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Falcon84
Topic Author
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USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:13 am

25 Years after leaving office, former President Carter gets a Naval vessel in his honor.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/19/submarine.commissioned.ap/index.html

Nice to see that this former WWII vet who has served his country so well gets this high honor.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:19 am

Good for Jimmy Carter . . . and thank you President Carter for your service to this country. . .

That said, politics named this ship. See the thread below.

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/military/read.main/28182/
 
dl021
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:57 am

Falcon....President Carter did not serve in the military during WWII, he was in the Naval Academy until 1946. He served honorably in the nuclear Navy prior to returning home to Plains to go into the family business. He got into politics in the 60's and was Governor of Georgia before being the darkest horse candidate to win in a long time.

President Carter is the best ex-President we have had in a long time with his charitable and peace-seeking work around the world. I sometimes wonder about his politics, and judgement concerning some issues, but never about his personal integrity or honor.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/jc39.html
 
11Bravo
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:04 pm

This boat will probably be the most advanced SSN in the world for quite some time. The newer Virginia class is a very nice submarine, but they don’t quite have all the bells and whistles that the Seawolfs do.

It’s nice to see President Carter honored this way. Even though some malign his presidency for being weak on defense, I think he has generally been underrated and underappreciated. He was president during an awfully tough period in the aftermath of the Vietnam War and Watergate.

As you implied in the other thread ANCFlyer, I would like to see us stop naming warships after politicians. The new SSNs are named after states in the tradition of battleships and SSBNs. It makes me nauseous to think that some future CV will be called the William Clinton or the George W. Bush. I hope not.
 
goCOgo
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:06 pm

Great for Jimmy, but I'm sad to sea the Seawolf go so soon, after only 3 boats. What's next? They gotta replace the Los Angeles class subs someday.
 
Falcon84
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:07 pm

Personally, I have no problem naming warships after Presidents. After all, they were all C-in-C of the armed forces, and, in my mind, it's a good way to honor their service to the nation.

I still think, despite his tarnished history, that Nixon should have a ship named after him. Has LBJ ever had one named after him? Or Ford, for that matter?

And, conservatives will hate this, but in 20 to 25 years, when the conservative obsession with Bill Clinton dies down, he, too, will have a ship named after him.  Smile
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:11 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (reply 3):
Even though some malign his presidency for being weak on defense,


His presidency was woefully weak on defense, woefully. I can't stress that enough . . . but that's a topic for a different thread.

Carter is a hell of a stateman, his contributions to this country, after his Presidency, have been enormous. He is one of the finest former presidents this country will ever have. I have a great deal of respect for his statemanship, almost none for his presidency.

Warships, in this coutnry, should be names after great Ships of the Line, great sea Battles, stick with tradition instead of seeking the almighty political dollar by naming ships after your favorite benefactor in the house, senate or oval office.
 
dl021
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:12 pm

GoCOgo..... The replacement for the 688 class is the Virginia class submarine now coming off the line at Electric Boat and Newport News. They will be produced over the next 20 years and while smaller than the Seawolf class they will carry much of the technology employed in the Seawolf. They also use a modular construction technique that makes them easier and faster to complete, meaning less expensive.

Here are couple of decent sites.
Seawolf
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/seawolf/
Virginia
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/nssn/
 
Falcon84
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:16 pm

ANC, I do not agree with naming one after Senators or Congressmen, but I do think it's appropriate to do so for the men (and hopefully, someday) women, who serve as Commander In Chief. I think it's be nice to see a ship named after almost every president.
 
11Bravo
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:16 pm

Quoting GoCOgo (reply 4):
What's next? They gotta replace the Los Angeles class subs someday.


SSN-774 Virginia class. The first boat is already in service.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/nssn.htm
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:17 pm

The first unit of the Virginia-class was commissioned last year. Thus far 5 boats are funded, USS Virginia, USS Texas, USS Hawaii, USS North Carolina, and USS New Hampshire

http://www.sublant.navy.mil/774co.html for more pics of the class.
 
dl021
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:26 pm

Since the submarines are the capital ships now they deserve the naming scheme now employed. These vessels are capable of similar destruction as the battleships of yore which were named after states, as are the SSBN's of today

. One or two of them can blockade an entire country's coastline, and 5 or 6 could close down an entire shipping lane in one of the great oceans of the world. They deserve big names the same as the battleships received. I would have preferred they retain the city name scheme, but have no real issue with what they're doing now.

There is some noise being made now about reducing the number of NSSN boats over the next ten years. We will see what happens.

[Edited 2005-02-20 04:27:49]
 
goCOgo
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:35 pm

Thanks, didn't realize I was that outdated. Guess that what I get from getting all by defense info from Tom Clancy books. He hasn't had a good sub thiller in a while. But why build another Seawolf if the Virginias are already rolling off the line?
 
