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mdsh00
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Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:01 am

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7182628/

SAN FRANCISCO - A judge ruled Monday that California's ban on gay marriage is unconstitutional — a legal milestone that, if upheld on appeal, would open the way for the most populous state to follow Massachusetts in allowing same-sex couples to wed.

Judge Richard Kramer of San Francisco County's trial-level Superior Court likened the ban to laws requiring racial segregation in schools, and said there appears to be "no rational purpose" for denying marriage to gay couples.

The ruling came in response to lawsuits filed by the city of San Francisco and a dozen gay couples a year ago after the California Supreme Court halted a four-week same-sex marriage spree started by Mayor Gavin Newsom.

The opinion had been eagerly awaited because of San Francisco's historical role as a gay rights battleground...


Thoughts and opinions? I am thinking this will apply to the whole state if the appeal isn't sucessful.
 
b757300
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:25 am

More legislating from the bench by a black robed, gavel pounding tyrant.

Liberals know that they can't force their agenda on people through legislation so they have to use to courts to try and get their agenda through. The more they do this the more they will turn off the vast majority of Americans. If the left continues to get judges to subvert the will of the people, the left's defeat in 2004 will seem like a draw come 2006 and 2008.
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Matt D
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:31 am

One of the basic rules of nature:

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".

'Nuff said.


It's no longer about who is right or wrong. Only who can wield the most influence and pissing off the other "side".

As I said a few months ago, it's only going to continue to escalate until one side is finally forced into submissive defeat-

-or else a second full scale Civil War will break out.
 
Newark777
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:32 am

Quoting Mdsh00 (Thread starter):
Judge Richard Kramer of San Francisco County's trial-level Superior Court likened the ban to laws requiring racial segregation in schools, and said there appears to be "no rational purpose" for denying marriage to gay couples.

The part that disturbs me is that the judge seems as though he is trying to find a purpose for the legislation, not judging its constitutionality. It doesn't matter if the judge can't find a "rational purpose" for it. I don't see a "rational purpose" for many laws, but that doesn't make them unconstitutional.

Harry
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mbmbos
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:34 am

"More legislating from the bench by a black robed, gavel pounding tyrant."

When a ruling doesn't go your way, it's an activist court. When they rule your way, they are interpreting the constitution literally and justly.

How transparent you are.
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flyyul
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:40 am

So B757300, what is the rationale behind your judgment  Wink

Im interested Big grinD
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:29 am

"More legislating from the bench by a black robed, gavel pounding tyrant."

Is that what you call literal interpretation of the Constitution, both state and federal?
I don't take responsibility at all
 
aloges
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:32 am

OK, B757300. Besides you not liking it, do you have any real points against gay marriage? That excludes "It's always not been that way!"
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
11Bravo
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:45 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 3):
The part that disturbs me is that the judge seems as though he is trying to find a purpose for the legislation, not judging its constitutionality. It doesn't matter if the judge can't find a "rational purpose" for it. I don't see a "rational purpose" for many laws, but that doesn't make them unconstitutional.

Contrary to your understanding, it is in fact a requirement that laws serve a “rational purpose”, or they are unconstitutional. It is a fundamental premise of the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment that laws not be “arbitrary and capricious” and that they serve a “compelling state interest”.

For those who are interested in reading the actual opinion before coming to unfounded conclusions here’s a link.

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/glrts/inremarriage31405opn.pdf
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Newark777
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:59 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 8):
Contrary to your understanding, it is in fact a requirement that laws serve a “rational purpose”, or they are unconstitutional. It is a fundamental premise of the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment that laws not be “arbitrary and capricious” and that they serve a “compelling state interest”.

Could you provide a source or quote for that? I looked through the 14th Amendment and couldn't find anything about that.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
Superfly
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:23 pm

So I guess all of those 'activist judges' that decided against school segregation were tyrannts too, huh?
Do you conservatives hate the Brown vs. Board of Education deciscion in 1954?
I am sure the "the vast majority" of voters in some states would have vehemently oppose desegregation.


