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alberchico
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Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:27 am

Considering that the USA/CIA have a long history of overthrowing '' regimes that are hostile to U.S. interests'', should Chavez be afraid ??? Look what happend to Chile when its goverment got too socialist ??? Woud the CIA consider funding a secret revolution or is all that murky stuff in the past ???



oh and please lets not turn this into a U.S basing thread  Smile
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Falcon84
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:30 am

No. He was, for better or worse, democratically elected. You deal with him. We tried that a few years back, which was a mistake.

He's the elected leader. Let him run his course.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:30 am

Simple answer, no. Venezuela voted him in, let Venezuela vote him out, if they so choose.







Meanwhile we'd appreciate it if Citgo kept up their shipments to us.
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MD11junkie
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:31 am

No.

That'd be against the values the US defends. Like it or not, Chavez was elected by its people --- Venezuelans, unfortunately will just have to deal with it.

BTW, this thread is going to SOON turn in to flamebait.

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alberchico
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:32 am

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 3):
That'd be against the values the US defends. Like it or not, Chavez was elected by its people --- Venezuelans, unfortunately will just have to deal with it.

What about all those allegations of fraud in the recall election ?
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whitehatter
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:34 am

Any move against Chavez would be the biggest propaganda victory Al Qaeda could hope for.

The US would be branded as hypocrites who are not spreading democracy, but instead installing puppet regimes which are favourable to them. Game set and match to Al Zarqawi.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:34 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 4):
What about all those allegations of fraud in the recall election ?

We could always get the U.N. involved.  stirthepot 
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MD11junkie
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:35 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 4):
What about all those allegations of fraud in the recall election ?

They were proved to be without foundation by a group of International Election watchers, that the OAS and the EU sent to Venezuela.

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Arrow
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:41 am

Why do we get these kinds of questions? Overthrown by whom? Nobody outside Venezuela likes Chavez. So what? Very few outside the US like Bush -- but he's the choice of the American people. Democracy in action. Give it a rest.
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alberchico
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:43 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 5):
The US would be branded as hypocrites who are not spreading democracy, but instead installing puppet regimes which are favourable to them. Game set and match to Al Zarqawi.

Better to be feared than to be loved....

try reading Machiavelli sometime
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MD11junkie
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting Arrow (Reply 8):
Democracy in action. Give it a rest.

 checkmark 

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 5):
Any move against Chavez would be the biggest propaganda victory Al Qaeda could hope for.

The US would be branded as hypocrites who are not spreading democracy, but instead installing puppet regimes which are favourable to them. Game set and match to Al Zarqawi.

Exactly. The US would be putting themselves into a worse situation than they are now, even though Venezuelans are not as extremists as muslim's in Iraq, they are not under a dictatorship though Chavez might seem dogmatic. He was elected. Certainly, if you thought that the vision of the US had hit a low level, just imagine how low could it get, if they overthrew a democratically elected government. . .

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alberchico
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 10):
even though Venezuelans are not as extremists as muslim's in Iraq, they are not under a dictatorship though Chavez might seem dogmatic.

Neither was Panama, Chile, Nicaragua or Grenada, but we hit those places hard.
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MD11junkie
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:53 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 9):
Better to be feared than to be loved....

try reading Machiavelli sometime

huh? Did you read what you just posted?

So, you are saying that in order for the US to be feared, they should attack and overthrow the Venezuelan democratically elected government? What can Venezuela do to harm the US? Stop selling Oil? Big deal, it's an international market, you can sell to whomever you want. And the US can buy it from someone else.

AFAIK, there's no nuclear programs in Venezuela. . . other than the nuclear plant being built by Argentina. . . as paid by the Venezuelan government, they are not threatening any minorities, like Kurds or Shiites or Sunnis. So, basically -- there's no justification for invading Venezuela.

BTW, it's Machiavello  Smile

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alberchico
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 12):
huh? Did you read what you just posted?

So, you are saying that in order for the US to be feared, they should attack and overthrow the Venezuelan democratically elected government? What can Venezuela do to harm the US? Stop selling Oil? Big deal, it's an international market, you can sell to whomever you want. And the US can buy it from someone else.

If you take a look at the history of U.S CIA operations in South America in the last 50 years you will see that anything is possible....
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MD11junkie
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 11):
Neither was Panama, Chile, Nicaragua or Grenada, but we hit those places hard.

Eh --- hello? Sandinistas and Contras? Two different eras. You are talking about Cold War conflicts. All of those countries were to make Capitalism prevail over Communism.

And Grenada, because of the hostages --- as well as Lebanon.

And, WTF -- Chile? Where on earth did you get that?!

