Ariel Sharon Rushed To Hospital

prosa · Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:53 am

Possibly a second stroke, more details to come:

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/World/Israel

Bofredrik · Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:15 am

We can only hope...
Some for him to get better.
Some for him to get worse.

cfalk · Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:20 am

I've known about Sharon and the things he has done ever since he caught my attention during the Israeli incursions into Lebanon in 1981. I always thought of him as a dangerous hardliner.

But over the past year or so, he has impressed me with the boldness of his acts. Perhaps it is true that only a former hardliner can make meaningful peace gestures. Had a labor party PM proposed to leave Gaza, the Arabs would have seen it as weakness and the Israelis would have lynched him. But the fact that it was no other than "Mad Dog" Sharon who proposed it made people sit up and pay attention.

I hope he can stay in power a few more years. He still has much to do, and I don't see anyone else taking over his legacy.

Humberside · Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:35 am

Doesn't Israel have elections soon? Perhaps this is the time for him to go, on health grounds? Will the Israeli people vote for a leader with failing health who could end in up in hospital for more time than he is running the country?

LFutia · Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:48 am

CNN is saying that the powers have been transferred from him to his deputy after he had a 'significant' stroke.

Leo

Klaus · Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:49 am

...especially as he's just trying to found a new party, challenging his old Likud party...

MEA-707 · Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:54 am

I always detested Sharons politics, but since a year I started to like and respect him and think it's the best leader Israel can have on this moment, so all the more I hope he gets well soon.

[Edited 2006-01-04 23:17:23]

LFutia · Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:05 am

CNN also said that Ariel has a brain hemorrage (which is heavy bleeding in the brain) and he's in the operating room.

Leo

clickhappy · Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:48 am

Perhaps the stress of yesterdays bribery charge has pushed him over the edge?

muddydwagon · Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:50 am

Not too good according to the Yahoo news link powers were transferred to his deputy, Vice Premier Ehud Olmert. Probably normal procedure but I would say Sharon's situation is grimm.

Cheers Peter

cfalk · Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:03 am

Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 9):
"He was an evil and dispicable terrorist leader, who will be sadly missed"

or

"He was a much loved and respected leader, who will burn in hell and won't be missed by anyone."

Not so easy. He was a man with a deeply flawed past. But one who recognized his mistakes and was not afraid to change his ways. There are very few politicians that I can remember who have made such a drastic change.

So he is no saint, nor is he a devil, even though he has acted like both at different times. But he was headed in the right direction at the end.

Alessandro · Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:11 am

Don´t pin too much down on individuals in the ME, there´s so much money in the region the fighting is bound to go on.

EL-AL · Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:13 am

Tonight,

Me, so as all the Israelis pray and cry for our Prime Minister, who dedicated his life for Israel.

His way was always conflicted, but for the people of Israel, most of us at least, he was very much loved and popular.

We all wish him the best health, and that he will come back to work as soon as possible.

QANTAS077 · Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting EL-AL (Reply 15):
We all wish him the best health, and that he will come back to work as soon as possible.

get a clue, his life in politics is over! he's had a major stroke which would have left brain damage, he'll be lucky to live let alone re-enter politics. Wink

piercey · Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:57 am

Thoughts and prayers with the nation of Israel. I'll keep politics out of this post until later.

Richard28 · Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:21 am

Although Sharon's early life was that of a hard-liner, and treated the palestians awfully, it does seem, as quite often happens in life, that hard liners get softer in old age.

Except for the wall, which has negatives and positives, he has recently, it seems, tried to help the situation, with withdrawals from Gaza - alththough the biggest challenge, the withdrawal from the West Bank was yet to come.

Despite his hardline early days, I hope a recovery, and that whatever happens, peace, and the creation of a palestinan state, with UN approved boarders can progress.

AirCop · Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:28 am

Should be interesting what the new leadership in Israel will be like now that due to his illness he won't be a shadow on any government. Hopefully it will result in peace in the region, but I won't hold my breath since the middle east has been in conflict for centuries.

ltbewr · Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:28 am

It is sorry to see Sharon come to the near-end of his life this way. But he is 77 years old, has a heart problem and is obese, so it isn't surprising.
While seen as a hard liner, he was at least trying to come to some terms and balance with both the Palestinians and Jewish hard liners. Let's hope his recent pregmatic attempts for balance and peace don't die with him.

YoungFlyer · Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:31 am

I know Sharon had a really bad past in the eyes of many of you anI i agree with most of it. However, I think that lately he really supported peace talks and did many good things for that to happen. For the first time since Rabin there has been some true advances toward peace and calmness in the area. I think that some of you are really wrong to think that w/o him as p.m. things could have been a lot better. Personally as a Israeli citizen I pray for him and hope he can return soon to office. And if the worst happens and he passes away, I hope that the peace talks can continue unlike after Rabin was assassinated.
Dan

KSYR · Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:09 am

My thoughts and prayers are with Sharon and all of Israel during this trying time. Lets hope that he survives and is not too terribly disabled...