Let the gays get married. What's the big deal?
Mary Cheney and Maya Keys are intitled to a honeymoon and a tax cut.
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L-188
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:26 pm

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 3):
The part that disturbs me is that the judge seems as though he is trying to find a purpose for the legislation, not judging its constitutionality. It doesn't matter if the judge can't find a "rational purpose" for it. I don't see a "rational purpose" for many laws, but that doesn't make them unconstitutional.

Agreed, this guy seems like he is trying to make law, not decided law. There is a different that most judges seem to have forgotten.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 8):
Contrary to your understanding, it is in fact a requirement that laws serve a “rational purpose”, or they are unconstitutional. It is a fundamental premise of the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment that laws not be “arbitrary and capricious” and that they serve a “compelling state interest

Tell that to a gun owner in California. It is a nice theory, but laws aren't applied equally, for example, out of the entire bill of rights, only the second amendment hasn't been applied to the states.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:29 pm

"Do you conservatives hate the Brown vs. Board of Education deciscion in 1954?"

No true conservative would call for a ban on gay marriage.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
11Bravo
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:29 pm

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 9):
Could you provide a source or quote for that? I looked through the 14th Amendment and couldn't find anything about that.

The amendment itself says, among other things:

“…nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”

The concepts of “arbitrary and capricious” and “compelling state interest” arise from case law from the US Supreme Court and other courts in decisions dealing with 14th Amendment issues. If you want specific citations, there are several in the decision I linked. The judge in this decision explains these concepts and the application at some length.

Laws that seek to limit or abolish gay marriage are often struck down on the basis of an Equal Protection Clause violation. That is why some people are so interested in a Marriage Amendment to the US Constitution. They know that statutory laws and state amendments are unlikely to withstand an Equal Protection challenge.
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11Bravo
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:32 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
Tell that to a gun owner in California.

Actually, I am a gun owner in California. I guess I don't understand your point.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
Falcon84
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:38 pm

Is that what you call literal interpretation of the Constitution, both state and federal?

Only when B757300 doesn't get his way, Maverick. Any conservative judge who does something similar that he agrees with is some kind of Saint in the same black robe.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
N5176Y
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:44 pm

I don't understand why the movement in support of gay marriage thinks that going through the courts rather than the legislative bodies is beneficial. All your going to do is get people pissed off at "activist judges" and pass amendments to their constitutions. That's gonna prove alot more difficult to remove in the long run.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:57 pm

In the long run, N5176Y, gay marriage will become legal in this country. It may take a decade or two, but it will. I do not agree with gay marriage, but i also don't agree with using the Constitution of the United States to tell a group of citizens that they're not welcome to practice "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" in some form.

This conservative revival will eventually fade in this nation-the pendulum will swing again, as it always has, and when it does, gays will be free to marry.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
SFOMEX
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:01 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
So I guess all of those 'activist judges' that decided against school segregation were tyrannts too, huh?

I think that linking gay marriage to the civil right's movement is a huge mistake. Gays are anything but an oppressed minority in the USA. If you want to see real homophobia go to some Latin American or African countries. Gay marriage has become a divisive issue that is hurting gays in America more than any fundamentalist group ever dares to dream.

I just can't see why is a good idea to piss off most of the country for a piece of paper that say you are legally married. Civil partnership is a legal contract that most americans support which in the end will give gay couples the same rights than straight ones.
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N5176Y
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:03 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 17):
In the long run, N5176Y, gay marriage will become legal in this country

I believe in the long run it will too... but going through the courts only forces legislative bodies to ammend their constitutions specifically prohibiting gay marriage. That's alot harder to change in the future.
 
airbus3801
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:08 pm

Quoting B757300 (Reply 1):
More legislating from the bench by a black robed, gavel pounding tyrant.

Liberals know that they can't force their agenda on people through legislation so they have to use to courts to try and get their agenda through. The more they do this the more they will turn off the vast majority of Americans. If the left continues to get judges to subvert the will of the people, the left's defeat in 2004 will seem like a draw come 2006 and 2008.

