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Blackbird1331
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Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:34 am

Yes, for years. I do not know how the White House staff measures success. I wish the president and his staff would grab their guns, go to Iraq, and actually support our troops. All due respect to the office of the presidency, but I really do not like this man.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
stlgph
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:39 am

but i thought we were winning?
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dragon-wings
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:10 am

A week or 2 ago he said the Insurgency was in it's last throes! (or was it Cheney that said that?)  banghead   sarcastic 
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
Klaus
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:11 am

That was Cheney; Maybe he was talking out of his pacemaker...!  crazy 
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:14 am

May I remind you of this thread?https://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/859947/

Even if the insurgents could be beaten back in this case, it is surprising that they could put up a company sized attack, including all the planning, reconnaisance, communications and logistics needed. They were only beaten back because one very brave Iraqi police machine gunner exposed himself to give covering fire, permitting his comrades to get into their fighting positions.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
airbuzz
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:51 am

Rumsfeld is a really funny guy:

  • "The war will finish in a few weeks"
  • "It will require some months"
  • "Maybe one year"
  • "Insurgency Could Last years"
  • ???
 
TedTAce
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:54 am

Even when we leave Iraq, there will be an "Insurgency". I suggest we 'sweep and clear' as many of them as possible, then Eject!! Eject!! Eject!!
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Blackbird1331
Topic Author
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:27 am

TedTace: the problem with that is that we have involved so many innocent, freedom loving Iraqs who cannot leave the country. There would be a bloodbath. Our current administration knows this, that is why they want to stay. They would never survive the scrutiny of the press, the public and the historians.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
TedTAce
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:41 am

Quoting Blackbird1331 (Reply 7):
There would be a bloodbath.

A) I didn't say bail right now like cowards. I want to kick a little ass, then bail.
I think we ought to gather as many Iraqis as possible near falleujah, then after SEVERAL days of warning the area to be affected; drop a MOAB on a terrorist part of the town, and let them know that's what's waiting for them if we have to come back... then we will be able to brag about 'shock and awe'.

B) The Iraqis have their own militia, it's not perfect but it's close to effective, and should be able to get this to a level simillar to Israel/Palestine, before terror boy Arafathead died. Is that domestic tranquility? Nope, but it's not worse then what Saddam was doing to his own people, and it is not OUR AWESOME/KICK-ASS troops dying for a cause a lot of Americans don't believe in.
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rsmith6621a
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:46 am

Quoting Blackbird1331 (Reply 7):
TedTace: the problem with that is that we have involved so many innocent, freedom loving Iraqs who cannot leave the country. There would be a bloodbath. Our current administration knows this, that is why they want to stay. They would never survive the scrutiny of the press, the public and the historians.

Wake UP!!!!!!

That is the Middle East.......It wouldnt matter if we pulled out tommorow or TEN years from now.....There will be insurgents ready to create Chaos...Bush just thinks in his own mind that we are the heros in the world for saving the world from Saddam and his evil ways.

Dick Cheney on a 9/14 edition of Meet The Press said that Iraq had no involvement with 9/11....the 9/11 comminsion agrees as well.....we are only over there for one simple line in the Downing Street Memos....Energy Security....not for you and I but for Bush and his tribe of corruption.

We attacked a soverign country without provocation except that Bush had a plan for his pocketbook.Remember that Haliburton(Cheneys Company) was the ones that were taking $$$ from the oil for food program and putting it in their bank account....where is a senate investigation on that........also where is the 9 billion $$$ that Haliburton somehow lost.....where is a senate investigation on that.....that was your tax dollars.

The USA broke Iraq....Colin Powell said we must buy it if we broke it....Just like everything else the Bush administration has proposed to us in the past 4.2 years they have horribly miscaculated.

Bush should be IMPEACHED and Rumslfeld should hand Bush his resignation and then run before Bush can talk him into staying......Rummy is a disgrace to the military.......remember he sold arms to Saddam in the early 80s.