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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:56 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 13):
If you take a look at the history of U.S CIA operations in South America in the last 50 years you will see that anything is possible....

So you are saying, that Classified documents are publically available?
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BMIFlyer
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:58 am

I agree that he should be voted out.

As mentioned elsewhere, he has been bribing voters to keep him in office, so is he worried about something? Being finally kicked out maybe (we hope)



Lee
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alberchico
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 15):
So you are saying, that Classified documents are publically available?

Please say that you are kidding !!!

Its open public knowledge. Christ even textbooks in the U.S mention that stuff.
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usnseallt82
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:59 am

Quoting Alberchico (Thread starter):
Considering that the USA/CIA have a long history of overthrowing '' regimes that are hostile to U.S. interests'', should Chavez be afraid ???

Maybe you should read some more history then.







The U.S. won't touch him. Simple as that. It'll either be from his own people, or some other nation who feels threatened by him. But it sure as hell won't be from us.
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MD11junkie
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 17):
Please say that you are kidding !!!

Really, what source do you base this on?

Is there any word, apology from the American government for doing this? I don't think so. . . It may very well be of Public knowledge, but public knowledge is oftenly wrong.

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alberchico
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 19):
Is there any word, apology from the American government for doing this? I don't think so. . . It may very well be of Public knowledge, but public knowledge is oftenly wrong.

And has the Argentine ever acknowleged that it has no claim whatsoever to the Falklands? Of course not ,they also keep claiming lies while the rest of the world knows that the islands only belong to the British.....


Goverments lie. do not take their word for granted.....
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usnseallt82
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:15 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 20):
Goverments lie.

No, humans lie. Governments are made of humans. You, from what I can tell, are a human too.

Tell your mothership to send better arguments next time.
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MD11junkie
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:16 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 20):
And has the Argentine ever acknowleged that it has no claim whatsoever to the Falklands? Of course not ,they also keep claiming lies while the rest of the world knows that the islands only belong to the British.....

And what this has to do? There's written claims about the Falklands, buddy. It has nothing to do with this point. You are comparing, Apples and Oranges.

So, you're just assuming, because people think? Okay, I'll take that for granted. If so, explain to me what happened in Chile.

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AeroWesty
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:16 am

You know, the thread-starter has never said whether he supports overthrowing Chavez or not, and for what reasons if in the affirmative.
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usnseallt82
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 23):
You know, the thread-starter has never said whether he supports overthrowing Chavez or not, and for what reasons if in the affirmative.

Another parade passing by?  Big grin
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yowza
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:19 am

I think Dubya has enough of his toys deployed in the sand right now. It would look very bad if any move to topple Chavez could be traced back to the US especially given Venezuela's oil wealth. IT would just be the last straw for many people I think.

YOWza
 
rootsair
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:20 am

He was democratically elected...and would be so as of today!

Just because he's got the guts to tell americans what millions and millions of Latinos think about him !
USA cannot admit they've got defects...especially coming from A Latino leader coming from the so called by US "inferior country"

Just because Chavez is a socialist? No !

Look what they did in Chile...they helped overthrow allende and look who came

Pinoshit....oops sorry Pinochet... who had a severe dictature with severe oppression !

If ever Chavez was overthrown(as aslready attempted), the next leaders would be Pterol millionaires who'll keep all for the rich and increase the cleavage between the rich and the poor!

Never take away Chavez...leave things as they are !
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AeroWesty
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:31 am

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 26):
Just because he's got the guts to tell americans what millions and millions of Latinos think about him !

Whoa there, pardner. What Latinos think about Bush or what Latinos think about Americans?
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GDB
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:32 am

Given what what the results were of the USA's long, rather shameful history of installing murderous thugs in the region for economic reasons, (this went on well before the Cold War), leave well alone.

As many of these regimes were in bed with the narco gangs, the results were seen on American streets.
They had a hold due in part due to the grinding poverty, maintained by US friendly regimes, want an out of your situation? Do some smuggling, or some coca production, or join our little private army looking after our enterprise.

It always grates being lectured on our Imperialist past, from the land of the Munroe Doctrine.

International observers gave the elections a pass, were they perfect? Probably not, but compare to 'elections' in previous decades across the region.

Is this nation a real threat in the region? Doubtful.
 
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fxramper
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:34 am

Assasinate him!

Signed.

Rev. Jerry Falwell.

PS. If I ever take up the habit of signing a post with someone elses name, like so many of you do on this site...suggest my account for deletion.  Smile
 
rootsair
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:12 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 27):

Whoa there, pardner. What Latinos think about Bush or what Latinos think about Americans?

sorry I should have precised...what latinos think about the US policy...and
we could blame the more than Half americans who voted for GW Bush !
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Derico
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:48 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 28):
It always grates being lectured on our Imperialist past, from the land of the Munroe Doctrine.