We all know that you will come crying to the courts when you cant watch cock fighting on your satellite TV anymore......

I don't see why you should even care about who gets married and to whome, and it is best that you might consider making racist statements (and untrue for that matter) somewhere else.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:11 pm

Gays are anything but an oppressed minority in the USA.

Sure. That's why they're the poster child for the right for amending the Constitution; that's why they can't serve in the military; that's why many don't want them to serve in "sensitive" positions dealing with National Security. And you say they're not "oppressed"?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
airbus3801
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:15 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
Sure. That's why they're the poster child for the right for amending the Constitution; that's why they can't serve in the military; that's why many don't want them to serve in "sensitive" positions dealing with National Security. And you say they're not "oppressed"?

Amen! People sometimes even get fired because of their sexuality (though the employer gives another reason for their termination because it is illegal to fire someone for their sexuality or it would be legal if you had an At-Will Contract). How in the world can you say that they are not oppressed
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:15 pm

So much of this onslaught of gay marriage talk (especially pre-election) was started by the Republicans. You gotta bet that it was Karl Roves goal for it to become as big of an issue as possible to 'scare' people away (because we all know as soon as gays are allowed to marry, the country is going straight to hell....). I believe this issue alone won Ohio, and subsequently the election for Bush..by design- scare tactics for the bigots, and the misinformed. The talk is furthered by all this Constitutional amendment bullshit.

I agree that the civil partnership is the best way to initially go, as a sort of middle road. At the end of the day Marriage is still just an 8 letter word, but one these conservatives will fight to the bitter end for ( to protect the sanctity of marriage in a country where half end in divorce and "who wants to marry a multi-millionaire, but thats a whole nother story) It's really interesting to think about W's debate comments on this issue, and his election time support of benefits of civil partnerships. Now its just the occasional contitutional ban talk. Where's a push for some equal rights/civil union legislation, Mr. President?
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N5176Y
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:15 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
that's why they can't serve in the military; that's why many don't want them to serve in "sensitive" positions dealing with National Security

Hey, that's a Clinton policy. Bush's policy, as seen on the "tapes," is that he isn't gonna judge nor fire anyone because they're gay.
 
SFOMEX
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:33 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
Sure. That's why they're the poster child for the right for amending the Constitution; that's why they can't serve in the military; that's why many don't want them to serve in "sensitive" positions dealing with National Security. And you say they're not "oppressed"?

Compare that "oppression" to what African Americans and Hispanics, among other minorities, had to endure before the Civil Rights movement. That's why I believe is clueless to link that movement to the push for gay marriage.

Sure, life for gays is not a discrimination-free deal, but lets get real for a second about this. Gay marriage is hurting gays everywhere and slowing civil partnership legislation.
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
S12PPL
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:38 pm

Quoting B757300 (Reply 1):
More legislating from the bench by a black robed, gavel pounding tyrant.

Grow up, moron. Just because you don't agree with the ruling, does not mean it is horribly wrong. Just because you are homophobic doesn't give you the right to decide how the world lives.

I'll say it again. GROW UP!
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Aaron747
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:13 pm

More sauce for B753's goose...

Judge Richard Kramer is a married Catholic appointed to the San Francisco court by former Republican governor Pete Wilson. Prior to his judicial service he worked as a litigator for more than 15 years defending banks against class action lawsuits.
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N1120A
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:57 pm

Quoting B757300 (Reply 1):
More legislating from the bench by a black robed, gavel pounding tyrant.

No, this is not legislating from the bench, it is a judge exercizing his power to rule on constitutional issues.

Quoting B757300 (Reply 1):
Liberals know that they can't force their agenda on people through legislation

You mean like conservatives do all the time?

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 9):
Could you provide a source or quote for that? I looked through the 14th Amendment and couldn't find anything about that.

