lived in the South a day in my life. So why don't you keep the personal attacks out of this. Or is that the best you can do since your thinking is so convaluded that you can't come up with anyhting better to that statement I made other than to call me a backwoods hillbilly.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:45 pm

Falcon, because I say yall makes me a backwoods hillbilly? I'm from Ohio, born and raised, never lived in the South a day in my life.

My friend, you don't have to be from Cobb Country, Georgia, to be a hillbilly. I've spent a fair amount of time in the Dayton area-my Aunt and Uncle have lived in either West Carrolton or Centerville for most of that last 25 years, and there are PLENTY of hillbillies in Southewest Ohio, Southeast Ohio and Western Ohio. Ohio is full of redneck hillbillies-a bunch of them sit in our statehouse and have been destroying this state for the past decade.

So don't tell me you can't be from Ohio and not be a hillbilly. You can. They're everywhere.

And it wasn't a personal attack, the way I see it-just hysterically amusing that someone who talks like you has the freaking nerve to tell others how backward they are. Maybe you're the backward one, not them.  Laugh out loud
 
JetJock22
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:51 pm

Yep, grew up in the Dayton area, Xenia to be exact and my entire family is from southwest Ohio, but I don't think we are hillbillies. None of us hunt, make moonshine, inbreed or whatever it is that sterotypical hillbillies do. I like to fish now and then, but i don't think that makes me a hillbilly. And I don't think they're everywhere. Just because someone isn't a city person or farms for a living, enjoys hunting or chews tobacco or whatever, that doesn't make them a hillbilly. But hey, if I'm a hillbilly in your eyes, more power to ya.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:04 pm

Yep, grew up in the Dayton area, Xenia to be exact and my entire family is from southwest Ohio..

Damn, some sad history in that town. Know right where I was in '74 when the twister hit that town.

And I don't think they're everywhere.

They're all over the southern/western part of Ohio, man. All over the place, and those are the folks who keep voting these redneck assholes into the Statehouse that have put in this scorched earth policy that has made Ohio the backwards state it's fast become over the last decade.
 
JetJock22
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:16 pm

Some say its a backwards place
narrow minds on a narrow ways
but I make it a point to say thats where I come from.

Thats where I come from,
where I'll be when it is said and done,
I'm proud as anyone thats where I come from.

Thats where I come from
Im an old O-H-I-Oan
I am as proud as any one
THATS WHERE I COME FROM
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:21 pm

I used to be proud to be from Ohio, but our state's been hijacked by right-wing extremists, who have let the economics of this state rot, while they make sure every Ohioian can pack a gun, and that we make sure Gays are in their place. The economy is in shambles; the school systems are bankrupt; high-tech industry won't touch the state, and it's young people, seeing all this, are leaving the state in droves.

And the latest budget from our Governor? To pay for tax increases, mostly for the wealthy, we'll cut medical benifits for the poorest neediest of Ohioans.

Yeah, a lot to be proud of.
 
solarix
Posts: 839
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:56 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:00 pm

Srbmod so people who watch Fox news are nazis?
The US is in a war against Islamofacism.. but we are the Nazis??????

What do you have to say about these people?


I find it shocking that you think patriotic US citizens or Fox watchers are nazis. They may have voted George W. Bush into office, but those people don't practice the Nazi code of killing jews  Insane

Scary.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21638
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:27 pm

Solarix: I find it shocking that you think patriotic US citizens or Fox watchers are nazis. They may have voted George W. Bush into office, but those people don't practice the Nazi code of killing jews

Sure, that´s the (significant!) difference.

The similarity, however, appears to be in a widespread willingness to replace necessary criticism with obedience, interest with voluntary ignorance, inner strength with fear and panic, reasonable force with blind aggression.

It sure is tempting to act primarily on emotions instead of intelligence. But it always ends in disaster - the difference is merely one of scale.
 
padcrasher
Topic Author
Posts: 1815
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:17 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:36 pm

b2707sst

Thanks for at least addressing my points. Not putting words in my mouth, not making some straw man argument. You are correct about military spending. I stand corrected.

Your comments about SS are tired rhetoric. It does not matter what the ratio is or was as to payers and payees. The funding shortfall is what it is. A minor deficit that could be solved by merely raising the income cap from $90K per year to $200K per year. Only effecting 3% of the US population.

Why doesn't' the GOP consider this? Because they are controlled by wealthy corporate players and they've got their middle class supporters so brainwashed they will actually vote against their own kids interests.
 
padcrasher
Topic Author
Posts: 1815
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:17 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:41 am

#10 Labor power is supressed.

Just out today. Amazing what they do!

True to form, the Bush administration is making sure that its corporate friends are not too inconvenienced on those rare occasions when they are found to be breaking federal laws, especially if it only involves child labor issues.

Wal-Mart, the world's largest retailer agreed to pay $135,540 to settle federal charges that it violated child labor laws in Connecticut, Arkansas and New Hampshire. As part of the agreement, revealed yesterday after it was secretly signed in January,******** the Labor Department agreed "to give Wal-Mart 15 days' notice before the Labor Department investigates any other 'wage and hour' accusations, like failure to pay minimum wage or overtime."*********


The violations involved workers under age 18 operating dangerous machinery, including cardboard balers and chain saws. In the agreement, Wal-Mart denied any wrongdoing, although the company agreed to pay the fine.

The agreement left Congressman George Miller (D-CA) rather angry:

"I don't know if the Department of Labor threw in the towel or whether Wal-Mart put enough political pressure on them that they ended up with a sweetheart deal," Miller said, adding that he will ask the department's inspector general this week to review the agreement.

