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AerospaceFan
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Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:38 am

A couple of days ago, I wrote a rant about NOW and all the feminists who don't like Judge Alito. Opponents of his confirmation also include the People for the American Way and other liberal pressure groups, not to mention some Democrats.

So, will the efforts of these anti-Alito forces make a difference? Will Samuel Alito be confirmed to replace Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, or will he go the way of Robert Bork or Harriet Meier?

Do you think that Judge Alito is too conservative? Let's say that he's more conservative than Antonio Scalia. Would that be a good thing or a bad thing, in your view?

Thanks in advance.
What's fair is fair.
 
jaysit
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:11 am

Yes.

Although I hope he isn't.

I think he is capable, and isn't the conservative boogeyman the Dems claim he is.

However, he is dishonest. Anyone who now claims that he made certain statements back in 1984 only to make inroads into the inner sanctum of the GOP judicial hierarchy, is an opportunistic twit.

If his statements back then were just bluster to get a job, then why should anyone believe him now? He's out to get another job, and will say anything to get it.

Our country deserves better than some liar willing to say anything to get ahead in his career. I hope that both Dems and responsible Republicans have the courage and convictions to tell him to get lost. I'd rather have a man or a woman who holds true to his/her words, irrespective of his ideology. This guy is just another Bork who flagrantly lied on the floor of the Senate in order to get confirmed.
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dw9115
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:19 am

He will be confirmed no matter all the stuff the Dems say. He is probably one of the most qualified people there is right now. But there is always room for good DEBATE (not personal bashing like a lot a.netters and politicians like to do) on the subject though.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:35 am

Thanks for your replies!

I, too, think that Alito will be confirmed, but I think that the road ahead will be very rocky. He will by no means be given the kind of deference from Senate Democrats they gave to Justice Roberts during his confirmation hearings. And the reasons have to do with the political climate as well as with the nature of Judge Alito's writings.

For one thing, Alito is more conservative-appearing than Roberts. For another, the judge's judicial writings, any way you look at them, are more controversial than Roberts', if for no other reason than that he's had more time on the bench to write them. I predict that he will be cited many of his own opinions and that Senators will ask him whether he still holds the views stated in them today.

In one opinion, Judge Alito upheld the right of police to aggressively search a twelve-year-old girl. I can just imagine where the Senate Democrats on the Committee might go with that one. "Judge, as you sit here today, do you continue to believe that the state has the right to strip-search children under the circumstances you say you found in that case?" It's the kind of "have you stopped beating your wife"-type question that the media will love.

So, it will be a demolition derby of a confirmation process, and neither side will look that good coming out from it.

I just hope for one thing: That people will see how ridiculous and illogical that extreme examples of politicians can be, and how incredible is the extent to which some of them will go to achieve their political ends.

[Edited 2006-01-08 22:38:37]
What's fair is fair.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:49 am

I to think that he will (unfortunately) be confirmed.

In the post Bork/R.B-G. era, it's been made exceedingly clear that all one need do once questioned is hold your tongue, or blatantly lie, to get confirmation.


But oh well, again, let's all give thanks that Bork NEVER made it!
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AerospaceFan
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:50 pm

Have you listened to Judge Bork lately? He is one bitter man, it seems.

I think that politicization of the judicial confirmation process is shameful. Why does politics have to intrude upon everything?
What's fair is fair.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 5):
Have you listened to Judge Bork lately? He is one bitter man, it seems.

Exactly, hence my point.

Normally, I don't subscribe to talking points-- but that guy really does personify the "turn back the clock" mentality, it's scary!
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:07 am

Judge Alito is very qualified to be a Supreme Court Justice which is all the Senate Hearings are supposed to confirm.....
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sleekjet
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:56 am

I hope he will be confirmed. I'm just as anti-baby murder as he is.
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rjpieces
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:45 am

Senator Feinstein said she will fillibuster unless she thinks he will vote to uphold abortion rights.
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RAMPRAT980
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:24 am

Do I think Alito will be confirmed ?
Is Ted Kennedy a drunk ?
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AeroWesty
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:19 am

I'm sure Alito will be confirmed. But not before the policies of the Bush White House is raked over the coals several times. It's already being setup in the introductory remarks by the senators.
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MidnightMike
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:11 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 9):
Senator Feinstein said she will fillibuster unless she thinks he will vote to uphold abortion rights.