Brown v. Board of Educ., 349 U.S. 294 (1955)

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 25):
Compare that "oppression" to what African Americans and Hispanics, among other minorities, had to endure before the Civil Rights movement. That's why I believe is clueless to link that movement to the push for gay marriage.

Except that African-Americans, Hispanics and other miniorities can serve their country, marry whomever they want, be open with who they are, etc., etc. This movement is exactly the same as undertaken by all other groups.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
lekohawk
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:33 pm

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 23):
At the end of the day Marriage is still just an 8 letter word

Hmm... I respectfully disagree with the premise you're setting up there. Although marriage is a mere eight-letter word (and will most likely continue to be for the near future) the "institution" of marriage, beyond the simple legal meaning, is a huge portion of the social fabric of the country. It does a social disservice, therefore, to disinclude people from it on the rather shallow/base level that we are.

If anyone's interested, there's a great book out called "Gay Marriage" by Jonathan Rauch (ISBN: 0-8050-7633-6). The subtitle is "Why it is good for gays, good for straights, and good for America". It goes about the task of detailing why everyone - even John Q. Conservative in Podunk, Middle America - would benefit from calling gay marriage, "marriage" and making it into what it should be... i.e. the same thing that every straight person has the opportunity to achieve. The author makes a very compelling argument, and I've loaned it to several friends of mine who have had to rethink their opinions since reading it. I highly reccomend checking it out from the library or something for anyone who's interested.
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
 
mdsh00
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:42 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 27):
Judge Richard Kramer is a married Catholic appointed to the San Francisco court by former Republican governor Pete Wilson. Prior to his judicial service he worked as a litigator for more than 15 years defending banks against class action lawsuits.

Sounds to me like that this guy isn't a textbook "liberal." If he were Republican, B757300 would just call him a RINO.
 
CPH-R
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:42 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
No true conservative would call for a ban on gay marriage.

Amen. Just as any true conservative would a) run a small government, b) run a healthy fiscal policy & c) keep out of people's private lives. Unfortunately, Bush does neither of the three.
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:47 pm

Quoting B757300 (Reply 1):
Liberals know that they can't force their agenda on people through legislation so they have to use to courts to try and get their agenda through.

Just as you can't presume to deny people the rights associated with marriage because you don't think gay marriage is right. Individual freedoms outweigh your mighty opinion my friend - and this judge has recognised that.

Quoting Matt D (Reply 2):
As I said a few months ago, it's only going to continue to escalate until one side is finally forced into submissive defeat-

This will go around and around and around the courts until the majority accepts gay marriage. It's as simple as that and I guarantee that is how things will turn out. You cannot simply reverse a social tide completely - as conservatives are trying to do.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 11):
Agreed, this guy seems like he is trying to make law, not decided law. There is a different that most judges seem to have forgotten.

In most western countries judges are empowered to create common law. I don't believe this judge has overstepped his sphere of responsibility.

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 18):
I just can't see why is a good idea to piss off most of the country for a piece of paper that say you are legally married.

It is not just a piece of paper. There are certain rights that come with a marriage - property, next of kin, access to your partner while in hospital - ther are many reasons - not to mention the obvious emotional weight it can carry for people. Because countries like the US UK and Australia are supposed to be secular, why should gay marriage be dissaproved of on religious grounds - when marriage is supposed to be exclusively legal union in the eyes of the law.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
NWAFA
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:08 pm

Maybe a first step to stamp out discrimination...But as long as we have the Christian right CRAMMING down THEIR belief...that THEIR belief is the ONLY way to live life.


American's are free to live life they want to, as long as they live life like WE say you should...thats how the friggn' "moral Christian right say".
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Orion737
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:19 pm

Britain will soon introduce gay partnerships bill. I think it is a long overdue recognition of long-term relationships and will encourage and promote loving, lasting and monogamous relationships.

If I had the protection that would have been afforded me under the new bill, I would not have lost out so much financially after my recent split.
 
