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oly720man
Posts: 5813
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:14 pm

Quoting Seb146 (Thread starter):
sex was given to us for creation and not necissarily a means to keep the same opposite gender partner forever

Sex is a biological function to make babies, it's just had the misfortune to get mixed up with emotions and social and religious ideologies and thoughts.

If there was no god/religion, would homosexuality (since it cropped up earlier) always be considered "unnatural" or would there still be the usual range of feelings from acceptance through indifference to hatred of the sort that saw a gay man beaten to death in London over the weekend?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4346846.stm

What about bisexuality? Sex with children?

Animals?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm.../localnews/2002384648_farm16m.html

Vacuum Cleaners and other household objects?

What is sex all about? Something a lot more complicated than a few do and don't words in a scripture? Or has it evolved since the good old days??
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
mrniji
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:49 pm

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 50):
Sex is a biological function to make babies, it's just had the misfortune to get mixed up with emotions and social and religious ideologies and thoughts.

 bigthumbsup  - I do not see any "misfortune" here, but the positive sides.. hey. it's all about disrational emotions  Wink
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
HAJFlyer
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:34 pm

RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:14 pm

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 49):
I'm not one to judge anyone's actions or opinions.

I wish everyone discussing these rather controversial topics on a.net were so mature as to express their opinion without condemning those how disagree.

 bigthumbsup 
 
RedDragon
Posts: 1096
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:29 pm

Quoting Redngold (Reply 9):
I actually thought this thread might be about a more general "sexuality" instead of just homosexuality... but I guess that's what I should expect from past history. It's too bad that your topic line doesn't accurately reflect the sliver of sexuality that you're actually addressing.

Although I disagree with the sentiment, Redngold is right in that sexual orientation is a subset of sexuality as a whole. We never do seem to have discussions about the areas of sexuality other than orientation or related issues such as abortion.

Quoting Redngold (Reply 9):
You are also confusing "gender" with "biological genotype."

Confusing gender with sex (the noun), then? See the usage note here for a helpful guide.

Quoting Redngold (Reply 9):
There is no place in the Bible that encourages or blesses homosexual relationships. There are many places that condemn homosexual behavior.

There is no place in the Bible that encourages or blesses homosexual relationships. There are a small number of debatable places in the Bible that condemn unspecific homosexual behaviour, and a small number more that condemn specified homosexual behaviour corresponding to the equivalent, condemned heterosexual behaviour.

Quoting Redngold (Reply 13):
Sexuality can be expressed and experienced without intercourse.

Indeed it can. (See the first point.)

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 14):
[story of the useless boob

Ha ha! Excellent  thumbsup 

Quoting KROC (Reply 20):
My "sterilized" pets still have Gender.

I'd rather say that your sterilised pets still have sex (the noun), and a certain retention of gender influenced by the remaining amounts of hormones post-sterilisation. (I'm not entirely sure what happens regarding hormonal influences after sterilisation, as you can probably tell.) But the sentiment is definitely correct.

Quoting Oneworldman (Reply 31):
[Rev. Dr. Greg Jones' dissertation (thesis?)]

Whilst I sympathise with the sentiment this unknown guy is trying to profess, I don't hold much stock in his explanation - probably because it's not written particularly well.

Quoting cathedralofhope.com (Reply 33):
"What does the Bible really say about homosexuality? Actually, very little. Most significantly, Jesus said nothing at all. Considering the relatively small amount of attention the Bible pays to the subject, we must ask ourselves why this is such a volatile issue. Other subjects about which the scriptures say a great deal (e.g. judgment, pride, hypocrisy) receive much less passionate attention. "

Indeed.

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 35):
http://www.christianadvice.net/sexuality.htm

Ahh, another opinion- and interpretation-free link from TACA. I find it amusing that the link avoids answering a couple of its own questions.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 48):
That is one flaw of the English language. We have no word for a genderless being except "it."

Indeed; this is really the only reason God is conventionally referred to with He.