Talk is cheap, Senator Feinstein will vote, up or down for Alito. The threat of a filibuster is to satisfy her Liberal supporters.

Just a reminder/flashback, Justice Ginsberg was voted in overwhelmingly, and the world knew which was she going to vote.....
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cfalk
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 9):
Senator Feinstein said she will fillibuster unless she thinks he will vote to uphold abortion rights.

Which would show that she has absolutely ZERO respect for the constitution and the duties it prescribes for a member of the Supreme Court.

A SC judge is not supposed to have ANY preconcieved opinions going into a case.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:20 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 13):
A SC judge is not supposed to have ANY preconcieved opinions going into a case.

Oh, come on, CFalk. Noble words, but EVERY judge-every person, has preconceived notions about a case and an issue. Alito is no different, and it's obvious he's against Roe v. Wade.

Having said that, I think he'll get nominated, unfortunately. I simply think he's too conservative for my taste.
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searpqx
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:23 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 1):
Anyone who now claims that he made certain statements back in 1984 only to make inroads into the inner sanctum of the GOP judicial hierarchy, is an opportunistic twit.

I think that's the root of it for me. I believe the man is qualified. He is more conservative than I would like, but that is a personal issue and nothing to keep him off the bench. I just don't like the fact that he either prostituted himself then or is prostituting himself now. But, in the end, I fully expect him to be confirmed.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
cfalk
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:41 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14):
Oh, come on, CFalk. Noble words, but EVERY judge-every person, has preconceived notions about a case and an issue. Alito is no different, and it's obvious he's against Roe v. Wade.

Don't tell me you are incapable of professional detachment. A judge may personally be against (or pro-) abortion, but if he is a professional, he must put those feelings aside and base his decision ONLY on what the law says, or what the Constitution says.

Anyone who cannot seperate his own opinions from his professional work does not belong on the SC. Period.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
SAIL52115
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:46 am

Unfortunately, Alito will be confirmed. And I hope to whatever higher power there is (unfortunately, the disinterested American voter), he is not another Scalia or Thomas.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 16):
Don't tell me you are incapable of professional detachment. A judge may personally be against (or pro-) abortion, but if he is a professional, he must put those feelings aside and base his decision ONLY on what the law says, or what the Constitution says.

Anyone who cannot seperate his own opinions from his professional work does not belong on the SC. Period.

Agreed. Could not have said it better myself.

Positively speaking, at least he has bench experience and can wirte a judicial brief (however odious) unlike Ms. Meiers.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:56 am

For those of you with a sense of history, it wasn't all that long ago when the Bush folks including one Alvin Gonzales made a big pile of doggy doo about the ABA input into the qualifications of judicial nominees.

Now what we're hearing from the braying throats of the right is "Judge Alito! The ABA gave him their highest rating for judicial nominees!"

Seems a little twofaced methinks.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/LAW/03/22/bush.ABA/

Not that I think over much of an ABA endorsement and part of why I dropped my membership.

The ABA, it will be remembered, would not admit black folks to membership until about 1955 or so. Yes folks, they were segregated every bit as much as if they'd been card carrying members of the White Citizens Councils.

(satire)

"Nope, no suh. NO Nigras better apply heah. They's fine to serve drinks and carry out the trash but that's about it."

(disdain)

So now it's the nineties and they decide "Well we better spend some money on diversity, cause of the month club, yada yada yada, we WERE segregated, discriminated against (satire) nigras and all."

They've got to do a LOT more than yap about how they're so dang liberal to clean up their sorry assed history of segregation.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:04 am

I am very impressed by the high level of discussion this topic has generated, and thankful for the commentary, insights, and opinion I have read.

My personal belief is that a Justice (or a judge) must be impartial. As a practical matter, it can be difficult to separate one's personal beliefs from what one sees in the law, but merely because it is difficult does not mean it cannot be done. To be a judge is not easy, and frankly, a judge must be impartial even if he finds it difficult to do so. Or else he should find another profession.

