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alberchico
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London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:42 am

short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
777236ER
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London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:48 am

How stupid. Whatever you think of him as a person, he leaves a party pissed and makes a stupid comment to a reporter. The reporter happens to work for a paper that hates Livingstone. The result? Londoners are without a mayor for a month.

Just how, exactly, does this help Londoners, or anyone stuck up enough to get offended over a silly drunk comment?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
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alberchico
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London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:51 am

Has this ever happend in the history of British politics. If Tony Blair had said the same would he have been punished as well ???
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
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ManuCH
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London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:58 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 2):
If Tony Blair had said the same would he have been punished as well ???

When Berlusconi said something similar to Martin Schulz back in 2003 not much happened:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/eu/story/0,7369,989630,00.html

All this is plain stupid and the usual PC BS.
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
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n229nw
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London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 1):
How stupid.

Agreed. He was too hot-headed to apologize when he "should have" but didn't mean it; but I think that kind of honesty is actually a plus in a politician. This whole thing is just silly.

It wasn't the Evening Standard that brought the case, though.
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
thetuna
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London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:46 am

The journalist probably deserved it for being a c**t.
He just ate the big one! Hog!...get away from that thing!! Just get away from it!
 
GDB
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London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:01 am

Aaahhh, poor, poor journo, how his delicate soul must have suffered.

God I hate this sort of thing-all bow to the power of the (unelected) 4th Estate.

Livingstone screwed up all right-he should have punched that vile, pointless hack.

Livingstone-to his credit, will not apologise to that Newspaper group-also publishers of the awful Daily Mail-which did back the Fascists in the 1930's, as Livingstone has said, which was why he made his ill judged remark.
Their real beef is that he would not grovel to that hack then-or later.
 
cfalk
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:13 am

Londoners (and anyone else), should boycott the Evening Standard. Drive them out of business.

Newspapers are supposed to report the news, not become the news. And to cause such a political upheaval just for some percieved PC slight is bloody ridiculous.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
A340600
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:16 am

Another example of the fast becoming silenced society we are starting to live in, sheesh. You can barely acknowledge someone has a tan anymore Wink
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
A319XFW
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 1):
Londoners are without a mayor for a month.

Well they were without him when he was in the celebrity big brother house and it seemed to work ok then Big grin
 
Matt72033
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:21 am

how ridiculous!
more political correctness BS! its about time the world grew up an learnt to take one on the chin!
 
GDB
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:23 am

Er...I think you are mistaking Ken for ex commie, Islamist apologist, neo Oswald Mosely, George Galloway.
Not the same person by a long shot.
 
gkirk
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:20 am

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 9):

Well they were without him when he was in the celebrity big brother house and it seemed to work ok then Big grin



Quoting GDB (Reply 11):
Er...I think you are mistaking Ken for ex commie, Islamist apologist, neo Oswald Mosely, George Galloway.
Not the same person by a long shot.

Indeed, a Scottish disgrace, so we shipped him down to you lot who voted him in with warm arms Big grin
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
GDB
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:46 am

Well, GKirk, lets just say that a small bunch of bitter ex Trots, and a much larger number of those in East London, with no sense of loyalty to this country, voted for Galloway-egged on by much 'nudge, nudge, wink, wink' anti-semitism by 'Respect'.
Hence my comparing him to 30's Fascist Moseley.

Ken will likely appeal, against this unelected quango who have overridden the choice of Londoners in both 2000 and 2004.
 
jafa39
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:20 am

Any man who keeps Newts is OK in my book, Go Ken! Give them hell!
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
cedarjet
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:28 am

I am disgusted that we're without a mayor for a month. What he said to that idiot from the Standard is spot on, the right wing press in the UK print some truly awful hate-filled rubbish and cowards like Blair just play along, even when his own wife is in the firing line.

There's serious work to be done with the Olympics and running this giant city. According to Wikipedia.com, London is in the "Alpha Range" of world cities, the top rank (along with NY, Tokyo, Paris). We need a decent guy at the wheel of this behemoth, so can we please stop fucking around and put Ken back in the hot seat where he belongs, and where we need him?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
kaddyuk
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:53 am

Four weeks on full pay...? Its just giving him a Holiday!  Wink
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
dl021
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:24 pm

I say they should just go to a gym and settle this like men. The journalist had a right to be offended, and as far as I'm concerned Livingstone (the commie bastard) had the right to offend him.

