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Bofredrik
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Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:03 pm

Cuba's infant mortality rate has fallen to less than six deaths per thousand babies born, the lowest in Latin America.

I noted that the US infant death rate is seven per thousand.

Its low infant mortality rate compares to eight percent in Costa Rica and Chile, according to UNICEF figures.

(UNICEF has publicly acknowledged that “Children born in Cuba have the best chance to survive the first years of their life than the rest of the children of Latin America and the Caribbean region”.)
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:10 pm

....so, will that be Oreo or Chocolate Chip for them?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:57 pm

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
Cuba's infant mortality rate has fallen to less than six deaths per thousand babies born, the lowest in Latin America.

OK... and? Should Castro get a Nobel Prize for that?
 
Bofredrik
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:19 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 1):

Oreo & Chocolate Chip? No. We are talking about HEALTH...:D
 
Bofredrik
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:20 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 2):

No. But give him a credit for this facts.
 
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solnabo
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:25 pm

BoFredrik:

Ill guess you are out on a limb here. Low infant mortality or not, they still got a moron dictator called Fidel........

Micke//SE  Wink
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L410Turbolet
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:36 pm

Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 4):
But give him a credit for this facts.

The only ones who deserve credit are the Cuban doctors, who did not defect and have to deal with the "fruits" of mismanaged planned economy such as lack of almost everything.
 
HOMER71
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:33 pm

Thanks for the info, but if it's alright with you, I'm staying right here (the infant mortality rate in our family is zero).  Wink

BTW, what's their adult defector mortality rate?
"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
 
luisde8cd
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:46 pm

what's the purpose of surviving death at age 0 when you die of hunger later or grow up making queue lines to get your weekly ration of "food"?
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:55 pm

Hard to believe that infant mortality is lower in a third world country than US. Wonder what UNICEF says about Cuban’s access to healthcare?
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
TACAA320
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:13 pm

This link http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/2005/01/05/claims.shtml mention that "Cuba claims..." Apparently is nothing "official".
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Falcon84
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:16 pm

If it's such a great place, move there Bofredrick.
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luisde8cd
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:18 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 6):

The only ones who deserve credit are the Cuban doctors, who did not defect and have to deal with the "fruits" of mismanaged planned economy such as lack of almost everything.

Oh boy... you should have seen the Cuban doctors working here in Venezuela that have defected to Foreign Embassies here in Caracas. They don't stay here because of fear that the Chavez govt will hunt them down.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:25 am

Well not THAT would explain all those people sneaking past the soldiers and wading into the ocean from Florida trying to paddle to Cuba.

Oh, wait! It's the other way around.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
KiwiNanday
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:27 am

Silly Islamic extremists, it's just a cartoon!
 
tbar220
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:39 am

Interesting statistic. Do you have a source, or a link?
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Jetsgo
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:48 am

Nothing new from Bofredrik, he just loves to spew anti-American bullshit or whatever he can find to make the US look bad. Grow up and realize no matter what your sick mind tells you, the US is a better place then Cuba. End of story.


Chris
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B744F
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:31 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 6):
The only ones who deserve credit are the Cuban doctors, who did not defect and have to deal with the "fruits" of mismanaged planned economy such as lack of almost everything.

The fruits of the "mismanaged" economy might have something to do with the biggest most powerful and wealthiest country in the world doing everything it can to block any trade to and from the small island nation. Learn about a subject before you make comments on it.
 
cfalk
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:36 am

A friend of mine spend a holiday in Cuba a few months ago, and unfortunately got into a car accident. From what he told me of the hospital, it's not exactly the most hygenic and well-equipped of places, and he was in supposedly an elite hospital which could cater to foreigners.

Charles
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bezoar
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:43 am

I'm not familiar with this particular study, or by what means Unicef handles the numbers.

It would be interested to know if their statistics include only TERM pregnancies, and how the rate of miscarriages and spontaneous abortions compare.

The U.S. statistics likely include those born prematurely, including those arriving as early as 24 wks gestation. These are extremely high risk babies, and not something all countries widely attempt.

Other countries might count them as mid- and late-trimester miscarriages if they didn't live, thus making their survival stats look more impressive.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
B744F
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:03 am

Quoting Bezoar (Reply 19):
It would be interested to know if their statistics include only TERM pregnancies, and how the rate of miscarriages and spontaneous abortions compare.

