Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 51): If I got hit up for background information as much as he did I would have been more than happy to post the highlights of my resume.

Look no furthern than my posts, they run circles around your arguments, all you have in response is crying to the waaaaaaaaaaambulance because you need a link

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 49): Have you ever thought about actually putting a source to your claims

Claim to what? you want a "link" to show that every source has a bias? are you for real?

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 51): So far he has named no university or mentioned any employment, life experience, or anything.

That's because the chemtrails have blocked the permission server from his mothership. Otherwise, he'd be right on it. But because of this tragedy, he cannot tell us anything or he would risk total meltdown of the tin foil mission.   

And yes.....if I had so many enemies as this young turd does, I'd be more than willing to say something that might prove my case. For some reason, he took a shit on logic a long time ago and refuses to wipe it off.

Edit: spelling

[Edited 2005-11-16 03:40:52]

Quoting B744F (Reply 52): Look no furthern than my posts, they run circles around your arguments, all you have in response is crying to the waaaaaaaaaaambulance because you need a link

Ok so you are smarter than me. So what have you got? Where did you go to school? Did you graduate?

What do you do for a living? What part of the country do you live in? Give us some information on you. We all want to be as smart as you and it could help to shape the young and impressionable on here.


Respect is earned, not given.

I ask again, kindly point out anything I've said advocating the chemtrials conspiracy. Thank you come again

Quoting B744F (Reply 55): I ask again, kindly point out anything I've said advocating the chemtrials conspiracy. Thank you come again

Where in the recent string of posts did I bring that up? I just want to know what makes you so much smarter than all of us. You are somehow more qualified to judge world issues than all the over-educated weenies floating around in this forum. So lets see what you have.

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 40): Yet you apparently don't have any problem at all with these flights.....?

No . . . not really . . . moving prisoners is done every day . . . not just by the CIA . . .

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 40): One thing is that you don't give a shit about this issue as you have stated repeatedly throughout this thread (although the high number of replies from you in this thread suggests otherwise), another thing is whether this whole thing actually happened/happens. Now that you have admitted that these flights do in fact take place, maintaining that the thread-starter is a "conspiracy theorist" can only be labelled as a completely illogical arguementation, in other words, a Gigantic Flip-Flop.

This is so elementary, I can't understand why you don't grasp it . . .

If they happen, fine. I'm willing to concede they do, even if I could care less either way . . . what will tip off the Conspiracy Theorists here is that every gawddamn time they see an unmarked plane we'll have another frickin' thread on here about another or a NEW CIA plane . . .blah blah . . . do you get it yet?

Since there have been many threads on this subject - in Non-Av and Civ-Av, I'm willing to bet real US$$$ I'm spot on.

It's not flip flopping in the most remote sense . . .

I just wonder when we'll have the Black Helicopters and unmarked Caprice Class threads again . . .

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 48):

Pretty damn funny Oveur . . .   

Quoting B744F (Reply 55): Thank you come again

Answer his questions........

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 56): I just want to know what makes you so much smarter than all of us

Read my comments

Read yours.

End of discussion

Quoting B744F (Reply 59): Read my comments Read yours.

How about you answer my questions?

The reason nobody gives your comments any real response is the fact you back them up with NOTHING. And when someone asks you to put up or shut up you just blow more crap in their face, attempt to insult their intelligence, then claim your posts are more intelligent than those where you were asked to show facts.

Try backing something up sometime. Even the hard over lefties in this forum think you are a dumbass.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 60): Even the hard over lefties in this forum think you are a dumbass.

Not everyone does, and this simply means absolutely nothing. But again, your entire logic revolves around the opinions of other people. You are hopeless, give up and stop debating. You are way over your head here as usual. There are no questions to answer, you claim this whole CIA torture flights is just a conspiracy and the facts show you're wrong. With this much evidence you still hide behind the crying game, why should I waste my time and link you to everything to back up what I say? If you really want to know the truth go out and find it yourself, I'm not going to hold your hand or do you homework for you

Quoting B744F (Reply 61): Not everyone does, and this simply means absolutely nothing. But again, your entire logic revolves around the opinions of other people. You are hopeless, give up and stop debating. You are way over your head here as usual. There are no questions to answer, you claim this whole CIA torture flights is just a conspiracy and the facts show you're wrong. With this much evidence you still hide behind the crying game, why should I waste my time and link you to everything to back up what I say? If you really want to know the truth go out and find it yourself, I'm not going to hold your hand or do you homework for you

Chirp..............chirp...............(tin foil crinkle).............chirp

Quoting B744F (Reply 61): this simply means absolutely nothing.

Much like all of your posts

Quoting B744F (Reply 61): You are hopeless, give up and stop debating

LMAO.. Freud would call this projection

Quoting B744F (Reply 61): your entire logic revolves around the opinions of other people.

Pot, Kettle, Black. You have yet to post anything of substance. Rectal extractions are not facts. Neither are opinion polls.

