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Toulouse
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 22):
Moreover, it is essential to reach a rational decision - which won't be achieved if you are suffering from emotional blindness (as a lot of repliers herein evidently are). An irrational decision will be unjust and unreasonable and thus unacceptable.

Of course, so let's just forget that the irrational decision taken by this criminal was totally unjust, unreasonable and thus unacceptable when he decided to rape the girl instead of trying to save her life.

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 22):
Then bigger fool you - you're one step behind this man.

[email protected]: I did not insult you despite totally disagreeing with you. Don't call me a fool or claim that I am one man behind a person who rapes a 14 yearold. I really do expect you to apologise for this comment and remove it. Thank you.

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 22):
Judges are trained professionals who are hopefully as unbiased as possible.

"Hopefully" is the key word there.

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 22):
you'll find that 9 years is not bad at all - even if it does seem rather low

"Rather low", extremely low I'd say, but at least we are slightly in agreement on this.

Quoting RobertNL070 (Reply 24):
I beg to differ: animals would never commit such heinous crimes. Unfortunately mankind does on a regular basis!

True, an insult to animals.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 28):
Bull-crap.

Thanks 767Lover for the support! I really do appreciate that.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 31):
WHat possible justification was there for the judge in this case to award such an inappropriately weak sentence?

Exactly.

Quoting PROSA (Reply 32):
Not only was the rape bad enough in its own right, but another factor to consider is that the man performed it instead of summoning the medical help that might have saved the girl's life.

Very true.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 35):

The legal system is at fault obviously. I admit I know little about the British legal system, but I do remember studying it briefly at university where it was described as one of the most archaic out-of-date systems in the developed world.

Quoting Nancy (Reply 44):
Having read the article it also seems like criminally negligent homicide at least. His actions reveal him to be an immense threat to civilized society. The crime itself shows that he can never be trusted around people. Other crimes, you can learn you lesson and move on, like stealing a car. Most people want a car, the impulse is understandable. Most people don't want to rape anyone at all, less a relative, even less so a dying relative. If it is within you to rape your dying stepdaughter, there is no fixing that. If there is a second when your grievously injured relative is bleeding on the floor and you look at her and think "Hey should I call 911 or rape her?" just off yourself. He should never be allowed another chance to hurt someone.

Very well put Nancy.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
[email protected]
Posts: 16616
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:55 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 52):
Of course, so let's just forget that the irrational decision taken by this criminal was totally unjust, unreasonable and thus unacceptable when he decided to rape the girl instead of trying to save her life.

And he has been sentenced appropriately.

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 52):
"Rather low", extremely low I'd say, but at least we are slightly in agreement on this.

Are you a lawyer? An academic? Do you have all of the facts to make a decision? Somehow I doubt it. Oooh...

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 52):
I admit I know little about the British legal system

Clearly, considering there's no British legal system.  sarcastic 

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 52):
I do remember studying it briefly at university where it was described as one of the most archaic out-of-date systems in the developed world.

I guess that explains why a lot of English law is adopted elsewhere, like a huge amount of English contract law has been adopted in America. Please refrain from commenting until you know at least the raw basics.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
[email protected]
Posts: 16616
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RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:56 am

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 50):
So what would you do??

Read above.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:25 am

A possible life sentance and he recieves nine years? With the compounding factors of neglecting to summon aid, the victim being a minor, and probable delinquence of a minor?

No, that isn't a justified sentance, even if it is double the average.

I must wonder [email protected], what would you consider a suitable rape to get the maximum sentance? Since rapeing your drunk, dieing, under-age daughter isn't it.

Let's examine some normal guidlines used in sentanceing.