I haven't looked at the stats lately, but I seriously doubt anyone can come close to Americas abortion rate. Weren't there a million abortions last year or something? that is unbelievable
 
Bofredrik
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:22 am

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 16):

Yes i do!:D
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:26 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 17):
The fruits of the "mismanaged" economy might have something to do with the biggest most powerful and wealthiest country in the world doing everything it can to block any trade to and from the small island nation.

The embargo only makes it too easy for Castro blame his own incompetence and failures of the awful regime (not much different I grew up in so I guess YOU are the one who needs to study the subject) he runs down there to secure the even most basic commoditiesand services.
He's trading happily with comrades from China so what's the problem?
 
soyuzavia
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:48 am

Here are figures comparing Cuba and US from unicef.org

Net primary school enrolment / attendance (%) (1996-2003)

96 (US 93)

Total adult literacy rate,2000

97 (unknown)

Life expectancy at birth (years), 2003

77 (77)

GNI per capita (US$), 2003

1170 (37610)

Annual no. of under-5 deaths (thousands),2003

1 (34)

Annual no. of births (thousands),2003

129 (4262)

Total population (thousands),2003

11300 (294043)

Infant mortality rate (under 1),2003

6 (7)

Under-5 mortality rate,2003

8 (8) -- in 1960 the figure for Cuba was 54, US was 30

Under-5 mortality rank

153 (157)

My opinion, these figures show that health care is one of the Cuban government's highest priorities. If it was as bad as some make out, the gap between Cuba and the US would be much higher, especially in key figures such as life expectancy. Having said that, if it is true that Cuba's health care system is substandard, these figures would also indicate that the US's healthcare system is also substandard? That is if we only use these figures.

Of course, there is more to such statistics. UNICEF says that 100% of the rural Australian population has access to 'improved drinking water sources' but this is not true as there are thousands of Aboriginal people, mainly concentrated in the NT and the Kimberley and Pilbara regions, who do not have such access

But on the surface of it, give Castro credit where some credit is due.
 
B744F
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:51 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 22):
The embargo only makes it too easy for Castro blame his own incompetence and failures of the awful regime (not much different I grew up in so I guess YOU are the one who needs to study the subject) he runs down there to secure the even most basic commoditiesand services.

Anybody who wants their economy tod well needs to work with the United States, calling it too easy to blame is ridiculous and a simple way of understanding economics.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 22):
He's trading happily with comrades from China so what's the problem?

China doesn't have everything to offer, if they did, they wouldn't be looking to purchase foreign corporations and expanding their capitalism
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:03 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 24):
Anybody who wants their economy tod well needs to work with the United States, calling it too easy to blame is ridiculous and a simple way of understanding economics.

I'm not disputing that. I think the embargo is shortsighted, ineffective and only helps Castro's propaganda to rally people behind him (Propaganda 101, chapter one: if you want to run a dictatorship, make sure you have a clear picture of the enemy, if you don't create one) and if did not bring him down by now it won't bring him down at all, he'll die before that.

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 23):
But on the surface of it, give Castro credit where some credit is due.

Russophile, what I don't understand is WHY those hunderds of thousands of Cubans risk their lives on rafts just to get the hell out of this Island of "Freedom"??? Please enlighten me.
 
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JeffM
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:04 am

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
Cuba's infant mortality rate has fallen to less than six deaths per thousand babies born, the lowest in Latin America.

..but more likely to die prematurely while in an overcrowded boat fleeing their country.  Wink
 
photopilot
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:22 am

Trust me, having spend much time in BOTH in the last few years, I would much sooner spend time in Havana then Washington DC.

It's a much safer city with far less daily hassles than wandering about in Washington.

I also don't see armed troops in Havana while in Washington they're everywhere.

I don's see anti-aircraft guns in Havana. I do in Washington.

I don't get stopped by the police in Havana and frisked. I did in Washington.

I've NEVER been asked for ID in Havana. I have been in Washington.

While I am no big fan of Castro and realise that Cuba MUST change, I am also disgusted with the bombastic rhetoric expelled against Cuba. Only when you have spent considerable time there, and realised what the true situation is, do you see how stupid the embargo is.

When there are MORE O.F.A.C. agents tracking American citizens who go to Cuba than Al Queda terrorists in the United States, you really have to get your priorities straight.
 
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JeffM
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:39 am

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 27):
It's a much safer city with far less daily hassles than wandering about in Washington.

I also don't see armed troops in Havana while in Washington they're everywhere.

I don's see anti-aircraft guns in Havana. I do in Washington.

