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TedTAce
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Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:52 am

Quote:

From: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050629/D8B0UJD80.html
"For the sake of our nation's security, this will not happen on my watch," Bush said.

I don't think I NEED to say anything do I?
This space intentionally left blank
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:57 am

I think he gave a good speech. He did stumble there in the middle, though, but overall it was a clear message. I especially like the line he used, "That America will not wait to be attacked again".
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flyAUA
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:58 am

Well, now that he's done spitting out shit from his gob...

I hate him even more than before he started spitting shit out his gob  thumbsdown 

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cairo
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:01 am

Bush is still trying to paint a connection between September 11th and Iraq, even though there is none according to the 9/11 Commission. He hopes by mentioning 'September 11th' and 'Iraq' in the same sentence the Americans will support the Iraqi adventure.

The invasion in Iraq is about regime change, it had nothing to do with Iraq's terrorism threat against the US. It's a tactic of reminding us of the fear we felt at 9/11 mixed with a play towards patriotism - note his blatent use of references to the brave military and 'unfaltering' American people - to advance his political goal of a new regime in Iraq.

Bush wants us to believe there is an Al Qaeda boggeyman behind every bush (no pun intended). It's a Hitler tactic: to get the public to support your agression, first insist that there was a threat or agression aimed at us first.

How long is Bush going to use 9/11 to justify anything he wants? The so-called huge army of terrorists out there don't survive based on hating America, they get support because of hatred to American policies, which Bush wants you to not look to closely at or wonder why people would dislike them.

Cairo

no connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda/9-11:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5223932/

(I posted basically the same thing in another thread.)
 
dragon-wings
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:02 am

Mr. Bush we all heard this stuff already!

I can't belive how many time times he mentioned Iraq was involved with 9/11! How dumb does he think America is??

One part of the speech I found funny/interesting was when he said he will send more troops to Iraq if the commanders need them, then he said he wouldn't send more troops because the Iraqis will not stand up for themselves. He also said he will not send troops to make it look like we will be there forever. (that's not exactly what he said, but that was the basics of it)
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dl021
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:04 am

Well, it's a good thing the speech wasn't for you then, isn't it?

He did well, and spoke the truth. General McCaffrey came on NBC afterwards and gave an assessment of his tour there recently and feels that while its going to be tough we will be successful.

BTW Ted...if you're gonna make fun of a guy for mispeaking you might want to try using accepted spelling.
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FriendlySkies
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:06 am

What do I think? I think he's an idiotic dumbass. Oh wait, I thought that BEFORE the speech too...
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:15 am

Rove told W he read in the paper the other day approval ratings are slipping in the polls, so time for more lies to the American public in a Military setting.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 3):
How long is Bush going to use 9/11 to justify anything he wants?

January 2009.

Quoting Dragon-wings (Reply 4):
How dumb does he think America is??

Not as dumb as him for thinking they are.

 spin 

9/11=Iraq ~ Please, I thought the American public was not that stupid.


 spin 
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Mir
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:09 am

He really said nothing that we didn't already know (he wants to stay the course, we love the troops, etc.), and rehashed the terrorism and 9/11 issues (like we haven't heard those a gajillion times before). Lots of flair to it, but very little substance.

I found the thing about no new troops interesting. On the one hand, we don't want the Iraqis to think that we are increasing the occupation force. But on the other hand, it would seem that more troops really are necessary, and Iraqi opinion be damned. The Iraqi security force isn't ready yet, and won't be for a while. The US is, at the moment, the only country that can secure Iraq, and securing Iraq is something that needs to be done as soon as possible.

Staying the course is a noble idea. But staying the course has brought very little progress in the way of violence reduction so far. I don't think it's wise to just stand pat and say "things will get better, just ride it out." When there is a problem, you take steps to address the problem and attempt to solve it. And there are plenty of problems in Iraq. And time does heal, but does it very very slowly.

-Mir
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jetjack74
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:13 am

Listen here, you guys are completely missing the point. Bush is saying the same thing because that's exactly what he's trying to do. He's sticking to his plan, He's not waivering from this position, never has. It pisses you people off because you're hoping he's going to give in to his critics. Its not going to happen. He's said that this war is going to outlast his administration, he's not bend with the wind. If you guys are pissed, than that means his message is getting through, because other than myself, everyone here hates Bush. Well good, i'm glad he's succeeding in disapointing you.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 3):
Bush is still trying to paint a connection between September 11th and Iraq, even though there is none according to the 9/11 Commission. He hopes by mentioning 'September 11th' and 'Iraq' in the same sentence the Americans will support the Iraqi adventure.

