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L410Turbolet
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RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:51 pm

Quoting Russophile (Reply 20):
* Niyazov of Turkmenistan
* Musharraf of Pakistan
* Fahd of Saudi Arabia
* Mubarak of Egypt
* Saakashvili of Georgia
* Jabir of Kuwait
* Mohammed of Morocco
* Voronin of Moldova
* Karimov of Uzbekistan
* Qaboos of Oman

* add that KGB fella from Kremlin

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 49):
But look at his country...it has something which even the US lacks.... free health care. And all those people who think communism is that evil.... weel at least it guarantess free health and education.

Now you sound like a communist propaganda.

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 49):
Cubans have, if not mistaken amongst the highest life expectancies of the Americas.

That's because they want to be around when that bastard Catro goes to hell.
 
TACAA320
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RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:55 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 49):
The health system is so good that Cubans have, if not mistaken amongst the highest life expectancies of the Americas.

That's pure bullsh**t. You can't even get medicines there.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
rootsair
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RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:37 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 51):

That's pure bullsh**t. You can't even get medicines there.

Why because of the embargo !!! So stop saying its bullshit !

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 50):
Now you sound like a communist propaganda.

You coming from an ex communist country should know the diff btw a communist and a socialist. I'm socialist not communist
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
GDB
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RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:45 am

As pointed out before, the US attitude to Cuba and Fidel, would have a lot more weight had the US not for decades propped up or installed or aided some truly disgusting regimes in that region, most far worse than Castro.
And the 'Cold War' argument is a bit of a cop out, as this was going on well before the late 1940's.

No, as pointed out, if Cuba suited US economic interests, (which often merely meant some CEO had lobby influence), you'd hardly hear a peep out of the US about oppression in Cuba.

And it surely is oppressive there, nonetheless, though very poor, your life expectancy, pre and post birth, is a damn sight higher in Cuba than in many nations in the region that were chummy with the US.
The ones where a tiny elite owned everything, the other 98% lived in abject poverty with no way out of it, at least legally, as these 'free enterprise' states were just vast plantations for the ruling elite.
Which suited the US as it provided huge profits for conglomerates, most notorious was the United Fruit Company.

Had the USSR not existed, it is doubtful the situation in this region would have been much different for the last 50 years.
Interesting to note that Cuba was once a US colony.
 
AJBUS300
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RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:32 am

Smart guy and gotta give him credit for keeping his country together like he has. I don't agree with everything he does. What I find interesting is everyone here in the US (Miami of course..hehe) say how bad things are in Cuba yet you don't hear that from people in Cuba. Who knows and who cares.
Live each day as if it was your last day on God's beautiful green earth
 
SlamClick
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RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:41 am

There are many fine tailors in Latin America.
Most of them sell civilian suits.
- If he'd like the names of a couple . . .

Here are some news flashes Fidel:
  • You are not twenty five years old.

  • You are not in the hills with Raul and Che fighting to liberate your people.

  • Your people are jumping into the ocean with anything that will float hoping to paddle their way across to the great satan to the north.

  • Batista is a long time dead. He is not the problem. YOU are the problem.

  • Some young Fidel or Che would be well justified in overthrowing you, but you cling to your power with firing squads just like Batista did.

  • The beard! Pretty ratty looking señor. (Sorry that was a cheap shot.)


  • All that said, I've long considered US policy toward Cuba childish and stupid. It would be of far greater value to see communism fall for the reason that it doesn't work, than for reasons of economic and political pressures we've applied. A nation whose leaders truly believe in capitalism and democracy would do that.

    Besides after all these years of overflights, I've always wanted to drop in there. Greives me to see European widebodies loaded with tourists at Varadero and we can't serve it from the US.
    Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
     
    AMSMAN
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:53 am

    sound bloke...
    Aer Lingus, Proud to be Irish.
     
    Russophile
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:01 pm

    Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 51):
    That's pure bullsh**t. You can't even get medicines there.

    Sorry, but this is pure bullshit. The only medicines that Cuba may have trouble getting is those made in the US. HOWEVER, Cuba is one of the leading medical biotechnology countries in the world, with several contracts to supply even the US with ground breaking drugs being signed.

    Quoting GDB (Reply 53):
    No, as pointed out, if Cuba suited US economic interests, (which often merely meant some CEO had lobby influence), you'd hardly hear a peep out of the US about oppression in Cuba.