Judge Alito has been accused of being ultraconservative. But if his view of the law is that conservative principles are immanent within it, and if his legal reasoning is sound, then merely because he is, by his works, ultraconservative is no reason not to confirm him, as long as he is otherwise qualified.

In this regard, therefore, while the Senate Judiciary Committee must be careful to determine that any candidate for judicial office has the appropriate impartiality, ability, temperament, knowledge, character, and integrity, and that he or she meets the highest standards relative to those qualities that can be reasonably imposed, I depart from those who say that the Committee should be able to decline to consent to a candidate's confirmation merely because of the liberalism or conservatism of either the candidate's personal views or, provided that prior decisions of the candidate have been based on sound legal reasoning, of the liberalism or conservatism found in those decisions.

A President is entitled to appoint someone whose views, whether personal or judicial, matches his own, and who is otherwise qualified.

Thus, posturing by any Senator that a judge must be supportive of any particular right or set of rights detracts from the proper role of the Committee.

In this, I speak of phraseology such as "The Supreme Court has been the guarantor of civil rights," with the implication that a candidate must also agree as to what is meant by "civil rights". The Supreme Court is entrusted with interpreting the law in a way consistent with the Constitution. Provided that the candidate meets the highest reasonable requirements of impartiality, ability, and the other qualities mentioned above, that is all that should matter.

[Edited 2006-01-09 23:09:46]
What's fair is fair.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 19):
In this, I speak of phraseology such as "The Supreme Court has been the guarantor of civil rights," with the implication that a candidate must also agree as to what is meant by "civil rights". The Supreme Court is entrusted with interpreting the law in a way consistent with the Constitution. Provided that the candidate meets requirements of impartiality, ability temperament, knowledge, character, and integrity, that is all that should matter.

Well, the problem is that when the justices DO start trying to reorder the world to fit their particular world view, it almost always turns out badly. Perhaps the most singular case in that regard was Dred Scott v. Sanford. Chief Justice Taney probably did more to start the Civil War than any man alive. It would have been a simple matter for the court to say "The matter's clearly set out in existing law and there's no justiciable question here" and that would have been the end of it. Justice Taney decided that he was going to settle the slave question once and for all. He thereupon declared that the children of slaves were not citizens and that they had no rights that a white man needed to respect. He also did a pretty good hatchet job on the 1850 compromise.



A few others? Mr. Justice Peckham in Lochner v. New York, whoever in Plessy v. Ferguson.

In particular, the notion of Social Darwinism and ideology has played havoc with the administration of law in this country. People should be rightly skeptical of people who are on record concerning positions that the majority of people in this country are not particularly in favor of-particularly social engineering from the bench, which is what a lot of people on the right want Alito to do. That's what bothers people about Alito.


The key here, also is that if he does get confirmed the right will have a slam dunk majority in every case that political positioning plays a part. That majority will last 25 or 30 years. It could do a lot of damage in that period of time-although it could work the other way. Earl Warren was appointed by Ike, who said it was the worst mistake he ever made. Time has proved Ike wrong.

The other thing is the cases the court takes up. Accepting certiorari is the beginning of how the decision is made, if the majority's a slam dunk anyway.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Pope
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:26 am

I saw some of the opening statements today and it was clear to me that the pool of people who will ever be willing to submit themselves to this sort of BS will continue to shrink.

Who among us hasn't done anything in their youth that they wouldn't want a "do over" if given the second chance. The degree of examination that current justices are subject to is simply too much. Senators don't really want people with integrity, they only want people who support whatever political views the Senator holds (or is willing to admit to that day). If Alito came out and said, as I stand here today I'm 100% convinced that their is a Consitutional basis for a woman's unrestricted right to an abortion the wind would be taken from the Democrat's sails. Even if he was lying through his teeth, there would be little if anything anyone could do about it once he was confirmed.

He could then rule 180 degrees out of phase with his decision and the most anyone could ever do is charge him with perjury to Congress, which seems that it would be pretty easy to beat - all he'd have to say is that he changed his mind after making his statement.

This system is flawed and will eventually crack under its own weight. We encourage our elected leaders to lie, cheat and steal to gain power and then lament it once they are there.