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 50):
Sex is a biological function to make babies, it's just had the misfortune to get mixed up with emotions and social and religious ideologies and thoughts.

Whilst I'd agree that the mechanics of sexual intercourse are centred around procreation (obviously), I'm not so sure about the plethora of pleasurable extras that surely aren't strictly necessary to ensure we make enough babies. After all, most animals don't apparently have sex just for the fun of it, do they?

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 50):
If there was no god/religion, would homosexuality (since it cropped up earlier) always be considered "unnatural" or would there still be the usual range of feelings?

Interesting question. However, following my view that historical opposition to non-heterosexuality is due to humans with an agenda to push rather than God Himself (sic), I'd probably have to answer "yes, unfortunately".

...As for the question of the thread opener itself, I'd have to say that the theory posed is a bit far stretched in its attempts at justification. It's spawned a good discussion, though  Smile

Rich
 
TACAA320
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:56 pm

Quoting RedDragon (Reply 53):
I find it amusing that the link avoids answering a couple of its own questions.

Which ones?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
mt99
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:05 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 54):
Which ones?



Quoting RedDragon (Reply 53):
Ahh, another opinion- and interpretation-free link from TACA. I find it amusing that the link avoids answering a couple of its own questions.

Save your keystrokes. He left me hanging in a past thread. He never adressed some point he said he would.
Step into my office, baby
 
TACAA320
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:39 am

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 55):
He left me hanging in a past thread.

When?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
HAJFlyer
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:34 pm

RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:46 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 54):
Which ones?



Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 56):
When?

I have to side with Mt99 here; it seems to me as well that whenever you get yourself into a tight spot, you tend to answer with cryptic remarks that no one besides yourself can decipher.
 
TACAA320
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:30 am

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 57):
you tend to answer with cryptic remarks that no one besides yourself can decipher.

That's apparently your problem and Mt99. Period.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
mt99
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:56 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 56):
When?

"Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 118):
Don't worry. The answer is yes.

Ok.. Ill keep checking until you reply then. "

In the following thread:

https://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/955633/

I know you did not miss that, beacuse you posted something after

---------

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 58):
That's apparently your problem and Mt99. Period.

Period? Once again, ending conversations that you cant seem to win?

Or are you telling us that you just got your period, cause it sounds like you have a bad case of male PMS.
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oneworldman
Posts: 178
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:20 am

Quoting RedDragon (Reply 53):
Quoting Oneworldman (Reply 31):
[Rev. Dr. Greg Jones' dissertation (thesis?)]

Whilst I sympathise with the sentiment this unknown guy is trying to profess, I don't hold much stock in his explanation - probably because it's not written particularly well.

Hmmm... I am thinking that either you are a Professor at Oxford, (but you being the tender age of 21-25, I doubt it), or you simply did not understand what was written ( I am leaning more towards this explanation).

The Judging committee at Princeton University happens to disagree with you. They thought it was very well written. Written so well infact that the Rev. Dr. Jones, graduated with High honors.
Querer es poder.
 
TACAA320
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:12 am

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 59):

I know you did not miss that, beacuse[sic] you posted something after

You are giving me the reason.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 59):
Period? Once again, ending conversations that you cant seem to win?

Is this a competition? Is about to win or about to discuss?
I think is the second, and there is no judge.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
mt99
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:28 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 61):
You are giving me the reason.

Ok fine. You can use the excuse i gave you. Does that mean that you will be addressing the points in that thread and on this one?

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 61):
Is about to win or about to discuss?
I think is the second, and there is no judge.

Since you like to correct my spelling (I really should be more carefull - i apologize), ill be a good sport too and help you out. You should try correcting your grammar. I am assuming what you meant to say was:

"Is it about winning or discussing?"

Anywho.. Sure it is about discussing, but saying things like "Period" and cutting & pasting links with no input from you closes the very discussion that you are refering too.

That, my Costa Rican friend.. is the whole point! You don't discuss. People ask to expand on your enlighted thoughts.. yet you just say "period".