    You mean like with Niyazov in Turkmenistan. The guy is an outright dictator. But yet, the US is in bed with him and supports his regime. Why? Oil/gas. The country has massive reserves which the US wants to exploit, with only recently brokering a deal to transport gas from Turkmenistan to the US via pipelines in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

    Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 50):
    * add that KGB fella from Kremlin

    Why? Putin is not a dictator, nor is his 'regime' being propped up only by the tacit support of the US. So what's your point?  Yeah sure
     
    TACAA320
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:50 pm

    Quoting RootsAir (Reply 52):
    Why because of the embargo !!! So stop saying its bullshit !

    It's pure bulls**t like FC. The Cuban Medicine is a fiasco.

    Quoting Russophile (Reply 57):
    Cuba is one of the leading medical biotechnology countries in the world, with several contracts to supply even the US with ground breaking drugs being signed.

    Several contracts like...?

    [Edited 2005-04-04 07:54:26]

    [Edited 2005-04-04 08:10:01]
    'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
     
    L410Turbolet
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:18 pm

    Quoting AJBUS300 (Reply 54):
    What I find interesting is everyone here in the US (Miami of course..hehe) say how bad things are in Cuba yet you don't hear that from people in Cuba. Who knows and who cares.

    You only see these staged pro-Castro ralies... Hmmm why would that be, Sherlock??? Is it maybe because they have a censorship in the so called "Island of Freedom" and any criticism of Fidel might result in your ass being thrown into jail?

    Quoting SlamClick (Reply 55):
    All that said, I've long considered US policy toward Cuba childish and stupid. It would be of far greater value to see communism fall for the reason that it doesn't work, than for reasons of economic and political pressures we've applied.

    The policy really is shortsighted. Commies always need a picture of the enemy as an excuse for the system not working and to cover up their own failures and incompetence. The embargo just makes it soo easy for Fidel not to be held responsible by his own people for the state of Cuban economy. All he needs to do (and has been doing since 1959) is point finger at the US and blame everything from shortage of electricity to today's bad weather on the embargo.
    Trading with Cuba does not mean they would have the financial means to do so and the economy wouldn't collapse under its own rottenness.
     
    Russophile
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:25 pm

    Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 58):
    It's pure bulls**t like FC. The Cuban Medicine is a fiasco.

    Partly, and ask WHY? The US embargo of Cuba stops the Cubans from receiving medicines which the rest of the world is able to obtain. Shit, even Saddam received US drugs during the "UN" sanctions.

    Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 58):
    Several contracts like...?

    There have been several contracts signed in recent years, which will see Cuba supply drugs to the US via local partners -- mainly from the Cuba biomedical programs which they are expanding (and gaining a reputation for). However, the US government is refusing to allow the US partners to pay in cash, but rather are insisting that payments be made in medical supplies and/or food.
     
    Russophile
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:51 pm

    Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 59):
    You only see these staged pro-Castro ralies... Hmmm why would that be, Sherlock??? Is it maybe because they have a censorship in the so called "Island of Freedom" and any criticism of Fidel might result in your ass being thrown into jail?

    Not entirely true

    http://tinyurl.com/3qz2u

    There have been other anti-government protests also in recent years.
     
    atmx2000
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:19 pm

    Quoting Russophile (Reply 60):
    The US embargo of Cuba stops the Cubans from receiving medicines which the rest of the world is able to obtain.

    Cuba can buy US medical supplies as long as they are used for treatment of Cubans and not diverted for other purposes.
    ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
     
    L410Turbolet
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:39 pm

    Russo,
    I was responding to AJBUS' implication about Cubans being actually happy with Fidel because you don't hear them complain. Those who signed the Varela petition obviously aren't too excited about the old crook and jailing of those 75 (taking advantage of media attention being in Iraq back then) just proves my words. The fact that they let these women march is nothing but indication of the whole matter becoming hot potatoe for Castro and they just did not want more negative media coverage especially at times when certain individuals from Brussels are so busy climbing up Fidel's ass.

    EU's appeasement to Fidel is just shameful:

    Also Friday, the European Union's development commissioner, Louis Michel, discussed human rights issues with Castro during a visit to the island.