I don't get stopped by the police in Havana and frisked. I did in Washington.

I've NEVER been asked for ID in Havana. I have been in Washington.

Therefore what? Make a point if you're going to. And this relates to the infant mortality rate how?
 
Superfly
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:48 am

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 16):
Nothing new from Bofredrik, he just loves to spew anti-American bullshit or whatever he can find to make the US look bad.

How is Bofredrick "anti-American" just because he stated some positive information about a country our government doesn't like?

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 16):
Grow up and realize no matter what your sick mind tells you, the US is a better place then Cuba. End of story.

I think you need to "grow up" and learn better comprehension skills.
Nowhere in Bofredricks' post does he mention that Cuba was a better place than the US?
Obviously the US is better than Cuba. Look at all of those the risk there lives to come here. Even though our immigration policy does encourage this sort of foolishness.


I guess we are brainwashed in the hating every thing about Cuba under Castro even if they do have a few shining examples.
As one of the few Americans that have actually been there, I see the anti-Castro rhetoric as just a bunch of useless right-wing political garbage.
Cuba under Castro may not be perfect, but it's not the hell-whole that many here think it is.
Bring back the Concorde
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:58 am

Castro and his government are by now well over the sell by date, but back in the 50s they did a good job of cleaning up the whorehouse of the US (with the government firmly in the hands of the mob) and the agriculture almost purely depending on huge cash crop plantations owned mainly by the United fruit Company (Chiquita Bananas today). The problem is that Castro and his clique didn't see that times are changing and that it has long ago been time to let a new generation take over. They remind me of old curmudgeons, who think that they are the only ones who can run the show.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Superfly
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:03 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 30):
They remind me of old curmudgeons, who think that they are the only ones who can run the show.

Very true.
I think that grooming a younger generation that has an understanding of the changing times yet still uphold the revolutionary spirit that over though those outsiders that raped there nation generations ago.
Bring back the Concorde
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:20 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
I guess we are brainwashed in the hating every thing about Cuba under Castro even if they do have a few shining examples.

Ok, so according to you one or two statistical figures - and I'm sure everybody knows what good 'ol Winston used to say about statistics - completely outweighs the sad fact that the coutry is a dictatorship blatantly ignoring human rights, arresting people for their opinions, etc., etc.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
I see the anti-Castro rhetoric as just a bunch of useless right-wing political garbage.

Too bad you can't appreciate the irony of the fact that you sound just like the newspaper headlines over here pre-1989. Or is it actually a compliment for you?
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:24 am

Quoting JeffM (Reply 28):
Therefore what? Make a point if you're going to.

This is how I interpreted Photopilot’s post:

He stated facts/observations from his travels to Cuba and DC. I used this as a primary source to come to my own conclusion.

Quoting JeffM (Reply 28):
And this relates to the infant mortality rate how?

This thread turned into USA vs. Cuba. He posted points and added dialogue about Castro and Cuba.

 spin 
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:33 am

L-410,

There is a big difference between Cuba and your country: Before 1938 your country was a quite wealthy industrialised country with a stable and educated population and a democraticaly elected government. Through both the German invasion and later the Soviet occupation you were thrown backwards.

Cuba, under the Batista government was extremely backward, with a huge uneducated rural population working on plantations owned by mentioned US companies, who more or less treated them like serfs and acted as if the country belonged to them. At the same time the cities were ruled by American Mafiosi, who used Cuba as a neutral ground, where even members of feuding gangs could meet. It was at the same time the destination for many Americans to do what they couldn't do at home, e.g. gambling and prostitution.
Batista had absolutely no interest in the welfare of his country, all he cared about was his Swiss bank account.
In so far Castro really introduced reforms in the 1960s and maybe 1970s which improved the living standards and education of Cuba's population. At first he even turned to the American government for aid, but got snubbed on behalf of the American fruit plantation companies he disowned to distribute the land.
Only then did he turn to the Soviet Union.

But both he an his government members never accepted that it is time for a new generation and that maybe the Cuban population has been long ago able to decide it's own fate. He reminds me of my grandfather who with age became more and more stubborn and reactionary.

I think the right time for a honourable resignation and free elections should have been in the 1970s.
But I don't think that the majority of Cubans want to have the old cronies of Batista and largescale landowners who fled to Miami back to govern them.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:56 am

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 16):
Nothing new from Bofredrik, he just loves to spew anti-American bullshit or whatever he can find to make the US look bad. Grow up and realize no matter what your sick mind tells you, the US is a better place then Cuba. End of story.