Dont leave us in the Dark! We want to know the real you... We are trying!
Step into my office, baby
 
TACAA320
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:49 am

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 62):
"Is it about winning or discussing?"

Right! And thanks for the corrections. The second [discussing]IS the correct one.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 62):
You don't discuss

Two questions: What? and Why?
First: We discussed this theme to death.
Second: We never reached a conclusion.
Third: Every time the forum was converted into a war zone.

I prefer that you "enlighten" us about "Christianity and Sexuality". I prefer to remain in the peace of other forums.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 62):
You don't discuss.

As well as you. I don't see a single post from you enlighting us about this theme.

[Edited 2005-10-17 23:00:19]
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
mt99
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:05 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 63):
I prefer to remain in the peace of other forums.

What does that mean? If you'd prefer to say it in spanish....please do so.

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 63):
First: We discussed this theme to death before.
Second: We never reached a conclusion.
Third: Every time the forum was converted into a war zone.

I would like clear answers from you. I am not backing down. Never reached a conclusion beacuse you back down.

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 63):
I prefer that you "enlighten" us about "Christianity and Sexuality".

Ok. Here it goes.

The funny thing is that, for me it is not about sexuality per se. It is again the fact that "christianity" has double standards in regards to sexuality.

"Hetero blow jobs are sacred,
Gay blow jobs are evil."

[paraphrasing Dan Savage]

If "religion" picks a stance on something.. great!.. apply it equally to everyone.
Step into my office, baby
 
jafa39
Posts: 4320
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:08 am

My 2 cents worth....read up on Sodom and Gomorrah, I think it explains the biblical viewpoint HOWEVER!!! That is just an observation and don't get all fired up at me as I am not a religious fundamentalist and i do believe that people get too tangled up wth religion as a tool for jsutification or oppression.

I believe (and i was brought up as Church of England) that you should just live your life, if you feel you can stand up at the end of your days and fully justify everything you have done or apologise for the shitty things you did, then you're halfway to being an Ok person, regardless of whether you are Christian, Muslim, Mormon, Hindu, Goth, Gay, Straight or just plain weird.

But please don't offload all responsibilty for your actions to your God (God told me to kill the puppies!) cos that isn't what Gods are about, the concept of a higher power is to keep us all real.

The real problem today is that not enough people reflect on this scenario, they just go "me, me, me, me, me, me" and point the finger at everyone but themselves.
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
TACAA320
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:14 am

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 64):
Never reached a conclusion beacuse[sic] you back down.

I'm not the only one in this forum.
"Man becomes man only by his intelligence, but he is man only by his heart.
Henri Frederic Amiel"

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 64):
If you'd prefer to say it in spanish....please do so.

I prefer if you buy a dictionary.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
mt99
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:21 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 66):
I prefer if you buy a dictionary

See. You always do that. You asked for my opinion on "Christianity and Sexuality"". I gave it to you, you ignored it. You back away, instead you choose to respond like my 12 year old niece would. And she is not even a lawyer!
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HAJFlyer
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:21 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 65):
I believe (and i was brought up as Church of England) that you should just live your life, if you feel you can stand up at the end of your days and fully justify everything you have done or apologise for the shitty things you did, then you're halfway to being an Ok person, regardless of whether you are Christian, Muslim, Mormon, Hindu, Goth, Gay, Straight or just plain weird.

Very well said Jafa39.  checkmark 

The fact that someone is trying hard to be a decent, courteous, friendly individual willing to help others in need is MUCH more important than a perfect attendance record at a place of worship or being able to recite passages of the bible or koran from memory.
 
jafa39
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:30 am

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 68):
The fact that someone is trying hard to be a decent, courteous, friendly individual willing to help others in need is MUCH more important than a perfect attendance record at a place of worship or being able to recite passages of the bible or koran from memory.

Spot on mate! I wish my new mother-in-law could get her head round that one!!
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
TACAA320
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:40 am

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 67):
And she is not even a lawyer!

Nor I have 12.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Bluewave 707
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:25 pm

There is a huge gap between FAITH and RELIGION!