    He later stressed that the delicate nature of EU-Cuban relations made it crucial for European nations, the Cuban government and opposition leaders to avoid "useless provocations."
    http://tinyurl.com/3qz2u

    words of a true devil's advocate indeed
     
    TedTAce
    Posts: 9098
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:55 am

    After Castro is gone....

    I Dream of buying the farm my father in law had down there, and having a nice place to just relax.
    This space intentionally left blank
     
    Superfly
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:21 am

    I asked this question before in reply #37 but no one has stepped up to the plate to try to answer it.
    I'll try again.
    Can someone explain why I can get a non-stop flight from my hometown airport (SFO) to Vietnam and China but not Cuba?
    We've lost a hell of a lot more service men & women in Vietnam and China is a much bigger threat than Cuba if they chose to pick a bone with us.




    Is this too difficult to answer?
    Bring back the Concorde
     
    MaverickM11
    Posts: 18715
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:35 am

    I don't take responsibility at all
     
    MD11Engineer
    Posts: 13899
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:43 am

    Quoting TedTAce (Reply 64):
    After Castro is gone....

    After German reunification, the last thing most East germans wanted was to have the old aristocrat landowners from prewar days come back and claim the land (huge areas including many villages). They received some compensation from the federal government (when they were disowned under the East German government), but nothing if the disowning was done by the Soviets. There was legislation made up to prevent them from driving people off the land, who´ve been living there for the last 60 years. Under the same point of view I can forget to claim the land once owned by my family in former East Prussia (Today the Russian exclave Kalinigrad). Any returning of land and factories and kicking out people who´ve been living there for 60+ years will cause a rebellion.

    Expect the same to happen in Cuba. No matter what the locals think about Castro, they don´t want to have the old landowners and plantation owners, who left the country when Batista was toppled, back.

    Jan
    Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
     
    Superfly
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:16 am

    Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 67):
    No matter what the locals think about Castro, they don´t want to have the old landowners and plantation owners, who left the country when Batista was toppled, back.

    Damn right!
    Even the Cubans I spoke to in Cuba that did not like Castro certainly don't want a return to the days of Bautista.


    No how come no one has answered or even attempted to answer my question?  Confused
    Bring back the Concorde
     
    MaverickM11
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:29 am

    "Can someone explain why I can get a non-stop flight from my hometown airport (SFO) to Vietnam and China but not Cuba?"

    Well for one, you can't get a nonstop flight to Vietnam Wink.
    I don't take responsibility at all
     
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    yyz717
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:45 am

    What we have to remember about Cuba is that until 1959 it was literally the whorehouse of the USA. Hence, a popular revolution by Castro (or anyone) was going to be popular because it enabled the Cubans to thumb their nose at the US, the mafia, the large corporations and the corruption that ran Cuba. Cubans did not WANT to become Communist though. Castro though was very easily pushed into the Soviet orbit by US intransigence early in his tenure.

    Superfly is right. The US is befriending now many nations far worse than Cuba. The embargo is not working. The US should open the floodgates and let capitalism transform Cuba. Until the US does, businesses here in Canada, Mexico and the EU are more than happy to make money in Cuba in the US absense.

    Perhaps if the US was not governed by a 2-party dictatorship, there would be some policy movement and honest debate about Cuba.
    I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
     
    TACAA320
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:10 pm

    Quoting Russophile (Reply 60):
    Partly, and ask WHY? The US embargo of Cuba stops the Cubans from receiving medicines which the rest of the world is able to obtain. Shit, even Saddam received US drugs during the "UN" sanctions.

    If the problem is the embargo, and the embargo is consequence of Fidel's tyranny, ergo: No Castro... No problem. Get rid of him.
    'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
     
    MD11Engineer
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:55 pm

    Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 71):
    If the problem is the embargo, and the embargo is consequence of Fidel's tyranny, ergo: No Castro... No problem. Get rid of him.

    The problem is that the American embargo is not connected to Castro as a person, but to property rights of American companies, which got disowned by Castro during a land reform in the early 1960s. The most notable company is the United Fruit Company, which still exists today under the brand name Chiquita Bananas.
    Under the same reasoning foreign companies get preosecuted by the US, if they deal with a Cuban company using assets formerly owned by American companies.
    I assume that the embargo will continue to exists and be used as a means of pressuring successor governments (even democratically eleceted ones) until the American companies, which lost their land, will get their property back. And concerning the land I don´t mean a few acres, but total economical and political control over whole provinces.