Wrong. He's not saying that. He's saying the same people in Iraq (Zarqawi's gang) who are behind this insurgency are the same poeple who perpetrated the 9/11 attacks. He's saying that there is no difference between those who flew the airplanes into WTC, Pentagon, and Somerset, PA and those who bombed the gov't buildings in Riyadh, the Marriot in Bali and the insurgents in who attacked the Mosul Base in January. These rats are united in there mission to fight against freedom and democracy. Bush is reiterating his commitment to stay the course. And you liberals who have gotten so used to idea of turning tails and running when the polls aren't in your favor, this is your wakeup call. This is not the Clinton Administration, and cutting and running is not what's going to happen. Keep it up, and the more doubtful you are, the bigger the sign that we're going to win against the terrorists in the end.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:14 am

Good speech. Appropriate audience. Proper venue. Since it is the US Soldier that is facing the brunt of the fighting and casualties, it was appropriate.

Several points he made which he'd made before: Stay the course, finish the job, insurgency will not win.

Several points I didn't hear: When will US/Iraqi forces CLOSE the Iraqi borders in an attempt to keep out the insurgency. Make up of the insurgency - that being non-Iraqi for the most part.

Point I'm glad he DID NOT make: How long will we be there, when will we pull out?

Point I wish he'd made: We have a NEW SecDef that will actually LISTEN to the field commanders and actually feed ME the information I need to have, not what he wants me to have.

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 7):
Rove told W he read in the paper the other day approval ratings are slipping in the polls, so time for more lies to the American public in a Military setting.

You want to address something about his speech or just continue to spew nonsense. Amazing how when the Anti-Bush mongrels have nothing to critique, they fall back on "he lied" - "he lied". C'Mon Texan, surely you can do better. Prove it to me!

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
I think he's an idiotic dumbass

Well, when you grow up YOU can run for President . . . you're obviously much smarter than he.
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rsmith6621a
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:15 am

TedAce.......Nothing like starting a DUPE Thread......

The speech was over before it started
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PA110
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:16 am

The ultimate irony is that although Al Qaeda was not in Iraq before the war, they are there now.

Can you blame this on Bush? Absolutely.

The team of Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld (otherwise known as Dewey, Cheatham and Howe... wait for it) through inept planning turned Iraq into the biggest Al Qaeda recruitment poster on earth. The problem now is we're stuck. If we pack up and run, we've not only screwed ordinary Iraqi citizens, but we've now created far more of a threat than we ever had before. Thank you so very much Mr. Bush!

We're going to have to tough it out and try to take out the insurgency, because it represents a far more real threat to Americans than Saddam Hussein ever was.
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jetjack74
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:18 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 6):
I think he's an idiotic dumbass

You seem to think you can recognise a dumbass. You know what they say, it takes one toooooo.............
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TPASXM787
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:20 am

That's the thing, people just say "Bush is a dumbass, Signed 99% of the world"

Never any substance. I want answers too, but there are certain things he can and cannot say, he's a politician, what else is new.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:24 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 9):
Listen here, you guys are completely missing the point. Bush is saying the same thing because that's exactly what he's trying to do. He's sticking to his plan, He's not waivering from this position, never has

They'll never get it JetJack - they are still inundated by the JF Kerry Flip Flop syndrome. . . . don't know how to Continue Mission until it's done.

Quoting Rsmith6621a (Reply 11):
TedAce.......Nothing like starting a DUPE Thread......

The speech was over before it started

At least he let the man finish . . . and hasn't spewed any shit - just posted a link, asked for opinion and moved on. Give it a shot sometime Smitty, you might be surprised!

Edit: Typo

[Edited 2005-06-29 04:37:51]
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Mir
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:24 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 12):
Dewey, Cheatham and Howe

Have you forgotten? They're presently working for Car Talk, and have no time to devote to other projects.  spin 

-Mir
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jetjack74
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:25 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 12):
The ultimate irony is that although Al Qaeda was not in Iraq before the war, they are there now.

And how do you know?
There were numerous times when Abu Musab Al Zarqawi was in Baghdad over the last 4 years leading up to the Iraq invasion. And who does Zarqawi work alongside? Al Qaeda! Zarqawi got his prosthetic leg there in Sept 02, before we went into Iraq. He was there, that is the connection Al Qaeda. Plus Saddam's continued support of Suicide Bombers in Israel. Saddam was paying the families of these martyrs $20,000 per attack. You people have ignored that everytime i've brought it up. Denial, denial.
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jetjack74
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:29 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
They'll never get it JetJack - they are still inundated by the JF Kerry Flip Flop syndrome. . . . don't know how to Continue Mission until it's done.

