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Yu138086
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Passports Needed For USA Entry

Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:17 am

This news broke yesterday but for those who do not already know...

By Jan. 1, 2008, Canadians will no longer be able to enter the United States using their driver's license, birth certificate or citizenship card. New rules will require travelers to produce a passport instead. The departments of state and homeland security in the U.S. announced the new measure as part of its Western Hemisphere Security Initiative. Under the new rules, Canadians will need to show a passport or other "secure document" if trips to the Caribbean, Bermuda, Central or South America by air or sea include a U.S. stopover. The rules also apply to all citizens of the U.S.A, Bermuda and Mexico.

*As of Dec. 31, 2005: All travelers must show their passport when stopping over in the U.S. during air and sea travel to or from the Caribbean, Bermuda, Central and South America.
*As of Dec. 31, 2006: The rules take effect for all air and sea travel to or from Mexico and Canada.
*As of Dec. 31, 2007: The rule applies to all remaining travel, including land crossings.

Canada who has always worked on the basis of reciprocity with the USA, will look to require the same from USA citizens.

What the United States Department of Homeland Security is doing is actually imposing a restriction on US CITIZENS. Obviously, Canadians could not expect to be exempt from a law that the U.S. government was in fact applying in relation to their own people. In other words, The USA is now requiring their own citizens to have a valid USA Passport when entering their own country, hence the requirement for Canada.

Canadians will still be exempt from an American program that requires foreign visitors to be fingerprinted upon entry.

Any thoughts/ comments are welcome.

Cheers.
 
N766UA
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:20 am

Just a way for the government to get more money... I think it has very little to do with any kind of security.
 
jcs17
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:48 pm

I've been a car crossing the border into the States with friends who are only carrying DLs and birth certificates, and they always get bitched at for not having a passport. I don't think it's too bad of an idea. These days it's way too easy to get a false drivers license and birth certificate. Passports are a little harder to forge.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
Newark777
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:51 pm

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 2):
I've been a car crossing the border

I've been in a car crossing the border, but have never actually been the car.  Wink

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
lowrider
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:54 pm

I don't think this is really a big deal. Many countries require passports for entry or re-entry. The US is merely doing what others are doing. For millions of people, passport usage is a common occurance. So long as the law is applied consistantly, I have no problem with it. For those who don't think it will increase security, consider this. Inspectors will have few types of ID's and documents to inspect, making it easier to spot fakes. Yes, it does cost a little money to get a US passport, but over the lifespan of the document, it is a relatively minor cost. If your employer requires it, see if you can get them to split the cost.
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redngold
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:54 pm

Sucks... Now I have to renew my passport... Which I've been meaning to do for about three years, but it wasn't really necessary until this stupid idea.

 grumpy  redngold
Up, up and away!
 
LHMark
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:36 pm

There goes the world's longest open border. For no reason.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
Mir
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:02 pm

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 3):
I've been in a car crossing the border, but have never actually been the car.

Heck, if George W. Bush can be a small business growth, anything is possible...  Smile

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Chugach
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:13 pm

I've always used my passport anyway between the US-Canada so it won't be a huge change for me. I can see how others might be annoyed though.
 
Biggles
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:29 pm

Not a big deal.A Canadian passport costs $85 , and is only valid for 5 years. A nice little money grab for the government .

I'm guessing if you're entering the U.S. from the southern border,you can still just run across with no I.D. at all ??

Hola Gringo !
 
LH423
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:30 pm

I think in the grand scheme of things, it won't make a huge deal to transborder traffic. Although, this rule effectively means that Canada doesn't have to create a similar, reciprocal rule for Americans as the US gov't's requirement that US citizens have passports in order to re-enter the US will mean that they'll need their passport to leave as well. Why hand over a birth certificate when you just slapped down however many dollars a passport is these days?

I think Canada should not create this rule and come out smelling like roses.

I can understand the reasoning but I'm not sold that it's necessary.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
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yyz717
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:14 pm

Not a big deal.

I would actually like to the see the Cdn government completely harmonize all immigration and entry requirements to match the US. Then, we can eliminate the US-Canada border completely from a customs standpoint. Similar to the EU.

Canadians and Americans are the same people, in my mind. We should have complete freedom of movement back and forth. In the meantime, a passport is no big deal.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
rwsea
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:43 pm

How long before we need passports to cross state lines, in the name of security?

How long before all the bridges/tunnels leading into manhattan have border checks? We'd all be safer then right?
 
UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:21 pm

btw what is a machine-readable passport ???
read = will my 2000-issued French one be OK for my US trip next month ?

UTA  checkeredflag 
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Mir
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:22 pm

Being a dual citizen, I have both US and French passports, and I can tell you this:

My US passport (2002 issue) has a kind of holographic film over the first page (where the picture is). I'm not sure whether this is to prevent counterfeiting, or if this is what makes it machine-readable. When I enter the country, the border agent swipes the first page through a machine, so I'm pretty sure that it has something to do with it.