If Mexico makes better tortillas than the USA, then we are anti-America, so If Cuba has a lower mortality rat...then We are antiamerican? MMM I don't get it..Maybe if in the next Olympic games a Chilean guy wins gold and a USA guy wins silver they will shoot him for being anti-american? So if the US looks bad then we are anti-american...

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
I guess we are brainwashed in the hating every thing about Cuba under Castro even if they do have a few shining examples.
As one of the few Americans that have actually been there, I see the anti-Castro rhetoric as just a bunch of useless right-wing political garbage.
Cuba under Castro may not be perfect, but it's not the hell-whole that many here think it is.

This kind of posts is what makes A net such a good place, completely agree on this Superfly

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 32):
Ok, so according to you one or two statistical figures - and I'm sure everybody knows what good 'ol Winston used to say about statistics - completely outweighs the sad fact that the coutry is a dictatorship blatantly ignoring human rights, arresting people for their opinions, etc., etc.

No country is perfect, and you must know it, Cuba is FAR from perfect as all other countries, but some good things are to be found everywhere, because I believe Most human beings are good people, so there is "bad" guys everywhere, but labeling Cuba on those clueless facts make me laugh just 3 example:

Guantanamo and the patriot act Ver. 2.0 ( no human rights pal.)
Arresting people for their opinions...mmm did not you see the Anti war demostrations 2 years ago?
At least they dont have school shooting in Cuba or freeway road rage etc etc...

my point no country is a heaven/hell for EVERYONE.
Best regards TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:06 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 34):
Before 1938 your country was a quite wealthy industrialised country with a stable and educated population and a democraticaly elected government.

It was in the top 10 prior to WW2, yet you have plenty of those old communist bastards who suffer from these sentiments over the "old times".

The things may not been rosy in Cuba pre-1958 but do you think it's a relevant excuse for Castro's screw-ups and opression half a century later? As I said before the US foreign policy has been quite counterproductive one and in fact the embargo provided Castro with universal excuse and it's quite sad that this joke of a dictatorship totally dependent on lifeline of everything from the USSR survived the collapse of communism everywhere (well almost) else.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 34):
I think the right time for a honourable resignation and free elections should have been in the 1970s.



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 34):
But both he an his government members never accepted that it is time for a new generation and that maybe the Cuban population has been long ago able to decide it's own fate.

He's the same breed of gerontocrats as Husak, Honecker, Kadar or Ceausescu and he will never realize that the best time to leave passed decades ago. He might have certain personal charisma which makes certain people's panties wet but I guess charisma and ability to rally people is only precondition to succeed as a dictator.
Certainly not a reason for the EU to crawl up to his ass so blatantly just to get a free hand for their businesses to build Potemkin villages in Varadero and other tourism hotspots and rip off the locals (how different is that from the fruit companies) and provide Castro with desperately needed hard currency to stay in power. Yet again he abused the opprtunity when the attention of the media is focused on Egypt/UK/Iraq for another wave of arrests of his opponents. At least those who advocated lifting of the diplomatic embargo at the EU hearing just weeks ago look like total fools right now.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:25 am

Quoting Theredbaron (Reply 35):
because I believe Most human beings are good people, so there is "bad" guys everywhere

I never said Cubans are bad, but Castro certainly is a scumbag. What's your point?

Quoting Theredbaron (Reply 35):
Guantanamo and the patriot act Ver. 2.0 ( no human rights pal.)
Arresting people for their opinions...mmm did not you see the Anti war demostrations 2 years ago?
At least they dont have school shooting in Cuba or freeway road rage etc etc...

Although I don't see reason why on eath do you drag the US into the discussion about Cuba, nevertheless despite all negatives you have democratic institutions and safeguards such as competition of parties, free elections, rule of law, separation of powers and the clown from the white house will be gone in three years. for good. Do you see any of these very basics in Cuba? Same old bastard in power for 50 years and I only hope that not even you consider election turnout of 99.99999% as we witness in their funny, staged single-party "elections" as proof of democracy?
 
B744F
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:28 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 32):
completely outweighs the sad fact that the coutry is a dictatorship blatantly ignoring human rights, arresting people for their opinions, etc., etc.

And the US has never supported such horrible regimes, not even to this day...
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:36 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 38):
And the US has never supported such horrible regimes, not even to this day...