To be fair, the United States never used the Monroe Doctrine, simply because it didn't have the military power to do so.
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whitehatter
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:04 am

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 9):

Better to be feared than to be loved....

try reading Machiavelli sometime

I really think you need to get therapy. If you think that's the way to run foreign policy then you have got serious problems.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
satx
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:07 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 5):
The US would be branded as hypocrites who are not spreading democracy, but instead installing puppet regimes which are favourable to them.

We are already branded as such, as well we should be. Eventually, we may earn a better branding, but not with the folks in charge at the moment.

Quoting Arrow (Reply 8):
Nobody outside Venezuela likes Chavez.

That doesn't seem to ring true. I've even read about Americans who are happy to get his heating oil on the cheap when they couldn't easily afford it on their own. I would imagine they are at least indifferent if not truly appreciative of such help. Too bad some folks in the US government are apparently trying to stall the program without replacing it with a US-based initiative. Even if Chavez was playing political games, at least some poor folks were actually benefiting in the process. Once we're done ending his assistance with red tape, trumped-up charges, and endless bureaucracy, who will benefit then?


Quoting Alberchico (Reply 11):
Neither was Panama, Chile, Nicaragua or Grenada, but we hit those places hard.

We could. We did. We still can.


Quoting Alberchico (Reply 13):
If you take a look at the history of U.S CIA operations in South America in the last 50 years you will see that anything is possible....

 checkmark  100%

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 18):

The U.S. won't touch him. Simple as that. It'll either be from his own people, or some other nation who feels threatened by him.

So, if the US merely supports, subsidizes, and/or directs those who distrust Chavez then it's not the US who's taking action then? Is that your position?

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 18):
But it sure as hell won't be from us.

Because...?

Quoting YOWza (Reply 25):
I think Dubya has enough of his toys deployed in the sand right now. It would look very bad if any move to topple Chavez could be traced back to the US especially given Venezuela's oil wealth. IT would just be the last straw for many people I think.

Last straw? The line has already long since been drawn. Those who still support Bush today will support him no matter what he does. He will always have a blank check from his current supporters in the one country that could have voted him out.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:10 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 28):
It always grates being lectured on our Imperialist past, from the land of the Munroe Doctrine.



Quoting Derico (Reply 31):
To be fair, the United States never used the Monroe Doctrine, simply because it didn't have the military power to do so.

You guys need a simple history lesson.

The Monroe Doctrine:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/jd/16321.htm

"By the mid-1800s, Monroe's declaration, combined with ideas of Manifest Destiny, provided precedent and support for U.S. expansion on the American continent. In the late 1800s, U.S. economic and military power enabled it to enforce the Monroe Doctrine. The doctrine's greatest extension came with Theodore Roosevelt's Corollary, which inverted the original meaning of the doctrine and came to justify unilateral U.S. broadened in Latin America."

The Roosevelt Corollary:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/gp/17660.htm

"As the corollary worked out in practice, the United States increasingly used military force to restore internal stability to nations in the region. Roosevelt declared that the United States might "exercise international police power in 'flagrant cases of such wrongdoing or impotence.'" Over the long term the corollary had little to do with relations between the Western Hemisphere and Europe, but it did serve as justification for U.S. intervention in Cuba, Nicaragua, Haiti, and the Dominican Republic."
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Derico
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 33):
We could. We did. We still can.

Nah, Chile is a consolidated full fledged democracy. The United States tries anything funny there and it would be exposed virtually immediately, if anyone in Chile even takes such an offer to begin with.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 34):
You guys need a simple history lesson.

Haiti, Nicaragua, the Dominican Republic... Yes, major Western hemisphere powers!

The US never used the Monroe Doctrine outside tiny island nations as it never had the power to enforce it. You can quote me all the American history high school texbook pipe-dream dogma available, if it makes Americans feel better about themselves, sure go ahead.

The US has done many many accomplishments as a country, I have always founded bizzarre, unbelievable, and quite frankly disturbing that Americans also feel the need to 'make up' some more.

If you Americans believe in this, then please tell me where were you guys when France took over Mexico...  Wink
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usnseallt82
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:20 am

Quoting SATX (Reply 33):
So, if the US merely supports, subsidizes, and/or directs those who distrust Chavez then it's not the US who's taking action then? Is that your position?

We're not doing anything..........either covertly or in the open. What exactly is your position, dare I ask?

Quoting SATX (Reply 33):
Because...?