Was the attack aggravated by force or a victim unable to defend themselves? Yes

Was the attacker in a position of authority over the victim? Yes

Was there another crime or crimes committed during the event? Yes

Was the attack against a minor? Yes

Was there pre-meditation in the attack? Yes

There had better be some pretty good mitigating evidence involved or there is no reason to not give this man the maximum penalty for this crime, as well as chargeing him with a slew of others. Criminally negligent homocide not the least of them. His actions, and lack there of, can be easily argued as a direct contributing factor to his childs death.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:09 am

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 53):

I notice you happily quote large parts of my post but chose to ignore my request for an apology for your rude and uncalled for comments. And I thought you were a sensible poster. Big mistake. I must say Pearson, you have been rude and your tone appears entirely arrogant (notice I say you're tone, I'm not saying you are arrogant...).

May I aslo ask you what right you have to ask me or anybody else on here to "refrain from commenting"?

[Edited 2006-02-24 23:12:15]
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:20 am

Pearson, may I also ask you how close have you ever been to a victim of rape or other sexual abuse?
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
smokescreen
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:41 am

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:25 am

A couple of questions, as I am no expert in the law, British or otherwise:

Under what (if any) circumstances has the maximum life sentence ever been handed down?

Will the man face any further charges relating to his crime (in the US I would think criminal negligence or depraved indifference would apply, and a skilful prosecutor might even get manslaughter)?

I will say 9 years does seem a bit lenient...
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
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RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:45 am

Quoting Smokescreen (Reply 58):

Under what (if any) circumstances has the maximum life sentence ever been handed down?

probably repeat offender. Judges are left to determine sentences from a tarriff list, which can be appealed if the CPS think it too lenient.

However the judiciary is independent and follows the guidelines, and challenges are rare. British judges are apolitical and appointed from the ranks of senior barristers. Judges are appointed and progress upwards by promotion rather than political appointment.

The Government sets guidelines for sentencing via a three way arrangement between the Home Secretary, Home Office civil service and also the Judiciary via the Lord Chancellor's office. The judges are then free to interpret that as they see fit under the circumstances, such as with murder where the mandatory sentence is life but the judge can set a minimum tarriff before parole and release on life licence can be considered. That can be anything from ten years or so to never.

Quoting Smokescreen (Reply 58):
Will the man face any further charges relating to his crime

Doubtful, double jeopardy applies. He has been prosecuted for the crime and further prosecution would possibly invoke that rule. Plus it would be pointless and a waste of time and money. He has been prosecuted for the most serious crime and found guilty.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
skysurfer
Posts: 1034
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RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:02 am

I read this on the BBC website at 7am this morning before i left for work and wondered just what a sh!tty world we live in. I got home from work at 5:30pm to read on BBC news that a guy had been given a life sentence for killing his baby boy of only 92 days, i won't even mention the injuries he inflicted.......unfortunately all the UK can do is jail him. Some people really do not deserve to live....it would be nice (only in my opinion) to give this guy a beating everyday for the rest of his life.

A not so happy cheers

[Edited 2006-02-25 01:14:22]
In the dark you can't see ugly, but you can feel fat
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
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RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 59):
Doubtful, double jeopardy applies. He has been prosecuted for the crime and further prosecution would possibly invoke that rule.

Not unless you operate under a different definition of Double Jeopardy.

He was prosecuted for the rape, not for any other crimes that took place.

He can still be prosecuted for other crimes commited during the crime for which he has been tried.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 59):
He has been prosecuted for the most serious crime and found guilty.

I would consider criminally negligent homicide to be a more serious offense.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Alphafloor889
Posts: 17
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RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:36 am

isent the penalty for rape to high anyways? I mean isen´t it worse to get really badly For example if you beat a person really bad, perhaps make that person disabled for life in someway, then you often get a milder penalty than if you would rape anyone. is that really right?

I dont know, but it seems worse to get really badly beaten than get raped by, for example someone you know well.
 
smokescreen
Posts: 217
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RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:28 am

Quoting Alphafloor889 (Reply 62):
I dont know, but it seems worse to get really badly beaten than get raped by, for example someone you know well.

