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andaman
Topic Author
Posts: 2271
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:30 am

When traveling through our Nordic neighbors last summer, I was thinking how much more easier it would be if all Nordic countries had EURO money (well, Norway should join the Union first), as easy when you travel from Finland to Central-Europe.

I'm not sure if the big boys in Bank of Europe are always doing the right thing,
but with the EURO-money the idea of the Union finally became flesh to me, when I could buy my beer with Spanish coins in a Finnish pub or when my Finnish cents were valid in Ireland...

What people think now about the EURO-currency outside the zone? Will the new members in Eastern Europe join before England, Sweden and Denmark?
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
Checo77
Posts: 1263
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:44 pm

The EURO is awfull!!!!!!!!!!!! I hate it so much!!! I love Czech Crowns and I don´t know what I´m gonna do without it!!!
Everything is more expensive, that´s what´s EURO about!!!
Regards,
Adam
PS: The Czech Republic is joining the EURO-zone in 2012, and I know that Poland and Slovakia in 2010. Slovenia I think even in 2008.
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
 
Boeing744
Posts: 1766
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:48 pm

I think the Euro is a great idea for you guys. It makes everything so much easier. When I was in Germany, Italy and Spain in the summer, it was great that we did not have to exchange currencies for every country. I also like the coins. They are much smaller and lighter than ours, and have more denominations.
 
NoUFO
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:07 pm

Quoting Checo77 (Reply 1):
The EURO is awfull!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why don't you add another exclamation mark?

Quoting Checo77 (Reply 1):
I hate it so much!!!

You hate a foreign currency?

Quoting Checo77 (Reply 1):
I love Czech Crowns and I don´t know what I´m gonna do without it!!!

Do you accept suggestions?



Maybe you want to calm down a little.

Quoting Checo77 (Reply 1):
Everything is more expensive, that´s what´s EURO about!!!

Thanks for the enlightenment. Seriously: Prices went up, but not for long. In an open and market oriented economy buyers basically have the power over pricing. The only real exception I can think of are restaurants here in Berlin. But then again: The prices they charge are still comparatively low and an increase in prices were long overdue and expected due to the increasing number of tourists.
A decent meal in a restaurant in downtown Berlin that was sold for DM 12 back in 2001 will now cost you some EUR 8.50 (DM 17).
However, outside of tourist hotspots you can still get a nice meal for 5 Euro.
I support the right to arm bears
 
IFLYMCO
Posts: 475
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:24 pm

Personally, I think it is both good and bad. It is very convenient if you travel from country to country. IMHO, the EU has really done a good job of trying to integrate itself- the Euro andthe Schengen treaty sure went a long way to helping with that as well.

On the downside, I know some people complain that it makes things very expensive. Some Italian friends of mine said prices practically doubled on household goods when they converted. Also, it was a shame to lose the designs of some of the currencies- check out the old Dutch guilders- I think it was the most beautiful money in the world...



http://aes.iupui.edu/rwise/banknotes/netherlands/NetherlandsP96-50Gulden-1982-donatedsrb_f.jpg
Now it should be "IFLYDCA"
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:38 pm

Quoting IFLYMCO (Reply 4):
check out the old Dutch guilders- I think it was the most beautiful money in the world...

The 50 Gulden note looks fine but the 10 Gulden note ...agghh ... what did the designer smoke?

Quoting IFLYMCO (Reply 4):
Some Italian friends of mine said prices practically doubled on household goods when they converted.

Italy was an extreme case. Before the Euro was introduced, tourists were confused by the sheer number of zeros on their bill. During the changeover, Italians were equally confused by the lack of zeros and shopkeepers as well as producers took advantage of it.

However, you can not blame the Euro for that. What happened in Italy was basically fraud: There was an official conversion rate and shopkeepers who ignored it got away with it. Italian politicians have simply failed to introduce penalties against such fraud beforehand.

That being said, I believe that people are not noticing that the price of durables (computers, mobile phones, furniture) were not rising at all or that durables even became cheaper - contrary to more essential everyday things like vegetables or your daily Cappuccino. That adds to the diffuse feeling that prices go through the roof.
And frankly isn't that a feeling people have everywhere? When did Swedes, Canadians or US Americans say life became cheaper?

Back to Italy: As far as I know, inflation is higher than rises in salaries are which makes them feel poorer.

