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Bofredrik
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What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:51 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...26/palestinian.election/index.html

USA and EU think that Hamas is a terrorist organization.
But many palestinians see it different and maybe will
Hamas be the group that will lead the palestinians
in the future.

ANC in South Africa was earlier seen as a terrorist organization
by USA but is now accepted. Will the same happen with Hamas?

[Edited 2006-01-26 09:52:26]
 
Bofredrik
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:03 pm

-- In wake of apparent Hamas victory in Palestinian poll,
Palestinian Cabinet members resign, and say Hamas must form new
government.

CNN today.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:16 pm

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
USA and EU think that Hamas is a terrorist organization.
But many palestinians see it different

One mans terrorist is the other mans freedom fighter.
regds'
MEL
 
whitehatter
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:35 pm

Breaking on the BBC website...Hamas wins the Palestinian election and Querei resigns as Prime Minister

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4649606.stm

This does not bode well. Somehow it reminds me of the DUP winning in Northern Ireland and their hardline stance against Sinn Fein and Ireland. Having hardliners in a dominant position who are refusing to recognise or deal with their opponents means a halt to progress.

[Edited 2006-01-26 10:38:03]
 
gkirk
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:37 pm

Oh dear, Bush won't like this I think, and neither will Israel.
 
whitehatter
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:38 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 4):
Oh dear, Bush won't like this I think, and neither will Israel.

it could prove a substantial boost to Likud in the Israeli elections.
 
ryanb741
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:45 pm

Well the international community will have to recognise Hamas as the legitimate ruling party after democratic elections., like it or not.
Should be interesting Big grin
 
IAH777
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:50 pm

Its very tasty spread on a water cracker.
 
TheSonntag
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:53 pm

My opinion: Hamas is a terror group, but the PLO once was a terrorist group, as well.

I think there is nothing that justifies suicidal bombings. However, I have read that Hamas actually accepted the cease fire, so that the last suicidal bombings didn't come from Hamas but from other terrorist groups.

Therefore, I think that they might deserve another chance. This requires, however that they a) start to recognise Israel and b) don't start with the bombing again...

If it is possible to get Hamas on the negotiation table, peace could actually become more likely.
 
gkirk
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:58 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 8):
Therefore, I think that they might deserve another chance. This requires, however that they a) start to recognise Israel and b) don't start with the bombing again...

If it is possible to get Hamas on the negotiation table, peace could actually become more likely.

Good post!
 
Thorben
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:59 pm

I don't know what to think of Hamas. They bomb busses, but they also run schools and hospitals. Are they a terrorist organization with a charity wing, or a charity organization with a terror wing?

Anyway, Bush wants to promote democracy, Israel wants the Palestinian territories do be democratic, Bush also wanted the Palestinians to get a leadership free of corruption. The election seemed to be democratic and Hamas is not known for corruption, but I think that is still not what they wanted.

But maybe this is a chance for Hamas to become a non-violent organization.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:03 pm

The real problem with Hamas simply is that the party is a restrictive fundamentalist organisation, which wherever they got power reduced private freedom, closed bars and restaurant, prohibited alcohol and music, reduced and restricted the freedom of women. And the OTHER point is that concern is to be uttered whether there will EVER be democratic elections in Palestine again, or just elections Iran-way with only parties and politicians which get approved by the Hamas-government . Many Palestinians have seen the "social" face of them, but will they continue with their social welfare programs or simply show another, a real face ?
 
Thorben
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:14 pm

Hamas is probably full of hatred against Israel after the assassinations of Sheikh Ahmed Yassin and Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi. I wonder whether Fatah with Marwan Barghouti as a leader wouldn't have been somewhat better for Israel.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:22 pm

The problem with the Fatah is that their old leaders ( essentially Arafat's buddies) are considered to be highly corrupt and that they don't want to hand over power to a younger generation.
I wonder why it is not possible to have e.g. a conservative but democratic party like e.g. the German CDU or the British Tories, which would appeal to the conservative part of the population without being fundamentalist (surprisingly in Germany the Christian-Democrat Union CDU has quite a few Muslim members, who support their general conservatism and don't like the socialism of the Social Democrats or the Laissez Faire of the Liberal Democrat Party).

Jan
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:46 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 10):
But maybe this is a chance for Hamas to become a non-violent organization.

