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Bofredrik
Topic Author
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It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:14 am

George W. Bush is President.
His brother Jeb is Governor of Florida.
His father has been President.
3 men from the same family.

(I am also thinking of the Kennedy Family... and Clinton.)

Is that what you should expect in a real democracy?

You can find this type of families that have important
jobs as President, Prime Minister etc. It runs in the family...

I am thinking of North Korea as ONE example...

For me is USA a bad example of democracy so pls do not
export your view on this subject...
 
N5176Y
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:15 am

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
For me is USA a bad example of democracy so pls do not export your view on this subject...

How come you're allowed to but not us?
 
174thfwff
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:21 am

Are you kidding me? This is a horrible question. People (not me) VOTED them into office...nobody appointed them.
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
aloges
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:22 am

You forgot about the Roosevelts, Bofrederik...
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
whitehatter
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:24 am

"Tradition of service" is not confined to any nation, democracy or otherwise.

Britain had Pitt the Elder and Younger (both Prime Ministers) and generations of Churchills in elected offices. It is not uncommon to find a tradition in a family for children or other relatives to go into the same trade and politics is really no different.

This does throw up the debate about nepotism, but I can't really see this being an issue in American politics as (for example) President GHW Bush was not able to appoint Jeb or Dubya to their respective Governorships. They may indeed have benefitted from influence within the Republican Party but were not appointed to the jobs. They were elected.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Sabena332
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:26 am

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
George W. Bush is President.
His brother Jeb is Governor of Florida.
His father has been President.
3 men from the same family.

Err.... all of them got voted into their position, it is not like Daddy Bush gave the President position to one of his sons and the Gov. position to the other.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
Arniepie
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:38 am

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
George W. Bush is President.
His brother Jeb is Governor of Florida.
His father has been President.
3 men from the same family.

so,Bo


How is the king of Sweden doing these days?
[edit post]
 
aloges
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:42 am

To provide a worthwhile reply, I think it's much less dramatic as it may seem to some. In case Jeb Bush is nominated next time, then maybe yes, we can start worrying - but this time around, I look at it as Bush sr. helping Bush jr. out as much as he could. All parents do that, and if the result is that Bush jr. gets nominated and elected, then so be it.

However, I don't think Bush sr. did anyone a favour with that!  Silly
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:22 am

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):

For me is USA a bad example of democracy so pls do not
export your view on this subject...

Maybe you misunderstand the structure of the U.S. government, but none of the examples you mentioned have any shared powers. All the people you mentioned were elected to seperate offices, at seperate times, and representing seperate regions/districts on different platforms. What's the beef?

The U.S. isn't like ancient Athens who elected Pericles to 31 terms of office
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
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IHadAPheo
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:55 am

Sorry but I have to add a thought or two on this


While Jeb Bush may be the Governor of Florida, he was elected by the citizens of Florida and only Florida. Anyone who is not a citizen of Florida can not vote in Florida elections. As an example I live in New York and my Governor is that tall guy George Pataki.

I do believe that the Bush clan has some advantages that their name and wealth provide they still were elected by the people. The elections the George Jr won were very close so it is not like he has a huge mandate of the people, he won the election and that is that.

IHAP (still trying to figure out where my point on this topic went, darn it was so clear in my head and then this was the result)
Pray hard but pray with care For the tears that you are crying now Are just your answered prayers
 
mdsh00
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:36 am

What about India? Nehru, Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi (all were directly related and PM of India)

Sorry Frederik. Political dynasties exist many places outside of the US.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:27 am

Bofredrik it's evident to see you know nothing of the way this US democracy works, and your history is failing as well.

All of the Bush family members you mention have been elected.

I don't see how Clinton fits into any of your scenarios.

You seem to have neglected the Roosevelt family, I'm sure that was unintentional, they had a Father and Son team in the White House.

Perhaps further study on this subject is required on your part. . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:34 am

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
(I am also thinking of the Kennedy Family... and Clinton.)

Clinton? He had two terms, which is the maximum allowed. How is he part of this issue?

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
Is that what you should expect in a real democracy?

Absolutely. If America chooses to vote the Bushs into office, they have every right to do so. Likewise, if America no longer wants the Bushs in power, then they have every right to vote them out of office. Bush-1 was voted out in 1992, and Clinton was voted in. America approved of Clinton more than his opponent (Dole) in 1996, and was re-elected for a second, and final, term. Clinton's persidential term ran out in 2000, and Bush-2 won the electon over his opponent (Gore). American approved of Bush-2 more than his opponent (Kerry) in 2004, and was re-elected for a second, and final, term.

