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slider
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Mexico Can Bite One...

Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:21 pm

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/01/10/D8F1LRCO5.html

The Mexican government is demanding more US immigration.

WTF!  banghead 

Mexico needs to pull its own head from its collective corrupt ass, shut up about dictating policy to us, and straighten itself out instead of making ridiculous immigration demands.

Time to build that wall, folks. Enough is freaking enough.
 
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yowza
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:29 pm

Perhaps you should hold your own government to the fire about some of the demands it makes to other governments before shitting yourself over this issue... just a thought.

US pressure on Bahrain to open trade with Israel, alienating it from other Gulf states.
US occupation of Diego Garcia as a base for your nintendo pilots to go bomb Iraq/Afghanistan etc etc (yes I know it's a British territory but had it not been for US pressure the ppl displaced from there would have been moved back years ago.)

US meddling with Danish/Greenland politics. This is blatantly because Greenland is an ideal spot for a station for the missle defesne program but the Danes oppose it.

There are many, many more...

YOWza
 
Matt D
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:30 pm

We could. We should.

But Vicente Fox is not a stupid man. He knows all too well that his economy is being propped up by ours. And in some ways, he "thinks" he's helping us.

I'm sure he watches CNN and reads American newspapers. He knows that this is the do-not-disturb rattlesnake of American politics: any talk of immigration change, and within nanoseconds, racism immediately gets thrown into the mix.

Plus, it's kind of hard to expect any change when both sides of the aisle (for now) stand to benefit from illegals, the difference is that at least the Dems are open and honest about it: they know that by legalizing as many Hispanic illegals as possible, they are probably solidifying that much more of a voting bloc.

The GOP, for all it's flag waving, "secure our borders" rhetoric always seems to be looking the other way when that pennies on the dollar Illegel versus an American worker is on the table.

I don't think building a wall is the answer. Because that does not address the REAL fundamental problems.

Eliminate birthright citizenship to children of illegals, slash and burn the handouts (food stamps, Medical, free education, etc.), and all this Spanish/English bilingual BS (it is now possible to comfortably live an entire life here in SoCal and not know one word of English), and so on. Prosecute and imprison Americans that give aid to illegals, ergo hiring them and paying cash under the table.

Eliminate the incentive for them to come here in the first place and you can protect the border with freaking chicken wire.
 
slider
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:39 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 1):
Perhaps you should hold your own government to the fire about some of the demands it makes to other governments before shitting yourself over this issue... just a thought.

Cut the crap- this isn't about the US....I won't hide behind some double-standard---I know what you're saying is correct. But in this instance, do not hijack this thread.

It's about a corrupt Mexican government trying to dictate immigration policy to another sovereign nation.

Quoting Matt D (Reply 2):
He knows that this is the do-not-disturb rattlesnake of American politics:

I disagree...that rattlesnake is shaking. Bigtime. The American people--even in the Midwest, where it isn't as high profile of a deal, are coming around to it. This will be one of the biggest issues in the next Presidential election...
 
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yowza
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:51 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 3):
Cut the crap- this isn't about the US....I won't hide behind some double-standard---I know what you're saying is correct. But in this instance, do not hijack this thread.

It's about a corrupt Mexican government trying to dictate immigration policy to another sovereign nation.

Since you are man enough to concede that the US does waddle around playing God I will concede that it is way out of line for the Mexicans to be making brash assertions like this one. There is no point in you getting upset though, the US will NEVER EVER bow to any kind of pressure from Mexico - FACT!

YOWza
 
Dougloid
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:55 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 3):
disagree...that rattlesnake is shaking. Bigtime. The American people--even in the Midwest, where it isn't as high profile of a deal, are coming around to it.

Well, we're not generally in the loop when stuff is decided in Washington. I'm in central Iowa and I'd have to say that no-one in Washington really gives a rats ass what people here think (except for the primaries every four years). I am SURE nobody cares what people in Nebraska, South, and North Dakota think because we here in Iowa don't care what they think.

So what DO we think about the subject of illegal immigration?