Why would we?
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legend500
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 35):

The US never used the Monroe Doctrine outside tiny island nations as it never had the power to enforce it. You can quote me all the American history high school texbook pipe-dream dogma available, if it makes Americans feel better about themselves, sure go ahead.

1. You're not speaking proper European Spanish.

2. You're not speaking the Queen's English.

3. You're not speaking German.

So....South America can thank us anytime.

Quoting Derico (Reply 35):
If you Americans believe in this, then please tell me where were you guys when France took over Mexico...

1. The Monroe Doctrine didn't exist yet.

2. My country was attempting to fend off Yankee imperialism in North America.

...and back on topic....

I don't know. Ask a Venezuelan.

[Edited 2006-02-25 21:26:40]
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 35):
Haiti, Nicaragua, the Dominican Republic... Yes, major Western hemisphere powers!

The US never used the Monroe Doctrine outside tiny island nations as it never had the power to enforce it. You can quote me all the American history high school texbook pipe-dream dogma available, if it makes Americans feel better about themselves, sure go ahead.

First off, you were referring to the wrong foreign policy, but it's clear that you didn't understand the correction giving the reference for the one you actually wanted. Tsk, tsk.

Secondly, we weren't discussing the size of the nations where U.S. foreign policy was exerted militarily in the western hemisphere, your statement simply said that the U.S. was powerless to enforce it.

There was no "feel good" muscle-flexing going on, it was an exercise in education, that sadly, you failed.
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MD11junkie
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting Legend500 (Reply 37):
1. You're not speaking proper European Spanish.

2. You're not speaking the Queen's English.

Uhm... could you please specify what are you talking about? We do speak PROPER European Spanish, in fact, we speak castillian, not Spanish.

Cheers! wave 
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mrmeangenes
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:11 am

Hey : Why should the USA interfere with Sr. Chavez ?

Is he not bringing the benefits of socialism to his people ?

http://mrmeangenesnews.blogspot.com/...vez-brings-socialist-benefits.html
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GDB
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:12 am

To be fair to the US, I think many lessons have been learned.

The narco factor, the end of the Cold War DID help, but installing/supporting nasty regimes had that 'blowback' factor.
Look at Panama in 1989, old 'Pineapple Face' used to be seen as a friendly, a bit erractic maybe, but look what he turned into.

Support for the truly vile 'Contras' (specialisation; killing innocent people, rape, plunder, a bit of narco work), really stained the US image abroad, even before Iran-Contra broke.

Latin nations will, sometimes, perhaps often, elect governments not so well disposed to the US, but remember the lesson of Castro-he was a leftist, but initially wanted co-operation with the US, their hostile rebuff sent him right into Moscow's arms.
Now of course, the folly and sheer spite of current US policy on Cuba, just for some FLA votes, is a legacy that could and should change, it really makes the US look bad, in the region and beyond.
And for what?
 
Derico
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:12 am

Quoting Legend500 (Reply 37):
1. You're not speaking proper European Spanish.

2. You're not speaking the Queen's English.

3. You're not speaking German.

So....South America can thank us anytime.

The really funny thing is he actually believes this, MD11... hahahaha!

Well, let me go buy the new revised history books that tell of the sacrifice of the North American soldiers on the battlefields of San Lorenzo, Maipu, Ayacucho against the Spanish...

Oh wait,

And on the streets of Buenos Aires during the British Invasions.

Oh wait,

And of all the supplies and the like that were sent our way for the liberation of Chile, Peru, etc.

Oh wait,

And how about the glorious battle were the USA kicked the Portuguese out of Uruguay??

Oh wait...

Legend, I'm hoping you were not serious when you said this... but I'm afraid of the response you will give.

North America needs to thank us for kicking out the European forces out of this hemisphere.

 Wink

[Edited 2006-02-26 02:14:36]
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Derico
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RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:34 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 38):
Secondly, we weren't discussing the size of the nations where U.S. foreign policy was exerted militarily in the western hemisphere, your statement simply said that the U.S. was powerless to enforce it.

It did not enforce it in it's neighboring state Mexico, in what was by far the most flagrant 'involvement' that supposedly this policy was intended to avoid.

So you tell me, then, if the US was powerless with an invasion next door, then what?

Could the US enforce this today? Possibly, not not certain. But certainly this idea that the USA could have done anything if Britain or Spain launched full fledged invasions of countries is silly. Again, the US could not stop France from seating Maximilian to the 'throne' of Mexico, and the US could not stop the burning of it's own capital...

