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alberchico
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South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:48 am

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Logan22L
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:56 am

Quoting Alberchico (Thread starter):
Its about damm time.............

Why - do you own a clinic in North Dakota and business has been slow? Or have you volunteered to adopt?
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alberchico
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:58 am

There are MANY people who share my point of view........
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srbmod
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:59 am

Several states are in various stages of passing such laws as a test of the new make up of the Supreme Court. This is probably the most serious challenge to Roe v. Wade in years.
 
stlgph
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:01 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 2):
There are MANY people who share my point of view........

and there are probably many people that think you might be a good example of why someone should be pro choice.

so what is your point?

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3):
Several states are in various stages of passing such laws as a test of the new make up of the Supreme Court. This is probably the most serious challenge to Roe v. Wade in years.

and it comes in all places, first, South Dakota, where, to be honest, any type of population is probably needed. they have to keep Sturgis alive and strong for generations to come.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 4):
any type of population is probably needed.

. . . . population control . . . I guess you meant that . . .

Agreed.

This will certainly be a test for the newly sitting SCotUS. State law attempting to trump Federal Law. . . .

It will be interesting to watch this.

FYI: My stance on abortion is simple: It's the woman's call . . . . not the church, not the gov't, not the doctor, not the neighbor . . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
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alberchico
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:10 am

Keep in mind that South Dakota is probaly more conservative than most other states so that might be the reason why this bill popped up there. It would be much tougher to ban abortion here in New York for example...
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alberchico
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:11 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):
FYI: My stance on abortion is simple: It's the woman's call . . . . not the church, not the gov't, not the doctor, not the neighbor . . . .

What if the woman is under so much pressure that she's not able to make a rational decision ???
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ANCFlyer
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:12 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 7):
What if the woman is under so much pressure that she's not able to make a rational decision ???

Pressure, like ready to explode??? Like too much gas??? Too many Jalapenos with her taco salad???

Paint the scenario.
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whitehatter
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 7):
What if the woman is under so much pressure that she's not able to make a rational decision ???

Why does a 21 year old man presume he has the right to speak for women?

Please list your experience of being a woman.
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alberchico
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:15 am

Like if the people around her pressure her to get an abortion or if her boyfriend threatens to walk away from the relationship. Nobody should be forced to get an abortion because of outside circumstances....
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lh477
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 7):
What if the woman is under so much pressure that she's not able to make a rational decision ???

Like from her church leaders, parents, etc not to abort? It cuts both ways.
As Anc says, it's her decision. If she is under duress, there should be counselling available to allow her to make the right choice for her.
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Logan22L
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 9):
Please list your experience of being a woman.

There's a signed by post lurking in there somewhere.

Back on topic,

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 6):
It would be much tougher to ban abortion here in New York for example

That really depends on whether abortion is a State issue or a Federal issue. In many ways, this is the same concept as the gun control issue. First you take away a "small part," then the next part they take away gets them that much closer to taking it all. The "give 'em an inch, they'll take a mile" concept. Sounds like this is a litmus test for the Nation.
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Jean Leloup
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 10):
Nobody should be forced to get an abortion

Who here is suggesting that anyone should be forced to get an abortion? Are you suggesting that abortion should be illegal because if it's legal, some people might be forced to do it? So if it's illegal, no one will be forced to do it, right? Everything will be cool?

Bizarre line of reasoning.

JL
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TheSorcerer
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:20 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 10):
Nobody should be forced to get an abortion because of outside circumstances....

Nobody should be forced out of the it by the church or government, No matter how much pressure she is under, she's got a right to choose what she does, unlike the church and the government.
Dominic
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ANCFlyer
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 10):
Like if the people around her pressure her to get an abortion or if her boyfriend threatens to walk away from the relationship

Pssst . . . pressure . . . my butt.

Woman's choice . . . that's what I said. Woman's choice. Not mine, yours, the gov'ts, the church, the neighbors, the boyfriends . . . .

Woman's choice.
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alberchico
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 14):
Who here is suggesting that anyone should be forced to get an abortion? Are you suggesting that abortion should be illegal because if it's legal, some people might be forced to do it? So if it's illegal, no one will be forced to do it, right? Everything will be cool?

Bizarre line of reasoning.

I'm simply saying that many women get pressured to get an abortion by outside factors and stress of losing the relationship and then later on they'll end up regretting it.