PPGMD
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:35 pm

but I do think it's appropriate to do so for the men (and hopefully, someday) women, who serve as Commander In Chief.

How about the USS Herbet Hoover, or the USS Millard Fillmore?
 
Falcon84
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:37 pm

PPGMD, I think it's appropriate to honor every man that served as C-in-C. I really do.

I'd love to see a carrier named the U.S.S. Ulysses S. Grant. I think that's a great name-this time not to honor him so much as President, but for his service to the nation in the Civil War. And I think it's a cool name for a ship.  Big grin
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:43 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (reply 14):
And I think it's a cool name for a ship.


Damn, too bad Patton wasn't an Admiral . . . then CinC.
 
Falcon84
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:47 pm

Damn, too bad Patton wasn't an Admiral . . . then CinC.

How 'bout naming a warship the William Techumseh Sherman, and basing it near Savannah?

Nah...to tacky.  Big grin
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:49 pm

Well, the newest aircraft carrier will be commissioned USS George H.W. Bush. Fitting for the youngest naval aviator of WW2.

Quoting Falcon84 (reply 5):
Personally, I have no problem naming warships after Presidents.


So if the Navy named a carrier or SSN after George W. Bush Jr., I can now hold you to it and expect that you'll keep your mouth shut and not bitch about it, right?

I hope the USS Clinton and USS G' Walker Bush get christened many decades from now in order to avoid the political bitching and sniping we see constantly...it has no place in the Navy.

Personally, I'd wait till the politicians have been dead for some time before naming ships after them. Lincoln, Washington, Roosevelt were great heroes in Americans history whos greatness is adequately reflated in the ships which bear their names. With modern politicians, it's too soon to tell how great they really were...if at all.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
PacificWestern
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:55 pm

Being rather young at the time, I nonetheless thought that Jimmy Carter was a good man, but the wrong president for the wrong time in US history. But I have always admired his integrity and totally believe that he acted in what he thought were the best interests of his country.

Both Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter since leaving the White House have served Americans and citizens of the world well. I have been criticized for my opinions often on this board, but I cannot say enough good things about the accomplishments of the Carters. And were I fortunate enough to have the opportunity, I would enjoy meeting them in person. It would be a great honour for me.

May those who serve on the newly named vessel be safe and proud.
 
Falcon84
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:55 pm

So if the Navy named a carrier or SSN after George W. Bush Jr., I can now hold you to it and expect that you'll keep your mouth shut and not bitch about it, right?

Why would I bitch about that, after I said Nixon deserves one as well. I think all presidents should have honors like that. No problem with me. Rsmith might protest a bit, though.  Big grin
 
dl021
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:56 pm

To be fair, I'm pretty sure Falcon would have no problem with that....He usually means what he says, even if he can be a bit touchy.  Big grin

I think that any vessel named after a person should be named posthumously.

As far as naming vessels after Generals, it doesn't really happen with capital ships. The Eisenhower was thus named because they were graduating the naming scheme and moving from naval heroes to Presidents, with the two odd congressmen, Stennis and Vinson, both great supporters of the navy.
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:57 pm

GoCogo - Jimmy Carter was originally due to be commissioned a few years ago, however, her commissioning was delayed to this year because she was being converted to perform special ops tasks, taking over the role of the now-decommissioned USS Parche.
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:01 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (reply 19):
Why would I bitch about that, after I said Nixon deserves one as well. I think all presidents should have honors like that. No problem with me. Rsmith might protest a bit, though.


Methinks Rsmith's head would explode.  Wink/being sarcastic As for Nixon...I could see a ship named after him. Hey, Walter Mondale has one...it's a laundry ship. (Simpson's reference).

B4e-Forever New Frontiers
 
PPGMD
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:06 pm

Personally I disagree. I think that warships should be named after only the Presidents that few can argue were great that's why I am misgiving for the USS Reagan, and the USS Bush, and other men that have served the Navy in some great way.

Having a ship named after them should be the highest honor possible.
 
Falcon84
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:10 pm

Having a ship named after them should be the highest honor possible.

Since they served in the highest office in the land, I think it's entirely appropriate for every president to have on thus named after them.
 
dl021
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:13 pm

GP not just the Parche but the other two old missile boats the Kamehemahe and the Polk. They were well sized but not as well adapted as the Seawolf or the four SSGN's that will be dual roled for missiles and special ops.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:23 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (reply 24):
Having a ship named after them should be the highest honor possible.


Have a WARship named after them I'd say. Who the hell wants their name on the prow of a garbage scow . . . something like a Carrier, SSBN, SSN, etc.

Quoting Boeing4ever (reply 22):
Methinks Rsmith's head would explode


Might be fun to watch . . . maybe we could call it the USS ReaganBushIBushIINixon. We'd get four times the blast!
 