Oh, man. You might get flamed for this... I'll try and enlighten you -

Rape is deemed a particularly heinous crime for a few reasons.
Firstly, the act of rape CAN cause long-term physical disabilities. Without getting too graphic, violent forced penetration can leave a victim with serious reproductive issues and possible damage to the excretory organs.
Another serious issue is the emotional impact that such a violation can have on the victim. Many rape victims (male and female) are left psychologically unable to engage in an intimate relationship for the rest of their lives. One could argue that this is just as crippling as a physical disability.
This is even more so when the rapist is someone close to the victim, like a parent (as in this case), or a friendly acquaintance (as is the case in the majority of so-called "date-rape" cases, which are just as despicable as, and much more common than, the more stereotypical stranger-in-the-bushes attacks). Imagine trying to form a trusting relationship with anyone after you have been violated in this way.
It's also important to note that rape is frequently accompanied with other acts of violence, such as battery and forcible confinement.

Most civilised individuals correctly view rape as a horrible abuse of power by the strong over the weak (or in this terrible case the incapacitated), and even though there remains a sad tendency by some to laugh it off as "boys will be boys" or "she was asking for it", it deserves to be treated just as seriously as a debilitating physical assault (which is exactly what a rape is, anyway).

Sermon over - hope I changed your mind.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:38 am

Very odd... in the United States this man would have been charged with both rape and murder, not just rape.

N
 
Jean Leloup
Posts: 2004
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 10:46 am

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:04 am

Quoting Alphafloor889 (Reply 62):
I dont know, but it seems worse to get really badly beaten than get raped by, for example someone you know well.

As far as the victim's psychology is concerned, getting raped is far, far, far more damaging than being 'beat up really badly'. And it's just as bad, and quite probably worse, if it's by someone you know. I'm surprised you would think that makes it better. Also, keep in mind that those who are raped are quite often beaten, too!

In other words, no, the penalty for rape is not too high. I think it is the most heinous crime after murder, to be sure.

Having said all that, though, I have to say I am taking [email protected]'s side on this one. I don't think 9 years is unreasonable. The problem, I believe, in these discussions, is that we all have different ideas of what is fair, different ideas of how the justice system should operate, and so we often talk over each other's heads. This is most evident in death penalty debates, but it is happening here too. You see, not everyone has the same idea of what jail/sentences are for. I see four major options:

1) To punish the offender ("Give him what he deserves.")
2) To deter other potential criminals ("Giving a big penalty will scare other people from committing murder.")
3) To protect society from the offender ("Keep these people away from me and my family, etc.")
4) To rehabilitate the offender ("Teach him his lessons; try and cure these sick elements of society".)

Most of you would agree that all of these are valid to some extent, in some circumstances. But we all emphasize different ones. People need to realize that others have different philosophies on justice if they want to have meaningful dialogue. In this thread, most people seem to be subscribing to view #1, and probably implicitly #2. #3 has also come up a couple of times, though less directly. No one has shown much interest in #4.

Personally, I think #1 is a very deply flawed approach, which shouldn't be overemphasized. And I think #2 is almost complete BS. I focus on #3, which often entails #4 as a logical extension. And so I don't see anything inherently unfair about this sentence*. Fire at will, but there it is.

JL

*Of course, the issue of whether he is guilty of murder would change things. I am simply talking about the penalty for the sexual assault.
Jean Leloup - original a.net moderator (2001-2005) and still recovering!
 
Alphafloor889
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:56 am

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:05 pm

Quoting Smokescreen (Reply 63):
Rape is deemed a particularly heinous crime for a few reasons.



Quoting Smokescreen (Reply 63):
Sermon over - hope I changed your mind.

Yeah, you have some good points in that post.

you always hear that the victim get pshycicaly tramatised after a rape.
And sure, that is probably true in some way. But there is also a another theroy that some younger girls are not so "unhappy" after a rape or similar beacuse so many people feel sorry for them and they recive alot of attention from friends, family and perhaps therapists.

And all this attention and pitty they recive, make them feel good. So they might even think that it was worth it beacuse of the attention that will follow after a rape.

So to push it a bit you might say that there can be some good things that can come out of such a terrible experience for some girls.
i think this theory is more true for younger girls, like 15-23 or something, its different when you are older i guess.