Superfly
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:36 am

Will any conservative here at least try to answer my simple question?
Why do you all feel that Mary Cheney and Maya Keys aren't intitled to a honeymoon and a tax cut?
Bring back the Concorde
 
jaysit
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:49 am

Why do you all feel that Mary Cheney and Maya Keys aren't intitled to a honeymoon and a tax cut?

Why? Are they dating now?

If so, I think that Mary would take out the trash in that relationship, and Maya would make flapjacks for breakfast.

Although I think that Maya is a pretty girl and could have done much better than Mary.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
N1120A
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:51 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 35):
Why do you all feel that Mary Cheney and Maya Keys aren't intitled to a honeymoon and a tax cut?

That is actually pretty funny. You have to remember that only one of the two of them is a "soldier" for the right.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Superfly
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:03 am

No they aren't dating each other but they are both lesbians and should be intitled to marry the woman they want,
as long as I am not attracted to them.  Wink
Bring back the Concorde
 
jaysit
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:05 am

I would love to see Dick give Mary away to a nice girl, while Mommie-dearest Lynne continues to scream "my daughter is not a lesbian."
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26650
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:51 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 38):
No they aren't dating each other but they are both lesbians and should be intitled to marry the woman they want,
as long as I am not attracted to them.

You mean unless you are attracted to them or they work for Vivid Productions Big grin
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Superfly
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:54 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 39):
I would love to see Dick give Mary away to a nice girl, while Mommie-dearest Lynne continues to scream "my daughter is not a lesbian."

That was f--king hillarious!  Silly





N1120A:
What is Vivid Productions?
Bring back the Concorde
 
daedaeg
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:06 am

This will definitely lead to a constitutional referendum for the California voters come 2006. Now California along with 13 other states will make gay marriage unconstitutional.
Everyday you're alive is a good day.
 
N1120A
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:36 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 41):
N1120A:
What is Vivid Productions?

World's largest porn company
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
11Bravo
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:42 am

Quoting Daedaeg (Reply 42):
This will definitely lead to a constitutional referendum for the California voters come 2006. Now California along with 13 other states will make gay marriage unconstitutional.

Those state amendments are very likely to be struck down as well at the Federal level for the same reasons. At some point this issue will be brought before the US Supreme Court. The current court’s rulings on gay related issues cannot be very encouraging for opponents of gay marriage. A Texas sodomy case and a Colorado “anti-gay rights” case were both struck down on 6-3 votes by the current court.

Most people in the US oppose gay marriage, but the hurdles of passing a Federal Constitutional Amendment are very high. Current polling suggests that such an amendment would have great difficulty getting through Congress to say nothing of the 38 state votes required for ratification.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
N1120A
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:48 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 44):
Most people in the US oppose gay marriage

Depends if you like to rely on polls

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 44):
Those state amendments are very likely to be struck down as well at the Federal level for the same reasons.

They will certainly not be able to stop a couple that gets married in MA (possibly now CA as well) from remaining married in their state. That would violate the Full Faith and Credit clause of the Constitution, as does the federal DOMA
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Superfly
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RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:54 am

I can't believe the amount of energy waisted on this issue by conservatives.




Think about for a moment. Conservative should support gay marriage.
Conservatives hate gay sex. Well since sex stops once you get married, there will be less gay sex! Big grin
Bring back the Concorde
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5748
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:42 am

Isn't it great how B757300 is always the first to post in such a thread, then never returns to address all the counterpoints against his illogical tripe?

Come out, come out wherever you are.... (double entendre intended).
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26650
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:52 am

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 47):
Isn't it great how B757300 is always the first to post in such a thread, then never returns to address all the counterpoints against his illogical tripe?

Well, it is more fun for us TWFirst.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Judge Strikes Down CA Gay Marriage Ban

Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:04 am

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 47):
Isn't it great how B757300 is always the first to post in such a thread, then never returns to address all the counterpoints against his illogical tripe?

Come out, come out wherever you are.... (double entendre intended).

He has to consult with Dicky Flat first.
Remember that other wacko from Texas (Phil Graham) who cited some high school P.E. teacher named Dicky Flat for his deciscions?
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