FAITH is believing in something you cannot see, but know it exists ... God. It also is putting your heart and soul into a belief.

RELIGION is doing things ritualistically so much, which in turn becomes legalistic, and solely based on a person's works, not their faith.

Amazingly there are many RELIGIOUS people who actually lack FAITH, and go around expressing their legalism. Those who live a FAITH-based life, back up their faith with their works, and do not put their works above their faith.

In regards to reply #49 ... I choose to follow what the Bible insructs me. Even if you don't believe ... Proverbs is one of the best sources to the answers to life's questions, and so are Paul's epistles.

My feeling is ... if someone claims to be a Christian, and does not follow God's commands, then that person will be judged by God according to their actions, and they are only fooling themselves. It takes commitment to follow Christ, no one can follow Christ and the world at the same time. THat's like trying to sit on 2 chairs at the same time.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
mt99
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:51 pm

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 70):
Nor I have 12.

Is this were you are leaving this argument? I thought you wanted to discuss. Dont say later that you "missed" my posts on this thread too.

[TACAA320 exits stage left]
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PA110
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:25 pm

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 71):
FAITH is believing in something you cannot see, but know it exists

Faith by its very nature is an individual's own beliefs. Get a group of folks together who share the same beliefs and voila!, you have religion. The problem is there are many others in this world who regard your particular faith to be nothing more than superstition and myth. I don't say this to insult you, but underscore the fact that not everyone shares those personal truths that comprise your faith.

Conflict is bound to ensue when groups of people with shared faith start imposing their beliefs on others. This is the current power grab by evangelical christians in the United States. Evangelical christians are pushing for laws to be changed to conform to their own personal beliefs. They are calling for the outright discrimination of a whole class of people (gays) because of their particular interpretation of their faith.

This is exactly why separation of Church and State is such an absolute moral imperative. Go ahead and believe (as a personal truth) whatever it is you wish. But your right to act on those beliefs must end at my doorstep.

edited for spelling.

[Edited 2005-10-18 16:30:29]
Look, it's been swell, but the swelling's gone down.
 
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seb146
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:00 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 65):
My 2 cents worth....read up on Sodom and Gomorrah, I think it explains the biblical viewpoint

But, not only was there homosexuality being practiced in Sodom and Gomorrah, but also other wicked acts and such things as witchcraft, prostitution, and idolatry. I can not and do not believe any supreme being would destroy two cities based soley on the fact that there were homosexual acts being performed. If that were the case, there would be no cities in existence today. Taking human nature into account, Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Nazareth, Corinth and any other city mentioned in the Bible (many of which I can not remember off the top of my head) would have been destroyed.

IMHO, God was not so concerned with the homosexual acts carrying on as the acts of prostitution and worshiping false gods.

GO CANUCKS!!
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
TACAA320
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:22 am

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 72):

Is this were you are leaving this argument? I thought you wanted to discuss.

You though wrong.
Get over and over the same theme again? NO.
I will not follow your little game as in the past.
You perfectly know my position in this regard.
Do you want to fight, find another person.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
mt99
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:49 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 75):
Do you want to fight, find another person.

I dont want to fight. I want to discuss. If you want to leave the discussion, its your perrogative. But remember: it is you who is leaving. It is you who leaves unanswered questions...
Step into my office, baby
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:07 am

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 76):
I want to discuss

Well. You may discuss with others, if someone want to do so.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 76):
its your perrogative[sic].

Yes, it's my prerogative, and I will do it.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 76):
But remember: it is you who is leaving.

Don't worry: I have a good memory.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 76):
It is you who leaves unanswered questions...

As you said...

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 64):
If you'd[sic] prefer to say it in spanish[sic]....please do so.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
RedDragon
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:07 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 54):
Which ones?



Quoting http://www.christianadvice.net/sexuality.htm (Reply earlier):
should women teach in the church?
The whole history of Judaism and Christianity is proof that women as well as men are capable of great expressions of beauty.