Same as redbaron, what does it have to do with Cuba? Soviets exported communism for decades, which is at least as evil as nazism but does it have to do anything with today's Castro and Cuba. Not really.
Why do you post if you can't stay on-topic?
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:18 pm

Turbolet you are getting too personal the point is that no country is completelly free of these atrocities, yes there are shades of grey I dont THINK for a .25 of a second that Cuba is a best choice over any G8 country (just to avoid any country naming).
But the post states that a international body says some statistics are better in Cuba than in the US, exactly as some other international organizations condemn Cuba for human rights violations, NO ONE IS DENYING THAT, you just take it too personal, yes Castro is a Scum Bag, but at least he has a country of guys who have a low possibility of dying because of bad health, diseases etc, and also a highly educated population, when Castro is gone those 2 things wont change, so it comes again to the main point here, even if Cuba is a country with lots of problems it doesnt make it all bad or the USA bad/better or whatever...so please take off your Uncle Sam Hat.

Regards
TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
luisde8cd
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:36 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):
Cuba under Castro may not be perfect, but it's not the hell-whole that many here think it is.


It is a hell... so many Cubans have died trying to flee the "Sea of Happiness". (Sea of Happiness= Term used by Venezuelan President to describe Cuba).

Quoting Theredbaron (Reply 40):
but at least he has a country of guys who have a ... a highly educated population

hahaha.... funny. The main core of Cuban education consists in brainwashing kids with communist propaganda and they have Castro as the center of a personality cult. Is that highly educated?

Looks like you are gona vote for Lopez Obrador in the upcoming Mexican elections, if that's the case then you are helping to begin the doom of your country, just like the people who voted for Chavez here back in 1999.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis

[Edited 2005-07-26 05:38:34]
 
Superfly
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:07 pm

Luisde8cd:
Perhaps our nation's liberal immigration laws in Cuban's favor once they get here plays a major part in so many dying to get here.
I find it interesting that the demographics of those Cubans crossing over in boats don't reflect Cuba's diverse population.
Many Afro-Cubans are turned back you know. There certainly wouldn't have been any sympathy by the conservative Americans and there friends in the scumbag Cuban mafia in South Florida had Elian been of African-Cuban decent.
Bring back the Concorde
 
KLM685
Posts: 1508
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:44 pm

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
Cuba's infant mortality rate has fallen to less than six deaths per thousand babies born, the lowest in Latin America.

This has been a well known fact for ages. So whatever your political ideals about Cuba is...some tests prove some VERY interesting facts which we should really pay attention and learn from them instead of only bashing for the need to bash something everybody else bashes.

Alonsou
KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
 
787
Posts: 271
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 11:57 pm

RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:49 pm

Great! Infant mortality is better (less deaths per 1000) in Cuba. Did you mention that the quality of life is a little less than the rest of the hemisphere? No you did not. You may have more live babies but the squalor will negate your quality of survival out of infancy. You live but live poorly across the board. (which is alright as life is good).

Next less than interesting figures please? This was a pathetic attempt to laud Cuba over the U.S. Pathetic on your part as it was seen for what it was.
787 Italia - Io, il comandante dell'aria
 
KLM685
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:51 pm

Quoting 787 (Reply 44):
Did you mention that the quality of life is a little less than the rest of the hemisphere? No you did not.

Still my point. Latin American Medicine faculties have this big exchange programs with Cuban Universities due to the high level they have in medicine.

so, whatever Cuba's problems are, statistics show one positive thing we should learn from instead of going again to Fidel, poverty, kick @$$ stuff
KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
 
cairo
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:08 pm

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
s low infant mortality rate compares to eight percent in Costa Rica and Chile, according to UNICEF figures.

Yes, and if Sweden were an American state, it would be the 6th poorest out of 50, and more than 40% of Swedish households would be classified as low income by US standards.*

All of the EU has a per capita GDP one-third less than America, with years of slower and even stagnant growth that only continues to increase the difference.*

We have all chosen our economic system and they all produce different results.

The Cubans have produced great infant mortality figures and deserve respect and congratulations. Maybe we could even learn something from them. The US has chosen instead to produce an economy with higher average overall wealth instead of ensuring a seemless social safety net.

It's just the different choices we've made in our economic systems. There are strengths and weaknesses in all models. The EU chooses a bigger social safety net, but sacrifices overall wealth to pay for it. The US system leaves many at the bottom with little way out.

The Cuban system has great infant health, but continues to be one of the poorest nations in the hemisphere. The US remains, by far, the number one destination for emigrants worldwide. People make their choices on where to live and our various economic systems speak for themselves.