If Jeb is elected president (although he has not expressed interest in running at this point), it just shows that America approves of the Bush family. I can see how from outside, this may look like some sort of "dynasty" forming:

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
I am thinking of North Korea as ONE example...

But if you know how the American electoral process operates, you'll know that we can just as easily vote the Bushs out of office as fast as we voted them in...
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
N5176Y
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:37 am

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 13):
Clinton? He had two terms, which is the maximum allowed. How is he part of this issue?

Bill Clinton & Hillary Clinton
 
UAL747
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:39 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 12):
As long as you promise to stop exporting square vehicles we will stop exporting our brand of democracy to your country.

LOL, Volvos are becoming more rounded. I guess our influence spans abroad in design as well. However, hopefully Volvo was inspired by their European neighbors and not us when it comes to car design!

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:41 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
You seem to have neglected the Roosevelt family, I'm sure that was unintentional, they had a Father and Son team in the White House.

They were not father and son, they were fifth cousins! Believe it or not...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/fr32.html:

"Following the example of his fifth cousin, President Theodore Roosevelt, whom he greatly admired, Franklin D. Roosevelt entered public service through politics..."
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:42 am

Quoting N5176Y (Reply 14):
Bill Clinton & Hillary Clinton

Far from a dynasty...more like a political team.
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
11Bravo
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:43 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
You seem to have neglected the Roosevelt family, I'm sure that was unintentional, they had a Father and Son team in the White House.

Are you talking about TR and FDR? They were cousins several times removed.

John Adams and John Quincy Adams were the only other father and son presidents other than Bush and Son.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
L.1011
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:59 am

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
Is that what you should expect in a real democracy?

Yes, because in a real democracy you can vote for whoever you want.

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
I am thinking of North Korea as ONE example...

I am thinking of most countries on Earth as other examples, including India and many of the constitutional monarchies of the world, including Britain and Sweden.

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
For me is USA a bad example of democracy so pls do not
export your view on this subject...

How is the US a bad example of democracy? Because you hate us for no reason? Because we are a presidential instead of parlimentary system and you somehow have a problem with that?
 
L-188
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:06 pm

It would be wrong to say that there wouldn't be family dynasties in US, after all the traits that might make somebody attactive in public office.

It is legitimate to claim that the Bush Family is a Dynasty, but I would argue that they are not as much of a Dynasty as the Kennedy's, or the Daileys in Chicago.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:23 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 18):
Are you talking about TR and FDR? They were cousins several times removed.

Yeah, my bad, point still made however . . . . the subject and discussion in the thread starter is still hogwash.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
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solnabo
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:37 pm

Bo Fredrik:

If you´re white, rich and dodgy/corrupt you can go all the way to the White House w a grin.

*My 0,02 öre*

Micke//SE  Wink
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
SFOMEX
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:01 pm

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 17):
Quoting N5176Y (Reply 14):
Bill Clinton & Hillary Clinton

Far from a dynasty...more like a political team.

I'd say more like partners in crime, but that's just me.  spin 
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
SK A340
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:16 pm

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
For me is USA a bad example of democracy so pls do not
export your view on this subject...

And what about our own Social Democrats here in Sweden?
The latest news is that Göran Persson's (the prime minister) daughter has a prominent part of SSU (the youth league of the government party = the Socialdemocrats).

Bush, and any other president, will only be in the White house for max. eight years, eventhough their party is reelected. How many years has Persson been prime minister? (answer: 10 years).

If (though most unlikely) the Socialdemocrats would loose an election, the extremely strong labor unions will still have their power and they are very very very close to the Socialdemocrats.

So, who has the best democracy, Sweden or the US?

/Micke

[Edited 2005-03-21 09:17:49]
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:04 am

This guy reminds me of that guy from Russia... Oh yeah... Putin... Who thought Bush fired Dan Rather...

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!
 
Bofredrik
Topic Author
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:24 am

He is doing fine but i am against the whole system with King & Queen.

Quoting Arniepie (Reply 6):
 
Bofredrik
Topic Author
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:28 am

You can all say that each of the Bush men was elected by its own voters but anyway, 3 men from the same family? It is strange to understand...  confused 
 
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alberchico
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:31 am

I for one am proud to have him as our president .He has done his best under the circumstances. After 9/11 the war in Iraq was inevitable. You want to see a real tyrannic un-democratic regime where free speech and human rights are trampled upon , go to the Middle East  Angry  Angry
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
lowrider
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:58 am

Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 26):
You can all say that each of the Bush men was elected by its own voters but anyway, 3 men from the same family? It is strange to understand

Not really. It is common for trades or occupations to carry from one generation to the next. Doctors, carpenters, electricians, painters, farmers, and pilots to name a few I have encountered. Should politicians be an exception?
Proud OOTSK member
 
NWAFA
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:00 am

It makes me sick that we have this jack(*&^% as our president. I am so embarrassed that he is our president. No wonder the world hates us so much, its because of him!
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L.1011
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:14 am

Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 26):
You can all say that each of the Bush men was elected by its own voters but anyway, 3 men from the same family? It is strange to understand...