AT502B
Posts: 329
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:28 pm

Reagan already has an Aircraft Carrier named after him- USS Ronald Reagan.
Nice looking ship too.
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:30 pm

I wonder if sailors with peanut allergies will be allowed on board...
 Big grin
 
AT502B
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:17 pm

RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:33 pm

George H Bush will also have a Nimitz class Aircraft Carrier named after him due for delivery in 2008 (CVN77),the 10th Nimitz Carrier
 
SlamClick
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:00 am

Quoting Falcon84 (reply 5):
And, conservatives will hate this, but in 20 to 25 years, when the conservative obsession with Bill Clinton dies down, he, too, will have a ship named after him.


Actually the entire "Clinton" class of submarines was considered but dropped when it was discovered that the antagonists' "Monica" class of submarines could simply attach themselves to the "Clintons" and extract all the seamen.
 
dl021
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:08 am

AAAAHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

 Laugh out loud  Laugh out loud  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

AAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH!!!!!!

 Laugh out loud  Laugh out loud Big grin Big grin Big grin

THAT'S FUNNY! I don't care who you are, THAT's funny! Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up

Slam, if you weren't already on the list, that'd get you there!


Oh crap, I think I broke a rib!!!!
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:36 am

Why don't they wait with naming the ship/airport whatever until the respective person is dead?
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:43 am

Quoting GoCOgo (reply 12):
He hasn't had a good sub thiller in a while


Get some Michael DeMurcurio books. . . . all sub, all good.

Quoting SlamClick (reply 30):
Actually the entire "Clinton" class of submarines was considered but dropped when it was discovered that the antagonists' "Monica" class of submarines could simply attach themselves to the "Clintons" and extract all the seamen.


Damn that's funny . . . it hurts to laugh that hard first thing in the morning!  Big grin  Big grin
 
dl021
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:33 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (reply 32):


L410....as I stated US Congressional politics have entered into such things.

The desire of the 1994 Class of Republicans in congress went a little haywire by renaming National airport in DC and then Congress went further by "helping" the Navy decide to name the CVN-76 the USS Reagan. The USN will do what it thinks necessary to get the funding approved, and understands that the purse strings have several holders.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:26 am

Jimmy Carter was one of the greatest presidents this country has ever had. This is a great honor for a great man.
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:01 am

I was very young when Jimmy Carter was in office, but as a Republican, I do appreciate and admire the charitable work he has done since leaving office.
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:34 pm

Jimmy Carter was one of the greatest presidents this country has ever had.

He is-and while he was in office-was, an outstanding man, but he was far, far from a great president. We had a terrible economic slowdown when he was in office (remember the "great malaise" speech?), we had the Hostage Crisis, that he failied to resolve (not from lack of effort, mind you), we had the fiasco of the failed rescue mission for the hostages; we had the boycott of the Moscow games-a huge blunder; we had the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan.

In any objective sense-which you seem to lack in abundance, DC10guy, he was not a good president at all. He may have been, however, the best man ever to hold the office, and that saves him from being shuttled to the very bottom of the presidential list.
 
slider
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:34 am

I'm sure that personally, Jimmy Carter is a good man and a fine human being.

With that said, I wouldn't name a go-kart after him.

He was one of the worst presidents this nation had, and his legacy of failure haunts us today.

Double-digit interest and inflation rates (remember the misery index?), total lack of economic direction, abysmal tax conditions, the Iran Hostage Crisis (the failure of which to decisively deal with fomented much of the terrorism we see today), giving pardons to Vietnam draft dodgers, and blaming the American people for the state of affairs.

Good riddance. It's just ironic that one of the worst presidents in terms of military defense gets one of the most high tech powerful submarines in the world. Go figure.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:29 am

Falcon84, Thank you for your opinion. Your opinions like mine are in "abundance". I think that's the idea here, my friend. Jimmy Carter worked everyday while in office for the "people" of the united states. (my opinion)Unlike the ones that followed who seemed more concerned about their campaign contributors ( my opinion )
 
Superfly
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:26 am

Jimmy Carter was one of America's greatest Presidents and it will be a long time until we get a leader as great as him in the future. Carter's fair policies in the Middle-East done him in because of a so-called ally of ours didn't want to meet there end of an agreed peace treaty. The American people screwed themselves by replacing him with an actor.


Thanks for the great leadership Jimmy Carter!  Big thumbs up


 
787
Posts: 271
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:26 am

Funny, Jimmy Carter brought the U.S. to the depths of economic despair. Now the USS Jimmy Carter will ply the depths of the oceans.

How ironic!
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:24 pm

Good riddance. It's just ironic that one of the worst presidents in terms of military defense gets one of the most high tech powerful submarines in the world. Go figure.