Quoting B744F (Reply 61): you claim this whole CIA torture flights is just a conspiracy and the facts show you're wrong.

I am just saying I haven't seen anything conclusive that mentiones torture taking place aboard those airplanes. Got something?

So where did you go to school? What do you do for a living?

Now here is a wonderful thing ! There are people insisting the list of "CIA shell companies" is true and accurate; but, when asked how they know this is so,we are treated to ad hominem responses rather than facts...and this,as might be expected, leads to a pissing contest ; which gradually moves the original question from mind.

Just for the record,I seriously doubt anyone not presently or recently part of the CIA would be able to furnish all this shell company data,and little asterisks denoting which planes are used to transport detainees-though I concede the lads and lasses at FSB might have some data.

Personally, I think the list is a bunch of merde,drawn up by someone who is no more than a pen name; and thus, may be ignored.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 40): Really? Let's review shall we? Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 25): The local authorities (the Guardia Civil in this case) opened a formal investigation which was able to track down 10 flights between January 2004 and January 2005 (see graphic below taken from the El Pais article). What is interesting is that the El Pais article states that the Guardia Civil apparently has identified all occupants of the flights as they know exactly in which hotels they stayed, how many US nationals were aboard the flights and that the majority of them had a US passport starting with a '900' number which, according to the investigators, indicates a diplomatic status. The official police investigation concludes that they did not find any illegal activities

Nice bit of selective quoting, You've left out the most important part of that last phrase. The whole phrase said the following: "The official police investigation concludes that they did not find any illegal activities which doesn't necessarily mean none ever happened"..

The El Pais article stated that the INVESTIGATION (which took place long AFTER the planes visited the airport) into just 10 flights did not find any illegal activities. They definately did NOT conclude that "the CIA flights are NOT being conducted for nefarious purposes" as you wrongfully claimed, as the scope of the investigation has been extremely limited and it happened only after the flights occured.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 55): If they happen, fine. I'm willing to concede they do, even if I could care less either way . . . what will tip off the Conspiracy Theorists here is that every gawddamn time they see an unmarked plane we'll have another frickin' thread on here about another or a NEW CIA plane . . .blah blah . . . do you get it yet?

Oh, I certainly get that, don't worry. But what I don't understand is that you simply fail to see that one can't label people as Conspiracy Theorists when one admits these flights do in fact occur! Whether this or a future thread is about yet another CIA plane is irrelevant once you've admitted (as you did in reply # 29) these events do take place (as they have done over decades). THAT'S were you flip-flop and you know it!

And another thing: are you completely sure you could care less about this whole issue? If it interests you so little, how come you get so worked up about people starting "another frickin' thread" on these issues? Just wondering...

Another example of selective outrage - Schoenerama (and company) style.

Schoenerama (and co) who fill the bandwidth with crocidile tears, outrage and enumerable posts over the contrived Plame affair and make believe hand wringing of the safety of a CIA employee now put on their 180 shoes and try to out the CIA with a list of aircraft.

In the end, Schoenerama (and co.) really don't give a sh*t about anything but Bush bashing and or US bashing. On the other hand, who gives a sh!t what these people think. Their credibility is zip.   

Quoting B744F (Reply 53): I ask again, kindly point out anything I've said advocating the chemtrials conspiracy. Thank you come again

I think he does not even exist.....might be a monkey pounding away....

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 63): are you completely sure you could care less about this whole issue? If it interests you so little, how come you get so worked up about people starting "another frickin' thread" on these issues? Just wondering...

That's easy . . .

Same crap different day . . . there have been easily 5 threads on this CIA airplane crap in the last 2-3 days in two different forums on this site . . . they've all said pretty much the same thing - until this one - with no relevent information, consipracy theories abounded, utter surprise was rampant (like this never happened in the past) . . .

Credit where due here however, at least now there is an apparent list of them and the article you posted . . .


It's not a flip flop at all to expect every conspiracy theorist and but job to start inventing sightings, and seeing black helicopters everywhere . . . that's what I expect, and I'll bet I'm going to be right . . .

Some people on this forum are here to get real information about the news of the day (CIA planes and prisons). Some are here to just hang out and josh each other.

If you are serious, I challenge you: Google some items on the list.

Do you have a profession, a job? Then in this day and age you must be doing some research. So practice that now. Check out some plane numbers on Google.

Check out some names like Bayard Foreign Marketing.

Maybe you have an interest in aviation. Check out "CIA Gulfstream" or "CIA 737". Compare your findings to the table.

Oh, the table is accurate all right. You just won't or can't research it for some reason.

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 67): Some people on this forum are here to get real information about the news of the day (CIA planes and prisons).

I feel very sorry for you if you depend on this website as your source of 'real' information about the news of the day.   

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 67): So practice that now. Check out some plane numbers on Google.

You don't get it, do ya buddy? Nobody gives a flinging shitball about the damn list. Nobody's debating whether or not your list-compiling skills are good or not because no one cares. What's being debated is that there is no reason to get your panties in a wad because the Agency owns aircraft.   