I think they should just fight it out and be done with it. Legal action is a bad idea.

Of course, this is a country where freedom of speech is not enshrined and people are not allowed to offend anyone (remember the piggy banks?).
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
GDB
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:10 pm

I would never have called Ken a 'Commie', he was generally aligned with the Labour left in the 80's, but importantly, he was never in their 'bloc' when an MP.
Or anyone else in Westminster, he was a lone figure there.
He is, always has been, a maverick.
In the late 80's, while the MP for Brent East, in N.London, he called the truly awful local council, with their middle class 'revolutionary' BS, the municipal version of Pol Pot's regime.
 
A319XFW
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:47 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 11):
Er...I think you are mistaking Ken for ex commie, Islamist apologist, neo Oswald Mosely, George Galloway.
Not the same person by a long shot.

Oh yes, so I am. But all politicians seem to blend into each other nowadays and I was at least right about the area! But wasn't Ken called "Red Ken" once?
 
vc10
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:54 pm

GDB, Your postings are normally very well founded but I can see that if the Daily Mail is in any way concerned the red mist comes down  Smile

To my way of thinking it was a shame the man was not banned for good as if some one else had made that statement or something similar our Ken would be the first with the knife. I will stop now to allow the red mist to clear

little vc10
 
whitehatter
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:49 pm

Ken should have decked the reptile in the same way John Prescott belted that loser in Wales.

In fact, I can't see what offence his comments caused. That hack was behaving EXACTLY as Ken alleged he was, just like a Nazi Death Camp guard.

So his being Jewish is supposed to excuse his behaviour? Give me a non-PC break. Those hacks are out to hound Ken from office day after day, and the allegation he made was valid. In fact it was the hack who decided to stir it up as part of the campaign they have to hound an elected official from office as he doesn't fly their right-wing flag.

It's telling also that other Jews have come to Ken's defence, including his Jewish deputy mayor. One hack decides there is mileage in playing the sensitive flower and it all gets blown up in the papers just as they want it to.

Ken's comments were valid. Those hacks do act like Nazi death camp guards, wailing that "they just do it for the money and are just taking orders" to justify their vile behaviour and stalking.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
dl021
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:44 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 18):
I would never have called Ken a 'Commie', he was generally aligned with the Labour left in the 80's, but importantly, he was never in their 'bloc' when an MP.

I probably should have used the  Wink symbol because I was sort of kidding. Livingstone was not a communist....he is a socialist (or at least was before).

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 19):
But wasn't Ken called "Red Ken" once?

Yes, and with reason.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 21):
That hack was behaving EXACTLY as Ken alleged he was, just like a Nazi Death Camp guard.

No. A death camp guard used deadly weapons to force people into gas chambers then loaded them into ovens. The journalists (if we use that term for some of the print piranha) are not using deadly force to coerce anyone. They are acting as societal bottomfeeders in many cases, but not death camp guards. Please understand that difference, and that to misuse that term lessens the historical impact of the vile pieces of human detritus that guarded and ran those death camps suborning their own consciences in order to take home a mark or two. There's a difference.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 21):
Ken's comments were valid. Those hacks do act like Nazi death camp guards, wailing that "they just do it for the money and are just taking orders" to justify their vile behaviour and stalking.

Two types of behaviour. One is words, the other is action with deadly intent and results. Genocide should not ever be compared to lesser forms of harm, else it reduces the meaning to people today who fail to understand the true meaning of the Holocaust, or other pogroms/acts of genocide (Armenians/Bosnian/etc).
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Klaus
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:46 am

I know very little about the incident in question and its background, but even the slimiest of press campaigns (which part of the british press appear so fond of) is incomparable to a "nazi death camp". That's an entirely different level.