My French passport (2003 issue) doesn't have anything like that in it. I don't see anything that could be machine-readable at all, actually.

So I'd definately check with the consulate or something before heading over. Because if you show up in the US with an incorrect passport it will ruin your day (and most likely your week).

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
57AZ
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:23 pm

Two things concerning US Passports. One is that the fees have gone up. Second is that if you marry and want your name changed, you will have to apply for a new passport if your current one is more than a year old. There are still some changes being made that have not been announced yet as the agency is still working on them.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:50 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
My French passport (2003 issue) doesn't have anything like that in it. I don't see anything that could be machine-readable at all, actually.

There are small holes that run on the width of the passporth on the bottom of the pages.

Could this be it ?
*not wishing a trip to that Rhaa of consulate which is always on holidays*

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Mir
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:52 am

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Reply 16):
There are small holes that run on the width of the passporth on the bottom of the pages.

Could this be it ?

Yeah, could be. According to the State Department's website, you have to either have a machine readable passport or a valid visa. (http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html). But they have an example of the machine readable part, and I don't think those number holes are the same.

They also say that the border people have the ability to grant people one exemption, but this is at their discretion.

I'd still try to check with the consulate if you don't have a visa. However inconvenient it is, it'll be less inconvenient than dealing with the INS if they suspect that you're trying to enter the country illegally.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Sabena332
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:09 am

Quoting UTA_flyinghigh (Reply 13):
btw what is a machine-readable passport ???
read = will my 2000-issued French one be OK for my US trip next month ?

You should make absolutely sure that you have the correct documents to enter the USA, otherwise you will get a bunch of problems. They will deny you the entry, arrest you and deport you back to Ireland (or Elbonia).

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
TGV
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:24 pm

UTA_flyinghigh

Here is a link you may find useful:
http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/voyage...rangers/avis/conseils/delphine.htm

I am afraid your passport with holes is the old one !

And another link, showing that, since october 2004, you need a new passport !

http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/etrangers/vivre/passeport/index.html
I will never fly again 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:29 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
My US passport (2002 issue) has a kind of holographic film over the first page (where the picture is). I'm not sure whether this is to prevent counterfeiting, or if this is what makes it machine-readable. When I enter the country, the border agent swipes the first page through a machine, so I'm pretty sure that it has something to do with it.

My French passport (2003 issue) doesn't have anything like that in it. I don't see anything that could be machine-readable at all, actually.

No. The machine-readable bit is the strip of characters at the bottom of the page with lots of '>>>' in it. All EU passports have had it for some time. Even my SA passport has it.

The holographic film over the picture page is to prevent tampering and forgery.
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UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:35 pm

Quoting TGV (Reply 19):
UTA_flyinghigh

Here is a link you may find useful:
http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/voyage...rangers/avis/conseils/delphine.htm

I am afraid your passport with holes is the old one !

And another link, showing that, since october 2004, you need a new passport !

http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/etrang....html

Thank you for the info TGV.

Now let me just say Rhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

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ryangooner
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:11 am

ooh to ooh to be ooh to be a gooner!
 
UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:57 am

Many thanks for the link Ryan. It looks I might get a chance if I can't get a new passport in time.

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ltbewr
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:03 am

It is regetable that easy access between Canada and the USA - even on the ground - is comming to an end. This could seriously hurt tourism, trade and employment.
One reason I would suggest for the requirement/change is that the USA goverment, unlike almost all EU and other governments, does not issue national ID cards. In the USA, our state driver licenses or non-drivers state issued ID picture cards are the closest we have to National ID cards. Such cards are already required to fly domestically in the USA. Our government is trying to pass laws, and some states like New Jersey already have, on strict proof of citzenship or legal residency rules to prevent illegalls from obtaining licenses or state ID's with phony documents.
While some Passports have some machine readable strips or codes as to some identity info, I believe in future years, it will become a magnetic strip or optical coded symbol (like a fancy bar code) to contain the digitalized picture and thumbprint to prevent forgary and inproper use.
 
Banco
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:11 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 24):
In the USA, our state driver licenses or non-drivers state issued ID picture cards are the closest we have to National ID cards.

If you like a certain irony, the UK (as I'm sure you know) also has no national ID card, nor do we have proper photographic driving licences. So the nearest we have to one is.......a passport!  Wink
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:19 am

US Senator Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) is beginning the steps to counter some of this bull. There are a few locations between Alaska and Canada where crossing happen daily.

In one case a railroad President live sin Whitehorse, Yukon and the railroad Headquarters (and his office) are in Skagway, Alaska. How utterly ridiculous is it for him to show a passport to commute to work. Not to mention the fifteen or twenty members of the train crews that do the same thing each day.

Down in extreme southern Alaska, little town there called Hyder has a Canadian Area Code. They connect to the rest of the world through Canada. Again, utterly ridiculous for the resident of Hyder to need a passport to go the grocery store in Canada, twenty feet away.
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KaiGywer
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:22 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 20):
No. The machine-readable bit is the strip of characters at the bottom of the page with lots of '>>>' in it. All EU passports have had it for some time. Even my SA passport has it.