Jesus' sexuality
Jesus had a taste for women and obviously attracted them. God however is set apart from sexual activity but not sexuality. So why is God interested in our sexuality -because he wishes to explore every aspect of love. From physical to spiritual and everything in between.



Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 58):
That's apparently your problem and Mt99. Period.

...And the problem of, I'd guess, a majority of the people who've argued with you in NonAv.

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 63):
I prefer to remain in the peace of other forums.

Then don't read and post worthlessly to threads here!

Quoting Oneworldman (Reply 60):
Hmmm... I am thinking that either you are a Professor at Oxford, (but you being the tender age of 21-25, I doubt it), or you simply did not understand what was written ( I am leaning more towards this explanation).

The Judging committee at Princeton University happens to disagree with you. They thought it was very well written. Written so well infact that the Rev. Dr. Jones, graduated with High honors.

Aside from feeling slightly patronised by you, I'm not knocking the sentiment of this dissertation as such (although I'm far from siding with it), but rather I feel the style of English used leaves a little to be desired. I'd hope that a dissertation, especially one on such an "arty/essay" subject, was written rather more... formally? It just came across as a little amateurish, that's all.

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 65):
My 2 cents worth....read up on Sodom and Gomorrah, I think it explains the biblical viewpoint



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 74):
God was not so concerned with the homosexual acts carrying on as the acts of prostitution and worshiping false gods.

Exactly. If Sodom and Gomorrah was about the abuse and heterosexual rape of visitors, no-one would interpret it as meaning that all heterosexual sexual contact is wrong. But since it's about homosexual rape, those with an agenda have decreed that it's a story against committed (dare I say normal) homosexual relationships. (For the benefit of TACA, I mean by this consensual, loving, mutually supportive relationships.)

Rich
 
mt99
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:17 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 77):
Well. You may discuss with others, if someone want to do so

If you dont want to discuss, why do you even post?

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 77):
Don't worry: I have a good memory.

If you say so. But, you have know to "forget" to answer questions, so i do not believe you.

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 77):
As you said...

OK. "Eres tu el que deja preguntas sin responder"  

[Edited 2005-10-18 21:25:18]
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oneworldman
Posts: 178
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:45 am

Quoting RedDragon (Reply 78):
I feel the style of English used leaves a little to be desired. I'd hope that a dissertation, especially one on such an "arty/essay" subject, was written rather more... formally? It just came across as a little amateurish, that's all.

Just as I thought, you completely misunderstood the context of how this dissertation was written. This entire paper was not written so much as a book as it was a discussion between Dr. Jones and a "lay" committee. The formality that you are looking for was not his intent at all. He need for the less educated lay committee to understand in simplest terms what he was trying say.

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 65):
My 2 cents worth....read up on Sodom and Gomorrah, I think it explains the biblical viewpoint

Ok, if you took the story of Sodom and Gomorrah literally, that would lead to believe that there was an entire city of homosexuals...Does anyone find that as difficult to believe as I do?

The passage in the story reads "every MAN came with the same desire to Lot’s door". Now reading that passage literally I guess it would be easy to assume that they were all gay, but I disagree. If you take into account the fact that in Old Testament text, women and children are not mentioned specifically because they were looked upon as property of males. So again, reading literally, if women and children are included in the assessment, it no longer makes the context one of homosexuality, since the passage states that every man, all the people from every quarter (KJV), or as other translations read, all the people, down to the last man participated. So, if this account is to be believed as written, there was among the crowd women desiring sex with men, which is not a homosexual act.
Querer es poder.
 
jaysit
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:53 am

Quoting PA110 (Reply 73):
This is exactly why separation of Church and State is such an absolute moral imperative. Go ahead and believe (as a personal truth) whatever it is you wish. But your right to act on those beliefs must end at my doorstep.

Amen.

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 49):
The Bible does say in I Corinthians 7 that marital sex for pleasure is condoned.

And, yet, that only includes sex in the missionary position.