Just to remove any doubts:

Mushir al-Masri, a senior Hamas official, said Thursday that recognizing Israel and negotiations with the Jewish state are "not on our agenda." (AP)
 
Bofredrik
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:02 pm

It was USA that forced Israel to accept Hamas in the palestinian elections.
Israel itself would have stopped them...
 
Thorben
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:10 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 14):
Just to remove any doubts:

Mushir al-Masri, a senior Hamas official, said Thursday that recognizing Israel and negotiations with the Jewish state are "not on our agenda." (AP)

How many negotiations are there at the moment? I just read an article that said that there are no negotiations anyway and that the Palestinians want Hamas to clean up the corrupt administration.
 
erikwilliam
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:15 pm

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
Will the same happen with Hamas?

dude, to the US, it all depends

Osama killing 3.000 is terrorism (no doubt it is)

USA+coalition killing 30.000 in Iraq is the cost of war

Go figures
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 8):
My opinion: Hamas is a terror group, but the PLO once was a terrorist group, as well.

 checkmark  Interestingly, the are the now democratically elected gov't in Palestine. That will not sit well with Israel or the US . . . going to be interesting.

Quoting Erikwilliam (Reply 17):
dude, to the US, it all depends

Osama killing 3.000 is terrorism (no doubt it is)

USA+coalition killing 30.000 in Iraq is the cost of war

Go figures

First, EW, the question was "What do YOU think of the Hamas". Not what do you think the US thinks of the Hamas. And WTF with the bullshit numbers? Did you get stoned before posting this morning?
 
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casinterest
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:23 pm

Hamas, is the Nazi party of the 21st century.

They are running on a platform of intolerance, dispair , and hatred.
The palastinian people have been so repressed for so long that they will take any leadership they can get, even if it leads them straight to hell.

This election of hamas is going to cause more hardship than it eases in the middle east.
 
CaptOveur
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:26 pm

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 7):
Its very tasty spread on a water cracker.

Damn!! You beat me to it.
 
jacobin777
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:45 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
And WTF with the bullshit numbers? Did you get stoned before posting this morning?

bs numbers? according to "The Lanclet", a VERY well respected British Medical journal, the number is more than 3 TIMES that amount!

so its more like what the bloody 'f are you smoking?


"100,000 Iraqi dead--THE LANCET Report

The new study released in the U.K. this morning by the British medical journal of reference, THE LANCET, is devastating. Here's how The Independent summarized the report's findings:

"The first scientific study of the human cost of the Iraq war suggests that at least 100,000 Iraqis have lost their lives since their country was invaded in March 2003.

"More than half of those who died were women and children killed in air strikes, researchers say. Previous estimates have put the Iraqi death toll at around 10,000 - ten times the 1,000 members of the British, American and multi-national forces who have died so far. But the study, published in The Lancet, suggested that Iraqi casualties could be as much as 100 times the coalition losses. It was also savagely critical of the failure by coalition forces to count Iraqi casualties.""
 
ly7e7
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:53 pm

Well, I think it's quite simple : either hamas will change their agenda de juro and de facto or they will be dealing with very one-sided policies of Israel towards the future of the Palestinian state. And also mind that in the upcoming Israeli elections the chances are that Israel will be leaded by a centrist-right coaltion  Wink
 
Thorben
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:58 pm

Can we keep the Nazis and the US "war against terror" out of the discussion, pleeeze?

LY7E7 brought an interesting point to the discussion. How will this effect the upcoming Israeli election? This far it seemed that Kadima would be the winner, but the election victory of Hamas may change a lot in favor of Likud.

Netanjahu and Hamas, what a great combination.  sarcastic 
 
Aleksandar
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:02 am

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 22):
And also mind that in the upcoming Israeli elections the chances are that Israel will be leaded by a centrist-right coaltion

Does it mean that Kadima is still doing well in the latest poll? Can they win enough seats to form the new government by themselves?
 
ly7e7
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:04 am

Current polls show 44 seats to Kadima (leaded by Ehud Olmert, Sharon's right hand) , 22 to Labor (leaded by Amir Perez - with a bunch of corrupted union people) and 14 to Likud (with Netaniahu).

Hamas' victory is not expected to change Israeli public opinion in a drastic way. Maybe labor will loose some and Likud will earn some - but nothing major is expected
 
rjpieces
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:08 am

You can't preach democracy and then not be happy with the results. Hamas won; let them be the representatives of the Palestinians. Probably better than Fatah in all honesty. If Hamas fails to serve the Palestinian people well, then maybe in the next election they will be out.