[Edited 2005-11-12 07:40:49]
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aer lingus
Posts: 367
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:05 pm

I prefer the £ IEP because the quality of the notes is about 3 times better than the Euro notes. The £ IEP notes are more durable because they don't really crease that easily. While Euro notes creases very easily. I missed the £10 IEP with a picture of James Joyce in it. The texture of the £10 IEP note is very nice compared to the texture of 10 Euro note.
The £ GBP is not bad I quite like the colour of most of the notes except for the old £1, £5, £10, £20 Bank of Scotland notes because the colour looks very bland.

So I don't like the Euro at all.
Split Scimitar or Sharklets?
 
IFLYMCO
Posts: 475
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:11 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 5):
The 50 Gulden note looks fine but the 10 Gulden note ...agghh ... what did the designer smoke?

HAHA ok, maybe this one will make up for it??



About the Italian situation- it makes sense.
Now it should be "IFLYDCA"
 
NoUFO
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:35 pm

My dear IFLYMCO, I think I'm getting colourblind.

Aer Lingus,
The reasons you have stated are pretty superficial, pardon my harsh words. I thought we're debatting the effects a common currency has on the economy of member states of the Eurozone?

Oh, and those who despise the Euro are free to transfer their Euros on my bank account.

[Edited 2005-11-12 08:36:28]
I support the right to arm bears
 
simo82
Posts: 179
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:15 pm

I'm really happy with the Euro, I think it is a great currency with a huge potential that is not yet totally expressed in the world market, but hopefully it will be in a few years. It gives to the entire EU the economic stability that it needs for a well balanced growth, even if it hasn't happened yet I believe that it will in a couple of years.

What happened in Italy has REALLY nothing to do with the Euro, has said correctly by NoUFO it has been a fraud, you must also add the fact that the govt had no interest in controlling and acting against fraud.Worst the govt used the excuse of Euro for the economical crisis! Blaming the opposition and pointing out that they were the ones who wanted the introduction of Euro!


CIAO
Simo
 
Doona
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:02 pm

We "were" gonna join the zone, but the popular vote said no. That's when I lost faith in democracy. I was involved in the "yes"-campaign, and the amounts of shit I hade read just to answer ordinary peoples questions were staggering... You can't expect people to make such a decision on an informed basis. People never saw past the "prices will go up"-crap, or that it would be "such a nuisance to switch currencies".

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
L410Turbolet
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:46 pm

I don't think that the geneal increase in prices is to be blamed to the Euro itself rather than to the retailers abusing the opportunity when people needed time to get used to the new currency and realize what's acceptable price and what's not.
Example of the above: When I'm in the UK - whih is not verz often - not being used to counting in GBP difference between 0.79 and 0.89 seems minimal since over here I'm used to count mostly in tens, hundreds and thousands CZK. On the other hand, I'm sure the Brits know at first glance at the totem next to the gas station whether the gasoline is cheap or expensive by local standards.
I think this is what happened with EUR as well.

The more serious problem I see is the fact that let's say Czech economy gets into deep recession (not unlikely with those idiotic soc-dem clowns currently in power, who spend like there's no tomorrow), while Portuguese will be booming at 9%. Each country would need to stimulate the ecomomy differently - among others by setting interest rates according to the immediate state of the economy. Given the absence of national central banks, I'm not sure whether the ECB's response to such situation would be adequate.
I know that it's so convenient to use the same money in Tenerife, Athens or Helsinki, but beyond this are the advantages so much better than the disadvantages???

I think there's no need for the new members to rush to adopt EUR. The later it will happen the better since the economies will be (I hope) stronger.
 
jush
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:00 pm

There are two sides of the Euro. The idea is beautiful. For me living in Nordhorn, 2 km away from the Netherlands border we use to drive there for certain things for example coffee or diesel or the wonderful fastfood (Ever tried Frikandel? Krokett? or the chips? Great stuff!
So it's very convenient to pay in Euro. Having said that it wasn't a big problem before because guilds were accepted here and DM over there. And because they had nearly the same value (1DM = 1.10 guilds) it was no problem at all.

But in Germany for example prices have gone up if you want nealy 100%.
Business used the deceiving currency course of the DM to Euro for price rising and that was and is BAD (1 € = 1,95583 DM). Everything seemed half price. So you still know it isn't but your going into that trap more often than you think.

I could write on for hours but it's tiring me.
So
Regards
jush
There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
 
Matt27
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:19 pm

Quoting Andaman (Thread starter):
I was thinking how much more easier it would be if all Nordic countries had EURO money

You can use the Euro in Sweden, but the exchange rate won't be any good.

Quoting Andaman (Thread starter):
Will the new members in Eastern Europe join before England, Sweden and Denmark?