I guess all ye who have practiced slobbin the knob, or munchin the rug will burn in hell for all eternity. And you know what that hell will be? An eternity of blue balls watching others getting bjs.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
jafa39
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:25 am

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 74):
IMHO, God was not so concerned with the homosexual acts

Making assumptions about what God thinks/thought in order to shore up your own likes/dislikes is very dodgy if you ask me. I interpret Soddom and Gomorrah as about all hedonistic practices, both hetero and homosexual I dare say there were things went on in these cities that i might well enjoy...and that will be mine to deal with when I pass on!

Quoting RedDragon (Reply 78):
But since it's about homosexual rape

Sodomy isn't only about rape, why do people get so het up about gay issues? Man, anyone would think being straight meant life was easy, well let me tell you all now, if you're straight you stand a good chance of having to parent teenagers at some point, nothing on this earth compares in terms of stress, worry and insecurity, so if you're in a "Non-breeding relationship" count your blessings!  Smile
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
Bluewave 707
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:35 am

God destroyed Sodom & Gomorrah because of sin ... period! The destruction was not focussed on one particular type of sin. Anything not of God is sin. By the way ... sin is part of our free will that God gave us. It's up to every individual to choose. Just remember, in the end we will ALL be held accountable before God ... except some will face reward, and the others judgement. It's your call.


As for the separation of church and state ... it is NOT part of the US Constitution. It was an opinion written by Thomas Jefferson ...

"I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof' thus building a wall of separation of Church and State."

That's why we have a 1st Amendment of Free Speech.

And for those who don't know, a majority of the laws that founded this great country of ours were taken directly from the Bible.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:20 pm

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 79):
so i do not believe you.

So?
Do you think I care?
By the way, I don't believe you either.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
HAJFlyer
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:34 pm

RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:58 pm

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 83):
And for those who don't know, a majority of the laws that founded this great country of ours were taken directly from the Bible.

Bluewave, I beg to differ.

While it is certainly correct that many of laws in place today are based on or have their roots in Judeo-Christian values and beliefs, they were not taken directly from the bible. If that were the case, the US would be a theocracy (like Iran) which it is definitely not and hopefully never will be.
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:20 pm

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 84):
So?
Do you think I care?
By the way, I don't believe you either.

You do care!. If you didnt, you would not have responded.
Step into my office, baby
 
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ManuCH
Posts: 2679
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:16 am

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 83):
God destroyed Sodom & Gomorrah because of sin ... period! The destruction was not focussed on one particular type of sin. Anything not of God is sin. By the way ... sin is part of our free will that God gave us. It's up to every individual to choose. Just remember, in the end we will ALL be held accountable before God ... except some will face reward, and the others judgement. It's your call.

Source?
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:50 am

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 86):

You do care!. If you didnt, you would not have responded

Sorry, but I responded because I have the right to do so. And I will do it anytime that I consider that I have to do it.

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 87):
Source?

The Bible. Also check: http://www.arkdiscovery.com/sodom_&_gomorrah.htm
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
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ManuCH
Posts: 2679
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RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:03 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 88):
Quoting ManuCH (Reply 87):
Source?

The Bible.

That's exactly the point. Everyone is free to have his own religious beliefs. But what I have a hard time accepting is when people use bible quotations as facts. IMHO these should be personal opinion and therefore not quoted as facts that really happened / are really happening, because there are no proofs. It's only a matter of personal belief, which, again, I respect.

But quotes like this...

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 83):
God destroyed Sodom & Gomorrah because of sin ... period!

... I really have a hard time accepting. Not everyone necessarily needs to believe in god. But maybe I'm nitpicking.
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:20 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 88):
Sorry, but I responded because I have the right to do so. And I will do it anytime that I consider that I have to do it.

Since you haven't yet addresed or responded to issuses on this (and past threads) does that mean that you do not consider necesary to respond to them? Why not?

Hardly a way to keep a discussion going!

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 88):
The Bible.

Truth is something that people agree on. Truth is fluid.

Iraq had WMD - That was truth then.
Iraq did not have WMD- That is truth now.

