Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
tbar220
Topic Author
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:49 am

***

9/11 Commission Wants Atta Claims Pursued
By KIMBERLY HEFLING, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Members of the Sept. 11 commission want to know whether defense intelligence officials knew four of the hijackers were part of an al-Qaida cell but failed to tell law enforcement.

Lee Hamilton, co-chairman of the now-disbanded commission, said Tuesday that members of the panel could issue a statement by the end of the week after reviewing claims that officials had identified ringleader Mohamed Atta and three other hijackers.

"The 9/11 commission did not learn of any U.S. government knowledge prior to 9/11 of surveillance of Mohamed Atta or of his cell," said Hamilton, a former Democratic congressman from Indiana. "Had we learned of it, obviously it would've been a major focus of our investigation."

The commission's report on the terrorist attacks, released last year, traced government mistakes that allowed the hijackers to succeed. Among the problems the commission cited was a lack of coordination across intelligence agencies.

Rep. Curt Weldon (news, bio, voting record), a Pennsylvania Republican who serves as vice chairman of the House Armed Services and Homeland Security committees, said a classified military intelligence unit known as "Able Danger" identified the men in 1999.

That's an earlier link to al-Qaida than any previously disclosed intelligence about Atta if the information, which Weldon said came from multiple intelligence sources, is true.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050810/...;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

***

What do you think? Is this a failure on the intelligence communities? The Department of Defence?

IMO, its a sign that our government and intelligence agencies failed to do enough to stop the attacks.
NO URLS in signature
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:18 am

I saw that report. I'd like to get an answer not in order to crucify anyone, but to learn the lesson and be able to improve our security.

Although we know that many people are intent on the crucifixion.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:03 am

On one side, I am now and have been since 11Sep, a bit surprised by a certain sloppyness of the USA in regard to security and regulations. I remember the formalities I in 1972 had to go through to go to London for a three months English language school-course. Had I not appeared in the school for more than a week, the authorities would have been notified with clear results.
-
At the other hand, it in hindsight now is easy to speak about "mistakes". What now is mistakes in reality was just business as usual. Even people who had heard some hints given by some people did NOT really expect to happen what then finally DID happen. I would strongly advise against witch-hunt actions.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:23 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter):
its a sign that our government and intelligence agencies failed to do enough to stop the attacks.

TBar - I'm sure that's an understatement. I'm quite certain our government was as complacent as the population - and just as blind . . . remember the NIMBY attitude.

I think our intelligence operations were flawed before and after 9/11 . . . I think they are still flawed . . . in an effort to reinvent the wheel in the intelligence community I believe we've created yet another level of needless bureaucracy that will hamper our effectiveness even more . . .

Afterall, it means more levels of government bullshit supervisors and overseers to get through before someone can act on the information - which is part of the reason we (the US) got caught with our knickers around our ankles on 9/11 . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:34 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 1):
I saw that report. I'd like to get an answer not in order to crucify anyone, but to learn the lesson and be able to improve our security.

Although we know that many people are intent on the crucifixion.

Not on this one. Hell, too many people could be crucified on this one, but we're long past that. I concur with you, Ian, 100% Let's find out where the lapses were, patch 'em up,and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 2):
On one side, I am now and have been since 11Sep, a bit surprised by a certain sloppyness of the USA in regard to security and regulations.

I read you 2nd paragraph. Human nature is to close the barn door after the horses are all out, if you get my meaning. All too often, it's very difficult, if not impossible, to see the flaws in any system, until someone burns your. Aviation mishaps are a good example to throw out as an example. It's only when you get burned, you see the gap.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6649
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:19 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4):
All too often, it's very difficult, if not impossible, to see the flaws in any system, until someone burns your.

It's not all that impossibe to see flaws in the system when Janet Reno's (whose you Justice Secretary) right-hand manwoman, Jamie Gorelick, issued a 4-page directive back in March of 1995 to FBI Director Louis Freeh and Mary Jo White, the New York-based U.S. attorney investigating the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, prohibiting the FBI and CIA to shere information. This memo is key element that prohibited the the 2 agencies from connecting the dots.
Gorelicks Wall
An investigation is long overdue. Quoted from the below article:
Rep. Curt Weldon, R-Pa. and vice chairman of the House Armed Services and Homeland Security committees, said Tuesday the men were identified in 1999 by a classified military intelligence unit known as "Able Danger." If true, that's an earlier link to al-Qaeda than any previously disclosed intelligence about Atta
Sign On San Diego news article

[Edited 2005-08-11 19:22:58]
Made from jets!
 