Congratulations to Cuba. Instead of defending America, some of us should be asking what America is doing wrong when such an economic basket case can better America in even one metric.

Cairo


*Sources
See a major research report by Dr Fredrik Bergström, President of the Swedish Research Institute of Trade, and Mr Robert Gidehag, until recently Chief Economist of the same institute and now President of the Swedish Taxpayer's Association found here:
http://www.timbro.com/euvsusa/
also quoted in official EU research at:
http://europa.eu.int/
also see:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ee.html

[Edited 2005-07-26 08:12:48]
 
soyuzavia
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:11 pm

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 41):
hahaha.... funny. The main core of Cuban education consists in brainwashing kids with communist propaganda and they have Castro as the center of a personality cult. Is that highly educated?

And herein lies the proof that you are anti-Chavez, anti-Castro.

What is this 'personality cult' of Castro? There most certainly is not an engineered cult of personality in regards to Castro. Where are all the statues? Why isn't every building in Cuba plastered with a Castro poster? Where is his face on the Cuban peso notes? Where is the renaming of Cuban cities after him? Where is his name in the Cuban national anthem?

There is no cult of personality of Castro -- at least not one which is manufactured by himself, but rather by the public and foreigners.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 29):

I guess we are brainwashed in the hating every thing about Cuba under Castro even if they do have a few shining examples.

Unfortunately, the US public by and large is very much brainwashed in relation to Cuba and Castro.

Take this gem from 2003 for example

http://canberra.usembassy.gov/hyper/2003/0520/epf202.htm

Quoting GWB:
"Today Cubans around the world celebrate May 20, Cuban Independence Day. On behalf of the people of the United States, I send greetings to the Cuban community. My hope is for the Cuban people to soon enjoy the same rights and freedoms as we do. Dictatorships have no place in the Americas. May God bless the Cuban people who are struggling for freedom."

Very noble yes? Then scroll down to the last release

Quote:
The White House announced May 20 that President Bush will welcome President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan to Camp David, the presidential retreat, on June 24.

Fleischer called Pakistan "a stalwart ally in the war on terror." Bush and Musharraf plan to discuss regional and international issues and review means to further deepen and broaden bilateral relations between the United States and Pakistan, the White House spokesman said.

On the 20 May, Cuban Independence Day, the White House decries dictatorships, yet on the very same day the White House announces that the President will be meeting with the dictator of Pakistan to 'review means to further deepen and broaden bilateral relations'.

I haven't seen better scripted comedy before.
 
KLM685
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 12:41 pm

RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:19 pm

Quoting Cairo (Reply 46):

The Cubans have produced great infant mortality figures and deserve respect and congratulations. Maybe we could even learn something from them. The US has chosen instead to produce an economy with higher average overall wealth instead of ensuring a seemless social safety net.

Finally, someone sees it the same way I do. Thank you

But is exactly how this world is about. Castro or not Castro, we should not bash those statistics only cuz we don't like him or cuz it's Cuba. etc...

Not all is bad. Not that I support Castro but seriously...isn't that at least ONE positive thing not even the US or like the US has?


Alonsou
KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Better Child Health In Cuba Than In USA & L.A.

Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:25 pm

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 41):
It is a hell... so many Cubans have died trying to flee the "Sea of Happiness". (Sea of Happiness= Term used by Venezuelan President to describe Cuba)

Part of it might also be the result of "propaganda" like American TV shows and movies, which depict a completely unrealistic picture of the US ("The rich and the beautiful"etc.) . I know that my first ex wife was heavily influenced by Hollywood soap operas etc. and kind of imagined that everybody in the US was a millionaire and she would become one fast as well, with a big house in Beverley Hills. Boy, she got a big surprise when she finally arrived there (she is now living near Sacramento, Ca.), when she realised that you have to work damn hard for your money and, with bad luck, you can drop quite a bit (from a permanent, decently paid job in Germany with full health care, at first to McJobs and council housing in the US).

This "the money lies on the street, you just have to pick it up" attitude attracts quite a few people to the United States, who then get terribly disappointed, because they'll end up in lowly paid sh*t jobs, but will loose face if they return (like my ex, who burned all bridges, especially with her former boss in Germany before she left. I think in her case she might be better off if she took her American husband and moved to Germany, but them all her friends in Germany and the Philippines to whom she bragged to before will see her as a failure, a woman who couldn't make it in America).

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi

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