Sweden won't join for at least another 7-10 years. After the referendum in 2003, nobody in Sweden talks about the Euro anymore. I think the Danes are getting interested in adopting the Euro now.

Quoting Doona (Reply 10):
I was involved in the "yes"-campaign

Good boy. Big grin

Quoting Doona (Reply 10):
People never saw past the "prices will go up"-crap, or that it would be "such a nuisance to switch currencies".

Left-wing propaganda  banghead 
Man ska inte dricka rödvin i en vit hall.
 
Doona
Posts: 3382
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:24 pm

Quoting Matt27 (Reply 13):
Good boy.

 praise 

Quoting Matt27 (Reply 13):
Left-wing propaganda

Our side could have used some propaganda too, but the politicians bungled it. With a budget 4 or 5 times as large as the "no"-side, they still couldn't get past the "you won't have to exchange money"-thing. That was really the most unimportant change, but that was the only message the campaign heads thought ordinary people could understand...  banghead 

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
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Braybuddy
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:25 pm

Quoting Aer Lingus (Reply 6):
The £ IEP notes are more durable because they don't really crease that easily.

Sorry Aer Lingus, but you are mistaken: don't you remember that there was a big problem with the £5 note (coincidentally the exact same size as the €5 one)? There were suggestions about having it withdrawn and replaced by a coin because it had become so tatty in circulation. I believe that the size of the note itself is the problem. I've noticed when travelling that the larger size notes tend to last longer than smaller ones. This isn't down to people being more careful with larger ones as some countries use relatively large notes for small denominations.

We've just become so used to the euro now it seems crazy having a separate currency (I know the old argument about inflation, etc, and so far that hasn't happened). I used to travel regularly for weekend trips to London, and occasionally to the continent. I haven't been on a weekender to London for nearly two years and have been to the continent several times instead. Why? I still love London, but it's so much easier travelling to Brussels or Paris and not having to change money. Now it's like more like hopping on a train to Cork than going abroad.

There were predictions that the euro would collapse within ten years. We have had seven years of it now and there are no strains on the currency so far. The price rises at changeover were miniscule and painless here, and have long been absorbed

[Edited 2005-11-12 11:31:50]
 
eilennaei
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:29 pm

Quoting Doona (Reply 10):
We "were" gonna join the zone, but the popular vote said no. That's when I lost faith in democracy.

You're not alone. It's just awful, is it not, when people say "no" to all the good and positive things. Luckily the "no" is not a "no", just an indication that the electorate need retraining, eventually they'll say a "yes" all the same.
 
NoUFO
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:33 pm

Quoting Jush (Reply 12):
But in Germany for example prices have gone up if you want nealy 100%.

Sorry, that's rubbish. As mentioned before, only prices for everyday things such as vegetables went up - not prices in general. Especially vegs and fruit became more expensive - as I recall some 30 percent temporarily(!).
And this only happened, because our politicians failed to impose fines on those not sticking to the official exchange rate. At least France and the Netherlands did and inflation was a lot lower, but those countries are never mentioned by those opposing the Euro.
Our politicians simply thought that an exchange rate dead easy as 1 Euro = roughly 2 Mark renders penalties against fraud obsolete, since every first grader can easily spot daylight robbery. But do you know exactly what the average price for 1kg of peas is today? Three months ago? No? See ... that's why fraud was such a simple thing to do.

Furthermore, the inflation according to the average Frida or Fritz (often referred to as "felt" inflation) and the actual inflation are two completely different animals. People started to outbid each other: 20% ... 25% ... 30% .. 50% ... now we have apparently reached 100%.
The actual inflation was: Below 5% if I recall correctly.

I have found a report that claims to shed some light on this phenomenon. I haven't read it yet, but I'm pretty sure it supports my stance:
http://www.destatis.de/presse/deutsc.../pk/2005/dstatg_Brachinger_neu.pdf (german, PDF).

[Edited 2005-11-12 11:50:51]
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L410Turbolet
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:49 pm

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 16):
You're not alone. It's just awful, is it not, when people say "no" to all the good and positive things. Luckily the "no" is not a "no", just an indication that the electorate need retraining, eventually they'll say a "yes" all the same.

What a great example of "democracy" - the EU Edition. Should you decide differently than we want you to, we'll just simply repeat the voting until the outcome is the way want it to be and ram it down your throat whether you like it or not.
 