That's it, all liberals on A.net will get a pair of new Tevas or Birkenstocks with little "Question Marks" all over them as a gift from me for Christmas. Wear them with pride.

[Edited 2005-06-29 04:31:43]
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Mir
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:39 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 18):
That's it, all liberals on A.net will get a pair of new Tevas or Birkenstocks with little "Question Marks" all over them as a gift from me for Christmas. Wear them with pride

I eagerly await them....  spin 

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
cairo
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:44 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 9):
These rats are united in there mission to fight against freedom and democracy.

This is just something someone told you to make you think someone is against you and your way of life. It produces the desired reaction - you are hostile to them and ready to kill young Americans. In reality, the people who are attacking American soldiers in Iraq and who attacked on September 11th don't care about democracy and freedom in Iraq or in America, they are angry at American POLICIES.

As soon as you see that it is American POLICIES that cause anger, and not that there are just madmen running around who are pissed off at Americans because they wear bikinis or have Michael Jackson, the sooner you'll be on the road to understanding.

Anyway, that is the view in Cairo, where I am now. "freedom and democracy" are just catchphrases to appeal to your patriotism and your desire to fight those who disagree with you. Look into American policies in the ME, this alone explains attacks on American interests, freedom and democracy are irrelevant.

BTW, I voted for Bush and supported the invasion.

Cairo
 
diamond
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:49 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
Good speech. Appropriate audience. Proper venue. Since it is the US Soldier that is facing the brunt of the fighting and casualties, it was appropriate.

Come on, ANC ... you are leaning farther to the right every day. You've claimed to be a 'moderate independent' quite a few times. But as members of Bush's own party are starting to question him and his approach you stand at attention and salute.

No, this isn't about Rumsfeld.

This is about the President, himself.

The venue was NOT proper. He is using soldiers as a stage prop. If his message was 'for' soldiers and 'about' soldiers, there should have been no cameras and broadcast involved.

He knows he cannot hold a press conference because the questions he receives may be tougher than he can answer.

He knows he cannot have yet another of his 'town hall' meetings with audience members who are auditioned in advance and asked to sign all sorts of waivers and releases. The media and general public have had enough of that.

And his message did not have enough factual data or decisiveness to warrant being broadcast from the Oval Office. At least he didn't make the mistake of trying to look Presidential.

So he defaulted to familiar turf. Just like the 'mission accomplished' speech from the deck of a carrier. In tonight's environment, a soldier would be deemed a traitor for NOT reacting with enthusiasm at each opportunity. It was not representative of AMERICA .. it was only representative of HIS POLITICAL BASE, HIS WAR, HIS AGENDA.

Even the Wall Street Journal has realized that GWB is the first 'war-time' President in our history who has not lifted a finger to unite America. His message has been "you're either with me or you're against me" from the beginning.


I am both concerned and disappointed that YOU are not asking more questions about this than you are.
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ltbewr
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 11:57 am

I didn't watch the President's speech tonight, but I understand the basis theme form excerpts in the news. It is a shame that the neo-cons run the country, whom had never accepted the end of the Gulf War as it left Saddam in power and have used the 9/11 attacks to carry out their long desired goals and finish the Gulf War our way - not the UN's way. Worse however as to Iraq would be to 'fail' and withdraw with our tail between our legs in defeat, as it would send the wrong message to the world and particlulary to the terrorist world.
To me our involvement in Iraq includes many weak reasons but really the need to protect the oil in that region for the USA and the rest of the world was critical. Some of those other reasons to me include: The desire to seek revenge upon the Islamic world for the 9/11 and other attacks, to intimindate the Islamic world for hurting us; the failure of the UN (in it's sanctions) and President Clinton to really deal with Iraq and Islamic terror, the costs and political problems of the 'no-fly' zones and containment of Iraq, the disasterous food for oil program as to it's failure to help the Iraqi people; our desire to remove our (USA's) forces out of Saudi Arabia to placate the government and get a big issue of the terrorists off the table. Our decision was made less rationalized by bad info and looking through rose colored glasses of that info, focusing on what wanted to see and playing a phony WMD card (although Iraq under Saddam may have had 'dual use' facilities that could have been adopted to produce harmful chemicals, bio weapons.
Look, one speech won't help and until Bush and his supporters admit their arraogance in this (and many other) issues and take different approaches both militarly and diplomaticly, then Bush will go down in failure as a President.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:07 pm

Quoting Diamond (Reply 21):
Come on, ANC ... you are leaning farther to the right every day. You've claimed to be a 'moderate independent' quite a few times. But as members of Bush's own party are starting to question him and his approach you stand at attention and salute.