That all being said, I really don't think it matters much who wins on the Palestinian side, but Israeli elections will determine a great deal. The last fifteen years have shown us that the Palestinian government is unwilling to dismantle terrorist groups. The months since the Gaza pullout have killed the idea that Israel pulling out of Gaza and the West Bank will create a flourishing "Palestine". Nonetheless, it has made Israel more secure.

Following Rabin's path to peace, trying to reform the Palestinians into an Israel-loving neighbor, is an absolute waste of time. The only possible method to peace was the path Sharon was following, and let's hope that the next Israeli leader follows after Israeli elections. And that is separating the Israelis and Palestinians as much as possible, erecting a security fence to literally separate the countries and stop suicide bombings (which it has), and pulling out of the 85-90% of the West Bank where 99% of Palestinians live).

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 5):
it could prove a substantial boost to Likud in the Israeli elections.

Only if there is a massive wave of suicide bombings.

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 8):
If it is possible to get Hamas on the negotiation table, peace could actually become more likely.

I 100% disagree with you. It is simply impossible to "force peace". Forcing them to sit down at a negotiating table they don't want to be at will not bring peace, even if they sign a "treaty".

Quoting Thorben (Reply 12):
Hamas is probably full of hatred against Israel after the assassinations of Sheikh Ahmed Yassin and Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi

Please, as if they were NOT full of hatred to Israel before that?
 
jacobin777
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:13 am

well....the White House wanted a democratic elections...and it got what it wants....

"be careful to what you ask for"......
 
ly7e7
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:14 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 27):
well....the White House wanted a democratic elections...and it got what it wants....

"be careful to what you ask for"......

Still better then enforcing Fatah's corrupt government
 
rjpieces
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:22 am

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 28):

Still better then enforcing Fatah's corrupt government

That's how I feel. If Hamas fails to serve the Palestinians, constant elections should keep solid parties in power. And if the Palestinian people truly don't want to recognize Israel, then there you go.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:40 am

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 28):
Still better then enforcing Fatah's corrupt government

Who actually tells you that the Hamas functionaries, once in office, not also are corrupt ? OK, el-Fatah has been at the head of the Palestinian movement (PLO>PA) since late 1968, which means more than 37 years, so that quite some rust developed. Under the given circumstances, I only hope that the Israeli government does not react in an ugly way.
 
rjpieces
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:41 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 30):
Who actually tells you that the Hamas functionaries, once in office, not also are corrupt ?

Most likely they will be (just like Republicans after 1994). But anything has to be better than Fatah IMO.
 
atco2b
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:43 am

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Prefer Beefas to be honest Big grin


Sorry  duck 
 
Dougloid
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:44 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 10):
I don't know what to think of Hamas. They bomb busses, but they also run schools and hospitals. Are they a terrorist organization with a charity wing, or a charity organization with a terror wing?

Anyway, Bush wants to promote democracy, Israel wants the Palestinian territories do be democratic, Bush also wanted the Palestinians to get a leadership free of corruption. The election seemed to be democratic and Hamas is not known for corruption, but I think that is still not what they wanted.

But maybe this is a chance for Hamas to become a non-violent organization.

Let us hope.

However, with respect to the results of elections, this points out the wisdom of the old saying "You should be careful of what you wish for, because you might get it."
 
Dougloid
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:54 am

The other thought occurs to me that in some quarters the phrase "Palestinian election" might be seen as something of an oxymoron along the lines of "Louisiana elections" or "legal ethics".

Anyway....call me the next time expatriate jews are allowed to go to the post office in muslim countries and vote for the candidate of their choice in Israeli elections-because that's what happened in Israeli post offices the other day.

Cheerio.
 
erikwilliam
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:55 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
And WTF with the bullshit numbers?

I´m just sayin, how many people died on 9/11?Wasn´t it around 3.000???
And how many died in Iraq???I bet it´s even more.
But just that.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
Did you get stoned before posting this morning?

nop man, I´m avoiding it these days, I figured that when stoned I tended to smoke more Malrboros
 
civ4b2fan
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:01 am

I think that all people should be allowed to express their views but in a reasonable manner. But as for the group they should all be lined up and shot
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 26):
That all being said, I really don't think it matters much who wins on the Palestinian side

On the contrary it matters a lot, HAMAS is a organization which has led the resistance against Israel for a long time infact it represents the new face of Palestine with support from all over the Muslim world. Bombing Palestine every other day is not a viable option and Israel most probably wants to live in peace for the rest of its existence thus the recent pull outs we have seen. I may sound a bit too optimistic but I think Likuid and Hamas may be the best candidates to strike a peace deal. Why you ask?