NoUFO
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:10 pm

I'm off. Tell Banco, Andreas, Klaus and Good-for-nothing-Kirkie  Wink I said 'Hi' if (or better: when) they join this thread. Big grin
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MD11Engineer
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:17 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 17):
Furthermore, the inflation according to the average Frida or Fritz (often referred to as "felt" inflation) and the actual inflation are two completely different animals. People started to outbid each other: 20% ... 25% ... 30% .. 50% ... now we have apparently reached 100%.
The actual inflation was: Below 5% if I recall correctly.

Actually Germany has one of the lowest inflation rates in the EU, last time I read about something like 1%. Due to the experiences with three extreme economic crisises back in the early 20th century (hyperinflation in the early 1920s, world economic crisis 1929-1933, currency conversion from Reichsmark to Deutschmark in 1948), were most people lost all their savings three times in one generation, inflation is considered to be the absolute evil. German governments rather exceed their budget limits (as seen during the last four years) than to permit an inflation above 1-2%.
One thing which affected prices for food lately are fuel costs for transport and I've seen a lot of fraud happening through price gouging back in 2001, when the Euro was introduced. I still have to calculate prices sometimes in D-Mark, because, having grown up with the D-Mark, sometimes the feel of Euro prices seems to be low, when they are actually more expensive.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Banco
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:16 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 19):
I'm off. Tell Banco, Andreas, Klaus and Good-for-nothing-Kirkie I said 'Hi' if (or better: when) they join this thread

You called, sir? Big grin

Quoting Doona (Reply 10):
We "were" gonna join the zone, but the popular vote said no. That's when I lost faith in democracy

Anyone spot the contradiction there? Prsumably, had the vote been yes, you would have thought it a wonderful affirmation of democracy?

Quoting Andaman (Thread starter):
Will the new members in Eastern Europe join before England, Sweden and Denmark?

It's off the agenda in the UK for the forseeable future. There's no real political will for it, and the public are exceptionally hostile to the idea. Maybe it'll come up again in the next recession.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 8):
Aer Lingus,
The reasons you have stated are pretty superficial, pardon my harsh words. I thought we're debatting the effects a common currency has on the economy of member states of the Eurozone?

The trouble is, that whether in favour or against, the arguments do get pretty superficial. One of the arguments I've heard (mainly from the continent, it has to be said) as to why Britons dislike the Euro is supposedly because the Queen's Head is removed from the currency or some such. As if that's remotely relevant to anything! Who cares?

Nor do I think the question of price increases are particularly important in the great scheme of things. It only has a short term effect, if at all.

The arguments for or against the Euro hinge on its success or otherwise in providing a sound fiscal and economic base, and whether a pan-European, single interest rate promotes growth and prosperity or otherwise, plus whether the loss of sovereignty (or the pooling of sovereignty - depending on perspective) is justified by the gains.

Some say yes, some say no.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
flyAUA
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The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:05 pm

The EURO is great  bigthumbsup 

I don't judge a currency by how colorful a paper-note is, or by the fact that there is a flower, lighthouse, or politician on it. I have more important things to worry about. Alright, things might have gotten more expensive, but when you have been paying ATS12.90 (EUR0.94) for a litre of milk, is it so tragic when you have to pay EUR1.00 instead? I think not. The EURO has brought a lot of advantages to me and whoever is complaining about prices going up is just whining because it's almost negligible. Some shops were even rounding DOWN when they converted prices. Apart from living cost (food, etc....) I really did not feel any rise in prices. Only the normal type of inflation that would have taken place without the EURO anyways. Being able to travel around without exchanging currencies, paying fees, and moving towards a more "unified" Europe, is much more important for me.

So I will take this opportunity to openly admit my love towards the EURO Big grin , and look down on those EU countries that have not accepted the currency in shame  snooty 
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
jwenting
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RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:13 am

All the Euro did was make a lot of money for governments which went into a lot of Swiss bank accounts.

For subjects of the EU everything got a lot more expensive. Inflation is through the roof, salaries are stagnant, poverty is on the rise rapidly.

Thank you EU for destroying our strong economies for the greater glory of the European ideal of making bureaucrats and politicians rich and powerful.
I wish I were flying
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:11 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 23):
All the Euro did was make a lot of money for governments which went into a lot of Swiss bank accounts.

On what do you base this statement? The changeover actually cost a lot of money if you think about it (ie the cost of minting and printing coins and notes, plus the withdrawal and destruction of the old currency, plus all the conversion costs for government departments, etc), then there was a huge advertising campaign on top of all that.

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 23):
For subjects of the EU everything got a lot more expensive. Inflation is through the roof, salaries are stagnant, poverty is on the rise rapidly.