As long as the illegals mind their business and stay out of trouble with the law, nobody here in the midwest gives a damn about it. I'm in mind of the rural county I worked in a few years ago. There were a certain number of illegals, everyone knew them, I asked the Sheriff one time about what he proposed to do about it and he said
"Let me tell you something sonny. Down here wo don't carry water for the Feds."

Of course, when they did something stupid like get caught drunk driving or beating up their girlfriends and getting arrested, la Migra got involved. But nobody was going out hunting them down any more than they were wasting time pulling up ditchweed.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
pbottenb
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:58 pm

Quoting Matt D (Reply 2):
Eliminate birthright citizenship to children of illegals, slash and burn the handouts (food stamps, Medical, free education, etc.), and all this Spanish/English bilingual BS (it is now possible to comfortably live an entire life here in SoCal and not know one word of English), and so on. Prosecute and imprison Americans that give aid to illegals, ergo hiring them and paying cash under the table.

Alternatively:
1) We could keep the birthright citizenship to all children born here (like the grandparents of my lovely Latina wife).

2) Accept that the value of the work perfomed by illegals here is worth 10 times the current level of handouts that we give them now and make it easier for illegals to assimilate into the "American Culture" - like my lovely Latina wife..

3) Get off your ass and learn Spanish because wether you like it or not, your gonna need to.

4) Figure out a way to have migrant workers here without making them illegal - very hard.

A couple of points for you, I am a Geographer by trade and most Geographers would agree that the changes that you are complaining about are inevitable and that there is absolutely nothing that you can do about it.

In history there are countless examples of two cultures existing next to each other with some sort of boundary between them. Over the course of generations, without exception, the poorer society eventually absorbs the richer society, genetically and culturally. There is more than one reason for this, but suffice it to say that in pretty simple terms - men from the richer society marry women from the poorer society and they dicide to live in the richer society.

Also, the kind of person from the poorer society who will walk across the desert to go work in the richer society is generally a "go getter" who is willing to take risks. Over time, people who are willing to take risks eventually reap the rewards of those risks - including wealth and power...

In other words...get used to it because there aint nothing thats going to stop it...

Finally, and I know that this is a long post, so I apologize, but here is an interesting thought - many historians compare the US today to Rome when it was at it's height. I agree with some of the simillarities, but not all...But an interesting thing about Rome was that the western part of the Roman Empire did not "fall" because the Visigoths and Vandals wanted to destroy her, it fell because the Visigoths and Vandals wanted to be Roman, and Rome could not figure out how to let them........just a thought...

Buenos Dias!

Pedro
 
slider
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:08 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 4):
There is no point in you getting upset though, the US will NEVER EVER bow to any kind of pressure from Mexico - FACT!

The US has already bowed to pressure, hence all of them pouring across as it is!

Bush has been nothing but Vicente Fox's bitch pretty much.

That's what bothers me- we've already allowed the situation to get wholly out of control.
 
RAMPRAT980
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:16 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 1):
Perhaps you should hold your own government to the fire about some of the demands it makes to other governments before shitting yourself over this issue... just a thought.

Your country is one of the poorest nations in the world. Why don't you ask your government officials whats being done to stop the poverty in your country.....just a thought
With gun control there can be no democracy.. With gun control there can be no Freedom
 
pbottenb
Posts: 403
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:18 am

Quoting RAMPRAT980 (Reply 8):
Your country is one of the poorest nations in the world. Why don't you ask your government officials whats being done to stop the poverty in your country.....just a thought

This is a valid point, but I am convinced that it will never change.
 
RAMPRAT980
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting Pbottenb (Reply 9):
This is a valid point, but I am convinced that it will never change.

The U.S. has to do something to put an end to this illegal immigration stuff. And I am not just talking about those crossing over from mexico. What about people who enter this country with every intention of overstaying their visa's. We all know who they are. Those 20 something Russian women looking to marry a 70 year old sugardaddy.
With gun control there can be no democracy.. With gun control there can be no Freedom
 
Dougloid
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:05 am

Quoting RAMPRAT980 (Reply 10):
Those 20 something Russian women looking to marry a 70 year old sugardaddy.