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 67): Compare your findings to the table.

Again.....you still don't get it.

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 67): Oh, the table is accurate all right. You just won't or can't research it for some reason.

Get over yourself. The government has aircraft? Really? Are you f****** serious? Wow, I never would have thought.



Meanwhile, in more important news......Dallas won on Monday night.  

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 67): If you are serious, I challenge you: Google some items on the list.

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 67): Check out some plane numbers on Google.

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 67): You just won't or can't research it for some reason.

Ahh, Google-flavored Kool-Aid. The table may or may not be accurate. But the websites that will flypaper your Google search add/detract nothing from that.

This phenomenon is not exactly new either. There are dozens of books about the "Bermuda Triangle" that will make mention of the strange radio transmissions from the flight of Navy TBMs that disappeared from Florida. They are reported as having said things about the sea and sky not looking right and so on. Lots of books would quote these transmissions verbatim. Problem is - they never happened.

According to a videotaped statement by a Naval officer present in the radio facility at their home base for the entire duration of the event, no such radio transmissions were ever received. It appears that they were the invention of Charles Berlitz or someone he interviewed but did not do a la-la check on. Everyone else just quoted Berlitz or another author who had just quoted him. Then others quoted the quoters. It is called pastepot journalism and it has never been easier than with the internet.

Point is you can corroborate it at a thousand websites but unless the original sources of information are different no additional credibility is conferred.

My mother got most of her "real" information from Fate magazine. Though she was very intelligent, some of her realities were laughable. She'd have really enjoyed the internet had she ever got into it.

The only "torture" we can all be sure of is the self-torture the anti-torture folks inflict on their own imaginations.

One more thing, this statement:

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 31): Torture is a bad tool. Doesn't work. They'll say anything to get off easy.

. . . is only true if the torturers are incredibly stupid or just doing it for fun. You don't get questions like Where is Al Qaeda going to strike next? answered. What you do get is snippets, little bits here and there that add weight to other bits of intel. You can get new avenues to investigate, but you are not likely to get definitive answers. Yes, they will say anything. Hell, all warriors like to think they'd be brave under such circumstances, I suspect that the VC would have had to torture me to shut me up!

This is NOT a defense of torture, I disapprove of it, and its practitioners pretty heartily, but it CAN be an effective part of the intel toolkit. Spreading lies about it will not help get it eradicated.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 61): You have yet to post anything of substance

Thats a pretty broad accusation there, care to back that up with anything?

The chart is from Dana Priest of the Washington Post. Ever hear of the Washington Post?

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 63): You've left out the most important part of that last phrase.

No, I left out the speculative BS.

The post clearly indicates that the police are able to determine exactly who was on the aircraft and what they did in Spain. The conspiricy theory BS about that not clearing any wrong doing needs not be included because any rational person knows that the extent of the Spanish investigation means exactly that. The only option for something illegal to have been happening was for the US to have invisable people on those planes.

Adjust your beanie.

So far all the arguments and charts have done is show that the CIA operates airplanes. Well no duh!!! Welcome to the past 70 years. No one has shown anything to substantiate at all that these aircraft are used for illegal activities. And if you aren't completely luny, the spanish have found that they aren't.

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 64): Another example of selective outrage - Schoenerama (and company) style. Schoenerama (and co) who fill the bandwidth with crocidile tears, outrage and enumerable posts over the contrived Plame affair and make believe hand wringing of the safety of a CIA employee now put on their 180 shoes and try to out the CIA with a list of aircraft.

You fail to grasp that any outrage regarding the Plame affair has little if anything to do with protecting the CIA, but everything with denouncing politicians within this Bush Administration playing extremely dirty games. And I wouldn't give a [email protected] about the CIA-flights issue aslong as these all occured inside your country. But they don't, unfortunately!

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 66): Same crap different day . . . there have been easily 5 threads on this CIA airplane crap in the last 2-3 days in two different forums on this site . . . they've all said pretty much the same thing - until this one - with no relevent information, consipracy theories abounded, utter surprise was rampant (like this never happened in the past) . .

Of all the nov-av discussions going on right now, generally only 1 or 2 percent really interest me and I therefor limit my participation to these threads. Why don't you do the same? So far, your participation (and that of others) in this discussion has focussed almost entirely on bashing the thread-starter and those that went along with him. And all this in a discussion of which you have stated, over and over again, that you really could care less if this actually happened or not!

You are completely entitled to believe this CIA airline stuff is crap, but participating in this and other threads by bashing all those that do want to have a civilized and educated discussion on the matter is pathetic (and against board-regulations).

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 73): No, I left out the speculative BS.

We'll see about that...

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 73): The post clearly indicates that the police are able to determine exactly who was on the aircraft and what they did in Spain.