Whether the suspension was actually justified I have my doubts. But the remark was simply idiotic and misplaced in any case - even if he should have had good reason to be offended by the press.
 
whitehatter
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Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:59 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 22):

No. A death camp guard used deadly weapons to force people into gas chambers then loaded them into ovens. The journalists (if we use that term for some of the print piranha) are not using deadly force to coerce anyone. They are acting as societal bottomfeeders in many cases, but not death camp guards. Please understand that difference, and that to misuse that term lessens the historical impact of the vile pieces of human detritus that guarded and ran those death camps suborning their own consciences in order to take home a mark or two. There's a difference.

Context is everything.

Ken compared the hack to a Nazi Death Camp guard, where they ran the defence that they just did the job for money and were only taking orders. Basically someone who did a loathsome job but used the 'only taking orders' line to excuse it.

And that was the basis of his comment. Hacks use a mentality which is no better than those Death Camp guards. He's right too.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
dl021
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:15 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 24):
Hacks use a mentality which is no better than those Death Camp guards. He's right too.

I'll have to disagree with you on this one.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:38 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 25):
I'll have to disagree with you on this one.

Explain to me what is wrong with this statement.

"Press hacks hound and harrass individuals, on many occasions going to truly vile extremes to get their stories. They justify this behaviour by saying that they are only doing what they are supposed to be doing, or are just doing the job for the money.

That is exactly the same defence used by Nazi death camp guards, who claimed that they were only following orders or doing it for the money"
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Nordair
Posts: 1080
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:36 am

RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 2):
Has this ever happend in the history of British politics. If Tony Blair had said the same would he have been punished as well ???

I think that would all depend upon whether or not he supports a ban on abortions in South Dakota.
"It is never legitimate to use the words of scripture to promote a loveless agenda." - Right Rev. Dr. Peter Short
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:04 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 26):
"Press hacks hound and harrass individuals, on many occasions going to truly vile extremes to get their stories. They justify this behaviour by saying that they are only doing what they are supposed to be doing, or are just doing the job for the money.

My point is that the press hacks are not taking innocents from boxcars to "work" camps ("Arbeit Macht Frei") and forcing them at bayonet point to strip, remove all valuables and enter "de-lousing stations" where rat poison comes from showerheads and kills them, then forcing more prisoners to carry the dead to a collection point where all the gold from their teeth and anything they've hidden can be removed before loading their corpses into ovens.

Now, if you can find out some press hacks who've done that then I've no personal objection to Livingstones use of language there.

Remember, I don't think that Livingstones freedom of speech should be abrogated (even though I don't think the the UK recognizes it as the US does...according to some here and in Canada which also uses common law) but I do believe he was offensive and his use of that comparison was incorrect for the reasons I gave. It's like calling someone you don't like a Nazi....it takes away from the real evil of the word and reduces it's meaning...therefore the historical lesson....of that word for generations to come and they forget...which allows history to sometimes be repeated because people don't realize what really happened before.

I know I'm getting sort of deep here, but I really feel this way. I don't have any more respect for tabloid journalists than you seem to......I think most of them are scum of the earth who make their money on the unhappiness of others and feed the desire of the masses to see the elite fall. It's misery deserved on both ends there. Death camp guards, however, enabled...nay, ran camps where genocide occured and there is not a real comparison between the two. I can draw the meaning of the accusation "Yeah, your'e just following orders, eh?" but I disagree with the use of death camps as an equal comparison.. It appeared that Livingstone was comparing his predicament with that of people being sent to their deaths in a planned genocide. I'm sorry, but it wasn't. He was taking shit from some hack....and he sought out his job knowing that the Fleet street hacks would be doing this. He either should have smacked the guy or insulted him without taking on the mantle of martyrdom. I don't think Livingstone had the moral right to compare his predicament to anyone elses (including family members of mine who to my knowledge never accused anyone of being a death camp guard simply for being rude and asinine) throughout history who suffered from such horror and evil.

That's why I choose to respectfully disagree with you.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
GDB
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:06 am

Context is everything, Ken had been harrassed by hacks, from a certain vile paper (quite right VC10-the red mist DOES come down, I hate them with a passion), for months and months.
About his job, policies, as Mayor? No.
Just a pointless, curtain twitching, petty campaign to upset him, to get a reaction.

Livingstone was called 'Red Ken' by The Sun-must be true then!
As stated, he's a left leaning maverick.
He has always held very strong opinions on the complicity of some with the rise of Fascism.
He is steeped in London and it's history-which will include the Fascists being run out of East London's Jewish community in the Battle Of Cable Street in 1936.