[Edited 2005-06-27 00:48:36]
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
dragon-wings
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:51 am

WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Sunday he is bracing for even more violence in Iraq and acknowledged that the insurgency "could go on for any number of years." Defeating the insurgency may take as long as 12 years, he said, with Iraqi security forces, not U.S. and foreign troops, taking the lead and finishing the job.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050626/...;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

12 years????? That's crazy!! I know he says that Iraqi security forces, not U.S. and foreign troops, will take the lead and finish the job, but come on do you really think whoever is in charge then will leave those Iraqi forces to do the job by themselves??
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
174thfwff
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:55 am

Quoting Rsmith6621a (Reply 9):
we are only over there for one simple line in the Downing Street Memos....Energy Security....not for you and I but for Bush and his tribe of corruption.

I'm fine with that if what you are saying is the truth RSmith...the American economy revolves around oil, and with out it we wouldn't have plastic, the automobile industry would go under (it is starting to because American Car makers rely on the success of the "es-you-vee" and gas is expensive, therefore nobody buying those monster trucks) and this is a major source of jobs for our country, the trucking industry that is shipping goods like clothing and food that YOU buy every day are charging more becuase gas is more expensive (so the product prices are going to go up because the companies are not going to absorb those costs)....it's sad, but if this secures oil which our economy needs, so be it.
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
Blackbird1331
Topic Author
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:11 am

174thfwff: I started a thread on fuel alternatives a few days ago. Though I did not articulate your views, similar thoughts were on the back of my mind. I think the problems are being taken too lightly.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
rsmith6621a
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:41 am

Quoting 174thfwff (Reply 11):
)....it's sad, but if this secures oil which our economy needs, so be it.

What is pathetic is that no one want to acknowlege the reason that we(USA) presented to the world in the United Nation.....remember....WMD....Mushroom Clouds.....Mobile Labs....Iraq involvement in 9/11,which is and never was true. I dont ever remember Colin Powell or anyone else who present the case for war to the UN ever mentioning ENERGY SECURITY.

Face it the original reason we are in Iraq is long forgotten,the reason we are in Iraq changes to fit the current Bush agenda of the day.........

If the US government wants to stop the insurgency then why arent they giving some of those high paying jobs to the Iraq citizens.....so far only the contractors from outside of Iraq have secured those....If you want to give them hope give them a job.

We will never leave Iraq....we have built 14 permanant Mil Bases over there....What sort of defence equipment do you think that we will leave them if we ever leave......will they allow other countrys to bid or will the USA just give it to them as a token gift.......Face it Iraq will be a US commonwealth, we have broken it so much the peice will never get put back as they once were.
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
ltbewr
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:24 am

One estimate is '2017' - 12 years from now. In 12 years: Saddam Hussain, Rumsfeld and Chenny will all probably be plant food; W will be dottering around his ranch in TX probably muttering to himself wondering why he sent our troops into Iraq; we will still have the committment of a 100+ Billion a year for our troops in the middle east and terrorists will still threaten the USA and the rest of the world or may have done other 9/11 class mass terror attacks.
I am not optimistic for Iraq and for the USA's involvement there. We don't want an Iranian style government, but that is what may happen Iraq. We are getting closer to a complete collaspe of public support for our involvement in Iraq (although we care about the soldiers involved there). Americans are getting scared of putting more money and soldiers lives into a rat hole, but also scared of running away form Iraq and losing face. It is an obscene dillema that is beginning to look more like our fiascos in Viet Nam. Maybe by 2017, and being able to look back 15 years, we will realized that we should have chosen other paths to deal with Saddam's Iraq and the middle east in general.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:30 am

Quoting Dragon-wings (Reply 10):
Defeating the insurgency may take as long as 12 years, he said,

If only we all could have death throes like that.  Yeah sure

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:06 pm

Quoting Rsmith6621a (Reply 9):
Rummy is a disgrace to the military.......

I think this is the only thing SMitty ever said worth reading, and the only thing he ever said with which I agree!  faint 

There will be a presence in Iraq for decades. I said that in several other threads. Anyone thinks we'll be leaving when the sun sets tomorrow or next week, or next year is smoking crack. . . anyone who thought that from the outset of this conflict with Iraq or Afghanistan is smoking crack.