That's correct, I am a Moderate Independent, and my support for this war, the troops and the President has never waivered. Check past threads and posts, you'll see that.

I question what I feel needs to be questioned, and I don't question that with which I agree. Simple as that. Please read my reply #10, this thread, where I exercised that very option.

And it IS about Rumsfeld, AND Rice AND anyone else that advises this President. If you know ANYTHING about Rummy at all, you'll realize my concerns with him aren't borne from what I've erad in the news rather from personal experience. Furthermore, PotUS isn't running this show alone - although the burden falls squarely on his shoulders. He's running it with the CIA, DoD, State and Justice. IMO, all in one fashion or another, have fucked the proverbial dog on this. Since we're talking about the war here, I'll restrict my arguments to the DoD. Dumsfeld's autocratic dictatorship is not doing DoD any good. He is, without question, the worst SecDef in my adult life - most of it spent in a US Army uniform - and it's getting worse. I'm quite sure that no matter what the field commanders say in the desert, it either doesn't get back to him in propr context or if it does, it is dismissed because "Dumseld knows better". Remember, Diamond - "We'll fight this war on the cheap and rely on technology". Well, my friend, technology can't clear a building or repair a school or . . . . . .

Quoting Diamond (Reply 21):
I am both concerned and disappointed that YOU are not asking more questions about this than you are.

Like I said, I question what I find necessary.

Although occasionally, I think my friend JetJack drinks from the STRONG Bush Koolaid Pitcher, in this case he's right. The man didn't waiver, hasn't changed course based on public opinion, continues with the same message, and recognizes, as do I and most Americans that we cannon simply pull out and run.

Quoting Diamond (Reply 21):
And his message did not have enough factual data or decisiveness to warrant being broadcast from the Oval Office.

What Facts were you looking for Diamond?

Quoting Diamond (Reply 21):
a soldier would be deemed a traitor for NOT reacting with enthusiasm at each opportunity

And that's utter nonesense and you know it.
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padcrasher
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:12 pm

Here are the latest numbers from the five largest coalition members. Doesn't look like they're falling for Bush's bullshit. One can only hope that the Bush supporters on this board enlist and/or encourage their children to enlist to fill the recruiting shortfall.

1)United Kingdom 8,761 was 12,000
2)South Korea 3,600 was 2,800
3)Italy 3,600 was 3,169 (pullout begins 9/05)
4)Poland 1,700 was 2,400 (zero by end of '05)
5)Ukraine 1,450 was 1,400 (zero by 10/05
 
diamond
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:17 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 23):
Quoting Diamond (Reply 21):
a soldier would be deemed a traitor for NOT reacting with enthusiasm at each opportunity

And that's utter nonsense and you know it.

Dude, who are you kidding ??????

Our own Air Force Academy is dealing with rampant proselytizing by Protestant Christian zealots who have sparked violence with fellow soldiers of other religions because they were not "godly enough" and were therefore "unfit" to serve.

Although our Armed Forces are certainly defending democracy, they sure aren't an EXAMPLE of it.

The motto seems to be:

- There is one view.
- Follow it.
- Or prepare to have your opinion 'adjusted'.


So if tha AFA's soldiers are at huge risk of violence for practicing their own faith in privacy, are you trying to tell me that the Ft. Bragg soldiers were totally free to sit there without cheering or applauding - IN FRONT OF A NATIONAL TV AUDIENCE?

THAT is what is utter nonsense and YOU know it.
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diamond
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:28 pm

The following is a response from Nancy Pelosi, House Minority Leader. I have highlighted a few points with which I specifically agree:


Pelosi Statement on Bush Speech on Iraq

Washington, D.C. – House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi released the following statement tonight in response to the President’s speech on the war in Iraq, and his failure to provide the American people with strategy for success:

“The President missed an opportunity tonight for straight talk to the American people. He would have done more to honor the sacrifices of the brave men and women of the ‘All-American’ Division before whom he spoke had he given all Americans specifics about a strategy for success in Iraq.

“The President’s frequent references to the terrorist attacks of September 11 show the weakness of his arguments. He is willing to exploit the sacred ground of 9/11, knowing that there is no connection between 9/11 and the war in Iraq.

“As the President noted, it is only one year after the return of sovereignty, but it has been 27 months since the President launched his pre-emptive strike. Iraq is now what it was not when the war began – a magnet for terrorism – because the President invaded Iraq with no idea of what it would take to secure the country after Baghdad fell. The insurgency took root in the unstable conditions that have now existed in substantial parts of Iraq for far too long.

