I find this very annoying. Very Very annoying. Why is it that some jackass can't drive a car when he is 20 so the insurance rates are high for everybody? It's the same as discriminating by race/color. I find the gambling age very annoying. There are people like me who understand when you go to a casino in LAS that the odds are against you etc., But as usual some retarded person who was 18 gambles all there money away then sues. I'm tired of living in a world where I can't do sh*t because someone else ruins it for everyone else. It is also annoying and I know it is to other people that you can go to Iraq and die but you can't rent a hotel room in Las Vegas. So why should I be punished because some a**hole can't drive? We need a better way of placing restrictions on the younger population than just restrict everybody. Something needs to be changed. People are ready to move on in the world (I'm not saying I am, just in general) at different times. This bothers me very much and I know my mom is tired of me bitching about it.

Now that I'm done bitching, what's your thoughts?

Don't forget drinking, which I think is most ridiculous, with the age set at 21. We all do it anyway, so it is certainly not stopping underage drinking. If anything, it promotes immature and irrational attitudes and actions towards drinking, promoting this culture of binge drinking and drunkenness. Other cultures have it right, slowly introducing alcohol to them at an earlier age and teaching them responsibility. Just my $0.02.  

Harry

Iowaman:
I agree with you. I can't imagine why insurance companies are allowed to do this. Insurance rates should be based on driving record and/or miles driven per year.

You can sample data by all sorts of demographics and find descrepencies but the insurance companies chose to ream the easiest target. Young people.


Just an example;
A 17 year old guy fresh out of drivers training drives 20,000 miles in one year and has two accidents, he is still safer than the 81 year old that drives 500 miles a year and has one accident.
The 17 year old averages 1 accident every 10,000 miles while the 81 year averages 1 accident every 500 miles. Who should pay the higher rate?

Iowaman: I understand your anger but don't worry you will become faster old, than you wish  

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 1): Don't forget drinking, which I think is most ridiculous, with the age set at 21

This really is only an US problem. I never saw something more ridiculous. With 18 you may sign contracts, vote or go to the army and learn how to kill people, but you are not allowed to drink a beer.    In Switzerland the drinking age is 16 for wine and beer and 18 for harder drinks, like liquors. I know that we don't have any more alcohol addicts than the US. It is better to learn legally drinking beer with 16 than to wait till 21 and then exaggerate.

You can blame the feds for essentially blackmailing all the states to change the drinking age to 21 by threatening to cut off highway funding if they didn't...it used to be 18 up until about 20-25 years ago, perhaps? Not sure of the exact date...

As for gambling, that's also a state-by-state thing, and in some cases a "tribe-by-tribe" thing in the case of Indian casinos, where the state tells the tribe that they can set the age...in Florida you can gamble at some casinos legally at 18...I've done it before!

Greg

Quoting ZRH (Reply 3): It is better to learn legally drinking beer with 16 than to wait till 21 and then exaggerate.

That is exactly the point I was trying to make. By raising the age to 21, it is like handing a kid the keys to an F1 car the day he gets his license, with no prior driving experience or training. It is the cause of all these alcohol poisoning cases we hear about all the time.

Harry

None of what has been discussed can be classed as "Age Discrimination" in my opinion.

Certain activities are "regulated". Age must be considered as a factor when applying regulation.

Insurance? Insurance companies go through a great deal of work to develop the premium structures. When young guys stop having so many accidents, perhaps you will see the trend change. In the mean time, your beef should be with the huge amount of young men who have terrible driving habits.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2): A 17 year old guy fresh out of drivers training drives 20,000 miles in one year and has two accidents, he is still safer than the 81 year old that drives 500 miles a year and has one accident.

Wrong. From an insurance company's point of view, both of those people pay premiums for the same period of insurance. Insurance companies would love if if you insured your car every year but left it parked in the garage. If you chose to increase your exposure to risk by driving it more, it shouldn't force others to absorb the added cost.

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 5): That is exactly the point I was trying to make. By raising the age to 21, it is like handing a kid the keys to an F1 car the day he gets his license, with no prior driving experience or training. It is the cause of all these alcohol poisoning cases we hear about all the time.