On the other hand Argentina has never been succesfully invaded ever since independence, and as it's well known went heavily into debt, almost banckrupcy, to wage war against European colonialism in South America. And virtually no help from any other country, unlike the US which got help from France and Spain, we got none.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
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alberchico
Topic Author
Posts: 3302
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:52 am

RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:31 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 29):
Assasinate him!

Signed.

Rev. Jerry Falwell.

actually it was that crazy idiot Pat Robertson

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 32):
Quoting Alberchico (Reply 9):

Better to be feared than to be loved....

try reading Machiavelli sometime

I really think you need to get therapy. If you think that's the way to run foreign policy then you have got serious problems.

for what telling the truth that politics is cold and heartless and riddled with hiprocosy. Now I am not slamming anybodys goverment, I am just saying that politics is a lot more dirtier in real life.....
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
lh477
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:23 am

RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:50 pm

Even a perception of actions against Chavez will only help Chavez. Last attempt by the American supported oppostion only helped consolidate power for him. He is probarbly hoping for some sort actions by Americans (direct or indirect). Let the citizens of Venezuela decide.

Anyways, I doubt anyone in the administration is even giving serious thought to Chavez. They have other more serious issues to deal with ( Iraq, Iran, Syria). Chavez to them is nothing than an annoyance. Just like Castro.
Come on you gunners......!!!!!
 
MIAspotter
Posts: 2939
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 1:57 pm

RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:15 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 26):
Just because he's got the guts to tell americans what millions and millions of Latinos think about him !
USA cannot admit they've got defects...especially coming from A Latino leader coming from the so called by US "inferior country"

So just because "he" got the balls to tell the USA what "supposedly" millions of latinos think about the US makes him cool? or the ideal president?

I wonder if the Costa Rican President also has the balls to say what he thinks of the USA?

It is very easy to say that when you are not living in Venezuela and obviously have no f**ing idea of what's going on there.

I will suggest you to go and live in Venezuela now to see how things really are down there, A country governed by morons with no idea of what they are doing, 80% of the population living in poverty, high rates of violence and crime! ohh what a lovely place! thanks Hugo!

and like you say if millions and millions of latinos apparently don't like the USA and its policies, then... why do they keep going over there?

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 26):
If ever Chavez was overthrown(as aslready attempted), the next leaders would be Pterol millionaires who'll keep all for the rich and increase the cleavage between the rich and the poor!

Chavez is already doing that! even worse than with the past governments in the country, back then at least we could live, yes there was corruption and all that but at least we had an estable democracy and we could "live" but since Chavez has come to power the whole economy and the country in general has gone down the pooper.

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 26):
Never take away Chavez...leave things as they are !

 sarcastic  Geez...

MIAspotter.

P.S. before you say anything... YES I am Venezuelan.
Nos vamos de Vueling?
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:20 pm

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 11):
Neither was Panama, Chile, Nicaragua or Grenada, but we hit those places hard.

Cold War politics. You can't really compare the two.

No, I think Chavez should be left alone. My only wish is that oil prices take a good fall so that his economic "policies" are revealed as the failures they really are.

Look at the fist couple of years Chavez was in power. The poverty rate was increasing dramatically and the whole economy was going into the toilet. What saved his ass was the HUGE increase in profitability of oil exports, and he could use that money to pay for programs to buy votes. Take that money away, and Venezuela will collapse.

The way to reduce oil prices is to reduce demand and/or increase supply. If the US wants to get rid of Chavez in a legitimate manner, declare the Alaskan oil fields open for drilling, and then anounce that all new cars sold in the US from 2007 onwards will be hybrid diesels getting no less than 40 miles per gallon. Voila - oil will be back to $20 per barrel. Chavez will be run out on a barrel, and the Saudi royal family will flee to London and Geneva.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
pilotsmoe
Posts: 243
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 5:21 am

RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:28 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1):
No. He was, for better or worse, democratically elected. You deal with him. We tried that a few years back, which was a mistake.

He's the elected leader. Let him run his course.

yup, just like Bush  Silly
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Should Chavez Be Overthrown?

Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:09 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 1):
No. He was, for better or worse, democratically elected. You deal with him. We tried that a few years back, which was a mistake.

He's the elected leader. Let him run his course.

Agree. If he is successful and improves VZ, so much the better. If he fails, he needs to fail on his own.

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 4):
What about all those allegations of fraud in the recall election ?

No country has perfectly fair elections. Fraud and vote irregularities happen everywhere. Even in the US, where Kennedy probably wouldn't have been elected in 1960 had the dead not been allowed to vote in Illinois.


Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 5):
The US would be branded as hypocrites who are not spreading democracy, but instead installing puppet regimes which are favourable to them. Game set and match to Al Zarqawi.

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"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography

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