I don't know about the Netherlands, but the changeover had no noticeable effect on inflation here. Again I don't know about the Netherlands, but here unemployment is down and salaries continue to increase.

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 23):
Thank you EU for destroying our strong economies for the greater glory of the European ideal of making bureaucrats and politicians rich and powerful.

I think the economic problems in some European countries pre-date the introduction of the euro.
 
Alessandro
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RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 6:16 am

Well, I voted yes as well, I think people tend to vote no more, "no to change
to right hand traffic", "no to nuclear power in the long run" and "no to the €uro".
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
flyAUA
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RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:05 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 24):
I think the economic problems in some European countries pre-date the introduction of the euro.

 checkmark 

Certainly... but why blame the underlying problems when you can blame the Euro?  Wink
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
Banco
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RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:35 am

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 26):
Certainly... but why blame the underlying problems when you can blame the Euro?

Perhaps because one could argue that the introduction of the Euro has exacerbated some of those problems?

Now, personally, I would say the reluctance to embrace real economic reform ("face reality" would be a blunter way of putting it) is a larger issue, but the introduction of the Euro didn't help. That's because it's fundamentally a political project, not an economic one. Doesn't mean it's wrong, of course.
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HT
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RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:46 am

I love the Euro. It makes travelling and comparing prices much easier.

When I was in Slovenia (daytrip from Austria) this summer those ticket machines forparking lots did accept both the local slovenian currency as well as Euro-coins.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
BR076
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RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:15 am

I love the Euro, in fact I get 400 of them back on my energy bill this year  bigthumbsup 
ú
 
ltbewr
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RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:00 am

Unfortuntly, I haven't been to Europe since the Euro was put into place and is used (last Euro trip - if you consider them part of the EC - was to the UK in 2002). I would miss the colorful and different banknotes (to deter counterfitting and to note local history, honor) and coins of each now Euro country, it makes life a lot easier if travel through several countries. Of course with the greater use of credit and debit cards, the Euro really helps prevent the banks/card issuers from making a profit from the exchange rates and fees within the EC/Euro countries.
I just wish that the Euro = US Dollar exchange rate would get better for the USA (although it has improved in recent months), like $1 = Euro 1.
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:32 am

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 16):
You're not alone. It's just awful, is it not, when people say "no" to all the good and positive things. Luckily the "no" is not a "no", just an indication that the electorate need retraining, eventually they'll say a "yes" all the same.

So Tony Blair is an a.net member going under the username Eilennaei !

Seriously, I would have to say no to the Euro, not that we were asked here.
We had serious prices rises; restaurants in tourist areas amongst the worst offenders. My local garden centre just changed the decimal place on a load of things (our rate was 200 escudos = 1 eur, so things marked 400 esc. became 4 eur when the proper rate was 2 eur.)

The main problem for a small country like Portugal is the "one size fits all" model. As the price of property is really high these days most people are spending about half or more of their combined income on mortgages. The ECB are always going to do what is good for the major players (France, Germany etc) so if they hike interest rates it will force a lot of people into bancruptcy here.

Yes, it's great for tourists travelling around Eurozone countries - all the money they save on exchange goes on higher prices and then some...
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
Banco
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RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:40 am

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 31):
ECB are always going to do what is good for the major players (France, Germany etc) so if they hike interest rates it will force a lot of people into bancruptcy here.

And, the irony here is that if the UK were to join now, interest rates would have to rise - disaster for Germany, France and Italy, let alone Portugal.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:53 am

I think the EU is a very successful TRADING block, which was the original idea - what's killing it is the politics. European Commission, European Parliament, European Council, - hundreds of thousands of unnecessary jobs for the boys especially for "has been or never really were" politicians e.g. Barroso, Kinnock etc...
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
RedDragon
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RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:54 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 30):
(last Euro trip - if you consider them part of the EC - was to the UK in 2002)

Er, yes.
 
Avianca
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RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:32 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 3):
A decent meal in a restaurant in downtown Berlin that was sold for DM 12 back in 2001 will now cost you some EUR 8.50 (DM 17).



Quoting NoUFO (Reply 17):
The actual inflation was: Below 5% if I recall correctly.

good example look your meal is now more than 40% expensiver than before the we get the euro.

Below 5% is a joke more than a joke, better to say a brazenness from the politician/institutes saying that. All costs increased but not our salaries!