This is really true. We have here some high school fraternities in which they drink beer at their weekly meetings. You are only allowed to join them from age of 16 on. When these kids go to university they usually know how to handle alcohol. Regarding driving and drinking we have clear laws and it is controlled by the police. Amongst the youths it is becoming more and more common that several people use one car, one person is the driver and he/she does not drink any alcohol. In my city we also have excellent public transportation. In the nights Friday/Saturday and Saturday/Sunday they even run throughout the whole night. Then you don't have to drive and care about drinking.

I agree with a lot of people here about lowering the drinking age, and some other things to maybe 16 or 18, but you have got to be kidding me, Iowaman. Have you honestly thought about what you are saying? Should we really allow 13 year olds to gamble, drink, drive, smoke. Hey, why stop there? Lets let 7 years olds do all this. Dude, you are not being punished, it is simply that you need a certain level of intelligence and maturity to do certain things, and I personally don't think 7 year olds are qualified to drive. 

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 1): Don't forget drinking, which I think is most ridiculous, with the age set at 21. We all do it anyway, so it is certainly not stopping underage drinking. If anything, it promotes immature and irrational attitudes and actions towards drinking, promoting this culture of binge drinking and drunkenness. Other cultures have it right, slowly introducing alcohol to them at an earlier age and teaching them responsibility.

That's so true, a lot of people turn 21 and go crazy. I think a lot of "underage" drinking is rebellion, just because it's illegal they do it, where as if anyone could have beer it wouldn't be such a big deal. 90% of the population drink alcohol by the age of 19. Doesn't that law show how effective it is?

Quoting Airplay (Reply 6): Insurance? Insurance companies go through a great deal of work to develop the premium structures. When young guys stop having so many accidents, perhaps you will see the trend change. In the mean time, your beef should be with the huge amount of young men who have terrible driving habits.

True, but it still isn't right 70% of the population has a bad driving record so I should have to pay more because they can't drive.

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 5): Quoting ZRH (Reply 3): It is better to learn legally drinking beer with 16 than to wait till 21 and then exaggerate. That is exactly the point I was trying to make. By raising the age to 21, it is like handing a kid the keys to an F1 car the day he gets his license, with no prior driving experience or training. It is the cause of all these alcohol poisoning cases we hear about all the time.

Exactly.

Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 4): As for gambling, that's also a state-by-state thing, and in some cases a "tribe-by-tribe" thing in the case of Indian casinos, where the state tells the tribe that they can set the age...in Florida you can gamble at some casinos legally at 18

Good, I feel 18 should be the age for gambling since you can sign contracts, go to war, etc. The one thing I find amusing is Iowa is one of the very few states where you have to be 21 to buy a lottery ticket, but cigs. are 18, so you can smoke and get cancer but not spend $1 on a lottery ticket.

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 9): True, but it still isn't right 70% of the population has a bad driving record so I should have to pay more because they can't drive.

OK...so how do you suggest the insurance companies handle it? Just use the same insurance premiums and make older (more responsible drivers) pay for younger (more irresponsible) drivers? How is that fair?

Quoting BRAVO7E7 (Reply 8): Have you honestly thought about what you are saying? Should we really allow 13 year olds to gamble, drink, drive, smoke.

No, most of the population that is 13 does not know the risks completely, even though I'm almost 15 and I believe I do.

Quoting ZRH (Reply 7): Regarding driving and drinking we have clear laws and it is controlled by the police.

I agree, drinking and driving should be illegal, why should I be a crash victim if the other person that ran into me have to much to drink.

Quoting BRAVO7E7 (Reply 8): Dude, you are not being punished, it is simply that you need a certain level of intelligence and maturity to do certain things,

It's not that I believe I'm being punished it's that I believe people mature at different ages and that a certain specified age is not right for everybody, especially 21 for beer.

Quoting Airplay (Reply 6): both of those people pay premiums for the same period of insurance.

But they don't.
A 20 year old guy with a clean driving record and had it since he was 16 will stll pay higher car insurance than the 81 that had an accident within that year.

My point is that age, sex, marital status, zip code, gender shouldn't be a factor when determining auto insurance.
It should be based by the drivers driving record period.

Quoting Airplay (Reply 10): OK...so how do you suggest the insurance companies handle it? Just use the same insurance premiums and make older (more responsible drivers) pay for younger (more irresponsible) drivers? How is that fair?

Check how they did on there driving test, previous accidents, etc.

Quoting Iowaman (Thread starter): There are people like me who understand when you go to a casino in LAS that the odds are against you etc., But as usual some retarded person who was 18 gambles

I guess age is the only quantifiable way to pinpoint who would have the most problems with gambling. As far as making it illegal for retarded people to gamble, I'd have to disagree with that, cause I sure could make some money off that guy wearing a helmet at the poker table.   

Quoting Iowaman (Thread starter): a world where I can't do sh*t because someone else ruins it for everyone else

You'll just have to get used to that one. There are a lot of old people who screw up and ruin it for everyone else, too.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2): Insurance rates should be based on driving record and/or miles driven per year.

If you drive in a place like NY city, you can expect to encounter a higher risk to your car than in a palce such as Boise, regardless of how many miles you drive.

Quoting ZRH (Reply 3): With 18 you may sign contracts, vote or go to the army and learn how to kill people, but you are not allowed to drink a beer

Maybe cause they might think you'll drink beer and kill the wrong people. I've never been able to figure that one out either.  

Quoting BRAVO7E7 (Reply 8): Should we really allow 13 year olds to gamble, drink, drive, smoke

That depends on who you ask. Michael Jackson would probably say yes.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2): I can't imagine why insurance companies are allowed to do this.

What do you mean you can't imagine why?????
The answer's simple as hell-- all the rest of you say it with me:

....because as a whole,
young people don't vote,
therefore the government will not hesitate to shaft them at a moment's notice.

Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 4): it used to be 18 up until about 20-25 years ago, perhaps?

No, 1994...

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12): It should be based by the drivers driving record period.

OK...so a 50 year driving record with one or two accidents is better than a 2 year driving record with no accidents. Isn't it?

The point is, that people are judged on their driving record. If you have a bad driving record, you have increased insurance premiums. When you are young, the insurance company has no data on you personally but lots of information supporting the simple fact that younger drivers aren't as safe as older drivers.

So should the insurance company be responsible for testing you out?

[Edited 2005-03-17 02:47:45]

Quoting Airplay (Reply 16): OK...so a 50 year driving record with one or two accidents is better than a 2 year driving record with no accidents. Isn't it?

Actually... Statistically.. No.

No no no. If the drinking age was lowered to 19 18 20 what ever under age drinking would go up and drunk driving accidents too. How can underage drinking go up if you lower the age. Well there are 18 year olds in High School who know 14 year olds. So hey give that guy a little extra money and we 14 year olds can get the drinks easy. Its a smart law to have at 21. Everyone drinks before they are 21 so to people that kill themselves from drinking to much once they turn 21 are just stupid.
The culture in the US is different, we cant compare are drinking laws with other areas of the world.
Now with what many of you are saying is that people drink because its against the law and cool to break the law. So if the age went up to 25 do you think underage drinking would go up or down?
It would go down because less people would be able to get easy access to it.

Insurance companies have all the rights to make prices higher for younger drivers. They are going to be in more crashes. How can you set price on driving record if the person has not even driven yet? I pretty sure that Automotive accidents is the leading cause of death to teenagers, that's not enough proof that teenagers are not as good drivers. Sure some are fine but many are bad and the insurance companies cant base it on driving records since new drivers don't have any.

TheCoz: I don't know those country roads and highways and open streets have a lot of accidents too. I thinking driving in 20MPH traffic is a little safer?

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 15): No, 1994...

You got a link for something specifying 1994? A quick Google search is telling me that the feds passed the "Uniform Drinking Age Act" in 1984 and all states subsequently had their drinking ages up to 21 by 1988...