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 10):
Nobody should be forced to get an abortion because of outside circumstances....

That's what I said earlier. How that is bizzare I don't know .......


Don't put words in my mouth buddy.  Angry  Angry  Angry
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airtran737
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:24 am

I am a hardcore Republican, but with that I am pro-choice (unless it's my child an I am pro-life.) This law puts too many limits on abortions. It doesn't allow abortions for instances such as rape and incestuous relationships. I think that we will see this law being argued on the floor of the Supreme Court very soon, and i personally believe that it will be upheld.
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alberchico
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 16):
What gives you the right to speak for women? List your exerience of being a woman.

So because it dosen't affect me I shouldn't give a rats ass ???

Its exactly because of that attitude that Americans are hated throughout the world......
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jap
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 2):
There are MANY people who share my point of view........

A lot of them being men... and they have no idea what they're talking about and shouldn't even have a say in this matter!

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 7):
What if the woman is under so much pressure that she's not able to make a rational decision ???

Then she probably won't be a very good mother either...

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 11):
ITS CALLED DOING THE RIGHT THING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I resent that... what if say, your girlfriend gets pregnant at 15 (just picture this...) neither of you are ready to be a parent... or a girl has a mental disease that would make her incapable of being a mother...

As for adoption.. how do you think children feel about that? "why didn't my parents want me, why don't they want to talk to me now, where are they?"... I've met more than one adoptee who's downright told me that they would've rather died than going through the mental anguish that adoption brings with it...

On the other hand, I do agree that abortion should be restricted so you can't use it as a contraception... but people who think long and hard about it and still comes to the conclusion than an abortion would be best for all parts (yes, even the child... which is basically just a bunch of cells in most cases of surgical and medical abortion) really deserves to be able to make this decission....
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airtran737
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:27 am

A thought just came to mind. This law could be great for my buddy Tyrone. He does back alley abortions for only $40.00. He uses a crocheting needle and a bent coat hanger (which he pours Mad Dog on for sterilization). Man, Tyrone is going to get rich off of this one. I gotta go call him. Can I get a buddy pass to South Dakota?
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777236ER
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:30 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 10):
Nobody should be forced to get an abortion

The law doesn't force people to get an abortion. Conversely, were abortion banned, people would be forced to not get an abortion...or use a coathanger. Expect thousands of dead young women the year after abortion is outlawed.

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 7):
What if the woman is under so much pressure that she's not able to make a rational decision ???

Oh, well then let's ban all medical proceedures! After all, there's the risk in any medical proceedure that consent is forced.
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airtran737
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 16):
What gives you the right to speak for women? List your exerience of being a woman.

I think every man should have a say in whether his partner can have an abortion. I don't know if there has ever been litigation between a man who wants to have the child and a woman who wants to abort it, but I'm sure it has come up.


Besides, you can always go Fried Green Tomatoes on her shove her down the stairs. That's an at home abortions for relatively cheap.
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alberchico
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting Jap (Reply 21):
On the other hand, I do agree that abortion should be restricted so you can't use it as a contraception...

That is my biggest complaint about abortion. It is too often used as sick form of birth control. Many lazy and reckless people instead of using condoms or proper birth control simply resort to abortion.
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alberchico
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 23):
Do you want to see the time where coat hanger abortions make a come back?

Those back-alley coat hanger stories were greatly exxagerated, I doubt that they are true.....

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 23):
You talk about pressure...How about when the gu Fucks off when he finds out his girl frind it pregnant......How as slow as the jusstice system is it takes years to get any satisfaction from the cucil system with regards to a deadbeat Dad.

So a woman should get an abortion just to keep the guy from running away. That's called being pressured

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 25):
Oh, well then let's ban all medical proceedures! After all, there's the risk in any medical proceedure that consent is forced.

You know that there is a risk of an infection in some abortion cases....
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777236ER
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:37 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 27):
That is my biggest complaint about abortion. It is too often used as sick form of birth control. Many lazy and reckless people instead of using condoms or proper birth control simply resort to abortion.

So it really matters to the foetus under what pretence it is aborted?

What experience do you have with women who abort foetuses as contraception?
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alberchico
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting LH477 (Reply 28):
So you now determine what's right and wrong.....

Not me , the U.S Supreme Court.
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mrocktor
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:40 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 16):
What gives you the right to speak for women? List your exerience of being a woman.