B744F
Posts: 2927
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:52 pm

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:04 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
issued a 4-page directive back in March of 1995 to FBI Director Louis Freeh and Mary Jo White, the New York-based U.S. attorney investigating the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, prohibiting the FBI and CIA to shere information.

Where do you see that?

"Ms. Gorelick ordered Mr. Freeh and Ms. White to follow information-sharing procedures that "go beyond what is legally required," in order to avoid "any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance" that the Justice Department was using Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrants, instead of ordinary criminal investigative procedures, in an effort to undermine the civil liberties of terrorism suspects."

So basically they should have been allowed to break the law, and the Clinton attack dogs would have had zero problems with this? They crippled his administration over a BJ, imagine if they found out he wanted the departments to go way beyond the rights of everyone protected under the Constitution!

Anyway I think that is a splendid way to shift the blame onto someone else even though all signs lead to incompetence by the Bush administration once the information came out about OBL's ties to the USS Cole bombing. Bush did absolutely nothing to continue the harassment of Osama, while whenever Clinton did something, you could hear the cries of wag the dog for weeks.
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:15 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 6):
though all signs lead to incompetence by the Bush administration

We Agree on something!?!?!  faint 
This space intentionally left blank
 
air2gxs
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 1:29 pm

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:09 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 6):
Where do you see that?

Did you read the whole editorial?

The article says that the measures imposed by Gorelick (and the Clinton administration) go beyond what was necessary in imposing the restrictions.

"But Ms. Gorelick's memo clearly indicated that the Clinton administration had decided as a matter of policy to go even beyond the law's already stringent requirements in order to further choke off information sharing. "

"Ms. Gorelick has been among the most partisan and aggressive Democratic panel members in questioning the anti-terror efforts of the Bush administration. The nation deserves a full accounting from Ms. Gorelick of why the Clinton administration felt it necessary to go the extra mile in order to hamper the capability of law enforcement and intelligence agents to talk to one another."

The Gorelick memo in all probability caused the DOD to withhold information from law enforcement. Where was the breakdown? It was with the Clinton Administration. Unfortunately we suffered for their failures. Don't get me wrong, the Bush Administration wasn't clean, but the Clinton Administration had the first shots at OBL and Atta, and failed to take them.
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:17 am

Quoting Air2gxs (Reply 8):
Clinton Administration had the first shots at OBL

Let's see, before 9/11 Bush had fired how many tommahawks @ OBL?
This space intentionally left blank
 
air2gxs
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 1:29 pm

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:26 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 9):
Let's see, before 9/11 Bush had fired how many tommahawks @ OBL?

Ahh, so Bush should have launched a unilateral attack against OBL? Yeah, that would have gone over well with the folks on the other side of the aisle. Also, Bush didn't have to launch Tomahawks to get the headlines away from below his beltline.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:30 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 9):
Let's see, before 9/11 Bush had fired how many tommahawks @ OBL?

I almost regret doing this - I can hear the liberal whiners now, "Just had to bring Clinton into this huh". And I usually make a practice of NOT doing this - but, TedT, one good dig deserves another . . . .

So . . .

Your question, quoted above, would be moot had you hero Clinton taken OBL from the Yemenis when he was offered . . . . which ever time he was offered, that can your call . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
dan-air
Posts: 600
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 1999 6:13 am

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:42 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
Your question, quoted above, would be moot had you hero Clinton taken OBL from the Yemenis when he was offered . . . . which ever time he was offered, that can your call . . .

Psst!!! ANC - it was Sudan that offered OBL to Clinton. On a silver platter. Or was it the Saudis? Geez, I can't keep up with the discredited informants...or was it Qatar?

Sheesh! How on earth could we have expected the Bush admin's efforts to locate and capture OBL between inauguration and 9/11 to be successful? I mean, given that Clinton could have had OBL for the asking, how is it even possible that he was able to evade the scrutiny of the incoming Bush administration - an investigation of such intensity that President Bush was forced to testify to the 9/11 commission in private and not under oath, and in the company of the vice-president.

Oh, and I heard that Hillary was in the vicinity of Langley on 9/10/01. Who can say that it wasn't she that prevented F-16's being scrambled sooner than they were?
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:44 am

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 12):
Psst!!! ANC - it was Sudan that offered OBL to Clinton. On a silver platter. Or was it the Saudis? Geez, I can't keep up with the discredited informants...or was it Qatar?