Like I said, he deserves it just as much as any president. Again, he gets it for his service to this nation, mostly because he served as President, somethng few men have ever done, but for a lifetime of service to the U.S. So, in the regard, it's entirely appropriate, especially since he served on Naval submarines.
 
Superfly
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:24 pm

Keep in mind, Jimmy Carter was in power at the wrong time. Had Reagan won the GOP nomination in 1976 and won in November, he would have been a one term President too.
To those who say Carter had poor military/defense spending, keep in mind nuclear spending increased under Carter.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:28 pm

Good points Superfly, He also gave the go ahead for the F117 stealth fighter and several other stealth projects.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:43 pm

Quoting Superfly (reply 43):
To those who say Carter had poor military/defense spending, keep in mind nuclear spending increased under Carter


Superfly, let me speak from experience . . . . just from my small corner of the United States Army.

Carter's administration hacked away at military spending in every single facet. Let me elaborate.

  • Lowest paid troops in a generation (Reagan's initial raise to the troops was 13.5% in the year he took office) which corresponded to . . .

  • some of the lowest voluntary enlistement and reenlistment rates since World War 2. What increases or on par averages were maintained were there because a lot of folks simply joined the military to get a job in the devastating US economy under Carter.

  • Lowest equipment OR (Operational Readiness) rate since the end of the Korean War. I was at Ft. Hood and then on to Germany. At Ft. Hood we had a tank, in the 18 months I was there, that never left the motorpool - awaiting parts which weren't getting purchased. We often combined crews from 2 different tanks just make a whole crew on one tank.

  • Spare Parts unobtainable - no money. I have waited as long as three months for a Tank Engine while assigned to a Forward Deployed Combat Loaded Tank Battalion in Germany.

  • Training for Warfighting. No fuel, so no training. No bullets, so no training. Tank Gunnery was cut to twice a year, maneuver training cut to twice a year. Previous levels had been four or five rotations a year to Gunnery and an MTA (Major Training Area).

    There's more.

  • Facilities and Infrastructure. Crumbling military buildings. Soldiers (all branches) living in substandard quarters. Malfunctioning bathroom facilities, non-functioning heating systems. No Operations and Maintenance money to keep them running.

    Take a good look at history - and military spending - and then come back and make the statement that Carter was strong on defense spending. You're simply dead wrong.

    I assure you, he absolutely was not.

    As I said before - President Carter is a great stateman. Probably would have been a better SecState. I have a great deal of respect for what he (and his wife) have accomplished after leaving the White House.

    As far as his presidency goes, from a GIs perspective, he was an abysmal failure, on all avenues that relate to the military.
  •  
    Superfly
    Posts: 37705
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    RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

    Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:45 pm

    DC10GUY:
    ......and he also deregulated the airline industry. Many economic conservative were overjoyed when he did that. Be caution when presenting conservatives with teh truth because they can't handle the truth.
    Wait a minute, Carter wasn't a liberal afterall. That damn right-wing Southern Baptist!  Pissed  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

    Just kidding! Big grin


    Interesting how conservatives dislike the guy for no reason at all. He shared many conservative economic ideals and he was elected governor of Georgia in 1970 and he swept the south when elected in 1976. Bleeding heart liberals never win in that region.
    The conservatives here are just blowing hot air.
    As far as inflation goes, that was a problem that started under Nixon, continued under Ford and Carter.
    One of President Ford's campaign slogans was 'Whip Inflation Now'.
    It was a problem before Carter came to Washington.
     
    Falcon84
    Topic Author
    Posts: 13775
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    RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

    Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:55 pm

    Interesting how conservatives dislike the guy for no reason at all.

    Supe, most conservatives on here, that I've seen, LIKE the guy a lot; they think he's a wonderful human being, but face it, his presidency was a disaster, economically, militarily, politically. If it was so great, why did he get one term?

    Bleeding heart liberals never win in that region.

    They don't now. Hell, even Clinton couldn't sweep it. You do remember 1976 was almost 30 years ago? Different era. And the Reagan election made the "solid south" red, not blue, ever since, for the most part.

    Carter is a fantastic human being-probably the best MAN ever to hold the office, but we should never have elected him. He wasn't up to the task. I hate to say this, but he was probably too honest for the job.

    [Edited 2005-02-22 06:18:32]
     
    DC10GUY
    Posts: 2590
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    RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

    Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:57 pm

    Yet another excellent post Superfly, Things in America wasn't so good when Jimmy Carter inherited what was left of the Nixon sham. 8 years of shame. He did the best he could. History is showing what a great man he is. And he could run again ....
     
    ANCFlyer
    Posts: 21391
    Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

    RE: USS Jimmy Carter Enters Service

    Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:01 pm

    Quoting Falcon84 (reply 47):
    If it was so great, why did he get one term?


    As a caveat, why did Reagan whip him like a puppy in the general election. I've never seen a more one-sided election ever. Even the historically democratically strong states sent him packing . . .

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