The number of politicians with integrity shrinks every day and fewer and fewer people are willing to throw themselves into this muck. We are witnessing the destruction of our country as George Washington had predicted.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:19 am

One of the great difficulties for confirming any higher level or SC justice is the actual facts of a given case that will come before the court can make a canidate very reluctant to give a blanket answer. There is also the issue of timing as to when a given matter is before the court and it is time to make a change in long running constitutional policy of the court and to conform to the times. Criminals rights, Abortion, the power of the President, can be issues that change over time. Far too often, the Congress (and the President) will make laws that are not in the best interest of the Country as a majority or even a tiny minority of it. That is the purpose of the SCOTUS, to be there to curb their excesses.
The past decisions and actions of a canidate for a judgeship are probably the best way to see how their thinking is, how they might decide and so on and that is probably the best source for questions. Alito does have a record of decisions that will be very important in his hearings.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 20):
In particular, the notion of Social Darwinism and ideology has played havoc with the administration of law in this country. People should be rightly skeptical of people who are on record concerning positions that the majority of people in this country are not particularly in favor of-particularly social engineering from the bench, which is what a lot of people on the right want Alito to do. That's what bothers people about Alito.

You make a very good point, and to the extent it touches upon questions of propriety insofar as decisions made by the Court may affect our country, I am tempted to say that your point serves to limit the application of my "no investigation into judicial philosophy" argument. And the following is how it may.

Taking a step back, my belief that a judge may be conservative or liberal in his beliefs in the nature of the law (i.e., that laws may be inherently conservative or liberal, rather than that laws are neutral and can never express conservative or liberal values) depends on the legitimacy of the concept of legal philosophy in the abstract. That is, an experienced candidate who desires to ascend to a high judicial office should be expected to have maintained a philosophical position that is, first of all, consistent with the Constitution, and second of all, consistent within itself. Judicial philosophy here is defined to be entirely independent from political considerations qua political considerations. Thus, so long as his judicial philosophy is coherent, I do not believe that the Senate should inquire into it.

There is a certain kind of "judicial" philosophy, however, that is inherently political, and this may be what your examples illustrate. I do not classify this kind of faux judicial philosophy as immune from Senate inquiry. A judge who believes that abortion is inherently wrong (or right) and that regardless of what the Constitution or laws say, there is no right to it, does not, in so believing, hold a philosphical position limited to judicial decision; rather, by its nature, that judge's belief extends far beyond the law and indeed, if shown to be either realized or realizeable, far beyond the permissible bounds his office, whose powers are derived only from the Constitution. (Those powers are also limited by elemental considerations of justice, liberty, and human decency, but that's another discussion.)

A judge whose acts show him to act inconsistently with a coherent legal philosophy is generally (but not always) associated with results-oriented decision-making. This is the kind of partiality that does not bode well for a candidate who exhibits such behavior. Thus, immunity from inquiry into political orientation should be limited to cases in which a threshold inquiry has resulted in a showing that a judge might not be impartial to the requisite degree.

So far, Samuel Alito's record shows him to be very conservative. If careful questioning shows that his conservatism is not reconcilable with a coherent, rationally defensible philosophy of law, then further inquiry as to his conservatism should be made. If, however, the opposite is found, then there is no reason to disqualify him on the basis of conservatism alone.

[Edited 2006-01-10 00:42:09]
What's fair is fair.
 
RAMPRAT980
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:45 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 19):
My personal belief is that a Justice (or a judge) must be impartial.

While I agree with you I find it rather funny when there is/are senators who say they will vote against a nomination unless he/she is satisfied that the nominee won't vote down Roe v. Wade. Why is it that abortion is such a hot topic when there are more important things that justice should be focusing his attention on and all those senators/congressman. I feel its a total waste of time given the current situation in America. As for me, being a registered republican, I am totally for a womens right to choose. I know it sounds crazy but to me being in America, one has a right to make up his/her own mind. Plain and simple.
Yes I know many will say "but what about the unborn child". My answer is simple. A birth certificate says Date of Birth, not date conceived. By the way, when will they show executions on T.V.. Now that would be a true reality show.
With gun control there can be no democracy.. With gun control there can be no Freedom
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:50 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):



Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 3):



Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 19):



Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 23):

AerospaceFan... are you a college professor?