Well, I'm completely against illegal immigration unless they're hot babes. We could use more cool chicks and buy all the American lesbo-feminists a one way plane ticket to Europe.


 box 
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
SlamClick
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:44 am

It is not within the power of the United States economy to drag the undereducated and overbred masses of Latin America up into first world standards of living. It isn't. Sorry. The perceived surpluses we enjoy just would not amount to anything if spread that thin.

It is easily within the powers of the people of Latin America to overbreed the continental landmass now known as the United States of America into third world poverty. If the corrupt governments of Latin America are allowed to use us as THE ONE AND ONLY solution to their economic problems IT WILL HAPPEN.

Those two truths, however hard or unpalatable must guide policy along the fence.

We can employ some.
We cannot employ all.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Newark777
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:54 am

Quoting Pbottenb (Reply 6):

3) Get off your ass and learn Spanish because wether you like it or not, your gonna need to.

As this attitude becomes more prevalent, it makes me more and more motivated NOT to learn Spanish. Why should I learn a different language because these illegals are incapable of doing so? We should make it harder for them to live only speaking Spanish, not easier.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
RAMPRAT980
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 11):
Well, I'm completely against illegal immigration unless they're hot babes. We could use more cool chicks and buy all the American lesbo-feminists a one way plane ticket to Europe.

Its an interesting thought.

Quoting Pbottenb (Reply 6):
1) We could keep the birthright citizenship to all children born here (like the grandparents of my lovely Latina wife).

2) Accept that the value of the work perfomed by illegals here is worth 10 times the current level of handouts that we give them now and make it easier for illegals to assimilate into the "American Culture" - like my lovely Latina wife..

3) Get off your ass and learn Spanish because wether you like it or not, your gonna need to.

4) Figure out a way to have migrant workers here without making them illegal - very hard.


Another, suffering from Stockholm syndrome.
With gun control there can be no democracy.. With gun control there can be no Freedom
 
Derico
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:12 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 12):
It is not within the power of the United States economy to drag the undereducated and overbred masses of Latin America up into first world standards of living. It isn't. Sorry. The perceived surpluses we enjoy just would not amount to anything if spread that thin.

As usual, a gross overgeneralization of entire regions of the world. With comments such as this my friend, how come americans get mad when foreigners say they are all ignorant and uneducated? The above quote gives credence to that 'stereotype'.

Go to nationmaster.com, the UN, or NGOs dedicated to statistics and see how 'uneducated' the southern cone (Argentina, Uruguay, and increasingly Chile), really are.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
RNOcommctr
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:09 am

Considering that the U.S. stole half of Mexico in the 1846-1848 Mexican-American War, I'd say Mexican residents are entitled to just about anything they want in this country.
Active loading only, ma'am, keep it moving!
 
Newark777
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting RNOcommctr (Reply 16):
Considering that the U.S. stole half of Mexico in the 1846-1848 Mexican-American War, I'd say Mexican residents are entitled to just about anything they want in this country.

Just because of the outcome of a war in the mid 1800's, doesn't entitle Mr. Sanchez from Chihuahua to wade across the Rio Grande and run from INS officers. We have laws for a reason. What a ridiculous claim, haha.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
Dougloid
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:21 am

Quoting RNOcommctr (Reply 16):
Considering that the U.S. stole half of Mexico in the 1846-1848 Mexican-American War, I'd say Mexican residents are entitled to just about anything they want in this country.

Yes.....they can have all the hubcaps.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
SlamClick
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:57 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 15):
Go to nationmaster.com, the UN, or NGOs dedicated to statistics and see how 'uneducated' the southern cone (Argentina, Uruguay, and increasingly Chile), really are.

Perhaps you could make better use of your education. It is obviously NOT the educated Latins that are sneaking across the border every night. It is NOT the educated Latins that are having seven to ten kids in a household with one income. Think about the actual topic of this thread before you give in to hypersensitivity.