   Now THAT'S speculative bullshit! As I pointed out in my first post, the article stated that the police had apparently found out all identities of those aboard the flights and in which hotels they stayed. Nowhere does it say that they knew what they did in Spain. That's a speculative deduction from your side, not based on any facts.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 73): The conspiricy theory BS about that not clearing any wrong doing needs not be included because any rational person knows that the extent of the Spanish investigation means exactly that. The only option for something illegal to have been happening was for the US to have invisable people on those planes.

Again, the investigation happened long after these visits occurred. People on these flights were never questioned in person by the police. All information was gathered from administrative accounts (flight-plans, hotel-info, etc.). The fact that this particular investigation has not surfaced any illegal activities, does not automatically mean that none ever took place.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 73): So far all the arguments and charts have done is show that the CIA operates airplanes.

If you trully believe that, than your scope on international events is extremely limited. Yes, the CIA does operate airplanes but some of these airplanes just happened to be "at the wrong place at the wrong time" (ie, places were locals are kidnapped and places where they eventually turn up inside a foreign prison cell).

Several large US media have lately covered this and related issues (the NY Times, the November 2nd WaPo article (1) and the subsequent CIA request to investigate this particular leak to the WaPo), and than there are several other countries besides Spain which have had or have initiated similar investigations regarding sudden disappareance of it nationals, some of which later turned up inside an Egyptian prison-cell.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051102/ts_nm/security_prisons_dc

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 74): but participating in this and other threads by bashing all those that do want to have a civilized and educated discussion on the matter is pathetic (and against board-regulations).

Against board regulations?

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 74): And I wouldn't give a [email protected]

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 74): Now THAT'S speculative bullshit!

Need some help calling that kettle black? I'd just be quiet and let someone have their own opinion. You seem to think you're royally entitled to yours.

Other than that, there's a good chance that amidst your arrogance you might want to try and listen to some of the members who are from the same country as the Agency. Several might know a little more than you think.

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 74): We'll see about that...

If you have to wait to see about something you have stated to be true, then it is speculation by definition.

So let me get this straight...

The Spanish governmetn knows who arrived on the plane, by name none the less. They know who left on the plane... again by name. They know where the people stayed in between the flight operations... by name again. But somehow, the CIA managed to smuggle people onto or off of that plane without the people who wrote lists A and B noticeing them?

Some one did have to make those lists you know. That means someone, probably a Spanish customs officer met those planes. In order for your accusations to be true, members of the Spanish government have to be complicit with the CIA.

Of course, as most always is the case with conspriacy theories, there would be an easier way. Cram subject in the boot of a car, and drive them to a US military airfield... where there doesn't need to be a record of who goes on what plane.

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 74): Yes, the CIA does operate airplanes but some of these airplanes just happened to be "at the wrong place at the wrong time" (ie, places were locals are kidnapped and places where they eventually turn up inside a foreign prison cell).

Wow... I guess it was B744F that was going to make this statement... but I guess one tin foil beanie club member is just as good as another.

Schoenorama, I think you fail to see that you are not making yourself look very good on this subject. My opinion of course. Opinions are wonderful. Everyone has them!


Thank you very much.

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 74): You are completely entitled to believe this CIA airline stuff is crap, but participating in this and other threads by bashing all those that do want to have a civilized and educated discussion on the matter is pathetic (and against board-regulations).

Your solution, Sir, is the magic Suggest Delete button . . . it appears to work rather well.

That said: My bashing is not directed at the Thread Starter alone - it is directed at anyone, posting or otherwise, that will turn this entire issue - whether it be bullshit or not, into another Conspiracy Theorist Love Fest. In that my remarks are not generally directed to any specific person - no rules have been violated. But, as I said, hit that magic button . . . I'm not immune.

Now, as I was saying earlier in this thread . . . . first, only the real extreme peace-niks, blinded as to the real world, will give a hoot in hell whether the CIA has airplanes or not . . . since they've had them for decades, and done exactly what they're doing now with them, appears I'm right . . . only the real extreme peace-nik nut jobs have a hardon over the whole issue. If the combat boot fits . . . .

There have been no less than six threads now on this same subject . . . mostly started by one member who appears to be so obsessed over the whole thing he started two threads with exactly the same data (you missed that earlier today) and added the same data to a third thread . . . . the person you should direct your attentions to - as for educated civilized discussion ought to be him - with his accusatory words, CAPTIAL LETTERS, and finger pointing inuendo.

But I digress . . .

My only care about this whole thing is as I've stated.

As for what I think of the CIA Air Force . . . I don't. I could care less. Let them move who they want where they want . . . .if you're not a bad guy then I doubt you'll ever have to experience it. If you're a terrorists - in reality or theory - you might. In that light - too bad for you asshole.

If you're a country that supports and assists this activity, fine. If you don't, fine. Whan the terrorist assholes come creeping at your doorstep and you seek assistance - don't call us, we'll call you . . . .