“The American people understand what is at stake in Iraq and in the Middle East. That is why it is so disappointing that the President failed tonight, as he has failed consistently since the war began, to lay out specifics for success, including performance benchmarks.

“Regrettably, the President did not address key questions that must be answered: What will it take to train the Iraqi security forces to a level that will allow them to conduct combat operations without the assistance of our troops? How will reconstruction be done a priority so that electricity flows regularly, people are put to work, and Iraqis see a future in which they have a stake? When will diplomacy be employed effectively so that leaders in the region know that we recognize that their assistance is crucial to taking pressure off our troops and to fashioning an inclusive political process in Iraq?

“Our commitment in Iraq does not have to be measured by timetables, but neither can it be open-ended. The President must still do what he did not do tonight: lay out clearly the task that remains for the United States in Iraq and how it is to be accomplished.”

=========================================================

And the following comments were made by Pelosi earlier today, before Bush's speech:

=========================================================

Pelosi: Tonight, The President Must Present a Strategy for Success in Iraq
Washington, D.C. – House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi joined Congressman John Murtha of Pennsylvania at a news conference this afternoon to discuss the war in Iraq and the questions Democrats would like President Bush to answer in his speech tonight. Below are Pelosi’s remarks:

“Tonight, the President addresses the American people on Iraq. After 27 months of war, nearly 1,750 Americans have been killed, thousands more wounded – some of them permanently – and more than $200 billion tax payer’s dollars have been spent. With this loss of life and limb, and dollars, as well as our reputation, the President owes the American people some answers.

“It’s time for the President to level with the American people. Truth and trust are vital to government, but never as crucial as when we put our men and women in harm’s way.

“Tonight, the President must present a strategy for success. He needs to answer the question of how Iraq is to be made stable and secure. What is his plan to send to Congress, including the indicators by which Congress, and the American people, can measure whether progress is being made toward the accomplishment of that goal?

“Regardless of the differences that many of us had about whether we should go to war – and those differences are fundamental and they are deep – the judgment now is about how this war is being executed and whether we agree with the policy or not. There are grave and serious questions across the board about the execution of the war.

“Our men and women in uniform deserve the answers more than the American people. We respect and admire our troops, and are grateful to them for their patriotism, for their courage, and for the sacrifices they are willing to make for our country. But the sacrifices made by our troops are not being met by the level of planning that they deserve.

“Our commitment to Iraq does not have to be measured by timetables, nor should it be open ended. But we must have benchmarks. And the President should give them to us tonight, and how he plans to reach them. The sacrifices of our country, particularly our men and women in uniform and their families, are too substantial to continue without a way to determine how those sacrifices are advancing the goal of successfully concluding the mission in Iraq.

“The American people now know that the war in Iraq is not making our country safer.

“Tonight, let us forget the rosy scenarios, and reminders of how ‘tough the job is.’ Let us not divide our country by saying who is for the troops and who is not. We are all for the troops and we view our support for the troops to be measured by not only the equipment and intelligence we give them, but by a level of planning to meet their level of sacrifice.
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jaysit
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:39 pm

We've gone from lies to excuses.

Essentially what he's saying is that he didn't lie, but that he blundered. That he isn't a liar, but a fool.

At this point, the man and his administration are so deep in it, that they've convinced themselves that the only way out of lies and deceit and obfuscation is to believe its true. Or else pretend that they made mistakes - mistakes that have cost the lives of at least 15,000 people.
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rsmith6621a
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:49 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
At least he let the man finish . . . and hasn't spewed any shit - just posted a link, asked for opinion and moved on. Give it a shot sometime Smitty, you might be surprised!

ANC.....Please answer this.........What difference does it make if I read a pre-released text and make my mind up and then post on the forum or I let him finish wasting 30 minutes of local news time.............Hell Foxnews was already saying the speech was brilliant before the Chimp began to speak so tell me what the difference is?????

Face it you hate having people holding your Savior and Chief accountable for the wrong doing he has reaped upon the USA....
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
ANCFlyer
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:58 pm

Quoting Diamond (Reply 25):
Our own Air Force Academy is dealing with rampant proselytizing by Protestant Christian zealots who have sparked violence with fellow soldiers of other religions because they were not "godly enough" and were therefore "unfit" to serve.

And before this it was the Rape of the cadets.

I think both are bullshit and have so stated.

Your point?

I read your Pelosi points. First, let me say I feel about Pelosi about how RSmith feels about PotUS.

That said, she has some interesting points.