Ken also bends over backwards to, as he sees it, to give those without a voice, or not much of one, a chance to speak.
Sometimes he overdoes it, but it's well intentioned.

London voted resoundingly for Ken, knowning his ways, his verbal shooting from the hip, it's both accepted and often admired.
Including his wish to see the Islamist thugs running Saudi to be 'strung up'.

A party hack, political robot, he aint.
And he's light years away from the ultra cynical, nasty, George Galloway.
 
Klaus
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:10 am

I must fully agree with DL021 here.

Overexaggerating ones slight discomfort by comparing it with the plight of victims of mass murder is wrong and highly distasteful.

Less would have been more in this case.
 
Klaus
Posts: 21642
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:14 am

I can see your points, GDB, and as I've said I'm not sure if his "punishment" makes any sense, but he could have been much more effective with his protests had he chosen a more fitting insult instead.
 
GDB
Posts: 14259
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:21 am

Maybe he should have been censured, but this OTT punishment has made many side with Ken, who had been severe critics.
Also, he had been at a party, had a few drinks.
He is a hard working mayor, who like everyone, deserves time off, yet for a long time everytime he was relaxing, he was harrassed by you know who.
Same newspaper, often the same 'reporter'.
If you hear the tape, Ken's voice suggests sarcasm mixed with anger.
 
PIA777
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:39 am

RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:44 am

So much for freedom of speech. We can make stupid cartoons dipicting
the most important figure in Islam but we cannot say anything regarding the holocust or Nazis. One person has been suspended from his job and another jailed this past week for making stupid comments regarding Nazis and the holocust. Do we here at a.net still believe in freedom of speech?

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
Klaus
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RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:36 am

You are aware that this sensitivity is not for the protection of nazis but due to the affront to their victims, right?
 
GDB
Posts: 14259
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:57 am

Yeah PIA777, Londoners are right now burning effigies, demanding executions, killing people etc.
Get real-Ken was punished as he was not a private citizen, rather an elected mayor, even if his punishment was excessive.

And David Irving broke laws, that while outdated, were the results of Austria and Germany's role in WW2, which he was well aware of.

So don't confuse this with a large number of violent, ignorant, manipulated savages, acting on it seems much more offensive versions of the actual Danish cartoons, (the 'Danish' Islamofacist clerics circulated really nasty, photoshopped versions of the cartoons, to whip up trouble after the original cartoons had passed with only minimal comment in Sept/Oct 2005).
 
PIA777
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:39 am

RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:40 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 35):
So don't confuse this with a large number of violent, ignorant, manipulated savages, acting on it seems much more offensive versions of the actual Danish cartoons, (the 'Danish' Islamofacist clerics circulated really nasty, photoshopped versions of the cartoons, to whip up trouble after the original cartoons had passed with only minimal comment in Sept/Oct 2005).

BULLSHIT!!!! How are you suppose to teach muslims about freedom of speech
when this stuff is going on in Europe. What a load of crap!!!

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting PIA777 (Reply 36):
BULLSHIT!!!! How are you suppose to teach muslims about freedom of speech
when this stuff is going on in Europe. What a load of crap!!!

well, even though I disagree with the act of censure in this case (while strongly disagreeing with Livingstones statement to the point of angry offense) I'll say that it's alot more civilized than the reaction throughout the muslim world. I'll also point out that they aren't burning the British Embassy in Tel Aviv, either.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:44 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 31):
but he could have been much more effective with his protests had he chosen a more fitting insult instead

Certainly. But in the same way that insulting someone in that manner in Germany would be deeply offensive, in Britain it would generally be viewed as much less so. In the same way that your history colours the intensity of any insult, so does ours. Comparing someone here to a concentration camp guard, whilst rather insensitive, doesn't really justify the holier-than-thou response from the "E'en Stannah", as it's known.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26726
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: London Mayor Suspended From Duties

Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:56 pm

Quote:
The London Jewish Forum welcomed the ruling, with chairman Adrian Cohen calling for the mayor to create a strategy to ensure London's Jews would be treated with respect.

And Danish Moslems shouldn't be?
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