Aleksandar · Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:20 am

Sharon was definitely a politician who made strange, if not criminal, decisions in his career. First of all, I do have Sabra and Shatila ,massacres in mind. In the first years as prime minister, he also continued to be tough and made some decisions that I detested, like incursion into West Bank, keeping Arafat isolated from the rest of the world, building of security wall etc. But, I can't say I wish him the worst or a "place in hell" as some suggested. After all, it is not up to me to say whether he was right or wrong and whether he deserved Heaven or hell. I feel sorry for him at the moment, just as I feel sorry for every gravely ill person and thus, I do wish him to recover soon, if it is possible now. Also, among all his sins, one should be fair and say that he was also extremely brave last summer when he dismantled Jewish settlements in Gaza.

Klaus · Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:43 am

It's still an open question if the Gaza retreat was just a tactical maneuver to reduce the pressure on the much more "valuable" settlements in the west bank... Sharon has always been a staunch supporter of the settler's movement. I've never heard any statements from him that would actually support him "having seen the light" in any way... He cooperated splendidly with the murderous extremists on the palestinian side for many years, each reliably playing into the hands of the other.

Some of what he recently did looked reasonable, but I still have my doubts about why he did it...

That said, death is still another matter which I don't wish on him.

KSYR · Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:19 pm

I have to agree with those that acknowledge that this will not help the peace process out in the least. Sharon was at least making some progress and was willing to make concessions (ie Gaza strip pullout). I don't see the hard-line Likud candidate doing that if he wins the elections in three months.

Emirates773ER · Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:19 pm

I think at such a sensitive time in a man's life we should not judge him by his past but pray for his future. Let us not forget that he was a father, husband, brother etc to some people out there who are now struggling seeing him in this condition, being a conservative Muslim I used to think like BAxMAN until I realized after all Sharon is a human. His life remains in the hands of God so let us leave it upto Him to hold Sharon accountable for his deeds, as a human I pray for him.

Aleksandar · Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:33 pm

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 39):

I agree 100% with every word your posted here. Ariel Sharon was not a saint, but neither is any of us here, so any idea of simply judging him is out of question.

VirginFlyer · Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:20 pm

It has been standing practice that abusive comments ("Go to hell" etc) are not acceptable in threads about people who are recently deceased, or who are gravely ill. This practice will be enforced here. There is nothing wrong with criticising Mr Sharon, but please do so in a civil fashion.

There is a lot that could be said about Mr Sharon. For many people, he represents a national hero. For many others, he represents a war criminal. This is the sad nature of conflict - one man's hero is another's war criminal, and it provides another point of difference on which the conflict can be fought. For one, I do not think particularly highly of Mr Sharon - what happened in 1982 in Lebanon was clearly criminal. But that's not what we're talking about here. Whatever I think of him, that doesn't change the fact he is a very ill old man. I hope he will recover, and if not, I hope he has a peaceful death. Personally, I agree with Emirates773ER - it will be for God to judge him for what he has done in his life.

V/F

[Edited 2006-01-05 10:37:15]

MD11junkie · Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:48 pm

Marambio's and my prayers and thoughts are with Papa Ariel (as we jokingly call him). He has caught our attention, and respect and has changed from a Likud Hardliner to be a great leader of his nation.

My deepest hopes to see Papa Ariel back up.

Saludos and Cheers,
MD11junkie and Marambio

KSYR · Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:07 pm

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 23):
I think at such a sensitive time in a man's life we should not judge him by his past but pray for his future. Let us not forget that he was a father, husband, brother etc to some people out there who are now struggling seeing him in this condition, being a conservative Muslim I used to think like BAxMAN until I realized after all Sharon is a human. His life remains in the hands of God so let us leave it upto Him to hold Sharon accountable for his deeds, as a human I pray for him.

And for that, welcome to my Respected User list! You certainly have more toleration than many of the people on this site, including myself.

slider · Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:00 am

The fallout could be interesting if he passes.

Abu Abir promises rocket attacks against Israel to celebrate.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48203

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 20):
keeping Arafat isolated from the rest of the world, building of security wall etc.

Au contraire, two brilliant ideas. Segregating a terrorist leader and trying to separate your country and limit terrorist attacks. Sharon had it figured it in this regard. His other actions are more deserving of scrutiny.

rlwynn · Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:51 pm

More bleeding in the brain and is now back under the knife.

ly7e7 · Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting KSYR (Reply 32):
If Sharon dies then so does any chance for future concessions from Israel (at least in the short term).

Well, first of all ,even if he lives through this (which I doubt) his career is over.

Secondly, the person most likely to succeed him in the fraction is Mr. Ehud Olmert, the mind behind Sharon's Gaza pullout decision - and in case they win the upcoming elections current political attitude will most certainly continue.