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 22):
Alright, things might have gotten more expensive, but when you have been paying ATS12.90 (EUR0.94) for a litre of milk, is it so tragic when you have to pay EUR1.00 instead? I

if "all" products are now more expensiver it is a problem.



cheers
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
swisskloten
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:13 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 8):
Oh, and those who despise the Euro are free to transfer their Euros on my bank account.

Send me some too! I can have them exchanged for Francs but I'll get a lot more for free! That's why I like the fact that Switzerland still uses the Franc.
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:22 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 35):
good example look your meal is now more than 40% expensiver than before the we get the euro.

Arglh ... quick reminder: We have 2005 now (and soon 2006). The fact that the above mentioned meal is now 40% (actually a little less, because EUR 8,50 equals some DM 16,62) more expensive then it was 2001 is not the result of the introduction of the Euro alone. Add to this that I have already mentioned that restaurants at Berlin's tourist paths were waiting in the starting blocks to significantly increase prices due to the growing number of tourists, it is clear that you can not put the blame entirely on the Euro.

If you actually and for whatever reason want to equate the general inflation rate with prices restaurants charge, than at least add restaurants outside of tourists traps to that. You have completely ignored that I mentioned another restaurant, where you can still have a decent meal for 5 Euro.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 35):
Below 5% is a joke more than a joke, better to say a brazenness from the politician/institutes saying that.

Why would a Swiss (!) university intentionally publish wrong numbers on the German inflation rate? To intentionally spoil its own reputation?

Quoting Avianca (Reply 35):
All costs increased but not our salaries!

1) Not all prices increased but some, most notably those of everyday things.
2) The Euro is not to blame for every increase in prices since 2002.
3) If the increase of your annual income is lower than the general inflation rate (less then 2%), something seriously went wrong.

Quoting Swisskloten (Reply 36):
I can have them exchanged for Francs but I'll get a lot more for free! That's why I like the fact that Switzerland still uses the Franc.

Sorry, what do you get for free? Last time I checked, life in Sitzerland wasn't exactly cheaper than in Germany. Add, or better: substract the conversion fees from that and I really don't see what you'll get "more for free".
I support the right to arm bears
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13899
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:54 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 37):
3) If the increase of your annual income is lower than the general inflation rate (less then 2%), something seriously went wrong.

Well, this is a matter between yourself and your boss. Some companies increase salaries every year to cover inflation, others don't do it, like my last two employers.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:05 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 19):
Tell Banco, Andreas, Klaus and Good-for-nothing-Kirkie    I said 'Hi' if (or better: when) they join this thread.

Hi right back at you! Big grin
You were doing just fine.

Quoting Banco (Reply 21):
The arguments for or against the Euro hinge on its success or otherwise in providing a sound fiscal and economic base,

It is stable and inflation is low. That is what a currency is supposed to provide.

Quoting Banco (Reply 21):
and whether a pan-European, single interest rate promotes growth and prosperity or otherwise,

The currency's job is to provide stability. It cannot provide growth or employment; That's a different matter. Using currency manipulations to make a dent in either without changing the actual bases for each is a bad idea.

Quoting Banco (Reply 21):
plus whether the loss of sovereignty (or the pooling of sovereignty - depending on perspective) is justified by the gains.

When your monetary target is stability, it is the central bank that needs to be sovereign and it has nothing whatsoever to do with national sovereignty. Governments have no business in meddling with the currency.

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 31):
The ECB are always going to do what is good for the major players (France, Germany etc) so if they hike interest rates it will force a lot of people into bancruptcy here.

No, they're doing what is best for the stability of the currency. Currency manipulation as a compensation for failed policies is a bad idea and doesn't work except to "cook the books" in the short term - only to bite you soon thereafter.
 
flyAUA
Posts: 4287
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RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:12 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 39):

*Puts finger on Klaus*

................

*Melting noises*

Ah you're on fire... I knew you'd join the thread and save me sooner or later. I was lacking support  Wink
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
Avianca
Posts: 5377
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:40 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 37):
2) The Euro is not to blame for every increase in prices since 2002.

not for every, but a big part of the increased prices.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 37):
3) If the increase of your annual income is lower than the general inflation rate (less then 2%), something seriously went wrong.

the increase of the most incomes were lower the last years (Tarifverträge) + pensions werent increased

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:37 pm

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 40):
Ah you're on fire...

No, just re-awakened from the latest work-induced coma.  tired 

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 40):
I knew you'd join the thread and save me sooner or later.

Anytime... But I don't think you really needed to be saved. Big grin

Quoting Avianca (Reply 41):
not for every, but a big part of the increased prices.