"I don't know if there's anything in Wal-Mart's background with regards to allegations of violations of labor laws that would make any suggestion Wal-Mart has earned the right for this kind of treatment," Miller said.

 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:10 am

I find that those who are harping on the Patriot Act are nothing more than Bush haters looking for something to whine. The German whiners are true hypocrits but that another issue.
Fact is, we have lost considerable rights, and I do mean CONSIDERABLE. Not because of Gearge Bush or the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act has had negligible efffect on liberties. Subpeona library records. They are public record, BFD. What has erodoed the rights of every individual in the United States has been the War on Drugs. Apparenetly, the Bush haters haven't been paying attention because there has been court case after court case expanding police powers. Search and seizure can almost be done on a whim. This effects every person who gets pulled over for a supposed traffic stop. Believe it-its true. The Patriot Act is nothing, and I mean nothing compared to the drug war.
Now we could blame Bush for not acting to end it, but this travesty can't be put on his shoulders. it is on the shoulders of every president and Congress over the last 20 years. Both parties. There are a few voices on both sides who have some common sense, but for liberals to whine about the Patriot Act simply shows how partisan they are, and how spineless they are to the law enforcement lobby.
Fascism-yes there are signs, but not because of Gearge Bush.
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:18 am

Padcrasher,

Do you have a link for that article? Interesting
 
Klaus
Posts: 21638
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:49 pm

Mham001: The German whiners are true hypocrits but that another issue.

Doesn´t look like there was any profound depth of knowledge behind that flimsy insinuation...  Insane
 
fastair
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:05 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:08 pm

Padcrasher,

.. the Labor Department agreed "to give Wal-Mart 15 days' notice before the Labor Department investigates any other 'wage and hour' accusations, like failure to pay minimum wage or overtime."


That is truly shocking. Sad to see who really owns your government.
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:02 am

>>>Damn, some sad history in that town. Know right where I was in '74 when the twister hit that town.<<<

The second I read Xenia, Tornado of '74 is my first thought. Most young readers probably have no idea.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:23 am

The second I read Xenia, Tornado of '74 is my first thought. Most young readers probably have no idea.

Me, too, man. That name gives me shivers. Many tornado experts still consider one of the most destructive, if not the most destructive, twister, ever recorded in the US. And to make it worse, they got hit by another one in September of 2000-nothing like the monster in '74, though.

I used to be able to access a website which even had about a 4-minute audio of the twister. It was pretty amazing. I haven't been able to find it, though.  Sad
 
JetJock22
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:39 am

It was actually hit 3 times in a span of less than 30 years. The '74 storm which thankfully spared my mom and dad and grandparents and both their homes, then one in 1989 which destroyed 3 houses a block behind my grandma and grandpa's house (mom's side of the fam) and then the one in 2000 which did quite a bit of damage to the church where I was baptised, where mom and dad were married, etc. It also did some damage to my grandma's (dad's mom) condo. I'm glad I don't live there anymore. It' such an economically depressed town and it's a direct result of that '74 tornado. The town just never came back from it.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:43 am

There was one in '89? I don't remember that one.

Talk about a spot on the map that can't get a break....
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:13 am

Klaus

What exactly is your experience in the US. Ever been there? Lived there? From what are you drawing your opinions of this so-called "repression"?

I have lived and worked in both countries and like I said before and you ignored, the federal government of Germany has by far more control of its population than the federal government of the US. We can talk about local laws in the US but they vary so widely. Some of the localities are unreasonable, such as blue laws, etc. But in no way does the US government control its citiizens activities and thoughts like yours.

BTW, getting back to the free speech, your country and France have strict laws on what can be sold or shown in public. We would find this reprehnsible. Exactly who defines what you are calling hate publications? Yahoo, right now, is being fined by France for having Mein Kampf among other things on an auction. Nowhere do we have laws like this. You talk about freedom of information but dismiss your own countries restrictions.

Americans are quite good at self-critiscism. Criticism from hypocritical Europeans has gotten quite, quite old.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21638
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Bush - Leading The US Into Facism

Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:23 am

Mham001: What exactly is your experience in the US. Ever been there? Lived there? From what are you drawing your opinions of this so-called "repression"?

"Repression"? Things aren´t that simple, sorry. We´re talking about deplorable tendencies that are hard to miss with your eyes open.


Mham001: I have lived and worked in both countries and like I said before and you ignored,

You´ve missed my response #127, apparently.


Mham001: the federal government of Germany has by far more control of its population than the federal government of the US.

"Control"? Hardly.

The ban on hate propaganda and specifically on the nazi variety which appears to irk you so much (why, exactly?) is rather specific and can be challenged by everyone - our constitutional court has an excellent track record of protecting civil liberties and human rights. And it´s much more independent than the US Supreme Court (with the 2000 election debacle just being the icing on the cake).


Mham001: We can talk about local laws in the US but they vary so widely. Some of the localities are unreasonable, such as blue laws, etc. But in no way does the US government control its citiizens activities and thoughts like yours.

Depends on what you´re looking at. I prefer some stricter environmental regulations and a stricter building code to an obvious and increasing disrespect for civil and even human rights, especially those of non-americans.

There are many good things to be said about some aspects of US history; But at this time, the USA are on their way down to a place where you don´t want to be.


Mham001: Americans are quite good at self-critiscism.

Some of them, some of the time, yes.


Mham001: Criticism from hypocritical Europeans has gotten quite, quite old.

It wouldn´t sting you even half as much if you didn´t know yourself that your government and a part of your nation are way off course by now...

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