Terrorists-R-US

By US I mean the United States. The United States has done the same thing Saddam Hussein did: Launched chemical attacks against civilians. That is in the news today: the white phosphorus (WP) attacks on Fallujah civilians. I know some here accept only what they already believe and will deny this. They are unable to learn. We have found the WMD. They are ours and we have used them.

About this thread, first the self-appointed critics say they don't care. Then they say the 2 (two) charts (SEE ABOVE) are BS.

All of that is debunked by Schoenorama and others, so they, like the Patriot Act, try to resort to censorship: Delete the thread they say. What next, claim like Bush that we are trying to "reinvent history"?

Some moderators seem to agree with censorship. If this thread is removed, then clearly the board is of limited usefulness as a forum. I would resign and expect a refund. Why would anyone hang around a place that bans serious discussions but provides a rumpus room for middle-aged men to engage in adolescent jibes and inside jive?

The table shows the planes of the CIA. This is an aviation forum and these planes are the news of the day. The media are talking about this but they can't show the table. This thread has filled that gap.

The chart shows how the CIA Airline works. The CIA's Airline is as important as any airline discussed on this board. The Washington Post showed the CIA a similar chart. The CIA said "no comment," and the Post declined to publish what you see above (the chart).

What you see here is what serious boards are for: serious discussions of the topic the board advertises. So far, the thread remains and has a big following, and the advertising is not false, yet.

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 79): The United States has done the same thing Saddam Hussein did: Launched chemical attacks against civilians. That is in the news today: the white phosphorus (WP) attacks on Fallujah civilians. I know some here accept only what they already believe and will deny this. They are unable to learn. We have found the WMD. They are ours and we have used them.

   Old news, discussed to death here: Chemical Weapons In Iraq (by MD-90 Nov 11 2005 in Non Aviation)
Go read up on it if you can tear yourself away from the Google CIA 737 Button.

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 79): About this thread, first the self-appointed critics say they don't care. Then they say the 2 (two) charts (SEE ABOVE) are BS.

No we say we don't care and we contend no one can prove these are CIA planes, and if that is so proven, no one has yet to confirm your "findings" that they are used as "torture"    aircraft. Don't twist the words to fit your bastardized theories.

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 79): Some moderators seem to agree with censorship

Nooooo, Hero, some moderators followed the rules - no duplicate posts/ threads; thread bumping, which you broke, handily, inside of 30 minutes, got called on it, now you're crying about it . . . . well, Boooo Fuckin' Hooooo.

One of the most liberal (american style) UK members even told you you'd screwed the dog on that issue . . . is that so hard for you to comprehend?

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 79): If this thread is removed, then clearly the board is of limited usefulness as a forum. I would resign and expect a refund.

Why would they remove this thread? It's not a duplicate? It's not a triplicate?

Sounds like the moderators hurt your feelings . . . and they just did their jobs . . . you'll just have to accept that and grow up . . . . . or not   

That said: I'd pay real US    to see it go . . . . just to watch you self-destruct . . . . oh, FYI - there are no refunds . . . . the topic is valid and has point, but your constant sniveling is reallllly beginning to bore the shit out of us . . . .

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 79): The chart shows how the CIA Airline works.

Goood . . . at least they're on time and on target . . . better than 90% of the schedule carriers in this country today . . . . I bet they even feed the poor bastards on the planes! No IFE, no free booze, but hey, you can't do better on NW!!!

As for the comparison of CIA Airlines versus US airlines, does NW cut off your clothers and shorts with a pair of scissors and put you in a jumpsuit?

Does United need to stick a drug suppository up your butt? Is that better than "free booze"?

Does American need to put you in shackles, bound hand and foot, to make you travel with them?

Does Continental tie you to a mattress for protection against turbulence?

The US airlines may not be on time, but they only lose your baggage. With CIA Airlines, you might be on time but you don't know where you are going to end up. You can be sure that it is in some hellhole where the police use torture. Do they use torture in your city?

You know nothing of intel work. Torture doesn't work. That is the main argument spooks use against it.

I have a question for you: What is the GS level (government pay grade) for a board wathcer? How many of you does it take to cover the name ANCFlyer around the clock? 3? 4? Nice work if you can get it.

GDoole01, I seriously doubt you are an American based on your commentary style and how your profile is written. What you sound like is a disgruntled European and an American hater. So, come clean and tell us who you are exactly.

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 81): What is the GS level (government pay grade) for a board wathcer?

i think the word you meant was "watcher".

As to the question, I don't know . . . .might be interesting to find out . . . could add to the retirement pay Pacific Journey already helps fund!

Quoting ClipperHawaii (Reply 82): GDoole01, I seriously doubt you are an American based on your commentary style and how your profile is written. What you sound like is a disgruntled European and an American hater. So, come clean and tell us who you are exactly.

You DO have a point CH . . . .

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 81): Does Continental tie you to a mattress for protection against turbulence?

Nope, those BF seats are reallllly nice . . . no need for matresses.

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 81): Does American need to put you in shackles, bound hand and foot, to make you travel with them?

I don't fly with AA, but I believe if I did the seat belt would be quite sufficient.

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 81): Does United need to stick a drug suppository up your butt? Is that better than "free booze"?

No, even United's domestic F provides free booze, and they were quite exemplary in their service last month when I flew ANC-DEN and return . . . damn good wine, and not a bad dinner either on the return . . .

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 81): does NW cut off your clothers and shorts with a pair of scissors and put you in a jumpsuit?

No, never had them do that . . . .worst they could do was provide the worst domestic F service I've had in a long time . . . I thought the F/A reminded me of an old Drill Sergeant . . . .

Do you see how utterly laughable you're becoming Gdoole01. Do you?

Perhaps you ought to join your buddy B744F at the Mothership Download point . . . time to reboot your hard drive, dump your cache and re-install the reality software.

Quoting ClipperHawaii (Reply 82): So, come clean and tell us who you are exactly.

Just a "thought", maybe crazy......but what IF, the members of this forum chose not to respond to posts from certain members who avoid identification, or are suspected of fraudulent identity, or do not cite any personal experiences to qualify their opinion?
Or..would that be suppression?

See what I mean about being an American? Just read his posts.

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 84): I love America! They join Italy's Silvio Berlusconi in his Clash of Civilizations and they throw out theirs!

"They"? or "We"?

*sets ignore on this lunatic*

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 81): I have a question for you: What is the GS level (government pay grade) for a board wathcer? How many of you does it take to cover the name ANCFlyer around the clock? 3? 4? Nice work if you can get it.

Considering I was a GS-4, I should hope that it would be a higher paygrade so he at least gets his own office. ANC deserves at least that rather than be consigned to a   

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 84): I love America! They join Italy's Silvio Berlusconi in his Clash of Civilizations and they throw out theirs! America tortures. America uses WMD. America uses uranium weapons (uranium shells) America wars on civilians and counts them as "insurgents" or "collateral damage." America detains people without charges, permanently. America lies about Iraqi WMD and uses its own. America wages unprovoked wars. All of these are rejections of America's heritage as a liberal democracy. However, America prosecutes Scooter Libby and Larry Franklin and investigates Karl Rove. The prosecutors are closing in. The war crimes and criminals will be exposed. America will have the rule of law. The American people will "throw the rascals (Republicans) out." They will right the wrongs of George W. Bush. So, when all is said and done, I love America and I am loving it more today than I have in a while.

Why the hell didn't you say al lthis in the beginning and save yourself the CIA Air Force nut job bullshit?

We could have Suggested Deletion on grounds that it's pure flamebait - which it is - of course buried deep in a thread like this. . . likely not to draw much attention.

Quoting Kevinl1011 (Reply 85): not to respond to posts from certain members

  

Quoting Kevinl1011 (Reply 85): are suspected of fraudulent identity,

I think it's time the Mods gave a look at the ISP . . . .

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 87): I should hope that it would be a higher paygrade so he at least gets his own office.

Ever see those offices at the Pentagon??? Man, my crapper in the house is bigger than my old Pentagon office (and I was a Directorate CSM) . . . . give me a cubicle in an open bay any time . . . . let me breathe.

On a lighter note . . . I see GDoole01 has finally shown his true intent and colors . . . just another ultra-extremist lefty . . .

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 88): Ever see those offices at the Pentagon??? Man, my crapper in the house is bigger than my old Pentagon office (and I was a Directorate CSM) . . . . give me a cubicle in an open bay any time . . . . let me breathe.

Considering I was with the US Attorney's Office, the "offices" were fairly decent, especially those in the corner offices. The US Attorney (Strom Thurmond, Jr. while I worked at USAO-SC) himself had a fairly nice set-up including a wall-mounted plasma TV that was truly drool-worthy.

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 89): The US Attorney (Strom Thurmond, Jr. while I worked at USAO-SC) himself had a fairly nice set-up including a wall-mounted plasma TV that was truly drool-worthy.

The suits . . . .civilians . . . political appointees . . . at the Pentagon got the nice spaces . . . not us voluntary conscripts . . . I have no real complaints though, at least I was on E-Ring, 2nd Floor, so I could look out to something besides another Ring . . . even if it was a view of Crystal City and I-395. . . .

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 74): Against board regulations?

Rule # 1a: "Please word all criticism, whether of another user's opinion, a photograph, crew member, a political topic, etc., in a constructive manner. Criticism which serves no purpose other than to flame or insult will be deleted and your account possibly suspended."

Rule #3: "Do not post a message on how you find a topic or user irrelevant, boring, childish or stupid."

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 74): Need some help calling that kettle black? I'd just be quiet and let someone have their own opinion. You seem to think you're royally entitled to yours.

Of course people are entitled to having their own opinion, but one thing is expressing an opinion, another thing is misrepresenting the contents of an article. It's this misrepresenting which lead you to a conclusion which simply wasn't there. See my comment below on the alleged "Spanish Customs officer who met the planes as they arrived".