Quoting RNOcommctr (Reply 16):
Considering that the U.S. stole half of Mexico in the 1846-1848 Mexican-American War

And "Mexico" stole themselves from France and Spain, and all of the above stole themselves from the original human inhabitants. The first humans "stole" it from the other native mammals and one day the cockroaches will probably steal it all back from us.

And so what?

Not one human civilization is innocent of such acts. The only thing worse than a war to conquer territory is the endless throwing it up as an argument stopper. So what if we took it. We obviously made infinitely better use of it than Mexico would have, else why do they sneak across the border to come here. They lost it, we gained it by right of conquest and one day we will likely become so weak through self-guilt that someone will do the same to us.

All of which has nada to do with today's realities.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
slider
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 12):
It is not within the power of the United States economy to drag the undereducated and overbred masses of Latin America up into first world standards of living. It isn't. Sorry. The perceived surpluses we enjoy just would not amount to anything if spread that thin.

It is easily within the powers of the people of Latin America to overbreed the continental landmass now known as the United States of America into third world poverty. If the corrupt governments of Latin America are allowed to use us as THE ONE AND ONLY solution to their economic problems IT WILL HAPPEN.

Those two truths, however hard or unpalatable must guide policy along the fence.

We can employ some.
We cannot employ all.

Post of the freaking week!!  bigthumbsup 

I do not believe that economic prosperity is a zero sum game, but in a parasitic construct such as this, there may be a loser, and that is the US. Talk all you want about the "benefits" of cheap labor, but the costs to us in terms of our borders, language, culture and economy in health care, legal, insurance, penal, etc, are staggering. And we are paying a heavy price indeed.

Quoting RAMPRAT980 (Reply 14):
Another, suffering from Stockholm syndrome.

I was thinking exactly that....nevermind that THEY should be the ones learning English.

But if I had a bumper sticker for an English version of the radio station "La Raza," I'd be arrested for a hate crime.

And Aztlan continues to bang their drum for a militant takeover as well of Mexifornia.

Quoting RNOcommctr (Reply 16):
Considering that the U.S. stole half of Mexico in the 1846-1848 Mexican-American War, I'd say Mexican residents are entitled to just about anything they want in this country.

Battle of San Jacinto, 1836. AMF Santa Anna. To the victor go the spoils--Remember the Alamo and God Bless Texas!  Wink

No one's "entitled" to anything. History has shown that a nation typically must stay on the advance in order to maintain its stature in the world. Not since Manifest Destiny have we done so (Spanish-American War notwithstanding), and we are now being invaded.
 
phxplanes
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:22 am

I agree with you slider. Now that they have proposed building a wall along the boarder Mexico said that they will come up, form an organization and stop us. Also yesterday here in PHX ILLEGAL Mexicans were protesting that they should be allowed in.
 
Newark777
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting Phxplanes (Reply 21):
Also yesterday here in PHX ILLEGAL Mexicans were protesting that they should be allowed in.

No need for cops to break that up, just roll an INS van up. I'm sure they won't stick around too long.  Wink

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:32 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 1):
US pressure on Bahrain to open trade with Israel, alienating it from other Gulf states.

God forbid it trade with one of the largest economies in the Middle East  Silly.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
Falcon84
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:41 am

Quoting Pbottenb (Reply 6):
3) Get off your ass and learn Spanish because wether you like it or not, your gonna need to.

I beg your pardon. THEY moved HERE, not the other way around, my friend. I agree with MattD here-let THEM learn the language that is spoken primarily in this country, if they want to be a part of it. No problem if they want to speak their native tongue amongst themselves, but when they're out and about, and the encounter (gasp!) English-speakers in this country, they should know the language.

I'm not required to know Spanish. It's not the dominate language in this nation, nor should it be. I shouldn't have to change the language that we've had here for over 400 years to satisfy the PC crowd, and those who are too lazy to learn English.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Derico
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Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:47 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 19):
Perhaps you could make better use of your education. It is obviously NOT the educated Latins that are sneaking across the border every night. It is NOT the educated Latins that are having seven to ten kids in a household with one income. Think about the actual topic of this thread before you give in to hypersensitivity.