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:32 pm

First, if I may, a few corrections of my own postings, above:

(Amended sentences: )

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 23):
In one opinion, Judge Alito upheld the right of police to aggressively search a ten-year-old girl.^1

* * *

Taking a step back, my contention that a judge may be conservative or liberal in his beliefs in the nature of the law (i.e., that laws may be inherently conservative or liberal, rather than that laws are neutral and can never express conservative or liberal values) depends on the legitimacy of the concept of legal philosophy in the abstract.

* * *

Thus, so long as his judicial philosophy is coherent, I do not believe that the Senate should long inquire into it, particularly since to do so often also implicates political positions.

* * *

A judge who believes that abortion is inherently wrong (or, conversely, right) and that regardless of what the Constitution or laws say, there is no right to it (or, conversely, that there is an absolute right entirely outside of it), does not, in so believing, hold a philosphical position limited to judicial decision; rather, by its nature, that judge's operational belief system extends far beyond the law and indeed, if shown to be either realized or realizeable, far beyond the permissible bounds of his office, whose powers are derived only from the Constitution.

* * *

Thus, immunity from questioning into political orientation (that, in practice, masquerades as investigation of judicial philosophy) should be limited to cases in which a threshold inquiry has resulted in a showing that a judge might not be impartial to the requisite degree.



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 25):
AerospaceFan... are you a college professor?

No, although at this point, I must admit that taking a position as a college professor would be attractive as a second career.

Quoting RAMPRAT980 (Reply 24):
Why is it that abortion is such a hot topic when there are more important things that justice should be focusing his attention on and all those senators/congressman.

It seems to me that this is something that cannot be explained without reference to religious belief, on one hand, and raw political expediency, on the other. Republicans have tended to skew conservative as much as Democrats have tended toward liberalism in the last twenty years. As a source of intellectual strength, conservatives in America generally rely upon a sense of tradition, which finds its greatest expression in places where religiosity also thrives. In the Bible Belt, religiosity is associated with evangelical and fundamentalist denominations that have made it their work to stamp out the decline in morals that they see promoted by abortion and promiscuity. However, the further derivation of anti-abortionism would require the opinion of an expert. The other side of the coin is that many Republicans rely on the religiously inclined for financial and grass-roots support.

_______________________
1. Reference:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa...rl_10_prompts_questions/?page=full

[Edited 2006-01-10 05:43:52]
What's fair is fair.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:47 pm

The latest news on Judge Alito is, of course, that the Judiciary Committee has voted to recommend him to the Senate for consideration. The vote was strictly on party lines, 10 to 8.

The Democrats want to embarass the President by delaying the vote of the full Senate until just before Bush's State of the Union speech on Tuesday. Regardless, a filibuster looks unlikely and it seems that the Republicans have the numbers to confirm him on a full vote, regardless of what day it will be held.
What's fair is fair.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:54 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 27):
Regardless, a filibuster looks unlikely and it seems that the Republicans have the numbers to confirm him on a full vote, regardless of what day it will be held.

Plus at least one democrat will go against the party line. . . .

Well, he's screwed for the balance of his tenure in the Senate. . .

Kennedy, Pelosi, they'll castrate the poor bastard for actually thinking on his own . . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:02 pm

That would be Ben Nelson.

Good old Ben Nelson.  

[Edited 2006-01-25 05:07:18]
What's fair is fair.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Do You Think Alito Will Be Confirmed?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:04 am

C-SPAN2 is covering this live. (There are 3 separate C-SPAN channels.)

It has on the roster of committed votes:

Y = 39 N = 19

Right now, Sen. John Cornyn is speaking on the floor of the Senate. Sen. Edward Kennedy had the floor some time ago, so I suppose he's done.

Votes in various articles have the final tally at no fewer than 51 votes in favor of Judge Alito, which, if true, means that he will be confirmed by the full Senate, unless there is a filibuster, which is very unlikely.

If there is a filibuster, the Republicans may exercise the "nuclear option", also known as the "Constitutional option", to amend the rules so that filibusters can be ended by a mere majority vote. Since the Republicans have 55 out of the 100 seats in the Senate, they would prevail in the exercise of such option.
What's fair is fair.

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