1. Israel seems to have realized in the past couple of years that peacefully co-existence with Palestine is the only option left for them if they want prosperity in their country thus the Israeli initiative is really there.

2. Hamas on the other hand have just won there first election as a majority on the agenda of destroying Israel which all of us know is not possible. Once the government is in place I am absolutely sure that Hamas will be ready to sit on the table with Israel and have talks, no doubt about that.

We must understand that if a peace deal is struck between these parties it will most likely last for a long time to come. Hamas has control over very may sectors of Palestine which means that violence will go down if both parties agree to have peace, we should have a positive feel from this development, at least with two strong people on the table we can hope something will happen.
 
rjpieces
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:30 am

quote=Emirates773ER,reply=37]1. Israel seems to have realized in the past couple of years that peacefully co-existence with Palestine is the only option left for them if they want prosperity in their country thus the Israeli initiative is really there.[/quote]

My friend, Israel has offered the Arabs a state in Palestine as far back as 1937. They have offered land countless times.

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 37):
2. Hamas on the other hand have just won there first election as a majority on the agenda of destroying Israel which all of us know is not possible. Once the government is in place I am absolutely sure that Hamas will be ready to sit on the table with Israel and have talks, no doubt about that.

What makes you so sure that an organization commited to Israel's destruction will all of a sudden embrace Israel?

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 37):
We must understand that if a peace deal is struck between these parties it will most likely last for a long time to come.

Optimtic statement, at best. Peace isn't about White House ceremonies and big signings.

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 37):
Hamas has control over very may sectors of Palestine which means that violence will go down if both parties agree to have peace,

Except Hamas has an interest in continuing the violence.

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 37):
Bombing Palestine every other day is not a viable option and Israel most probably wants to live in peace for the rest of its existence thus the recent pull outs we have seen.

It took Ariel Sharon removing 8,000 Jews from Gaza to convince you that 6,000,000 Israelis yearn for peace?

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 37):
I may sound a bit too optimistic but I think Likuid and Hamas may be the best candidates to strike a peace deal.

DREAMING! Kadima, perhaps. But Likud is already making a huge deal of Hamas being elected.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 38):
My friend, Israel has offered the Arabs a state in Palestine as far back as 1937. They have offered land countless times.

Can you clarify 1937 ?
 
rjpieces
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:45 am

 
cfalk
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:59 am

Ironically, perhaps the thought going through the heads of the leadership at Hamas, right after, "Yay, we won!", is "Oh, shit!"

It's one thing to be the opposition. Particularly when you have your own militia. You can bitch and complain about the way things are run, and peck away at the government's power base with little or no responsibility.

But when all of a sudden, the government quits and the people say, "SA Czech Airlines">OK, smart guys, now you take charge", things won't be so easy. Hamas will have to deal with foreign governments, taxes, the police, utilities, economic and fiscal policy, etc.

What you have is a terrorist ideological organization that has turned into a political party, while still having their terrorist militias. History has given us examples of such occurances. In the case of the IRA and their political offshoot Sinn Fein, things worked out pretty well, with the militia being demobilized. But the Nazis kept their SA stormtroopers, and ended up killing 46 million people.

Which option will Hamas choose? Who knows. But I would recommend that Europe, the US and Israel refuse to talk with Hamas until they at least renounce their intentions to destroy Israel.
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 38):
What makes you so sure that an organization commited to Israel's destruction will all of a sudden embrace Israel?

Because there is no other option, thinking about the destruction of Israel is like thinking of your own destruction.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 38):
Optimtic statement, at best. Peace isn't about White House ceremonies and big signings.

Its about commitment which both sides have never done.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 38):
Except Hamas has an interest in continuing the violence.

It only a guess but I think that statement will change in time, although much of it depends on the Iran-Israel scenario as well.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 38):
It took Ariel Sharon removing 8,000 Jews from Gaza to convince you that 6,000,000 Israelis yearn for peace?

Removing people from Gaza strip plus commiting to remove more illegal settlements and a public statement on several occasions that they want ties with the muslim world, they are yearning for peace alright.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 38):
DREAMING! Kadima, perhaps. But Likud is already making a huge deal of Hamas being elected.