Um, so how much of the low-single-digit inflation would that be, exactly?  Yeah sure
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:52 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 39):
Hi right back at you! Big grin
You were doing just fine.

Appreciated, thank you. Big grin

Quoting Avianca (Reply 41):
the increase of the most incomes were lower the last years (Tarifverträge) + pensions werent increased

Increase in salaries, (blue-collar) worker:

Year --- Germany --- West --- East

2004 --- 2 507 --- 2 594 --- 1 920
2003 --- 2 460 --- 2 546 --- 1 874
2002 --- 2 396 --- 2 480 --- 1 833
2001 --- 2 354 --- 2 440 --- 1 795
2000 --- 2 320 --- 2 409 --- 1 759
1999 --- 2 249 --- 2 340 --- 1 728
1998 --- 2 196 --- 2 285 --- 1 691
1997 --- 2 145 --- 2 234 --- 1 657
1996 --- 2 111 --- 2 202 --- 1 626


Increase in salaries, employees:

Year --- Germany --- West --- East

2004 --- 3 384 --- 3 470 --- 2 572
2003 --- 3 304 --- 3 389 --- 2 511
2002 --- 3 198 --- 3 285 --- 2 415
2001 --- 3 079 --- 3 167 --- 2 321
2000 --- 2 984 --- 3 071 --- 2 242
1999 --- 2 898 --- 2 984 --- 2 184
1998 --- 2 814 --- 2 899 --- 2 122
1997 --- 2 746 --- 2 832 --- 2 061
1996 --- 2 688 --- 2 778 --- 1 993

Source: http://www.destatis.de/indicators/d/lrverueb.htm

Looks pretty constant to me.

Anyway, this all hasn't got much to do with the inflation or rather "felt" inflation after the introduction of the Euro, has it?

There are many indicators that unmistakably show that, although prices of some products went up (many of them only temporarily), there was actually much ado about nothing. The average inflation rate wasn't much higher than usual, no matter what the impression of a vast and delightfully blustering group of people was.
And even the rises that can realistically be linked to the introduction of the Euro, were, to a large extend, avoidable.
I support the right to arm bears
 
CPH757
Posts: 652
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:40 pm

RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:55 pm

I'm in great favor of the Euro, although the popular vote turned it down by 53 to 47% in Denmark in 2000.

I'm amazed by some of the comments in this thread, especially about the price increases. NoUFO correctly suggest, that the new currency won't result in increased inflation, because the market is controlled by two guys called supply and demand, not the price setters in the supermarket. Perhaps some rigidities can occur in the short sight, like the Italian example, but I was solved relatively quick.

In my opinion the Euro has it advantages as well as drawbacks. For the small economies like Denmark and Sweden, the Euro is a security against speculative attacks, like the one Sweden experienced in the early 90's, and caused a recession. We currently have the EMS2 agreement, by which the EMU helps us in case of a speculative attack, but I'm not sure this will continue, if we are seeing more than one attack.

One of the main advantages of the Euro, is the political integration among the members. Political in two senses. The first one creating a more open and simple market, the other one enforcing stability in the region.

Economically the countries loose their ability to adjust their monetary policies individually, but did our monetary policies really differ that much in the 90's?

As a small country with open capital markets, Denmark can't even make monetary policy today, as our currency is bound to the Euro. This is due to the EMS2 agreement. The same is true for Sweden, and for all small EU members not in the eurozone, although in a less formal context.

I would really appreciate if the population of the EU, stopped whining about national symbols and loss of "sovereignty". The symbol of cooperation and peace is so much more beautiful than what the European Nationalists have shown us during the 20th century. The common decisions (in ECB in this context) is better for everyone when it works, and I see no reason why it wouldn't.

Quoting Matt27 (Reply 13):
Sweden won't join for at least another 7-10 years. After the referendum in 2003, nobody in Sweden talks about the Euro anymore. I think the Danes are getting interested in adopting the Euro now.

I hope so. But you can be sure that as soon as a referendum is announced, the support will drop, due to the fact that it is much easier to be against something than for. It is much more convenient to keep what we have. People in this country really can't look beyond there own flag and fences.

Some of us hope that the government would announce an all-or-nothing EU vote. Either we are 100% members, or we'll join the Norway train.

This is the second best option, when the constitution don't allow the parliament to take this decision, although the general public is not qualified to.