Quoting Diamond (Reply 26):
Iraq is now what it was not when the war began – a magnet for terrorism – because the President invaded Iraq with no idea of what it would take to secure the country after Baghdad fell.

Agreed - please see my remarks re: The DoD and Dumsfeld. And please see previous posts I've made about the lack of follow-on Operational Planning after the initial invasion.

Quoting Diamond (Reply 26):
What will it take to train the Iraqi security forces to a level that will allow them to conduct combat operations without the assistance of our troops?

Agreed, see my reply #10, this thread.

Quoting Diamond (Reply 26):
The President must still do what he did not do tonight: lay out clearly the task that remains for the United States in Iraq and how it is to be accomplished.”

Somewhat agree, see my reply #10 this thread.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
planecrazy2
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:16 pm

Did any of you notice right at the end when he was giving his last line it looked like he was about to start crying? Call me crazy but the look on his face seemed like it.
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:22 pm

Quoting Dragon-wings (Reply 4):
Mr. Bush we all heard this stuff already!

I can't belive how many time times he mentioned Iraq was involved with 9/11! How dumb does he think America is??

Exactly 54 million people give or take a million (Ohio, remember?)

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 9):
Listen here, you guys are completely missing the point. Bush is saying the same thing because that's exactly what he's trying to do. He's sticking to his plan, He's not waivering from this position, never has. It pisses you people off because you're hoping he's going to give in to his critics. Its not going to happen. He's said that this war is going to outlast his administration, he's not bend with the wind. If you guys are pissed, than that means his message is getting through, because other than myself, everyone here hates Bush. Well good, i'm glad he's succeeding in disapointing you.

mmm let me see, a record deficit of close to 8 trillion, even more spending on the invasion, more casualties and for sure a lot more people angry at the US government....yeah I am sooo disapointed...

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
Several points I didn't hear: When will US/Iraqi forces CLOSE the Iraqi borders in an attempt to keep out the insurgency. Make up of the insurgency - that being non-Iraqi for the most part.

Those guys cannot secure the US/Mexico border, how can you expect them to close the Irak border?

Now, the real question is, are you as an U.S. citizen prepared to give your hard earned tax dollars for this ongoing blunder till 2009 probably more? at the current rate it would mean 14 to 15 trillion dollars deficit, 5400 more casualities and 36 to 41 thousand wounded badly do you think thats the "SAFE WAY"?

As he said the night he got elected

I HAVE A HUGE POLITICAL CAPITAL, AND I PLAN TO SPEND IT
(he may go bankrupt faster than you think...)
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:33 pm

Quoting Theredbaron (Reply 31):
Those guys cannot secure the US/Mexico border, how can you expect them to close the Irak border?

Well, Baron, the folks at the US/Mexican border aren't exactly our enemy now are they - although I don't appreciate their illegal entry but that's a different thread . . .

The folks crossing the border into Iraq illegally (or legally for that matter) are likely out for no good . . . shoot 'em. Shoot 'em now. Either they play the game and enter Iraq legally or they die. Simple.

Nooo, we can't patrol the US/Mexican border with gunships and shoot anything that moves. Yessss, we can do that in Iraq. Will we get everyone, no. Will we get most of them, yes.

Quoting Theredbaron (Reply 31):
Now, the real question is, are you as an U.S. citizen prepared to give your hard earned tax dollars for this ongoing blunder till 2009 probably more? at the current rate it would mean 14 to 15 trillion dollars deficit, 5400 more casualities and 36 to 41 thousand wounded badly do you think thats the "SAFE WAY"?

The short answer is yes. We can't bail out on those people. We started it, we have to finish it.

Tell me, what's your solution - you haven't said anything about that.

Amazingly, when I read most posts - not all - that are against this war, I don't read solutions, I read bitching and moaning. It would be a novel concept if someone would put some substance with their gripe.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You T

Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:49 pm

"Amazingly, when I read most posts - not all - that are against this war, I don't read solutions, I read bitching and moaning. It would be a novel concept if someone would put some substance with their gripe."

The clowns like Rsmith and company don't have solutions, mostly because they are no smarter than the man they hate so much, the President. Sadly, Bush seems to be more or less without a real plan and they can't seem to come up with one.. Even if Bush did have a real plan for Iraq they would be making fun of it, saying it was a bad plan regardless of its merits because they don't like the source.

I just wish the senseless bitching and moaning would cease. Our troops are getting killed almost every day (and so are Iraqis but I don't care about them) and all so many on this forum can do is bitch bitch bitch. Come up with something constructive PLEASE. If the people running the country did nothing but bitch and moan like this forum seems to do even less would get done than presently does. In fact, I think the fact all that seems to come from the left side of the aisle in congress seems to be bitching, and no real solutions, and that may be part of the problem. You have to give something if you want results.