No matter, the point is clear . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6649
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:07 pm

Quoting Dan-Air (Reply 12):
Psst!!! ANC - it was Sudan that offered OBL to Clinton

PSST!!Dan-Air, S-F-B, It was this guy that negotiated OBL being handed over, but Clinton turned it down. His reason was because, as he put it, "there wouldn't be enough evidence to him. He must have said while Monica was under the desk.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 9):
Let's see, before 9/11 Bush had fired how many tommahawks @ OBL?

Who realy put their credit on the line in going after him.

Quoting B744F (Reply 6):
Where do you see that?

In the second paragraph
On Tuesday, Attorney General John Ashcroft declassified a four-page directive sent by Ms. Gorelick (the No. 2 official in the Clinton Justice Department) on March 4, 1995, to FBI Director Louis Freeh and Mary Jo White, the New York-based U.S. attorney investigating the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. In the memo, Ms. Gorelick ordered Mr. Freeh and Ms. White to follow information-sharing procedures that "go beyond what is legally required," in order to avoid "any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance"
So, to Gorelick, (a'hem Clinton) image is everything.
Made from jets!
 
slider
Posts: 7698
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:06 pm

Able Danger could rock the pillars of D.C. While I too am not interested in a pound of flesh, per se, the truth is that there hasn't been a reckoning of thing.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4):
Hell, too many people could be crucified on this one, but we're long past that.

I disagree we're past it--given the number of players involved--some of whom are still in positions of power and others (Hillary) who will SEEK power, it is very germane. We're not past it, one bit.

We haven't learned from the past and may therefore be doomed to repeat it. Adding to this is the fact our current president is inept in terms of true national security measures as well.
 
dan-air
Posts: 600
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 1999 6:13 am

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:15 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 14):
PSST!!Dan-Air, S-F-B, It was this guy that negotiated OBL being handed over, but Clinton turned it down. His reason was because, as he put it, "there wouldn't be enough evidence to him. He must have said while Monica was under the desk.

A Fox News "contributor"? That's your idea of a credible source? Try again.

You guys flail around trying to defend the indefensible, while ignoring the 900lb gorilla in the room - Bush was asleep at the switch. Let me hear your thoughts on why you think it was reasonable for the president to a) initially refuse to testify before the 9/11 commission and b) when that became politically awkward insisted that his testimony be private and not under oath - AND WITH THE PRESIDENT ACCOMPANIED BY THE VICE PRESIDENT. Tell me - are these the actions of a man that has nothing to hide? I think not.

How many blunders does Bush have to make before you guys give it up and join the rest of us that are demanding he be held accountable? When will you put the country ahead of party?
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6649
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Sat Aug 13, 2005 1:20 am

OBL negotiation happened before Foxnews was in existance. What does that have anything to do with? So, if he was at CNN or MSNBC, he would have more credibilty. Makes real sense.
Made from jets!
 
B744F
Posts: 2927
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:52 pm

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:53 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 14):
In the memo, Ms. Gorelick ordered Mr. Freeh and Ms. White to follow information-sharing procedures that "go beyond what is legally required," in order to avoid "any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance"

I know, I quoted that same paragraph, still don't see anything horrible about it, she said to follow procedures that go beyond what is legally required

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
OBL negotiation happened before Foxnews was in existance. What does that have anything to do with? So, if he was at CNN or MSNBC, he would have more credibilty. Makes real sense.

It isn't a little fishy that the "only" source turns out to work for Faux News when they start? Looks like he had some friends in high places who thanked him for the information (that has no proof)
 
air2gxs
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 1:29 pm

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:10 pm

Quoting B744F (Reply 18):
I know, I quoted that same paragraph, still don't see anything horrible about it, she said to follow procedures that go beyond what is legally required

Apparently you just don't get it. Gorelick's memo had the agencies impose GREATER restrictions on information sharing than the law required. Her memo prevented the open, or at least a less restrictive, flow of information. Her memo probably prevented the FBI from interrogating Atta.

Gorelick is a hypocrite, sitting on the commission and interrogating people. She should have been interviewed herself. She was one of the main architects of "the wall" between intelligence agencies.
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6649
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: Did The DOD Know About Atta?

Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:48 am

Quoting B744F (Reply 18):
It isn't a little fishy that the "only" source turns out to work for Faux News when they start?

They start there, and then casually end up on CNN and the others like some backpage acknowlegment.
Made from jets!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ArchGuy1, System07 and 89 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos