lamedianaranja
Posts: 1195
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:21 am

RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Mon Nov 14, 2005 7:46 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 32):
is there anyone out there that still thinks she's been killed? T

Me and my Aruban colleagues agree that she must have been skinny-dipping at Shark's Rock and with the amount of alcohol she consumed something went wrong. Only question remaining is why JvdS (Dutchie) doesn't own up, if he was there.
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
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drerx7
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RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:36 pm

Scores of people have gone missing in Alabama (ahem civil rights) in the past century and we aren't boycotting them  Yeah sure
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
Glareskin
Posts: 1014
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:35 pm

RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:59 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 27):
By the way the boycott was called for by the Governor of Alabama, and has no official backing the United States government.

But I know that the Dutch foreign minister Bot asked for an explanation from the US govt. I'm not aware of the answer.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 27):
There are 290 million in the US, how many people live in Holland and Aruba, if not one single person from either country visited the US it would not even register here.

Hmm, you must live very local I suppose. This is a very bold statement. First of all: it is not all about numbers. Eventhough The Netherlands and the Dutch Antilles have only about 17 million inhabitants the US would notice the difference. The Netherlands is one of the largest investors (absolute capital!) in the US for many years. There are traditional strong ties between the two countries and of course a part of the American roots lie in The Netherlands.

Ignoring 17 million is ridiculous anyway. You wouldn't know the difference if NYC wouldn't be there anymore?
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
 
B707Stu
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RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:03 am

If I follow the logic behind this boycott then if you believe OJ killed Nicole we should all be boycotting California? Ridiculous.
 
UN_B732
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RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:08 am

Is Serbia and Montenegro hampering the authorities search for a missing girl?


-Mr. X
What now?
 
afrikaskyes
Topic Author
Posts: 118
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RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:53 am

The question of how this will affect US Airways operations in Aruba was just brought up on Fox News' "Dayside." They suggested jobs might be affected and that the US folks in Phili are concerned. Beth Twitty responded with...

"Safety for the children is our priority and the boycott will go on....."

So forget about the good people in Aruba who work for US Airways.

[Edited 2005-11-16 20:01:28]
 
B744F
Posts: 2927
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:52 pm

RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:20 am

stop watching the news and they won't get such high ratings for reporting this nonsense
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
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RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:54 am

I've been to Aruba twice. It is my favorite caribbean island with the most magnificent scenery and beaches. I know despite this boycott I would try to book a trip there anytime of the year.

Airlines fly a good amount there. I doubt they would limit operations.

Tommy in EWR/LAX
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
AEROFAN
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RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:46 am

that's america for you. one idiotic blonde bimbette does something stupid and what happens? everyone must pay for it!! only in america!! to hear the news media - no one else has ever disappeared. there aren't people currently being blown apart in iraq for no good reason...!
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8327
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:40 am

Quoting COfaninBOS (Reply 19):
How about we boycott Alabama?

If this girl was from Washington, DC, and her parents were, say, college administrators, I suspect all the childish sniping would be significantly reduced.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8327
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:09 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 18):
In what ways incompetent?

Well, let's see...from media reports:

(1) They initially told the parents that this happened all the time and the girl would turn up, suggesting that maybe she had voluntarily fled the Island without her passport and maybe was hooking in Venezuela voluntarily;

(2) They initially asked the parents how rich the parents were (red flag right there);

(3) They did a half-assed interview with the 3 people last seen with her, and bought their story since Daddy worked for the justice dept, and arrested some black guys who turned out to be nobody, without further investigating the kids within The First 48;

(4) The kids MADE ADMISSIONS, which weren't further or properly investigated, and the kids have been allowed to confer to get their stories straight;

(5) They waited far, far too long to search the houses and vehicles of the last people to see her alive;

(6) The police and prosecutors were "too busy" to let Equisearch bring millions of dollars of equipment onto the Island to look for a body -- they should have welcomed every bit of aid, particularly since the authorities have basically admitted that they're not really doing anything anymore to find bodies -- and they have been a hindrance rather than a help in many cases where folks were looking in various places for the body;

(7) Private investigators continue to turn up evidence that the police overlooked or missed;

(8) They have now tried to blame the victim and her parents;

(9) Folks from world-class police departments like New York, LA and Chicago have talked about what they would do differently now, and what they would have done differently then;

(10) There are glaring conflicts of interest wherein folks involved in the investigation are overtly inclined towards the interests of the local father;

(11) They keep doing stuff like saying, "Well, we'll wait until the kid gets back from college to interview him further." Puh-leese. Imagine if a New York detective told the New York Times that he would wait a month to interview a known suspect whom he admittedly wants to question but is presently out of the jurisdiction. Here, the guy would call the authorities wherever the witness is, and get on a friggin' plane to go interview him.

These people obviously weren't used to handling matters like this. That's fine, and a nice thing in a way. But they have refused proffered help, and have continued to compound their mistakes.

To say that American investigations haven't been subject to media scrutiny is just crap. I can give you a few examples: (1) The bombing of Centennial Olympic Park in Atlanta at the Olympics, where there was incredible media pressure and where the local authorities were basically forced to reach out for help, and good thing, since they snagged the wrong guy at first; (2) JonBenet Ramsey, which the media still pays attention to, and where the local authorities, very much like here, botched the investigation because stuff like that didn't happen in rural Colorado, then compounded their mistakes out of pride, and where cold-case detectives may be able to put something together years from now; (3) Michael Jackson's many episodes; (4) the Lacy Peterson investigation; (5) that Washington intern investigation.

While Aruba-defenders may say that, "Hey, girls get drunk and stupid and raped all the time all over the world, not just here," that's not really an excuse for a flawed investigation. This girl didn't "just" get raped, she got dead. We know this because one of the Kalpoe twins ADMITTED that "something bad happened" to her after they admittedly gang-banged her. To say that girls on Spring Break get drunk and raped and killed all the time isn't either: (a) correct or (b) defensible. It's an unusual, horrible event that deserves immense scrutiny and swift punishment wherever it occurs. If it happened in Fort Lauderdale, it would get publicity and intense political pressure would be put on the local authorities by State and Federal investigators and politicians to do the job effectively and to permit them to bring their considerable expertise and resources to bear on the investigation. Because Aruba is a soverign country, the only way to bring the political pressure that would be brought in the States is by doing what they are now doing. And, frankly, if it keeps one more 17-year-old from ending up dead on Spring Break, fine by me.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8327
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:30 am

Quoting Aerofan (Reply 58):
one idiotic blonde bimbette does something stupid and what happens?

This is what a government is SUPPOSED to do for its citizens. At the peak of Roman rule in Europe, nobody dared harm a Roman citizen as he or she travelled about. Why? Because it was known that the full wrath of Rome would be brought to bear on any person or government, anywhere in the world, that harmed a citizen. It was that simple, and that basic tenet allowed for enormous strides towards an integrated civilization of laws over an area the size of tens of present-day countries at a time where communications travelled at foot-speed. The rule of law was backed with the threat of the sword, and nobody screwed with the Romans because they knew what the consequences would be. The threat was enough to control behavior almost all the time; where the threat wasn't enough, an example was made and the threat became enough again.

New York City has a population of almost ten million, and a police force of 35,000 sworn officers. That's one officer for about 300 people, which would be insufficient to control the populace, Chuck Norris and "One Riot, One Ranger" nothwithstanding. However, for most people, the threat presented by the police force keeps most people in line, and they spend most of their time making an example out of a relatively small number of people who commit the vast majority of crimes. At the end of the day, it's still the threat of the sword that supports the rule of law. (Of course, basic adherence by most people to the concept of the rule of law through a representative democracy is also a part of why we see relatively few riots here in the States.)

This woman was an American citizen, and goddamn right the government of her country should be kicking ass over what happened to her. We should be doing more, not less, to protect our citizens as they travel around the world. Just as the Arubans should be pissed if somebody offs that Van Der Sloot kid wherever it is that he is in college.

[Edited 2005-11-17 00:38:34]
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13088
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:43 am

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 36):
There's 3 reasons why this is still in the news:

1 - She's rich
2 - She's attractive
3 - She's white

That has to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard. It is still in the news because the FOX and CNN eat up these stories when young girls disappear. This story got worse when we say how bad Aruba handles their police work. For you to infer that her mother is in the news because she is white is total nonsense. Give me a break.

As for the boycott I think her mother is reaching and lashing out at Aruba because she knows her daughter is dead and nobody will ever be brought to trial and she won't find any remains either. Which is devastating. I think Aruba's tourism has suffered a little but in the long run it will return to normal, in fact will morbidly benefit from the case. As people will want to go to the bar when she spent her last night.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
afrikaskyes
Topic Author
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:56 am

RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:53 am

There's 3 reasons why this is still in the news:

1 - She's rich
2 - She's attractive
3 - She's white


.....He's right. You can say the same about Elizabeth Smart and that looney runaway bride in Atlanta.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:39 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 18):
There's no evidence she was murdered or left the island involuntarilly, only hearsay from people who said she MUST have been murdered because she didn't appear at breakfast and wasn't in her room one day.
The people she was last seen with were automatically arrested as the most likely suspects in a crime that was probably never comitted.

There was more to it than that, but hey, who cares, right?

Quoting RedAirForce (Reply 29):
I love the nitwits here who say she left the island alive (you must know what no one else does, or you are just plain dumb) or that she was sleeping with half the island (no, she is not Dutch, so I doubt she was doing that).

I think that was Kahala777.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 32):
Pffff, is there anyone out there that still thinks she's been killed? There should have been evidence by now, don't you think? I think she just 'disapeared' for either tax reasons, insurance reasons, or for being pregnant... and escaping for it.

People on here care more about AC's new livery than the life of someone's daughter. Amazing. It's one thing to defend the Aruba justice system - I don't know anything about it, so I have nothing to say about it - but it's another to put forth your theories just to put Aruba in a better light.

Quoting CO787 (Reply 41):
Although she may have gone missing, you can't blame the Aruban Government for that because the same thing happens all over the world as well.

While it's true that the government isn't responsible for her death, they are responsible for the justice system. The anger results from what has been listed above concerning how they handled it.

Quoting PHLAUA (Reply 46):
I'm not saying that their may not have been mistakes made, but these journalists and others who are leading this crusade just don't seem to care that legal systems in countries other than the US's are different.

Again, that's true, but perhaps the fact that they handle things differently is a good thing to discuss. Aruba sounds like a wonderful place. If they handled it well, there wouldn't be an issue right now. It seems, though, that behind the scenes there was some errors made early on, and they ultimately may have let the case be lost due to incompetence or false assumptions.

If you are going to Aruba (or the US, UK, Germany, etc.) you should at least be aware that your safety is not assured. Maybe having that knowledge put in our faces will help others think twice about sending their kids off to other nations for drinking and who knows what else.

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 50):
Me and my Aruban colleagues agree that she must have been skinny-dipping at Shark's Rock and with the amount of alcohol she consumed something went wrong. Only question remaining is why JvdS (Dutchie) doesn't own up, if he was there.

Maybe because he (they) killed her? Maybe because he (they) drugged her? Maybe because he (they) raped her? Maybe because he (they) felt they were above the law? Maybe because the officials let it get out of hand, and now it would ruin their reputation if it turned out they botched it just to save a politicians (or whoevers) son?

Quoting Aerofan (Reply 58):
there aren't people currently being blown apart in iraq for no good reason...!

We knew someone would draw a link between Aruba and Iraq. Typical.

Let me tell you: If it was my family member, I would be all over the authorities looking for answers, and I'm sure you would as well. The fact that so many things went wrong in this case is why it's still news and (partially) why a boycott was called. I'm not condoning the boycott, but just saying how I see it.

Relating to aviation, I know when I fly to Mexico that we are NOT in our home country. It doesn't mean it's safer or more dangerous, it just means that the rules are different, the culture is different, and just because it's sunny and warm doesn't mean that we should feel like throwing our brains out the window for a week long drinking binge.

If this case does anything, hopefully it isn't to hurt the Aruban people, but to educate the moronic Americans who think that sending their child to another country alone is somehow responsible. It isn't. If something happens, it could be the exact same story.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8327
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:19 pm

Bravo, Dave. I'm adding you to my respected user's list.

--Bill
 
kiwiandrew

RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:38 pm

I suggest this whole thread be moved to non-aviation - it started out about the effects of the boycott on airlines - but that didn't last long - now it is just a boring and repetitive slanging match - and by my count only about 5 of the 66 replies so far have had even the remotest connection to the original topic ( which in case you've forgotten , and I think most of you have , was "The Aruba Boycott and US Carriers" )
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:40 pm

Likewise, Bill. I meant to thank you for your thoughtful post when I made mine, but I was working at the same time and needed to rap it up. Great job!

I normally try to avoid the political type threads - it really zaps the enjoyment of aviation for me - but it is so hard to listen to people bash this girl who may or may not have met a very horrible ending when they should focus on the topic - the boycott and it's affect on the airlines.

Personally, i don't know as though it makes a lot of sense to try something like this boycott, as it's really too late to change anything that's happened, but if that's what the guy wants to call for, focus the disagreement on him. Last I checked, the girl didn't rise up and request it herself.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 62):
As for the boycott I think her mother is reaching and lashing out at Aruba because she knows her daughter is dead and nobody will ever be brought to trial and she won't find any remains either. Which is devastating. I think Aruba's tourism has suffered a little but in the long run it will return to normal, in fact will morbidly benefit from the case.

I agree. Like so many other situations, when someone feels they (or a loved one) have been wronged, and it looks like no one is able to really help, one keeps grasping, hoping for either the cavalry to arrive or a miracle to occur. If her parents felt that things hadn't been so screwed up, they wouldn't likely be prolonging their own pain. Instead, they have to go through a horrible period of wondering if everything has been done to catch the killer.

In the end, though, tourism to the island will likely feel very little impact, and if the comments in this thread are any indication, it may actually have helped.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
northernlights
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 8:13 pm

RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:18 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 27):
While I agree with you that a boycott of Aruba is insane, a boycott of the United States by Holland and Aruba would never work. There are 290 million in the US, how many people live in Holland and Aruba, if not one single person from either country visited the US it would not even register here. However, if every US citizen boycotted Aruba their economy would take a real hit.

Dear 474218,

OK there are 290 million living in the US and only about 16,5 million live in the Kingdom of the Netherlands (The Netherlands, Netherlands Antilles and Aruba).

But...
The Netherlands is the eighth-largest U.S. export market, as well as the fourth-largest direct investor in the United States. Dutch accumulated direct investment in the United States in 2003 was $146 billion. The Dutch are the largest per capita investor in the US economy, $ 9,754 per person, compared to Nr 2 Canada ($ 3,394), Nr 3 United Kingdom ($ 3,629), Nr 4 France ($ 2,453), Nr 5 Germany ($ 1,863) and Nr 6 Japan ($ 1,252)
Airline talk: if KLM Royal Dutch Airlines did not take a stake in troubled NW in the 80´s, I am afraid NW would have been gone looooooooooooong ago!

source of the figures: US department of State http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3204.htm#econ

Being a tiny nation compared to a giant one like the US, the Kingdom of the Netherlands can nevertheless seriously harm the US when it comes to a boycott war, LOL  bigthumbsup 

This boycott story, as most sane persons here on a.net admit, is just BS!!! Don´t misunderstand me, I feel sorry for the relatives of the missing person, but this just goes too far...

Funny... I thought myself this is an airline forum and not a political one...

Getting back to the original posted thread: no, I don't think this will effect Aruban tourism so much as I expect that (even) in the USA there are still some decent and intelligent people around that see through this "boycott" implemented by some dumb Alabama Governor, a stressed family and "media-horny" TV stations!!!
 
thegooddoctor
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:12 am

RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:28 am

Quoting Northernlights (Reply 68):
Funny... I thought myself this is an airline forum and not a political one...

...yes, it seems that despite anyone's (myself included) distaste for the idea of working in the field of politics, man's nature seems hard to escape!
The GoodDoctor
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:13 am

Quoting COSPN (Reply 13):
Under 21's should be banned from drinking overseas..

And how exactly do you plan to enforce this? We can't even enforce the drinking age in THIS country - how the hell are you going to do it elsewhere where the drinking age is much lower?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13088
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: The Aruba Boycott And US Carriers

Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:42 pm

Quoting Afrikaskyes (Reply 63):
There's 3 reasons why this is still in the news:

1 - She's rich
2 - She's attractive
3 - She's white

.....He's right. You can say the same about Elizabeth Smart and that looney runaway bride in Atlanta.

You are equally as wrong, Was Carlie Brucia rich? Stop this nonsense. If you look at these stories there is an underlying factor why they are news, for the runaway bride it was the fact she faked her own disappearance, for Elizabeth Smart it was the fact she was found alive and was not murdered by that handy man that everyone convicted most notably Nancy Grace, and for as far as Aruba goes their total incompetence in the handling of the case. Don't make this a black or white thing or a rich thing. It is neither!  no 
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.

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