    Jan
    Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
     
    TACAA320
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:35 pm

    Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 72):
    the American embargo is not connected to Castro as a person, but to property rights of American companies, which got disowned by Castro during a land reform in the early 1960s.

    Ok, it's not connected to Castro as a person. But if he, and his Government disowned foreign properties and interest [among many other thing] during the 60's and the years to come, he [on behalf all Cubans] must admit the consequences of his acts.
    'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
     
    MD11Engineer
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:15 am

    So the demand will be reinstallment of the Batista´s cronies and United Fruit company? I don´t see this coming!
    If Fidel Castro and his party would not have done the land reform and not disowned the American planters, but acted like Batista, he probably would have been the best friend of the US.

    Jan

    [Edited 2005-04-05 17:17:14]
    Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
     
    MaverickM11
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:52 am

    "he probably would have been the best friend of the US"

    And Cuba would be much better off now.
    I don't take responsibility at all
     
    Superfly
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:23 am

    Castro praised Pope John Paul II.

    Here is the story.


    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...050405/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cuba_pope




    Bring back the Concorde
     
    csavel
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    RE: What Do You Think Of Fidel Castro?

    Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:58 am

    Quoting DL021 (Reply 42):



    GENERAL JORGE RAFAEL VIDELA...Ok this guy ran the Dirty War and then made himself Generalissimo, and there is not too much redeeming about him. Once again, it was a matter of the devil we knew and could exert some control over rather than one we could not and would spread the infection.

    But the devil we know becomes our devil and when they are ousted, as they inevitably are, we get blamed for the work of the devil

    Quoting DL021 (Reply 42):

    ALFREDO STROESSNER He was not too bad as dictators go. I don't think he is responsible for any mass murders and he allowed the liberalisation of politics in his country to the point the military overthrew him and that actually opened up the democratization. He was helped into Brasil.

    Actually I just read a book about Paraguay under Stroessner and he was pretty bad, and also pro Nazi and pro hiding war criminals to boot

    Quoting DL021 (Reply 42):

    GENERAL AUGUSTO PINOCHET...We will always disagree about the impact that Allende would have had, but you have to admit that he was leaning seriously toward Marxist socialism and we were concerned he would allow the Soviets access to SA.

    So what? Chile had a democratic tradition, unlike other South American countries, and Allende was ready because he had to, make a deal with the right. He couldn't rule other than in a coalition government. You may not like Communism, but if the voters elected it so be it, so long as they still have democracy to elect something else when Communism failed

    Quoting DL021 (Reply 42):

    Europe & the Middle East:
    MOHAMMAD REZA PAHLEVI...Tell me the better answer for that country at the time? I think he was a scumbag, but would the alternative been any better? He turned out to be a serious ostrich in the end.

    A better answer would have been Mossadagh. A prime reason for the Islamic Revolution is that we installed this scumbag as our puppet and the Iranians haven't forgot it. Who knows what would have happened had we not intervened because we didn't get the democratic government we didn't like. A prime example of blowback. We owe Iran an apology over that one, yeah really we do.

    Quoting DL021 (Reply 42):

    GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS.. I'm not a fan...but would you rather Greece have gone communist? He was a Nazi during the war, as were many anti-communists in occupied territory, not that I excuse their actions. I wish we had not found it necessary to deal with him.

    See above comments.

    Quoting DL021 (Reply 42):

    IAN SMITH...I'm not a supporter of apartheid, nor of any two tier class system enforced by the government, but Rhodesia was a nice place before it went to Hell. They cannot even feed themselves now. THey need to accept their white citizens as natives instead of stealing their land. They have been there longer than we've been in most of the US, and we ain't giving back our property to the CHerokees or Creeks.

    Not true America was settled by white people before Zimbabwe was settled by whites. There were no white settlers in Rhodesia before the mid 1800's if I recall. Rhodesia is a nice place if you were white and priviledged it sucked if you were black. Of course it sucks now for the black inhabitants, and I do agree that the whites who decided to stay and make it their country deserve better. And this is where the left goes wrong. THey need to criticize Mugabe the same way they would criticize a right-wing pro American kleptocratic dictator
    I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.

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