Considering the whole post, it was somewhat of a blanket statement and believe or not there are those that read things like that and come to other conclusions of what the 'facts' are. Yet I didn't even adress your second statement about birth rates exactly because I do know who you were talking about.

A lot of the growth of child poverty in Argentina, unlike what everyone in Argentina and foreigners tend to preach (it's the polititians), is really in part due to the very high birth rates of immigrants from countries like the Paraguay, Bolivia, and Peru. It's just such a sensitive subject in Argentina that most Argentines deny talking about it for fear of being called racists. But a lot of the growth of the ghettos which before 1970 did not exist in Argentina is due to this immigration which over 30 years has been of a few million people. Once in the country, immigrant families of seven to 10 people are not uncommon. So poverty stemming from irrational birth rates is very real here and everyone knows that the poorest people in Argentina also have the most kids.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
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yowza
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:11 am

Quoting RAMPRAT980 (Reply 8):
Your country is one of the poorest nations in the world. Why don't you ask your government officials whats being done to stop the poverty in your country.....just a thought

My country happens to be Canada which I'm pretty sure is not one of the poorest countries in the world. Last time I checked we also have universal healthcare, something you might want to look into.

Beside even if I was Nepalese rather than Canadian what does that have to do with anything? Are citizens of poorer countries not entitled to an opinion?

Quoting Pbottenb (Reply 9):
This is a valid point, but I am convinced that it will never change.

Well the people of Nepal are suffering a lot due to a King that has no concern for his people and a communist uprising. Sadly there is not much in the way of natural resources for western companies and governments to give 2 shits about. If there was I'm 100% confident there would be a US (sorry "freedom loving coalition") military presence there to bring freedom to the downtrodden and maybe take a small cut of profits.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 23):
God forbid it trade with one of the largest economies in the Middle East .

I have nothing against Bahrain doing business with Israel, I was just making the point that they are doing this under US pressure and that it will ultimately hurt them as other GCC countries will not take kindly to their action.

YOWza
 
photopilot
Posts: 3101
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:52 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 13):
As this attitude becomes more prevalent, it makes me more and more motivated NOT to learn Spanish. Why should I learn a different language because these illegals are incapable of doing so? We should make it harder for them to live only speaking Spanish, not easier.

Harry

Una buena razón para aprender español es así usted no alardea su ignorancia. Hay más a la vida que la Taco Bell. Cuando usted entiende una lengua, usted entiende una cultura. En su situación, la ignorancia se hace una virtud.

A la gente española. Por favor perdone mi tentativa en su lengua hermosa. Al menos intento.

Oh and Harry..... if you'd bothered to learn Spanish you'd know what I said.

Hasta la Vista..... baby!!
 
Newark777
Posts: 8283
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:12 am

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 27):

That's the thing. I don't really care what you said. This is an English speaking country, and if you don't bother speaking English, I don't bother dealing with you. If I moved to a Spanish speaking country, I would make every effort to learn the language and assimilate into their culture. But in a nation where my relatives learned the language in less than a generation, it is almost insulting to see second and third generation immigrants refusing to learn. And let's not even go into the cost of it all, starting with ESL teachers, etc.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
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RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:44 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 28):
This is an English speaking country, and if you don't bother speaking English, I don't bother dealing with you

If any get to know you... odds are they'll wish they had not.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 24):
I beg your pardon. THEY moved HERE, not the other way around, my friend. I agree with MattD here-let THEM learn the language that is spoken primarily in this country, if they want to be a part of it. No problem if they want to speak their native tongue amongst themselves, but when they're out and about, and the encounter (gasp!) English-speakers in this country, they should know the language.

I once held this view and done a complete 180 on it.

Ohio and Pennsylvania are not California... but California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and Texas were Spanish speaking lands before they became english speaking ones, now given that history was replaced by another... only to be fused back again with 'latin flavor (culture, language, etc)... it's now too late (in this area) to turn that tide. I for one, am no longer enraged when I come across someone who can not speak english or speak it well, be it on the street or at some low-level service venue (7-11 or Target). I do get miffed when at the Ticket/Customer service counter at LAX-- but the same can happen at the UA counter in Heathrow with a Pakistani agent at the helm... so what's the diff? The world's gone global anyway, America had just better get it's ass in gear and become multilingual, many nations are ahead of us on this curve.. hopefully, our younger generations will see this as an advantage vs the old schoolers here who see it as a nuisance!