Completely irrelevant. The issue is rights and all one need to be able to discuss it is to be capable of rational thought.

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 26):
I think every man should have a say in whether his partner can have an abortion.

I disagree entirely. A pregnancy affects the woman's body, why should you have a say in whether she should have to go through with it? "Have a say" nicely masks the issue, the real question is:

Q: Should a man be able to force a woman to unwillingly gestate and bear a child?
A: Absolutely not, under no circumstance.

mrocktor
 
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alberchico
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:41 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 30):
So it really matters to the foetus under what pretence it is aborted?

What experience do you have with women who abort foetuses as contraception?

It cannot be used simply at whim because of women who are too lazy or retarted to use birth control. There has to be limits to everything......
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Doona
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:41 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 17):
Woman's choice. Not mine, yours, the gov'ts, the church, the neighbors, the boyfriends . . . .

And like always, everytime I lose faith in ANCFlyer because of him being a gun-totin' tobaccy-spittin' yokel, he goes and says something like this, reminding me that he is, in fact, a decent man. Hats off.

Cheers
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:44 am

Quoting Mrocktor (Reply 32):
A pregnancy affects the woman's body, why should you have a say in whether she should have to go through with it?

It seems to me that an abortion affects someone else as well. The fetus. If a society is judged by how it treats the weakest members what does it say about a society that refuses to proect those who literally can't speak for themselves.

I find it funny that you stopped participating in the other thread once the hard questions started to get asked only to pop up here. I guess the old saying is true - he who fights and runs away....
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777236ER
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:44 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 29):
You know that there is a risk of an infection in some abortion cases....

Did you even understand what I was saying?

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 33):
It cannot be used simply at whim because of women who are too lazy or retarted to use birth control. There has to be limits to everything......

Like I said before, exactly what experience do you have with women who use abortion as contraception, and who are you to say it's wrong?
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alberchico
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 36):
Like I said before, exactly what experience do you have with women who use abortion as contraception, and who are you to say it's wrong?

And I suppose you have experience to speak in their favor ???
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Doona
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:48 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 38):
And I suppose you have experience to speak in their favor ???

He's not the one dictating to women what they should not be allowed to do.

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
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alberchico
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting Doona (Reply 39):
He's not the one dictating to women what they should not be allowed to do.

Neither am I. I am simply supporting a bill that is up for debate in South Dakota.
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777236ER
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 38):
And I suppose you have experience to speak in their favor ???

I'm not dictating to women what they should and shouldn't do. Abortion laws give women an option - they don't force women to have abortions.
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greasespot
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 29):
So a woman should get an abortion just to keep the guy from running away. That's called being pressured

No what i am saying is they guy runs away period. does not even give her the chance to consider an abortion or not.....So the woman is stuck being pregnant and has no support. Are you willing to support the woman? I bet you are also for cutting welfare and social programs that the woman is going to need if you are going to force her to have the abortion.

Oh BTW how many unwanted kids have you adopted or are supporting?

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 29):
Those back-alley coat hanger stories were greatly exxagerated, I doubt that they are true.....

ummm no actually they were not. There are many documented cases. Did they make up the majority? Probabbly not. BUt why should ANY woman have to go through it. The majority were illegal ones in a doctors clinic but why should a woman have to undergo a procedure that is illegal. Yet at the same time the man walks away scot free...?


Any ways you should learn to argue a point on this from Pope. At least he is able to back his arguments up with facts instead of throwing out one line sound bites like you are doing.

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
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alberchico
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:56 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 43):
Any ways you should learn to argue a point on this from Pope. At least he is able to back his arguments up with facts instead of throwing out one line sound bites like you are doing.

That's bacause I'm being passionate about this issue !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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777236ER
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 44):

That's bacause I'm being passionate about this issue !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was passionate with girl after girl at uni. That doesn't mean it was a good thing.
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Doona
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:00 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 45):
I was passionate with girl after girl at uni. That doesn't mean it was a good thing.

I could ask if any of these girls had to visit a particular clinic after the 'passion', but I'm not going to  silly 

Cheers
Mats
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greasespot
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:00 am

No being passionate is being able to back up what you say. What you are is obstinate on the issue. You only are taking what your parents taught you and regurgitating it. I believe you are just echoing what you have been taught growing up. What your so called arguments are doing is pissing people off. You are not coming accross as intellegent, just a whiney kid.