I meant Kadima sorry, typing error.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:16 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 34):
Anyway....call me the next time expatriate jews are allowed to go to the post office in muslim countries and vote for the candidate of their choice in Israeli elections-because that's what happened in Israeli post offices the other day.

Jews do live in Morocco in considerable numbers and DO participate in parliamentary elections

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 34):
in some quarters the phrase "Palestinian election" might be seen as something of an oxymoron

what quarters ? and why an oxymoron ?  irked 

Quoting Civ4b2fan (Reply 36):
But as for the group they should all be lined up and shot

this "group" got into power thanks to demands of the USA

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 38):
Israel has offered the Arabs a state in Palestine as far back as 1937. They have offered land countless times.

Israel could NOT offer whatever before it was founded in 1948 . And the Arab side in 1948 did not agree to have more than half of the useful territory be given to a minority of less than 40% of the people. Later on, "offers" of Israel were so limited and restrictive that no Arab leader even could consider them . And it was NOT "countless times" . The success of Hamas right now to a wide extent is the result of the erection of additional Israeli settlements in the WestBank and the continued build-up of the "wall" which both gave the impression to the Palestinians that the Israelis were working to annex the WestBank and EastJerusalem anyway and were not really serious about the peace-process. And had the support of Washington in all of this.
 
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yowza
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:33 am

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 7):
Its very tasty spread on a water cracker.

Beat me to it  Wink

YOWza
 
FDXmech
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:46 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 27):
well....the White House wanted a democratic elections...and it got what it wants....

"be careful to what you ask for"......

Democratic elections shouldn't be the a privilige bestowed on select nations. Maybe wishful thinking, but I tend to think, "All politics are local", including this election. I imagine the average Palestinian voter voted not on the "Big picture" (as we were all hoping), but on the kick the bums out mentallity that democratically held elections allows us to do.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 37):
infact it represents the new face of Palestine with support from all over the Muslim world.

They were represented by terrorists before (Arafat & Co.) so nothing there's new in this respect (well maybe Hamas will not even pretend they understand anything else but military force) and I don't think that "suppport from all over Muslim world" for a extremist group preaching hatred and destruction of Israel is something really surprising either.
 
cedarjet
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:08 am

Quoting Ryanb741 (Reply 6):
Well the international community will have to recognise Hamas as the legitimate ruling party after democratic elections., like it or not.

Exactly right.

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 8):
This requires, however that they a) start to recognise Israel

What?! They were elected in part because they do not recognise Israel. The Palestinian people sure as hell don't recognise a load of Poles, Russians, Ethiopians, South Africans, Americans etc turning up and taking over their land. Why should their elected leaders betray them and accept defeat?

Quoting Thorben (Reply 10):
But maybe this is a chance for Hamas to become a non-violent organization.

When Israel and their huge US-funded military become a non-violent organisation, then maybe...
 
Falcon84
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RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting Bofredrik (Thread starter):
USA and EU think that Hamas is a terrorist organization.

USA and EU are correct.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 10):
Anyway, Bush wants to promote democracy, Israel wants the Palestinian territories do be democratic, Bush also wanted the Palestinians to get a leadership free of corruption.

And the President has said, and correctly, I think, that he will not rule out dealing with Hamas, and I agree with the President that Hamas needs to change it's long-held and public stance on Israel, or it's no dice. On that, I back him 100%

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 22):
Well, I think it's quite simple : either hamas will change their agenda de juro and de facto or they will be dealing with very one-sided policies of Israel towards the future of the Palestinian state.

Agreed. Blowing up Jews is realtively easy next trying to GOVERN a would-be nation, next to the nation that you've said you wanted to destroy.

Hamas is either going to be stupid, and continue on their "Destroy Israel" ways, or they'll sober up and realize that if they want a legit Palestinian State, they're going to have to deal, honestly, with Israel and the United States.

It's an opportunity, and the ball is in the court of Hamas. Let's see if they pull an Arafat and screw it up, or pull a Sadat and change their ways.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 26):
You can't preach democracy and then not be happy with the results.

Difference between being happy with the results and ACCEPTING the results. The latter is, seemingly, what many so-called political parties that lose around the world have failed to differentiate, which is why in many places you have these factional conflicts: if the vote doesn't go their way, to them it's a license for violence, not compromise.
 
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zippyjet
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: What Do You Think Of Hamas?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:27 am

THEY SUCK!

Those elections were about as honest as our elections in 2000 and 2004!
You can pour honey on shit but it's still SHIT!

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