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 74): Other than that, there's a good chance that amidst your arrogance you might want to try and listen to some of the members who are from the same country as the Agency. Several might know a little more than you think.

So far, only GDoole01 has posted anything of substance on this issue and he is from the same country as the agency, if I am not mistaken.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 75): The Spanish governmetn knows who arrived on the plane, by name none the less. They know who left on the plane... again by name. They know where the people stayed in between the flight operations... by name again. But somehow, the CIA managed to smuggle people onto or off of that plane without the people who wrote lists A and B noticeing them?

The "people who wrote" lists A and B, to use your expression, based their info on administrative data. They did not perform a check at the platform the moment the plane arrived. Having the names of the people who travelled on that plane on certain flights doesn't necessarily mean those were all people aboard that plane.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 75): Some one did have to make those lists you know. That means someone, probably a Spanish customs officer met those planes.

Re-read my original post, will you? If you wouldn't have used "selective quoting" a few posts back, you would have noticed what my first post said on this specific issue: "The investigation happened after the flights occurred". This means that no Spanish customs officer met those planes as they arrived/departed!

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 75): Cram subject in the boot of a car, and drive them to a US military airfield... where there doesn't need to be a record of who goes on what plane.

Perfectly possible, although there aren't too many all-US military airfields left in Europe and there's also the additional risk of getting discovered by local authorities while driving to such an airfield as cars would have to stop ocassionally to get gas, for sanitation, to eat, etc. Not to mention the risk of blowing their cover in case they are involved in an accident which potentially has some tremendous diplomatic implications.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 75): Wow... I guess it was B744F that was going to make this statement... but I guess one tin foil beanie club member is just as good as another.

If you are unable to maintain a civilized discussion, then I see no point is continueing this discussion with you. I am really getting sick and tired of this pathetic behaviour of some of the users in this and other threads. If you don't agree with me or another user, let's stick to the topic and refrain from taking cheap and childish shots at other users!

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 77): Your solution, Sir, is the magic Suggest Delete button . . . it appears to work rather well.

I've already used that button quite a few times in this thread alone. But users like yourself should know by now how civilized discussions are supposed to be held and refrain from making these of-topic posts in the first place.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 77): Now, as I was saying earlier in this thread . . . . first, only the real extreme peace-niks, blinded as to the real world, will give a hoot in hell whether the CIA has airplanes or not . . . since they've had them for decades, and done exactly what they're doing now with them, appears I'm right . . . only the real extreme peace-nik nut jobs have a hardon over the whole issue.

&

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 77): As for what I think of the CIA Air Force . . . I don't. I could care less. Let them move who they want where they want . . . .if you're not a bad guy then I doubt you'll ever have to experience it. If you're a terrorists - in reality or theory - you might. In that light - too bad for you asshole. If you're a country that supports and assists this activity, fine. If you don't, fine. Whan the terrorist assholes come creeping at your doorstep and you seek assistance - don't call us, we'll call you . . .

And this is where we finally get to the core of the issue, of your issue with this topic, that is. You could care less whether these flights occur or not because, deep down below, you actually support them. Why didn't you say so in your first reply? It sure would have saved us all alot of time.

This discussion is about whether these flights actually took place. Whether one approves them is a whole different subject. Up until now, you have desperately tried to avoid admitting your true opinion on these flights (you even concurred with the thread-started that torture is a bad thing and to me you responded that you do not condone it). In stead of admitting this in your first replies, you resorted to cheap name-calling stating this and other threads are for Conspiracy Theorists, a claim you still maintain even though you are aware these flights actually occur.

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 78): What you see here is what serious boards are for: serious discussions of the topic the board advertises. So far, the thread remains and has a big following, and the advertising is not false, yet.

I completely agree with you! Unfortunately, over and over again discussions on this board are 'hijacked' by users with completely off-topic replies, cheap name-calling and telling each other how good they think a certain off-topic post has been. It's getting pathetic. Sometimes I have the impression this is the Kindergarten-section of a.net.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 79): but your constant sniveling is reallllly beginning to bore the shit out of us . . . .

Who's this us???? Again, if you are soooo bored with this topic, refrain from replying. As simple as that!

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 80): As for the comparison of CIA Airlines versus US airlines, does NW cut off your clothers and shorts with a pair of scissors and put you in a jumpsuit?

When the f*ck have you witnessed the passengers? I'd be quiet........

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 80): Does United need to stick a drug suppository up your butt?

Once again, when the f*ck have you witnessed the passengers? I'd be quiet.......

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 80): Does American need to put you in shackles, bound hand and foot, to make you travel with them?

Yet again, when the f*ck have you witnessed the passengers? I'd be quiet.......

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 80): Does Continental tie you to a mattress for protection against turbulence?

Once more for kicks, when the f*ck have you witnessed the passengers? I'd be quiet.......

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 80): Do they use torture in your city?