I dont think you can just look away from this theory, to me it sounds plausible....it may not be true in all cases, but still.
 
Jean Leloup
Posts: 2004
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 10:46 am

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:14 pm

Quoting Alphafloor889 (Reply 66):
But there is also a another theroy that some younger girls are not so "unhappy" after a rape or similar beacuse so many people feel sorry for them and they recive alot of attention from friends, family and perhaps therapists.

And all this attention and pitty they recive, make them feel good. So they might even think that it was worth it beacuse of the attention that will follow after a rape.

So to push it a bit you might say that there can be some good things that can come out of such a terrible experience for some girls.
i think this theory is more true for younger girls, like 15-23 or something, its different when you are older i guess.

I dont think you can just look away from this theory, to me it sounds plausible....it may not be true in all cases, but still.

No. I'm sorry, but that's utter BS. I know you mean well, but that is simply not true. I have a hard time believing that this 'theory' is anything more than something you and your buddies dreamed up while complaining about girls. Rape violently and often permanently damages a person's ability to trust and be close to anyone. Whatever 'attention' it gets them is not going to feel 'good'. It's not an 'advantage'.

JL
Jean Leloup - original a.net moderator (2001-2005) and still recovering!
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:18 pm

Quoting Alphafloor889 (Reply 66):
I dont think you can just look away from this theory, to me it sounds plausible....it may not be true in all cases, but still.

My Sig'o is a rape counselor. Believe me, we're looking away from that theory.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
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RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:34 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 40):
I answered it nicely: 9 years for rape is rather long in comparison to what offenders ordinarily receive. It takes into consideration what the judge says, and it is, according to him, a just and reasonable sentence in relation to the crime. Whether you or I disagree with it is irrelevant: he decided it best based on the facts of the case, other considerations (such as mitigating circumstances) and the various other aims of sentencing (bar mere retribution).

Are the "mitigating factors" assigned by the judge a matter of public record, or in the UK system are they not released?

I ask the following question in all seriousness. Is your reluctance to question the appropriateness of the sentence passed down by the judge a trait shared by most of your countrymen? While 9 years might be twice the "normal" sentence for a rape of this nature in the UK, there would be an outcry in the US if a judge were to have so leniently sentenced someone who raped a victim that was unconscious. Moreover, as other posters have indicated, that he evidently chose to rape the girl instead of seeking medical treatment would have resulted in an even more lengthy sentence in most US jurisdictions.

I guess what I'm asking is why is 9 years regarded as an appropriate sentence for such a heinous crime in the UK.

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 53):
And he has been sentenced appropriately.

But why is 9 years appropriate in the UK? Because it is twice the normal sentence? Because the mitigating factors - which may or may not be public record - have placed it appropriately? You keep assuring us that the judge acted correctly. But without a full disclosure of the facts of the case and the factors he considered in finding mitigation, why can't we question the appropriateness of the sentence?

Your consistent response seems to be "you don't know all the facts, so you can't question his decision." I agree that we need all the facts to reach a proper opinion - are they available for us to review them?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
57AZ
Posts: 2371
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:55 pm

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:01 pm

Quoting GulfStreamGirl (Reply 1):
that's unimaginable, may that animal get murdered in jail for his crime, maybe then justice will have prevailed, though I still don't believe that is good enough.



Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 18):
i hope he gets raped every day in prison. that will teach him.



Quoting Malb777 (Reply 27):
al i hope for is that the C###T has a real hard time in prison , and falls down a lot of stairs. and if the gaurds see nothing all the better

The prayers of the wicked availeth nothing. While what the defendant was convicted of is certainly repulsive and heinous, to willfully pray or hope for harm to befall any individual (whether criminal or not) is certainly immoral itself. Prison life might teach him more than we on the outside world would like someone like him to learn. Broadly speaking, unless the individual exhibits a desire to change their lifestyle, all they will learn in prison is how to be a better criminal. I don't know about other states but I do know that in Tennessee, inmates convicted of sex crimes are housed in administrative segregation and not mixed with the general population for security reasons. The reasoning for this is simply that in a corrections facility, any disturbance places the safety of staff and inmates at risk. For the staff to allow something to happen when they can prevent it is unethical and depending on the situation and facts involved possibly illegal.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 64):
Very odd... in the United States this man would have been charged with both rape and murder, not just rape