Delete this if you don't like the language, or just ignore me like you do anyone who tells the whiners to get a clue. It must be nice to always make your decisions with hindsight on your side.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
stlgph
Posts: 11224
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:01 pm

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 33):
The clowns like Rsmith and company don't have solutions,

the solution is to get the hell out of there.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 33):
Our troops are getting killed almost every day (and so are Iraqis but I don't care about them)

then as long as we're there for a senseless reason, let the senseless deaths continue. i second your notion.
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CaptOveur
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:05 pm

So we are supposed to get out tomorow and turn a blind eye to the chaos that will follow? That is not a solution.

We made the mess, it is our duty to the world to clean it up.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
Shawn Patrick
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 7:30 am

RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:08 pm

Quoting Cairo (Reply 20):
As soon as you see that it is American POLICIES that cause anger, and not that there are just madmen running around who are pissed off at Americans because they wear bikinis or have Michael Jackson, the sooner you'll be on the road to understanding.

Cairo, this is so incredibly true, and welcome to my RR. You are wise and can see past the Republican rhetoric.

Quoting Diamond (Reply 21):
He knows he cannot hold a press conference because the questions he receives may be tougher than he can answer.

I wish he would give a speech like this in San Francisco or L.A., where he has few friends. But no, that will never happen. Coward. Has he EVER even been to these cities? I think he would need a considerable amount of security.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 29):
And before this it was the Rape of the cadets.

I think both are bullshit and have so stated.

How naive you are. Bullshit? What if your daughter was raped there? Still bullshit? I have spent a considerable amount of time at the AFA and I have a very good perspective of what is going on there. I can tell you the rape and religious persecution issues ARE definetly present. They ARE issues that need to be dealt with. I can also tell you the AFA is very poorly mismanaged, exactly the same way the country currently is. I don't even know why you think the AFA stuff is bullshit. Wow, what an unsupported statement if there ever was one.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 33):
Delete this if you don't like the language

We all know you have to use harsh language to sound macho and unfaltering like your buddy Bush. We'll understand  Smile
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:12 pm

Yeah attack the language not the message.. Something to be expected from someone with nothing to offer.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
Shawn Patrick
Posts: 2465
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:13 pm

Hey, you brought up the language bit.
 
rsmith6621a
Posts: 1508
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You T

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:16 pm

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 33):
The clowns like Rsmith and company don't have solutions,

Niether does this President......

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 33):
just wish the senseless bitching and moaning would cease. Our troops are getting killed almost every day (and so are Iraqis but I don't care about them) and all so many on this forum can do is bitch bitch bitch

Wouldnt have anything to bitch about had the President been TRUTHFUL with us....Captovouer... when do you wake up and realize the Iraq war had nothing to do with 9/11 that has been proven and even George admitted it well after 1000 of those troops gave their lives but tonight once again he tried to tie Iraq to it. We were lied to when is enough enough for you????.....I support the TROOPS by speaking out against these lies....I send letters to Senators and Congmn who consistantly vote against the best intrest of the troops...How can you support this President........Bush has no sollutions except to make the ELITE who have been awarded all of the contracts very rich...(where is the Senate investigation on the 9billion$$$ Haliburton somehow lost....geez...the repubs impeached over a blow job 9billion is a lot of blow.....Bushes only sollution is to stay the course of failure and his own best intrest via his pocketbook, is 2008 around the corner.
Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
 
Basas
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:16 am

RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:16 pm

I thought the speech was well-delivered. The Left will of course be upset that Bush will re-gain support and has restored some confidence in the American people. After all, they live day to day to try and show how bad he is. Too bad they can't win elections..
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:17 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 34):
the solution is to get the hell out of there.

Simply can't do that STL . . . no way. We've started that mess there, we have to finish it. We can't just walk away. You think the world thinks bad of us now - let us bail out of Iraq right now and watch world opinion really go to hell.

Quoting Shawn Patrick (Reply 36):
How naive you are. Bullshit? What if your daughter was raped there? Still bullshit?

Shawn Patrick, you very obviously misunderstood my post.

It's bullshit that anyone can be raped at the AFA. It's bullshit that there is religious persecution apparently going on at the AFA. I do not condone either. It is reprehensible.

Quoting Shawn Patrick (Reply 36):
They ARE issues that need to be dealt with

 yes 

Quoting Shawn Patrick (Reply 36):
I can also tell you the AFA is very poorly mismanaged

 yes 

Do you understand now?
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:22 pm

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 35):
We made the mess, it is our duty to the world to clean it up.