You know the tragic thing in my mind is this. Public support is waning, and with good reason. It's not that the public doesn't support the troops - that they do for sure. It's that their support for the war is waning - tossing more money and troops into it. What infuriates me is the leadership out of the Pentagon is letting the troops down with just plain lousy, shoddy, inept leadership - and thereby letting the public down as well.

I can only hope that when all is said and done, that no one blames the troops (as a whole) for the end result. Remember, it's not them . . .it's their leadership.

Rumsfeld is without a doubt the worst SecDef in my generation. I can make that statement with experience and not just as an off the cuff remark.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Klaus
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:33 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 16):
I can only hope that when all is said and done, that no one blames the troops (as a whole) for the end result.

Absolutely right. The easily overlooked other part of the contract between the military and the people besides "You´ve enlisted, you´ve known it might cost your life!" is this: "...And for that, the people will take responsibility that your life will only be risked when absolutely necessary!"

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 16):
Remember, it's not them . . .it's their leadership.

Right up to the very top and down to the ideologues who were behind it from the start.
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:17 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 16):
I can only hope that when all is said and done, that no one blames the troops (as a whole) for the end result. Remember, it's not them . . .it's their leadership.

I don't blame the troops one bit (apart from the few idiots in the ranks, but their numbers are almost negligible). They're out there doing their absolute best, and it disgusts me that they have to work under such incompetent leadership. The fact that they put their lives on the line for the country should not be taken lightly, and they deserve much better than what they're getting now out of the suits in Washington.

Truth be told, I'm not that opposed to the war itself. I'm happy to see Saddam out of power, and I think that removing dictators like him from power is a goal worth fighting for. What I am against is how the war has been managed, from the very beginning. I don't think the government was at all truthful about the reasons for war, the cost of the war, and how long the war could take, because if they were truthful, then they would never have gotten the required public support. Either that, or they are some of the greatest idiots to walk the earth. And I'm not sure which of those choices I'd prefer to believe.

I don't appreciate being misled, nor do I appreciate being led by idiots. And especially not when the lives of our troops are involved. I don't appreciate having propaganda shoved in my direction that tells me that everything is looking up when an eight year old kid can see that it's obviously not.

A little honesty from the government would be nice to see. I'm still waiting for it.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
sabenapilot
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:06 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 14):
Maybe by 2017, and being able to look back 15 years, we will have realized that we should have chosen other paths to deal with Saddam's Iraq and the middle east in general.

Something along these lines maybe?
Completely isolate him politically on the international stage, keep a close watch over him by means of our intelligence agencies, impose and enforce economic sanctions on his regime, contain the risk of him ever getting his hands on WMD again, negociate with his regime to have him make concessions in the human rights field through a diplomatic way?

In short: a combined diplomatic/economical/political and above all pragmatic approach rather than that macho military approach the US has taken?

I thought that was the view of OLD EUROPE right from the start????

Are the US now finally slowly conceding OLD EUROPE had it right from the start, not only about those alleged WMD (remember Chirac saying the French intelligence agency was convinced Iraq did not have any WMD posing a risk to its neighbours, let alone Europe or the USA?), but also about the way to best deal with dictators in the Middle East?
 
oly720man
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:06 pm

I think there was a major miscalculation in all this. People just did not think that there would be this scale of revolt by the insurgents, or that there would actually be any, apart from Iraqis who had been pushed aside.

I really do feel for the troops and the bulk of the Iraqi people who just want to get on with their lives and not be sitting ducks or political collateral damage. Are the US military really prepared for this level of guerilla warfare where there isn't an obvious enemy with planes, boats and tanks coming over the eastern horizon? I'm not sure I could cope with a situation where anyone in a crowd could come up to shake your hand or just as easily blow him/herself up.

What I wonder is who is actually bankrolling the insurgency. For the insurgency to do what is does is not an act of a disparate bunch of lunatics. There is organisation there, logistics and planning. Are anti-US/western elements in (pick your country) providing the intelligence and support for their acts?
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
Blackbird1331
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RE: Rumsfeld: Insurgency Could Last...

Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:05 am

George will address the nation in about one hour, 8:00PM Eastern, USA. Iraq and the war is the primary topic. I think we will see a reversal of what Rumsfeld said a few days ago.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.

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