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:14 pm

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 27):
Una buena razón para aprender español es así usted no alardea su ignorancia. Hay más a la vida que la Taco Bell. Cuando usted entiende una lengua, usted entiende una cultura. En su situación, la ignorancia se hace una virtud.

A la gente española. Por favor perdone mi tentativa en su lengua hermosa. Al menos intento.

Oh and Harry..... if you'd bothered to learn Spanish you'd know what I said.

Hasta la Vista..... baby!!

Harry shouldn't be forced to learn another language in his native country.

Hasta la Vista....baby, right back at you!
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Newark777
Posts: 8283
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:42 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 29):
but California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and Texas were Spanish speaking lands before they became english speaking ones, now given that history was replaced by another... only to be fused back again with 'latin flavor (culture, language, etc)... it's now too late (in this area) to turn that tide.

Using that logic we should start speaking Native American languages.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 29):
I for one, am no longer enraged when I come across someone who can not speak english or speak it well, be it on the street or at some low-level service venue (7-11 or Target). I do get miffed when at the Ticket/Customer service counter at LAX-- but the same can happen at the UA counter in Heathrow with a Pakistani agent at the helm... so what's the diff?

I don't get angry when I encounter a Spanish speaking person either. I don't know them or their personal situation, and it is not my place to judge them. I do get angry, however when they are paid to do a job that involves communicating with the public (convenience store, Burger King, etc.), and their lack of basic communication skills makes my life harder. When I walk into the Burger King down the street and see a sign with Spanish written really large, with tiny English underneath it, I get pissed off.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
photopilot
Posts: 3101
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:09 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 30):
Harry shouldn't be forced to learn another language in his native country.

Hasta la Vista....baby, right back at you!

Gee, and I guess that when all the US rednecks go into a Taco Bell and order a Taco, Burrito. Nacho, Chalupa or Quesadilla, it's all the same to them cause they don't know what they're ordering.

Life has many flavours and language is just another flavour that allows you to appreciate another culture. To absorb the richness of a cultural mosaic, it's language, music, food, entertainment. To live in language isolationism denys you so much of what the world, and even your own country has to offer.

Forced to learn another language..... of course not. But it's the cultured thing to do if you are able. You're a better person for it.

Steve
 
Newark777
Posts: 8283
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:26 pm

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 32):

Hell, I wish I knew another language. I took Spanish for four years in high school, and it just didn't stick. Does this mean I am completely ignorant to Latin culture, and incapable of learning? Of course not. Would I understand it better if I knew the language? Probably.

But this is a complete different issue, and has nothing to do with Spanish speaking immigrants coming to the USA. They are coming to an English speaking country, and it is not our duty to accommodate them. If I decided to pack up and move to Mexico, I would not expect them to learn English and accommodate me either. It would be my responsibility to learn Spanish, or else I would have a hard time living there.

It is hard enough for born and bred Americans to break out of poverty, so how do we expect these people, many working low paying labor jobs, to break out of poverty, if they can't even interact with the citizens of their adopted homeland? It puts themselves at a great disadvantage, and we do them no service by just putting their kids in ESL classes, and providing no real motivation to learn English. They will be stuck in this position until they assimilate and strive for more, even if Billy Bob from Arkansas doesn't know what's in his Taco Bell Chalupa.

Now that I see I'm completely off topic, I'll stop, but I had to get that out.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:35 pm

Quoting Slider (Thread starter):
Mexico needs to pull its own head from its collective corrupt ass, shut up about dictating policy to us, and straighten itself out instead of making ridiculous immigration demands.

That's a switch. Usually it's us dictating policy to them. But then I suppose all's fair...

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
3DoorsDown
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:55 pm

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:46 pm

Quoting RNOcommctr (Reply 16):
Considering that the U.S. stole half of Mexico in the 1846-1848 Mexican-American War, I'd say Mexican residents are entitled to just about anything they want in this country.