BTW,When I think about Sharon's hedonistic lifestyle , lack of exercise and stresses he's been through (in his military and political careers) it really surprises me that he made it this far...

clrd2go · Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:22 am

Reports are that he has died, but I don't find confirmation as of yet

Jim

rjpieces · Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 34):
Secondly, the person most likely to succeed him in the fraction is Mr. Ehud Olmert, the mind behind Sharon's Gaza pullout decision - and in case they win the upcoming elections current political attitude will most certainly continue.

There's no doubt that Olmert has similar, if not the exact same, ideas as Sharon...But won't Olmert have a much more difficult time leading the country through any West Bank pullout, which will make Gaza look like a walk in the park?

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 34):
BTW,When I think about Sharon's hedonistic lifestyle , lack of exercise and stresses he's been through (in his military and political careers) it really surprises me that he made it this far...

Indeed...The man has been wounded in several wars, lost a son and two wives, been sued and internationally condemned, and made it to nearly 78...

Quoting Clrd2go (Reply 35):
Reports are that he has died, but I don't find confirmation as of yet

Drudge is reporting it, but I don't see anything in the Israeli media...

ly7e7 · Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:33 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 36):
But won't Olmert have a much more difficult time leading the country through any West Bank pullout

That will be his leadership test I guess. I think that he'll do a fine job as a PM if elected. Anyway I take him any day over the Labor party a$$holes, mainly for reasons of economical politics, rather than the palestinian issue, which, frankly, depends more on Abu Mazen's relations with the terrorist organizations and IDF.

rjpieces · Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:39 am

Director of Hadassah hospital just said that Sharon's condition has improved, but is still very significant....

ly7e7 · Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:43 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 38):
Director of Hadassah hospital just said that Sharon's condition has improved, but is still very significant....

Politics-wise : it does not matter any more...

rjpieces · Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:34 am

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 40):
Politics-wise : it does not matter any more...

True...

I have to say, it is quite amazing how much coverage the Arab media has been giving to Sharon...They seem to really care for his well-being...But probably out of self-interest...

ME AVN FAN · Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 41):
it is quite amazing how much coverage the Arab media has been giving to Sharon..

Sharon in recent months gradually changed course, and started to give indepence to Palestine in the Gaza-territory, the WestBank and EastJerusalem. Many who in past years hated the man have in the meantime started to be at least amazed about the man and at best appreciate him. While Olmert and the new LabourParty-boss can be expected to keep Netanyahu at bay, Sharon would still be the best option.

Catatonic · Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:50 am

Farewell Ariel Sharon, you will be sorely missed by your people, may you rest in peace.

Mir · Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting Catatonic (Reply 43):
Farewell Ariel Sharon, you will be sorely missed by your people, may you rest in peace.

He's not dead yet...last I heard he was in critical, but stable condition.

-Mir

Air380 · Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:56 am

Ok, don't you think, this is the way to go after a long and busy life?
Mr. Sharon was working and making decisions until he suffered the second stroke. He seemed to be in ok health, had obviously still his wits and was still working. He is 77, after all. Do you think the former General would enjoy to wake up, since the doctors diagnosed brain damage? I wish for the best but the outlook doesn't seem to be great. For the people of Israel, we pray with you.

ETStar · Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:56 am

Did not read most of the postings above, but what I wanted to say is that all my life, whenever I heard of this blowing up here, that blowing up there (all in the middle east), I always wondered what really led to each particular event, and did not have a grasp of the whole Arab-Israel issue, the wars etc.

But this has been made clear to me now after watching "50 Years War, The: Israel and the Arabs" compiled by PBS (http://www.shoppbs.org/sm-pbs-50-years-war-the-israel-and-the-arabs-dvd--pi-1402929.html), which gives a good and chronological account of what went on. I will keep my own deductions to myself, but I definitely recommend that you watch it to get an idea. It starts up from the end of the last world war, where jews started flocking back to Palestine, and goes on until recent times. It interviews many of the major players, who talk about details that one would otherwise not know about (ie how they set up secret meetings etc).

avi · Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:59 am

You should keep in mind couple of things:

A) Jews lived here for hundreds of years, few, but still lived here (part of my family history here goes almost 400 years back).
B) The big flow of Jews from east Europe to what will be Israel started over 120 years ago (1882), long long time before WWII.
C) The conflict with the Arabs started about in the mid 20's of the previous century.

So, if this DVD starts only after WWII, you miss lots of things.

By the way, when does the DVD end? I mean, if the picture on the cover is of Arafat and Netanyahu, it must be end at least 8 years ago (do you know what can happen in here in 8 years Smile

?)

rjpieces · Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:36 pm

An update:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, while still in serious but stable condition, gave his family and doctors a reason for some optimism when he not only began to breathe spontaneously but also moved his right hand and right leg "slightly but significantly" in response to a pain stimulus.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net