Yes and no. Yes on the explanation of the machine readable part. No, on the part of EU passports. It was only after the US started to require them that they were made like that. My 2002 passport is still the hand written style (Norway)

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 24):
While some Passports have some machine readable strips or codes as to some identity info, I believe in future years, it will become a magnetic strip or optical coded symbol (like a fancy bar code) to contain the digitalized picture and thumbprint to prevent forgary and inproper use.

I believe it's some sort of electronic chip. My mother just got a new passport with the machine readable characters, as well as an in-op chip, they just put in there for future use.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:30 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 11):
I would actually like to the see the Cdn government completely harmonize all immigration and entry requirements to match the US. Then, we can eliminate the US-Canada border completely from a customs standpoint. Similar to the EU.

As far as needing a passport, it actually doesn't have anything to do with the EU, but rather Schengen. As an example: the UK is a member of EU, but not Schengen, so you need a passport to enter. Norway is not a member of the EU, but IS a member of Schengen, so you do not need a passport to enter (unless you come from a non-Schengen country, like the UK or anywhere outside Europe)
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avek00
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:37 am

While eliminating customs restrictions between the USA and Canada could one day work, eliminating immigration controls is a nonstarter - Canada's immigration policies are simply too lenient to allow for an unregulated border.
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LH423
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:14 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 20):
All EU passports have had it for some time.

Not necessarily. At least until recently most British, French, Irish, and Portuguese passorts issued at foreign offices (i.e. consulates or embassies) were not made with the new designs. Only since the US instituted these rules has the UK fast-tracked the implementation of MR passports to all foreign offices. Not sure about the French, though.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 26):
There are a few locations between Alaska and Canada where crossing happen daily.

Or sometimes multiple times. I watched a nurse cross from St. Stephen, NB into Calais, ME 50 metres, fill up her gas tank and turn right around back into Canada. Fact is, life in a border town will often require you to cross over once or many times a day.

LH423
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:10 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 28):
As far as needing a passport, it actually doesn't have anything to do with the EU, but rather Schengen. As an example: the UK is a member of EU, but not Schengen, so you need a passport to enter. Norway is not a member of the EU, but IS a member of Schengen, so you do not need a passport to enter

It actually has to do more with the EU and not much with Schengen. Citizens of the EU-member countries (regardless of whether part of Schengen or not) don't need a passport to enter the UK, their national ID card is sufficient - provided their country issues one (Austria, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Italy, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Malta, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain)
 
misbeehavin
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:58 am

Today, President Bush (aka the Clueless One) said he was surprised by these rules.

"When I first read that in the newspaper about the need to have passports, particularly today's crossings that take place, about a million for instance in the state of Texas, I said, `What's going on here?'"

WTF?
 
22right
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:48 am

I fail to understand the problem everyone seems to be having with this. Why is it so unreasonable to show a passport when you want to enter into a foreign country? What is so goddamn hard about displaying a passport instead of a drivers license or other such document?

What am I missing?  Confused
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:33 am

I think there is another thread running on this subject in Civ-Av . . . I mentioned in that thread that US Senator Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) has raised her hackles (as best she can  irked  ) about this issue in that there are several locations in Alaska where people cross to Canada to go to the grocery store, and visa versa. It is an obnoxious rule.

In that vein, I saw this in today's USAToday . . .

From the Article "President Bush said Thursday that he has ordered a review of a new government rule to be phased in by 2008 that will require American citizens to show a passport to re-enter the United States from Canada, Mexico, Panama, Bermuda and the Caribbean" . . . . . . "When I first read that in the newspaper about the need to have passports ... I said, 'What's going on here?' " Bush said."

Here's the link:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-04-14-bush-passport_x.htm

Further I heard on the enws today that Bush doesn't want the passport requirement specifically for our NAFTA partners Canada and Mexico.

I think it's a ridiculous requirement. More over reaction . . . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Yu138086
Topic Author
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RE: Passports Needed For USA Entry

Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:41 pm

Seems like the tide could turn afterall...

U.S. Urged to Ease Passport Proposal
Dalton McGuinty and Jean Charest joined forces yesterday to press the Bush administration to show some flexibility in new rules that could ultimately require passports for all visits between Canada and the United States.

The Ontario and Quebec premiers told U.S. Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff the new regulations announced earlier this month could hobble tourism north of the border and curtail impulsive trips worth billions of dollars to the two provinces.

"It's a real concern, given how few Americans have a passport," McGuinty said following a 75-minute meeting, also attended by Canadian Ambassador Frank McKenna. "It could act as a real deterrent to visitors."

Charest said Chertoff told the two premiers the Bush administration did not anticipate the passport being the ultimate solution to the matter.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...geid=968332188492&col=968793972154

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