GS
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Pope
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:00 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 42):
yes but a fetus up to a certain point can't function on its own as a living organism. so, to quote Bush, "eat the poor," and therefore, doesn't count.

Would a fireman in a coma for 10 years who needs to be fed through a GI tube and kept on a ventilator to breath lose any rights? They certainly can't function as a living organism without help.

Granted that one (the fetus) requires the mother to live and the other requires a machine to live, the two aren't completely interchangeable, but how about after viability? If a fetus could be kept alive on purely mechanical means would you then support a ban on abortion after that point? If so, how do you address the issue of viability being a sliding scale, getting earlier every couple of years as science advances?
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Jean Leloup
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:00 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 44):
That's bacause I'm being passionate about this issue !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And largely because of that, you are arguing incoherently. Greasespot has it right... there are lots of people on here who can make valid arguments against abortion (I have no problem acknowledging this, even though I am fundamentally pro-choice), but you do not appear to be one of them. Try thinking calmly and making some points that do not depend on emotion and strange hypothetical situations that you're devising. If you can't do it, then just let Pope speak on your behalf  Wink. He's at least thinking clearly.

JL
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alberchico
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:01 am

Then why do many politicians support a ban ???
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777236ER
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 48):

Would a fireman in a coma for 10 years who needs to be fed through a GI tube and kept on a ventilator to breath lose any rights? They certainly can't function as a living organism without help.

In my mind, the justification for abortion comes from the intellect of the foetus. If the foetus is not sentient, abortion is perfectly fine. I don't see why abortion should be allowed after 3 months, save for medical and exceptional circumstances though.
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Jean Leloup
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:05 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 50):
Then why do many politicians support a ban ???

Either because they have sincere, well thought-out concerns (perhaps like Pope's), or because they are ensuring votes by pandering the the lowest common denominator among their constituents, i.e., you.

JL
Jean Leloup - original a.net moderator (2001-2005) and still recovering!
 
stlgph
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 48):
Would a fireman in a coma for 10 years who needs to be fed through a GI tube and kept on a ventilator to breath lose any rights? They certainly can't function as a living organism without help.

pull the plug, Michael Schiavo.

Quoting Pope (Reply 48):
Granted that one (the fetus) requires the mother to live and the other requires a machine to live, the two aren't completely interchangeable, but how about after viability? If a fetus could be kept alive on purely mechanical means would you then support a ban on abortion after that point? If so, how do you address the issue of viability being a sliding scale, getting earlier every couple of years as science advances?

growing kids in a petry dish only worked in the plot of "My Stepmother is an Alien."

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 50):
Then why do many politicians support a ban ???

because Je$u$ is all the rage the days.
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greasespot
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RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:10 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 50):
Then why do many politicians support a ban ???

Your holding up a politician as an example as what is good about this issue? Politicians main job is to get re-elected....So they will try to appeal to the greatest voting bloc.

What i wonder what percentage of men are pro choice and what percent of women are pro choice. I suspect that it is a lot more women than men. ( i am looking this up with google)


BTW i am still waiting to hear ho many unwanted kids you are supporting. Why are you not putting your money where your mouth is?

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 2):
There are MANY people who share my point of view........

That doesn't make it right.

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 11):
ITS CALLED DOING THE RIGHT THING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

According to who? So if a woman had a good chance of dying without an abortion, it's the right thing to just watch her die?

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 50):
Then why do many politicians support a ban ???

And why do so many argue against it? So far all of your arguments hold no merit, and are just random spouts of opinion...

I will always say that it should be up to the woman...it's her body, the fetus is physically attached to her system until it's born. I don't really support anything after 3 months unless it is a threat to the woman's own health (and/or life). Nobody's saying abortion is always the right thing to do, but taking the option away completely isn't right either.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10185
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: South Dakota To Ban Abortion

Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:14 am

"The bill passed by a vote of 23 to 12 after opponents tried unsuccessfully to attach amendments that would have created exceptions for cases of rape and incest . . . "

This does wonders for the world's opinion of South Dakota's lawmakers.

And it also goes to show the extremism of their real beliefs.

I wonder what they'd do if their daughters were raped? Take the first Northwest flight to Minnesota?
Atheism is Myth Understood.

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