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KLMA330
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Thoughts On Bullfighting

Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:56 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4155610.stm

This prompted me to wonder your thoughts and feelings on this "sport".

Billy  Smile
 
AGM114L
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:59 am

If cattle ate humans, I would like to have an opportunity to kill a cow before I'm ground up.

[Edited 2005-08-17 00:00:29]
 
Delta767300ER
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:41 am

Its a fun sport to watch. It is also very dangerous. I wouldnt do it. I would rather do roping or something like that.

-Delta767300ER
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:26 pm

I have been to corridas in Spain and Mexico y Me Gusta!! Most people prefer to go the market wearing their leather shoes to pick up cellophane wrapped meat for the BBQ. I ran (el encierro) in Pamplona in 2003(I have some great shots if anyone is interested) and went to the corrida that afternoon. I sat in the top shaded section of the Plaza del Torros with mostly locals. They passed around sandwiches and wine for everyone to consume. They carried the morning papers which had the day's bulls and stats. With every bull that came out, it was discussed how powerful and beautiful and graceful they were. One bull hit the matador in the arm and drew blood to shouts of joy. Every bull was applauded and respected with glee from every member of the audience. The corridas are extremely violent and not for everyone, but I recognized the symbolism of vitality as well as our own temporal existence in each fight-and it exhilarates me. The bulls are taken to the butcher afterwards and sold for consumption. Native Americans used to hold ceremonies for their kills and paint depictions of them to respect the animal's soul. To all of the critics I would ask- When was the last time you saw an animal you consumed? When was the last time you saw their power and vitality or their ability to defend themselves as god made them? When was the last time that you respected the animals that is your sustenance and the reason that you are alive?

[Edited 2005-08-17 07:33:09]
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:29 pm

Quoting KLMA330 (Thread starter):
This prompted me to wonder your thoughts and feelings on this "sport".



Quoting AGM114L (Reply 1):
Its a fun sport to watch

it's not a sport, or at least it's not considered as such in Spain. I wouldn't know how to define it though, however, in Spain, it's closer to being Art rather than sport  Smile

regards
 
AR1300
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:45 pm

Quoting KLMA330 (Thread starter):
Thoughts On Bullfighting

Barbaric and gayish.

Mike
 
1aMLA
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:14 pm

It's sad like any other sport/game etc etc involving animals that are put through pain for the amusement of people. I just enjoy it when the people involved get gored and bulls horn gets shuved up there ass.
But that's just my opinion.
 
lewis
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:05 pm

Its pointless and barbaric. Killing animals for the entertainment of the crowd is something that for some reason has remained after so many years. As cockfights and dogfights are illegal in all civilised countries, so should bullfighting be. I always feel apathy watching all these @sses involved getting injured by bulls, I think they deserve it.
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:55 am

Quoting Lewis (Reply 7):
As cockfights and dogfights are illegal in all civilised countries, so should bullfighting be.

Bullfighting with the above mentioned cannot be compared, because in bullfighting it's between the bull and the bullfighter, not between two bulls  Smile

In any case, it is very hard for a person that does not live or has ever lived in a country where bull fighting is present (mostly Spain and Mexico) to understand how they see it.
 
KLMA330
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:15 am

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 8):
In any case, it is very hard for a person that does not live or has ever lived in a country where bull fighting is present (mostly Spain and Mexico) to understand how they see it.

Thank God for that, at least for me
 
lowrider
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:54 am

Not really my bag, but if you want it in your country, have at it. I recognize a certain level of artistry, ceremony, and tradition that goes along with it, but view it as an excess I have no interest in indulging in.
 
FlyingTexan
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Bull Fighting Poses A Serious Risk

Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:05 am

Bull fighting poses a serious risk to one’s well being.

 
corocks
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:22 pm

I went in Spain a few years back, and thought it was okay. I kept thinking that they should make it fair for the bulls, and let them fight the bullfighters without having already been stabbed many times by the guys on the horses with the long pikes. I think a fair fight would be much more entertaining!
 
ryanb741
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:37 pm

Well I am ambivalent towards it - what made me laugh is a conversation I had last year with some Brits who were against bullfighting but were in favour of fox hunting!

By far the most violent sport I've seen involving animals is cock (rooster!) fighting. Nasty stuff - saw it in Thailand
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:52 pm

Quoting Ryanb741 (Reply 13):
Well I am ambivalent towards it - what made me laugh is a conversation I had last year with some Brits who were against bullfighting but were in favour of fox hunting!

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 
 
Pyrex
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:17 pm

There are things I like about my country, things I don't, things I am proud about but very few things I am ashamed of. The fact that bullfights still exist in my country (although unpopular among most segments of the population) is something that truly ashames me.

I have heard every argument possible in defense of bullfighting (tradition, etc...) and every single one of them is easily rebutable. Yes I do eat meat and wear leather shoes but I do not go to the slaughterhouse to cheer the butcher and throw him roses. There is a difference between eating an animal and enjoying its torture and death.

And for people who say bullfights and dogfights aren't the same thing you are correct, a dog stands much better chances than a bull (if you want proof just look at the statistics).

All in all, it is a barbaric custom that should be banned.

Greetings,

Miguel
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:53 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 15):
Yes I do eat meat and wear leather shoes but I do not go to the slaughterhouse to cheer the butcher and throw him roses.

I suppose that you think that it is better not to think about where your food comes from? Better that you needn't be bothered with the bloody details that happens with every morsel of meat that you consume? Have you seen that video of KFC chicken coups recently? As long as you get what you want without any respect or thoughts to the animal, then I guess at least you are happy. Well, they do say that ignorance is bliss.
 