Remember, Prescott Bush (Dubya's grandfather) was a Senator from Connecticut. George HW Bush (41) was a Congressman (was he a Senator?) from Texas, before becoming Vice President under Ronald Reagan (from California) and President after that. Jeb Bush is the Governor of Florida. George Dubya Bush was the Governor of Texas before becoming POTUS. So, members of the Bush family were elected by Connecticut (which voted against the elder George once and the younger twice), a district in Texas, the state of Texas, and the state of Florida. The point is, when you look at the geography-based system of American politics, as opposed to the generally proportional parlimentary systems, not to mention the greater importance of states in American politics, it is clear the Bush family isn't particularly special.
 
SPREE34
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:37 am

Democracy?? For the record, the US is not a Democracy. The US is a Representative Republic. Those of you in the states would have learned this by 7th grade. It's a pretty good system.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
L.1011
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:28 am

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 31):
Democracy?? For the record, the US is not a Democracy.

Sure we are.

de·moc·ra·cy n. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.

The American Heritage Dictionary.
 
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STT757
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:43 am

You have to look at it in a different light, two Sons following in their father's footsteps. Nothing bizzare about that, name recognition amongst voters is probably the only advantage they might have enjoyed.

Also keep in mind that the Bush family has other siblings who want nothing to do with Politics.
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flyingbronco05
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:21 pm

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 5):
Err.... all of them got voted into their position, it is not like Daddy Bush gave the President position to one of his sons and the Gov. position to the other.

Yes, but Jeb had SOMETHING to do with George W getting "elected" in 2001 by "WINNING" Florida.  box 
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Boeing7E7
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:44 pm

It makes me sick that we have this jack(*&^% as our president. I am so embarrassed that he is our president. No wonder the world hates us so much, its because of him!

That would be your own personal problem. You're political opposition had to put up with 8 years of Clinton BS. Enjoy your turn.

Republic

SYLLABICATION: re·pub·lic
PRONUNCIATION: r-pblk
NOUN: 1a. A political order whose head of state is not a monarch and in modern times is usually a president. b. A nation that has such a political order. 2a. A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them. b. A nation that has such a political order. 3. often Republic A specific republican government of a nation: the Fourth Republic of France. 4. An autonomous or partially autonomous political and territorial unit belonging to a sovereign federation. 5. A group of people working as equals in the same sphere or field: the republic of letters.
ETYMOLOGY: French république, from Old French, from Latin rspblica : rs, thing; see r- in Appendix I + pblica, feminine of pblicus, of the people; see public.

Democracy

SYLLABICATION: de·moc·ra·cy
PRONUNCIATION: d-mkr-s
NOUN: Inflected forms: pl. de·moc·ra·cies
1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives. 2. A political or social unit that has such a government. 3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power. 4. Majority rule. 5. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.
ETYMOLOGY: French démocratie, from Late Latin dmocratia, from Greek dmokrati : dmos, people; see d- in Appendix I + -krati, -cracy.

An interesting tidbit for all of you Modern Democrats....

Social Democracy

NOUN: A political theory advocating the use of democratic means to achieve a gradual transition from capitalism to socialism.
OTHER FORMS: social democrat —NOUN
social democratic —ADJECTIVE

Yes, but Jeb had SOMETHING to do with George W getting "elected" in 2001 by "WINNING" Florida.

The truth must drive you nuts.

[Edited 2005-03-22 04:53:23]
 
CaptOveur
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:55 pm

You also keep in mind how few people actually WANT the job of President of the US. I mean really want it. It is probably the worst job anyone could ever want. It is a 24/7/365 job. If you take a dump someone the next day on an internet message board is saying you should have wiped back to front instead of front to back. In some instances someone will try to take a shot at you.

Just really think hard about what goes with the job before you assume thousands of rational people are just dying to have it.

BTW. I voted for Bush BECAUSE it would make the world and especially the UN hate us. That was one of his best qualities in my mind
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: It Is Something Strange With Bush And USA...

Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:12 pm

best thing about bush is he signed into law in 99 in texass while he was the gov that makes it where the hospitals have the final decision as to what is done with the patients that are on-any-life support...not the families,but they do have some small input as to what their wishes are...kinda throws cow pie into the fracas now happening in florida
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