You know, that's the funny thing. Wasn't it the Neocons who made this mess? Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Tenet, Powell (Gasp!)? Sure, all of Congress voted on it, but wasn't it the administration who was the driving force behind it?

You guys all whine and complain how the Democrats aren't giving solutions. Well the Republicans and Neocons started this damned awful mess, started it on a bunch of lies and misinformation, and the continue their lies and misinformation (note the numerous 9-11 comments tonight). The same people that started this mess haven't given us a soluation either. What do you think about that? Everybody who said this was such a great speech, what do you say about the complete lack of any solution to this mess from the Neocons and Republicans?
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Shawn Patrick
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:23 pm

Alright then, sorry for jumping at you.
 
Basas
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:16 am

RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:23 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 42):
Wasn't it the Neocons who made this mess?

Wasn't it John Kerry and his friends on the left that supported the war? Oh...thats right, we'd still have made a mess no matter who was president.
 
Schoenorama
Posts: 2305
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 5:15 am

RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:23 pm

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 35):
We made the mess, it is our duty to the world to clean it up.

I believe that is basically what many people expected to hear from Bush in his speech. The fact that he failed to do so (trying to link Iraq with 9/11 for the umptieth time) is what makes people 'bitch and moan'.
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
Shawn Patrick
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 7:30 am

RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:25 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 42):
Everybody who said this was such a great speech, what do you say about the complete lack of any solution to this mess from the Neocons and Republicans?

Yeah, exactly. Why the hell should democrats be responsible for finding solutions to messes created by republicans? Why don't they fix their own mess?

I think democrats (or anybody) should find a good solution, though. We need SOMEONE to help this situation. But don't DARE pin this burden on democrats - you started it! (republicans)
 
SFOMEX
Posts: 1602
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RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:26 pm

I'm one of those that think war in Iraq was a mistake. Yet, we must to get real and accept that president Bush is right on this: US troops must remain in Iraq as long as they are needed.

As many here, I know one or two people serving in Iraq that I'd like to see back in home ASAP. Nonetheless, it'd be a huge disservice to the war on terror to leave Iraq in the wrong hands. Obviously, Mr. Bush can't promise a date for the soldiers return, it'd only make things worst.

Quoting Diamond (Reply 26):
Pelosi Statement on Bush Speech on Iraq

What a surprise, a San Francisco liberal who happens to be the Democratic leader in the House is critical of president Bush speech. Gee, I wonder how Senator Frist will react to the President's speech. Anxiety is killing me.  eek 
The only thing worst than the GOP is the Democratic Party, think about it!
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You T

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:30 pm

Rsmith,
when have I ever linked Iraq and 9/11? Answer me that and maybe you will gain a shred of credibility.

A lie is only a lie if the person telling it KNOWS it is false at the time. Prove he knew and you may have something there. going off for paragraphs on end on some tangent about how he must have known is NOT evidence. It's great when you have hindsight on your side. Get over this crap where you base decisions 4 years ago on facts only known here and now and maybe you will regain some credibility, not that you had any in the first place.

How do I support the President? Easy, I look at the clowns, like yourself, on the other side and decide who I can most relate to. It sure as hell isn't you.

Halliburton has nothing to do with this debate. Also, for the 15,000th and final time. If Cheney has any ties remaining with that company please provide proof and get the legal ball rolling, he is in violation of a bunch of laws, probably a few of which can get you your wet dream of his removal.. You might even be able to get Bush on that one. Gotta prove it though and actual proof seems to be something you are thin on.

Oh and there are more companies over there than just Halliburton and subsidiaries.. If you could find the cash you could start up a company to provide some sort of support service and get your very own cost-plus contract.


Judging by your spelling and grammar your letters to congressmen probably get a quick trip to the cylindrical file. This site is equipped with a spell checker, please use it. I also hope you have better written communication skills than you appear to have on these boards.

This is an American fight, Democrat or Republican makes no difference. It is the duty of the government, not one particular party, to figure out a solution.

[Edited 2005-06-29 07:32:28]
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
Shawn Patrick
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 7:30 am

RE: Now That Dubua Is Done Speaking, What Do You Think

Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:33 pm

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 48):
Judging by your spelling and grammar your letters to congressmen probably get a quick trip to the cylindrical file. This site is equipped with a spell checker, please use it. I also hope you have better written communication skills than you appear to have on these boards.

Let me quote yourself: "Yeah attack the language not the message.. Something to be expected from someone with nothing to offer."

ROFL Big grin

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