See my point.
Step into my office, baby
 
scaredflyer21
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2000 6:52 am

RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:49 am

I do not see anything wrong with two men or women loving each other, but I do believe that the Bible says that it is only a sin to act upon those feelings (not to have them!).
 
HAJFlyer
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:34 pm

RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:04 am

Quoting Scaredflyer21 (Reply 91):
but I do believe that the Bible says that it is only a sin to act upon those feelings (not to have them!).

Leaving aside your interpretation of the bible which I respect but don't share, do you believe it would be a good thing from a psychological or sociological perspective if 10% of the population repressed their sexuality ?
 
RedDragon
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:24 am

RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:15 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 88):
Also check: http://www.arkdiscovery.com/sodom_&_...h.htm

Shame that that page doesn't appear to offer any elucidation on the reasons behind the destruction of the city (cities) - it being a(n albeit intriguing) geological observation.

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 82):
Sodomy isn't only about rape, why do people get so het up about gay issues? Man, anyone would think being straight meant life was easy, well let me tell you all now, if you're straight you stand a good chance of having to parent teenagers at some point, nothing on this earth compares in terms of stress, worry and insecurity, so if you're in a "Non-breeding relationship" count your blessings

Eh? Having completely missed your point, I'm unaware of quite why you're telling us this. I'm aware that sodomy is not "all about" rape, clearly. What I was saying was that the story of Sodom and Gomorrah included rape - not consensual "sodomy", rape. That's the problem.
 
scaredflyer21
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2000 6:52 am

RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:39 pm

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 92):
Leaving aside your interpretation of the bible which I respect but don't share, do you believe it would be a good thing from a psychological or sociological perspective if 10% of the population repressed their sexuality ?

My post was a bit confusing and I apologize. I do not agree with the Bible's "interpretation" of sexuality, and I also do feel that everyone should be able to express their sexuality in their own way.
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:00 pm

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 89):
Everyone is free to have his own religious beliefs.

Agreed!

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 89):
. But what I have a hard time accepting is when people use bible quotations as facts.

Did you read the link provided?
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Bluewave 707
Posts: 2794
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:21 am

RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:35 pm

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 85):
While it is certainly correct that many of laws in place today are based on or have their roots in Judeo-Christian values and beliefs, they were not taken directly from the bible. If that were the case, the US would be a theocracy (like Iran) which it is definitely not and hopefully never will be.

That's exactly why Jefferson wrote his opinion. He did not want the US to have a state religion (like the UK had back in the day), or be a theocracy. That's why the 1st Amendment exists today, so people of other beliefs can practice freely. Fact remains that over 90% of the men who helped construct the US Constitution were Christians, as well those who signed it.



As far as Sodom & Gomorrah goes, if you take the time to read the Biblical account in Genesis 18:16 - 19:29, you will get the whole story.
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
tbar220
Posts: 6706
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:52 pm

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 14):
And so it was that God created Man.

Hilarious joke Big grin

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 83):
And for those who don't know, a majority of the laws that founded this great country of ours were taken directly from the Bible.

I strongly disagree with this statement. That's for another thread, and I will look further into it.

What people don't realize, is that there are basically two creation stories/myths in the book of Genesis.

Chatper 1:

26 And God said: 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.'

27 And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.


In this story, God created male and female at the same time.

Why then in the next chapter (2) is there a new story of the creation of man? This is the more familiar story where man is created from the dust of the earth and woman from his rib.

Why this difference?

I personally like the first story better, where male and female are created at the same time, equal.
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User avatar
ManuCH
Posts: 2679
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:33 am

RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:31 pm

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 95):
Did you read the link provided?

Yes. My being doubtful wasn't about your link or about the geological evidence, but about the god-part in this whole thing.
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
Adam T.
Posts: 797
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 7:01 am

RE: Christianity And Sexuality

Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:50 pm

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 96):
Fact remains that over 90% of the men who helped construct the US Constitution were Christians, as well those who signed it.

But that doesn't mean that the US Consitituon was written directly from the bible. Sure, they may have been christian but did they say "Now, lets take this passage from the bible to create this clause in the Constitution".

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