And finally, when the f*ck have you witnessed the passengers? I'd be quiet.......

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 80): You know nothing of intel work. Torture doesn't work.

Apparently, the only person knowing nothing of intel work is you, partner. Take a little bite of humble pie, admit your arrogance is overwhelming you, sit down and wack your wang.......you'll make more progress in life. As for intel work, how about you leave that to the people who specialize in it?   

Quoting GDoole01 (Reply 80): How many of you does it take to cover the name ANCFlyer around the clock?

How many of you does it take to breast-feed conspiracy bullshit into your head at the wee hours of night?

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 89): So far, only GDoole01 has posted anything of substance on this issue and he is from the same country as the agency, if I am not mistaken.

                

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 89): The "people who wrote" lists A and B, to use your expression, based their info on administrative data. They did not perform a check at the platform the moment the plane arrived. Having the names of the people who travelled on that plane on certain flights doesn't necessarily mean those were all people aboard that plane.

So... Spain doesn't indeed perform customs inspections of arriveing international aircraft?

I'm sorry, I was baseing my thoughts on Spain being competant.

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 89): This means that no Spanish customs officer met those planes as they arrived/departed!

Yes, yes... you've already stated that Spain is painfully incompetant.

I find one question nagging in my brain though... If Spain doesn't indeed employee customs officials (*snort laugh*), then just who did collect the information on who was on those planes? Was the CIA kind enough to volutarily write their names on a piece of paper and leave it on the counter?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 91): So... Spain doesn't indeed perform customs inspections of arriveing international aircraft?

Spain does perform customs inspections (which you could have deducted if you'd read my previous posts more accurately) but these do not necessarily have to take place upon the physical arrival of a plane (as in "Custom Officers meeting the planes as they arrive at the platform")! And these Customs Inspections are severly limited when the passengers/crew of such a flight have a diplomatic status as the majority of them, according to the Spanish police-investigation, actually had.

And as long as there are no serious suspicions, visual inspections inside aircraft are generally not performed, specially when the plane has an US registration. In case these flights had a diplomatic status as appears to be the case, a visual inspection inside the aircraft would have been completely impossible.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 91): If Spain doesn't indeed employee customs officials (*snort laugh*), then just who did collect the information on who was on those planes? Was the CIA kind enough to volutarily write their names on a piece of paper and leave it on the counter?

Again, they did go through Customs but NOT at the physical arrival of the plane at the platform. The information on who officially was onboard these planes was most probably obtained from the normal everyday Custom records (as already stated in replies # 73 and 89!) and possibly even from the hotels were they stayed. Yet this doesn't mean, as you appear to believe, that if Customs found Flight A had X passengers (with all their names), that these were in fact all the people who travelled on that flight.

You are getting even more bizare now. So let me see if I still follow you. Customs did infact have to at some time, not apparently neccessarily at the airport, meet the people comeing from the flight at least to the extent of writeing down their names and passports numbers... but that doesn't really mean customs knows who was on the plane because apparenlty the CIA is in the habit of leaving people onboard aircraft, unattended mind you, overnight? Or did the CIA leave people onboard the plane to monitor the secret prisoners and the Spanish ground crews just didn't happen to notice them?

Oh, by the way... just to demonstrate how many straws you are now grasping at... Just because an aircraft is carrying individuals with diplomatic passports, does not mean the aircraft itself, or it's operators have diplomatic protection. In this case, the "CIA" planes are registered and operated by a private company. They are NOT property of the US government. They do NOT have any diplomatic protection. If those planes were not treated exactly like any other privately owned and operated aircraft, the Spanish government needs to investigate itself.

Quoting Schoenorama (Reply 92): Again, they did go through Customs but NOT at the physical arrival of the plane at the platform

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 93):    If those planes were not treated exactly like any other privately owned and operated aircraft, the Spanish government needs to investigate itself.

Jeepers Wally.......I kinda feel wierd....like somebody is makin' stuff up.

Quoting Kevinl1011 (Reply 94): Jeepers Wally.......I kinda feel wierd....like somebody is makin' stuff up.

Yes, its a funny feeling, isn't it? Unfortunately, this site brings it out a lot. I'm throwing the    on this guy.......he doesn't even know what he's saying, let alone what's he's trying to prove.

Quoting B744F (Reply 70): Thats a pretty broad accusation there, care to back that up with anything?

I'll make you a deal.. The second you back something up I will too.. Deal? Great!


I am still waiting to hear about the education and employment that has made you into such a genius.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 96): I am still waiting to hear about the education and employment that has made you into such a genius.

Well, don't hold your breath for a week! Our fuzzy little friend is finally on a long-overdue hiatus.   

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 97): Our fuzzy little friend is finally on a long-overdue hiatus

"Ding Dong the bitch is gone, Which 'ol bitch? The wicked bitch! Doing Dong the wicked bitch is goooooone!"

One down....2 to go.

Quoting Kevinl1011 (Reply 98): One down....2 to go