I agree that he would certainly be charged with rape. Murder might be a stretch depending on the weight of the potential evidence. In Arizona he would more likely get a manslaughter charge in addition to committing a dangerous crime against children, molestation of a child (with specific acts), and criminal endangerment to enhance the sentence.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:08 pm

Quoting Alphafloor889 (Reply 66):
Yeah, you have some good points in that post.

you always hear that the victim get pshycicaly tramatised after a rape.
And sure, that is probably true in some way. But there is also a another theroy that some younger girls are not so "unhappy" after a rape or similar beacuse so many people feel sorry for them and they recive alot of attention from friends, family and perhaps therapists.

And all this attention and pitty they recive, make them feel good. So they might even think that it was worth it beacuse of the attention that will follow after a rape.

So to push it a bit you might say that there can be some good things that can come out of such a terrible experience for some girls.
i think this theory is more true for younger girls, like 15-23 or something, its different when you are older i guess.

I dont think you can just look away from this theory, to me it sounds plausible....it may not be true in all cases, but still.

Alphafloor889, I, as somene else has pointed out, believe that your intentions are good, so I will refrain from flaming you! But please my friend, don't for one seond believe that theory you've heard. IT IS TOTAL RUBBISH. I'm unfortunately close to two women who suffered rape/sexual abuse, and know some others, all happened when they were young (teenagers) and I can assure you rape leaves permanent damage and fear. And by the way, many young victims DO NOT seek help or confide with other and thus suffer alone, so they are not getting the attention this theory refers to.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6885
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:34 pm

Not a good situation, may she rest in peace!!!
 
57AZ
Posts: 2371
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:55 pm

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:41 pm

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 69):
I can assure you rape leaves permanent damage and fear.

It certainly does. I cannot recall the number of unfortunate events that have befallen rape victims. Many of them end up requiring mental health services. Rape can result in the transmission of sexually transmitted disease and in some cases, result in the victim becoming permanently sterile.

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 69):
many young victims DO NOT seek help or confide with other and thus suffer alone, so they are not getting the attention this theory refers to.

When I was in school studying crime statistics, the first fact that we learned is that there is only one unquestionable fact concerning crime statistics-all crimes are underreported and thus the official statistic is a low number compared to the actual rate. If I remember correctly, less than 20% of all sexual crimes are reported to authorities. Unless the victim is willing to come forward, the only way that the crime will be reported is if a party required to report suspicion of a sexual offense (school educators, doctors/medical staff, etc) observes behaviour that causes them to suspect that the person is a victim of such an offense. One reason that many young victims do not report the offense or seek help is that the offender is either related to or close to the victim. The offender often grooms the victim over a period of time before actually committing the offense/offenses, building the victim's trust or destroying their self esteem.

Bottom line-nothing positive has ever come from such terrible acts and never will. All we can do for the victims is prosecute their attackers to the fullest extent of the law and continue to reach out to them. Education concerning sexual offenses and victim's services available is only one step.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
legend500
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:34 am

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 68):
While what the defendant was convicted of is certainly repulsive and heinous, to willfully pray or hope for harm to befall any individual (whether criminal or not) is certainly immoral itself. Prison life might teach him more than we on the outside world would like someone like him to learn.

 checkmark  Well put.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 67):
I guess what I'm asking is why is 9 years regarded as an appropriate sentence for such a heinous crime in the UK.

Considering Britian's violent crime rate in relation to ours, maybe they are onto something. Perhaps a system based on curing the individual instead of blindly pursuing lynch mob vengance is something that should be pursued.

The girl in this case was the victim of a horrible crime, yes. But it has happened, and nothing we can do to the offender would change that fact. It is the job of us, the living, rather, to try to improve society not by ruining other lives (of the offender and his family, which suffers doubly in such a case); but by attempting to cure the ailment, both in the individual and in greater society. One does not cure a physical ill by killing the patient.