AGC525
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:15 pm

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 3):
To all of the critics I would ask- When was the last time you saw an animal you consumed? When was the last time you saw their power and vitality or their ability to defend themselves as god made them? When was the last time that you respected the animals that is your sustenance and the reason that you are alive?

Everytime I go hunting.

But I don't corral the animal in a closed space and stab it till it dies a slow painful death. If you want to make it a sport take your sword and go out into an open field and find a wild Bull and attempt to kill it.
 
Toulouse
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:49 pm

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 10):
Not really my bag, but if you want it in your country, have at it. I recognize a certain level of artistry, ceremony, and tradition that goes along with it, but view it as an excess I have no interest in indulging in.

Very well put Lowrider. I lived in Spain for many years and only once went to a bullfight. The atmosphere was wonderful (the crowd, the brass band, people passing sangria and wine around). Yet, the actual spectacle was not MY cup of tea.

This is a very difficult subject, and as EZEIZA said, I really don't believe one can eeven start to understand this show/event if you have never lived in the country (not talking about a two week holiday on the Costa del Sol and a visit to the local bullring). Personnally, I do not like bullfighting and yes I admit it is certainly on first sight completely barbaric, but there is more to it than that. What I can't stand are people from abroad who give out about bullfighting without having ever seen one, liven in the country and reading up on the tradictional aspect of this event. That said (and possible somewhat to my relief) I know that there are many people in Spain (especially the younger generations) who have the same feelings as Pyrex. Also the further north you go in Spain, the less bullfighting there is. As a foreigner, even though I lived in Spain for many years, speak the language fluently and am married to a Spanish woman, I would never quickly denounce this very old part of their culture and that of certain other countries. Yet I do think bullfighting's days are counted.
That's my 2 cents anyway.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:50 pm

I have been to one bullfight in Mexico.

Although most would consider bullfighting a barbaric 'sport' (myself included) which should have no place in a civilised country, I am almost ashamed to admit that I did enjoy the experience. It's hard not to be caught up in the atmosphere and pageantry of the occasion. That said, in no way do I condone or approve of it.

I seriously doubt I will ever attend another, but I can express my opinions from the viewpoint of having at least experienced it.
 
MADtoCAE
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:54 pm

Quoting AGM114L (Reply 1):
If cattle ate humans, I would like to have an opportunity to kill a cow before I'm ground up.

I agree 100%
Its a very dangerous sport, and the "toreros" risk a lot when bullfighting.
I prefer watching the corridas(I dont run), better to watch in my opinion.
In the corridas there are more injuries lately because of tourists running in the corridas and being a danger to other people, sometimes they dont even know where the bulls are going to come from...
 
Evan767
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:41 am

I thought I had to see it when I visited Madrid. It was an O.K. "sport". But what made me feel alright was that I heard the meat of the bull was donated to starving children? Can someone back me up on this? I also remember the seats being very uncomfortable as we were sitting on concrete and people were squished all around us.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Sat Aug 27, 2005 6:33 am

First of all, it is not a sport, nor is it a particularly dangerous activity (just look at the statistics if you want). And for those who think it is honorable for the bull, even if he is the bravest of all and kills all the bullfighters that face him (which I admit is something I would like to watch) it is still slaughtered. So it is worthless.

Just because it is "traditional" doesn't make it right. And I insist there is a world of difference between eating an animal and slowly watching it bleed to death. It is torture pure and simple and if I did it to any other animal I would be arrested (even in Spain).
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:34 pm

Quoting AGC525 (Reply 17):
Everytime I go hunting.

But I don't corral the animal in a closed space and stab it till it dies a slow painful death.

I don't believe that we can quantify which death is better. We do not know what the animal feels.
Do you hunt with a knife or sword to give the animals a fair chance to get a piece of you? Or is it with a gun from a safe several hundred feet or yards? Judging how other countries kill their animals when your own method could be considered questionable is patronizing. Yes, I have hunted and it is not at all very difficult.
75% of the bulls I've watched still have a lot energy and fight before they are killed. The final stab with the sword is a lunge through the shoulder blades that usually kills the bull immediatedly. (The matador has to do this dangerousely between the bulls horns) If the matador is a bad one and the bull doesn't die right away, his assistants come out and cut it's throat relatively quickly. I have seen plenty of hunters not only take bad shots that leave the animal alive to suffer, I have also seen some deliberately let the animal suffer before they finish them. I don't judge responsible hunters and I don't believe that we should judge other country's cultures either, especially when it is just a different way of doing what we do every day.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:28 pm

Just because the bull dies "immediately" doesn't mean the whole point of a bullfight is to make the animal suffer for as long as possible.
 
NoUFO
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:48 pm

Quoting Lewis (Reply 7):
Its pointless and barbaric. Killing animals for the entertainment of the crowd is something that for some reason has remained after so many years. As cockfights and dogfights are illegal in all civilised countries, so should bullfighting be. I always feel apathy watching all these @sses involved getting injured by bulls, I think they deserve it.

That was nice to read. Exactly my opinion, thank you.
 
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EZEIZA
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:46 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 15):
Yes I do eat meat and wear leather shoes but I do not go to the slaughterhouse to cheer the butcher and throw him roses. There is a difference between eating an animal and enjoying its torture and death

i would understand your point if you only used meat as food, but leather shoes? How can you say that bullfighting is barbaric because it makes a crowd enjoy an animal dying and then say that wearing leather shoes is different? Aren't leather shoes "entertainment" as well, since you don't really need them?

regards
 
airbuzz
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RE: Thoughts On Bullfighting

Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:11 am

Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 2):
Its a fun sport to watch. It is also very dangerous. I wouldnt do it. I would rather do roping or something like that.

Please don't call it sport. This is not a sport and defining it so is an insult for every athlete.

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