Greg

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 18): How can you set price on driving record if the person has not even driven yet?

Sort of like when you get benefits with some employer's when you first start working for them, no questions asked.

First I would like to make a point for all of the people fighting about that the problem is we don't have a younger age for drinking beer and wine. In most states you may drink in your residence in the presence of your gaurdian... And I am 16 so no bias here..

If you're so upset about being 18 and wanting to legally drink, hop on a flight to another country. I agree that if younger people would all vote the laws could change, but that's not going to happen. My theory is that people will drink no matter what. If you raise the drinking age people will still get the beer. Drinking is a way of rebellion for adolescents and if the laws were altered that thinking would decrease. The current laws are ineffective, and don't stop much. By having the age at 21 what does that accomplish? I just don't get it. People should be eased into drinking and not all of the sudden thrown out there at 21 or at some weekend party. Too angry to put my thoughts into words

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 13): No, 1994..

no not in all states, when I was 20 in 1980 in California I did not get beer.

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 15): No no no. If the drinking age was lowered to 19 18 20 what ever under age drinking would go up

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 15): The culture in the US is different, we cant compare are drinking laws with other areas of the world.

Drinking age 21 is ridicules. Either you are grown up with 18 or not! If you are grown up you should be allowed to do anything, what an adult may do. Drinking some beer does not need more maturity than voting or driving a car. When you say 18 year olds are not able to drink beer, I don't want them to vote. When you say US has an other culture, than it may be right, but then the US teens are really very immature. I now understand the complaints of Iowaboy... sorry man   , it seems that the US teens are treated like kindergarten kids. Why may 18 year old teens go to the army but are not allowed drinking some really very harmless beer? With beer you have to drink very very much to get heavy drunk (specially with weak American beer).

Quoting ZRH (Reply 20): it seems that the US teens are treated like kindergarten kids.

Yep.

A 9pm curfew in Vegas for anyone under 18 in Las Vegas seems a little early.

TEEN REGULATION: Strip curfew catches visitor unaware
Those under 18 not allowed out unaccompanied after 9 p.m. on weekends, holidays

By RICHARD LAKE
REVIEW-JOURNAL



On his 1,500-mile trip to Las Vegas, Donald Van Slyke rode in a broken-down car that died in Texas and took a 36-hour bus ride across the desert before he was able to hitch the last leg from Phoenix with a friend.

When he finally made it to the Strip, he was promptly busted for breaking a law he didn't know existed.

The 17-year-old visitor from Arkansas was cited for violating curfew.

"I was shocked, a little bit, and surprised," said Vickie Arp, 42, a family friend and recent Las Vegas transplant with whom Van Slyke is staying this summer.

"Especially with Donald being from out of town."

Local ordinances forbid anyone under 18 from being on the Strip after 9 p.m. on weekends and holidays without a parent. Elsewhere in the county, minors cannot be out without parents after 10 p.m. on school nights, and midnight on the weekends.

As the school year came to an end last week for most teens, the Metropolitan Police Department had issued more than 700 curfew citations, said Sgt. Chris Darcy, a department spokesman. Last year, 2,800 citations were issued. Darcy said the department does not keep separate statistics for Strip curfew violators and other curfew violators.

"The purpose behind the curfew is to keep large groups of kids under 18 that aren't engaged in any positive activity away from the areas where it might affect tourism," Darcy said.

He said some teens who frequent the Strip have been known to harass tourists and other people by yelling profanities, walking into traffic, and driving erratically.

"Curfew is just one of the things that an officer can use out there" to control crowds of teen-agers, he said. Aggressive traffic enforcement and curbing underage drinking are also goals of Strip area officers, he said.

He said the curfew also is aimed at protecting children from dangers they might encounter late at night.

Randall Shelden, a University of Nevada, Las Vegas criminal justice professor, said studies show curfews do little to stop juvenile crime.

"Most of the crimes kids commit are between the hours after school and 7 or 8 o'clock at night," he said.