[Edited 2005-11-13 14:57:30]
Last flight: SAW-CPH on H9 on 02/11/09 - Next Flights: 23/12/09 CPH-AAL on QI, 30/12/09 CPH-LHR on SK, 19/01/10 CPH-CDG-
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:04 pm

Quoting CPH757 (Reply 44):
Some of us hope that the government would announce an all-or-nothing EU vote. Either we are 100% members, or we'll join the Norway train.

Only without Norway's oil... Which makes all the difference in their case.
 
CPH757
Posts: 652
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:40 pm

RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:13 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 45):
Only without Norway's oil... Which makes all the difference in their case.

True. I'm certainly not in favor of that result (our oil is pork, so we have to abandon the agricultural subsidies first Big grin), as you probably already have guessed. The sad thing with Norway, is that over 3/4 of their legislation, is a direct implementation of EU legislation, which they have to adopt to fit in the market. This is another example on why a general public with huge national emontional ties should not take the decision directly.
Last flight: SAW-CPH on H9 on 02/11/09 - Next Flights: 23/12/09 CPH-AAL on QI, 30/12/09 CPH-LHR on SK, 19/01/10 CPH-CDG-
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:29 pm

Yes, in light of the often irrational and - worse - uninformed opinions prevailing among the population I think it was the right decision to leave plebiscites out of our political order in Germany...

All provided, of course, that the elected politicians are under close public scrutiny.
 
Matt27
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 9:53 pm

RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:40 pm

Quoting CPH757 (Reply 44):
I hope so. But you can be sure that as soon as a referendum is announced, the support will drop, due to the fact that it is much easier to be against something than for. It is much more convenient to keep what we have. People in this country really can't look beyond there own flag and fences.

In Sweden people said: "The Euro might be good when traveling around Europe, and company trade, but I really don't want to go to the bank and change all my Swedish kronor. Hmmm, we have it good already, so I just vote no." New things might be scary.

Quoting CPH757 (Reply 44):
This is the second best option, when the constitution don't allow the parliament to take this decision, although the general public is not qualified to.

If the Swedish parliament had decided, about 80% would have said yes to the Euro, but when the people made the decision 56% said no (!) and only 42% yes.
Man ska inte dricka rödvin i en vit hall.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5377
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: The Euro Currency, Your Opinion?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:46 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 43):
Increase in salaries, (blue-collar) worker:

Year --- Germany --- West --- East

2004 --- 2 507 --- 2 594 --- 1 920
2003 --- 2 460 --- 2 546 --- 1 874
2002 --- 2 396 --- 2 480 --- 1 833
2001 --- 2 354 --- 2 440 --- 1 795
2000 --- 2 320 --- 2 409 --- 1 759
1999 --- 2 249 --- 2 340 --- 1 728
1998 --- 2 196 --- 2 285 --- 1 691
1997 --- 2 145 --- 2 234 --- 1 657
1996 --- 2 111 --- 2 202 --- 1 626

so the increase was from 2001 to 2004 6,5%

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 43):
Increase in salaries, employees:

Year --- Germany --- West --- East

2004 --- 3 384 --- 3 470 --- 2 572
2003 --- 3 304 --- 3 389 --- 2 511
2002 --- 3 198 --- 3 285 --- 2 415
2001 --- 3 079 --- 3 167 --- 2 321
2000 --- 2 984 --- 3 071 --- 2 242
1999 --- 2 898 --- 2 984 --- 2 184
1998 --- 2 814 --- 2 899 --- 2 122
1997 --- 2 746 --- 2 832 --- 2 061
1996 --- 2 688 --- 2 778 --- 1 993

nearly 10%....


Inflation was higher the last years.

for example,

how much did you pay fort tickets from Europe to the US East coast in off-season. Fares under 500DM were normall, now you have to pay at least 400Euros with much luck maybe 350Euros.

Same for food in restaurants, not only in Berlin. Or at Bars, did you ever paid in a normal bar pre-Euro times 7 or 8 DM for a 0,4 beer? not really or, now it is normally to pay 3,50 to 5 Euro for a big beer. As pointed out before the food in supermarkets specially vegetables and fruits are much more expensive. for example in winter its normal to pay for one lettuce 1,50 to 2 euro, did you ever paid 3 to 4 german marks for on lettuce? all costs increased, due increased taxes + euro and whatever. alone the increased costs for energy (oil, electricity, fuel, gasoline) would be create at least an inflation level of 2% as mentioned before.

a inflation of 50 to 100% as mentioned before is of course too high, but a 25%to 30% is reality. And you know what that approves me? yes the anual inflationary adjustment that can be paid on my life assurance that was the last years altogether 35%

regads
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia

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