Even citizens of the US aren't "entitled" to everything they want. Sure as hell illegals aren't.

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 22):
No need for cops to break that up, just roll an INS van up. I'm sure they won't stick around too long.

Just yell green card, they'll scurry like roaches
.

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 27):
Una buena razón para aprender español es así usted no alardea su ignorancia. Hay más a la vida que la Taco Bell. Cuando usted entiende una lengua, usted entiende una cultura. En su situación, la ignorancia se hace una virtud.

A la gente española. Por favor perdone mi tentativa en su lengua hermosa. Al menos intento.

Oh and Harry..... if you'd bothered to learn Spanish you'd know what I said.

Hasta la Vista..... baby!!

Who the fu$% cares what you said? A Canadian speaking Spanish and thinking we care. That's rich. Take of you hoser. Wow!!! I can speak Canadian, eh.  biggrin 

3DD
 
aaden
Posts: 819
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:49 am

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:55 pm

Quoting Slider (Thread starter):
The Mexican government is demanding more US immigration.

And if we don't ?

Quoting RAMPRAT980 (Reply 10):
The U.S. has to do something to put an end to this illegal immigration stuff. And I am not just talking about those crossing over from mexico. What about people who enter this country with every intention of overstaying their visa's

I agree we do have some serious problems with illegal immigration.
 
User avatar
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3708
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:13 pm

Want to end illegal immigration? Stop employing the immigrants and stop giving out unemployment checks to lazy Americans who think they're too good to work in an orchard or a fast food restaraunt. It's not like the people that come into this country are rampantly stealing highly coveted jobs from hard-working Americans...

Quoting RNOcommctr (Reply 16):
Considering that the U.S. stole half of Mexico in the 1846-1848 Mexican-American War, I'd say Mexican residents are entitled to just about anything they want in this country.

Must be ironic being "illegal" on land that used to belong to your people...
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:52 pm

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 33):
I took Spanish for four years in high school, and it just didn't stick.

Now that's alarming on so many levels...

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 31):
Using that logic we should start speaking Native American languages.

Consider yourself lucky... and you thought spanish was a barrier.

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 31):
When I walk into the Burger King down the street and see a sign with Spanish written really large, with tiny English underneath it, I get pissed off.

Multi-lingual America -- the future belongs to those who see it coming. If you don't -- look into become a 'Bitching Counselor', you'll have a steady steam of income.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
photopilot
Posts: 3101
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 11:16 am

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:59 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):
Multi-lingual America -- the future belongs to those who see it coming. If you don't -- look into become a 'Bitching Counselor', you'll have a steady steam of income.

BN747

 checkmark  checkmark  checkmark  checkmark 

Absolutely right-on and you've obviously seen the light and the future.
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:03 pm

Quoting RNOcommctr (Reply 16):
I'd say Mexican residents are entitled to just about anything they want in this country.

By all means..............come on down here and say that.  yes 
Crye me a river
 
User avatar
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3708
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:09 pm

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 31):
Using that logic we should start speaking Native American languages.

Not really, the U.S. wiped out most of the Native Americans that speak them. There are still plenty of people around speaking Spanish.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
Newark777
Posts: 8283
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:19 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 38):

Multi-lingual America -- the future belongs to those who see it coming. If you don't -- look into become a 'Bitching Counselor', you'll have a steady steam of income.

Maybe if I want a job that involves dealing with landscacpers of becoming a Burger King manager. To get a higher level job, these people need to get an education, and that probably involves learning English.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 41):

Not really, the U.S. wiped out most of the Native Americans that speak them. There are still plenty of people around speaking Spanish.

The logic was that people spoke Spanish in the Southwest before they spoke English. Well, that's all good and fine, but there were people before the Spanish speakers, and that really has no effect on today's situation.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
slider
Topic Author
Posts: 7717
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:21 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 29):
... but California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and Texas were Spanish speaking lands before they became english speaking ones, now given that history was replaced by another...