An informal survey on the Strip on a weeknight last week showed several teens are unaware there is a curfew.

"People don't even know about it," said Michelle Castner, 14, who said she was a student at Las Vegas High School. "There shouldn't even be a curfew."

Her friend, 15-year-old Lerony Pinnachoes, said a curfew would have little effect on her behavior.

"I mean, we're going to do it anyway," she said outside the GameWorks arcade next to the MGM Grand hotel. "It's not like we're doing anything wrong."

Van Slyke, who grew up surrounded by Iowa's corn fields and now lives in Camden, Ark., arrived in Las Vegas the day before Memorial Day weekend.

He and Arp's son, Nathan Pieschke, who moved to Las Vegas in December and turned 18 in March, had been childhood friends in Iowa, and planned to take in the city's sights over the holiday weekend.

Van Slyke said he'd been anticipating his trip for months.

The night he got into town, he and Pieschke visited the Strip. They couldn't wait for the weekend.

"There were all kinds of people everywhere," Pieschke said. "It was the perfect day to be on the Strip."

Van Slyke was impressed.

"Coming from corn fields and straight roads, this sure is a lot different," he said. "It's a lot better, too."

The next night, a Friday, the two teens visited a friend who works at the Luxor, they said, and played video games in the hotel's arcade. They then headed to the GameWorks arcade, just down the street.

It was nearing 10 p.m., an hour after the curfew had gone into effect.

They crossed Tropicana Avenue, and saw a group of eight or 10 uniformed police officers.

Van Slyke said he heard one officer call out: "Hey you two. Come here."

He asked their ages, they said, and asked for identification.

Pieschke provided a driver's license, and Van Slyke a birth certificate.

Van Slyke said when the officer discovered he was almost a month shy of his 18th birthday, he was told to sit on the curb.

Van Slyke explained to the officer that he was from out of town and was unaware of the curfew law. He pointed out that there were no signs posted to inform teens of the curfew.

Pieschke said he pointed out that there were many teens on the Strip, some of them obviously very young and walking by at the very moment the officer pulled out his citation book to write Van Slyke a ticket.

"Hey, she's not 18," he said he told the officer.

"When you become a cop, you can go arrest her," he said the officer replied.

Van Slyke is supposed to bring a parent with him to court, authorities have told him, but he said that will be impossible.

His mother is in Iowa, and his father is in Arkansas. Neither can get to Las Vegas for the hearing, he said.

Darcy said that local teens, especially those with prior curfew violations, are more likely to get cited than tourists.

"Obviously, we have a little bit of leniency. We have discretion, we don't have to cite everybody."

And Clark County Chief Deputy District Attorney Bob Teuton, who oversees the prosecution of juveniles, said Van Slyke probably does not have much to worry about.

Typically, Teuton said, first-time curfew offenders are given either a letter outlining the county's policy, or a lecture by a probation officer on their court date.

Harsh sentences are unusual, he said. Van Slyke is due in court on Friday, his 18th birthday.

Quoting ZRH (Reply 20): no not in all states, when I was 20 in 1980 in California I did not get beer.

I looked it up a little farther...Louisiana did their best to fight the feds and even declared the 21 thing unconstitional at one point, so they are an exception to the rule, but most states, if their drinking age wasn't already 21, changed it to 21 by 1988 following the Uniform Drinking Age Act of 1984...

Greg

ConcordeBoy:
I was going to mention that in my post but I guess I should have.
Young people don't vote but they should.

Quoting TheCoz (Reply 12): I guess age is the only quantifiable way to pinpoint who would have the most problems with............

Insurance companies STILL should not charge rates based on age, sex, marital status, etc...
If these companies are so afraid of who's going to get in an accident, perhaps they should get out of the insurance business all together.
I am sure there is data showing highher accident rates from immigrants from Asia where people drive a lot less. If there rates were higher that would be racist. Drivers insurance should soley be based on the driver's record.
What the driver does outside his/her vehicle shouldn't mean a can of beans to the insurance company.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 24): Drivers insurance should soley be based on the driver's record

Exactly.