Sure, locking up or killing the offender is easier, but it does nothing to solve the problem. Maybe responding to crime in a brave and constructive manner is better than hiding in our houses and locking all the bad men away to be forgotten.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:54 am

Quoting Legend500 (Reply 72):
ing Britian's violent crime rate in relation to ours, maybe they are onto something. Perhaps a system based on curing the individual instead of blindly pursuing lynch mob vengance is something that should be pursued.

So how do your "cure" someone who rapes a helpless young girl who is powerless to defend herself?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
legend500
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:52 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 73):
So how do your "cure" someone who rapes a helpless young girl who is powerless to defend herself?

Good point. Anyone who does something like that is clearly not sane. Hence, the answer is through some combination of psychotherapy, medication, acclimation and good 'ol fashioned observation. Clearly a matter for a good psychologist, but we shouldn't give up on a human being just because helping them would be "too hard".
 
Scotty
Posts: 1846
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 1999 10:51 pm

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:24 pm

The scumbag should have got life.

Yet another example of how drink and drugs is slowly killing the west of Scotland and the courts arent big enough to set examples
 
AR385
Posts: 6936
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:58 pm

"Neglect of providing aid" Is that a crime in the UK? and in how many states in the USA is that a crime?

Quoting Legend500 (Reply 74):
through some combination of psychotherapy, medication, acclimation and good 'ol fashioned observation

I see a quandary here: I do not believe this type of individual can be rehabilitated, even by liberal doses of all the above. But,throwing him to the lynch mob or convicting him with a lynch mob mentality would be to perform an act that would pretty much send a society's law system back hundreds of years. So what do you actually do?

[email protected] has some valid points, I believe though that his position is too academic and not very practical. And this is a practical problem, and will become more so as our societies create more individuals like this one.

I personally believe that 9 years is not enough. But I am no student of the law. At the same time, since I do believe that the rehabilitation of this person is not possible, I am by extension saying that when he is released he will commit a similar crime again. So, do you lock him up for life to prevent a recurrence of the first crime? This is very dangerous territory because we are basing a life sentence on the belief of a future occurence. Can any law system justify this? Is this an ethical line of reasoning?

I thus think that the decision of the judge would have never left anyone happy.

I do however think that calling and wishing for "ugly" things to happen to this guy simply denies the very same moral ground the proponents of this type of actions are standing on, and are actually putting themselves in the same moral league of this individual. Flame for this, if you will.

It's a tough situation that raises more questions than it answers
 
United Airline
Posts: 8971
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RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:25 pm

Only 9 years?????? That animal deserves a lot more than just 9 years.

Asshole.......
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:51 pm

Quoting 9VSPO (Reply 10):
It's a shame he didn't do it in Thailand or one of the Arab countries - he would have got a lot more than 9 years.

It's a shame he did it in the first place... It doesn't matter where he did it or what punishment he WOULD have recieved. IT sickens me to hear about this. She was only 14 and was drunk from Alcohol and Drugs, and then her stepdad goes and rapes her while she DIES!!! I don't care if this was the UK, US, or Iraq... It should NEVER have happened...
Puhdiddle
 
raffik
Posts: 1564
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:50 am

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:51 am

What a shocking story. How people can behave without any sense of morals is beyond me- how anyone could do this to ANYONE, let alone your own daughter is just sickening. He got off too lightly- what's happening to our legal system??
- Alec
 
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AirPacific747
Posts: 9743
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

RE: Man Rapes Stepdaughter As She's Dying

Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting AirEuropeUK733 (Reply 3):
WTF!!!!!!! Sick, sick, sick!


9 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The judge is having a laugh, right??!! 90 years isn't enough!

I'm not usually a violent person, but maybe this man should have an 'accident' whilst serving his time and come out in a wooden box after a slow and lingering death.

well said!! Fully supported by me!! Jail this asshole for life! It wouldn't even be punishment enough!

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