And they were Indian, er, sorry, Native American, before that...what's your point? History is never replaced, but added to.

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 31):
When I walk into the Burger King down the street and see a sign with Spanish written really large, with tiny English underneath it, I get pissed off.

You should see the Mexican flags in Houston. I go ballistic.

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 32):
But it's the cultured thing to do if you are able. You're a better person for it.

I have nothing against learning about other cultures, but I won't sacrifice my own in the process, and that's what's happening.

I denounce the elitism and air of sophistication that demands acknowledgement of multiculturalism...it's all well and good, but it's catastrophic for a country in the end that doesn't assimilate.
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:56 am

Quoting Photopilot (Reply 32):
Gee, and I guess that when all the US rednecks go into a Taco Bell and order a Taco, Burrito. Nacho, Chalupa or Quesadilla, it's all the same to them cause they don't know what they're ordering.

Life has many flavours and language is just another flavour that allows you to appreciate another culture. To absorb the richness of a cultural mosaic, it's language, music, food, entertainment. To live in language isolationism denys you so much of what the world, and even your own country has to offer.

You've got your own problems with bilingualism up where's you's at so why don't you stick to your knitting instead of indulging in the Canadian penchant for moral superiority. Hell, you've got an entire province that thinks they're Frenchmen. You haven't been able to integrate them in 200 years.

Hmmmmph. Poseur.

And skip the snide comments about rednecks. A redneck is a person who works outdoors and gets sunburned. Do you have something against people who work outdoors in the sun, or are you just being a supercilious snot and parading your ignorance?

To borrow a British country witticism, sod off.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
pbottenb
Posts: 403
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:50 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 30):
Harry shouldn't be forced to learn another language in his native country.

Hasta la Vista....baby, right back at you!

No one is forcing him to do anything.

My main point in all of this is that regardless of how any one person feels about it, there is not much that we can do about it. Its called inevitability...

I agree with the posters who voice concerns about some of the nationalistic movements such as La Raza...these are worrisome. But the fact of the matter is that IMO the U.S. is NEVER going to be willing to pay the cost of eliminating illegal immigration on our southern border...So, IMO we need to figure out a way to absorb them as Americans, and IMO in order to do this we will also need to change in order to do this.....In practical terms, I am going to make sure that my children have a very healthy exposure to the Spanish language (and Chinese).

Cheers

PB
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:35 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 43):
And they were Indian, er, sorry, Native American, before that...what's your point? History is never replaced, but added to.

The point is (your going ballastic so easily obscures your vison to the obvious) .. they were here before and they're back again. If the Native Americans made a run at having their language along side english everywhere... you'd be one of the 1st to bitch about that too. Perhaps out of deference to respect them.. you'd hold your tongue.. but internal simmering would result in you biting your tongue off before day's end.

Quoting Slider (Reply 43):
You should see the Mexican flags in Houston. I go ballistic.

Wow.. you truly are a troubled soul. Get some help dude.

Quoting Slider (Reply 43):
I denounce the elitism and air of sophistication that demands acknowledgement of multiculturalism...

And you have every right, just in the end, it's only going haunt you even more so as it becomes more and more a prevalent reality...everywhere! You'll find yourself graduating from 'ballistic' to apoplectic...

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19803
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 11):
buy all the American lesbo-feminists a one way plane ticket to Europe.

Hell yes, send us your lesbians!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:10 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 47):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 11):
buy all the American lesbo-feminists a one way plane ticket to Europe.

Hell yes, send us your lesbians!

Uh-unh. We get to keep them if they're hot.

You get the ones that look like your uncle Sid with the hair shaved off.


 scratchchin 
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Newark777
Posts: 8283
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

RE: Mexico Can Bite One...

Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:11 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 48):
Quoting Scbriml (Reply 47):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 11):
buy all the American lesbo-feminists a one way plane ticket to Europe.

Hell yes, send us your lesbians!

Uh-unh. We get to keep them if they're hot.

You get the ones that look like your uncle Sid with the hair shaved off.

It's not the lesbians you should be interested in, it's the bisexual women.  Wink

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?

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